I think Rafa peak level is better than Djokovic on grass.
- Thread starter mistik
- Start date
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Sorry , don’t think so
Djokovic became a better grass player in 2015 version and of course this year he played well. He still plays grass like hard court . The service improvement that came because of Becker is the difference
N01E
Hall of Fame
*on tour
Mr Feeny
Hall of Fame
Yeah, i see it the same way. He was a legitimately great all time Grass court player by 2015. He outplayed Federer (and it wasn't just a matter of grinding and outlasting him. Novak was moving as well on grass as I've ever seen him.)
Who do you think wins? Nadal in 2008/2010 or Djokovic from 2014-2015?
Raining hopes
Hall of Fame
Djokovic by a hair as match ups matter.
Nadal of 07,08,10 by a hair in terms of overall peak level.
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Djokovic 9/01/2016 beat any version of anyone on any surface.
abmk
Bionic Poster
2007QF-F, 2008, 2010 QF-F, moved better, hit his FH better, returned better., hit less UEs (esp. on crucial points).
Djokodalerer31
Hall of Fame
Belief system...its so so very flawed...I truly believe that the entire world governments are taken over by the skrulls fictional alien race (marvel comics) and that the Earth is donut shaped banana, that is suspended in the air of some nerdy kid's gigantic bedroom with a tiny thread...you can't prove i am wrong!
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tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Nadal of 2007-08 played phenomenal. The 'Strokes of genius' gets replayed every day in tennis channel. For those who don't believe just take 15 minutes and watch that.
TheAssassin
Legend
I don't think his level is higher. But it's close either way.
upchuck
Hall of Fame
You are scraping. Nadal does not have a peak period of play in the same way Federer does.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Its clear now after your reply that your question was just to pump your fav. Djokovic's win in Wim 18.
am only stating the reality. Its not my problem if you don't like the answer and want to be in denial.
it'd be like asking what did Nadal in AO 09 do that he didn't in AO 2017. am not dumb enough or biased or to put AO 17 final Nadal on the same level as AO 09 final Nadal (bias in order to pump up Federer's win in AO 17)
I didn't say he does. His peak/prime varied surface wise.
upchuck
Hall of Fame
Well that's your loss because it would hardly be an unreasonable question. Nadal at the 2017 Australian Open was a mere 31.
abmk
Bionic Poster
the answer is quite obvious in that case.
Just like in the case of Wim 07/08/10 Nadal vs Wim 18 Nadal.
that was the point of the analogy.
lud
Hall of Fame
He didn't won Wimbledon.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Hypothetical peak aggressive Boris has a higher level than anyone on grass if he had a time machine dialed back to when he was 17-20 and faced only Curren and Lendl on grass, didn't put sex above training, had he kept Gunther Bosch as his coach, continued to live in Leimen instead of Monte Carlo and.....and....
All these endless hypotheticals are:
("Then why respond to stupid hypotheticals?")
Sport
G.O.A.T.
In 2018 Nadal was 32 years old, so he was obviously slower. To suggest otherwise would be equally ridiculous as saying that Usain Bolt was equally fast at age 32 than at age 22.
In 2006-2008 Nadal was way faster than in 2018. In 2006 he lacked experience on the surface, but by 2007/2008 he combined peak speed with more experience on grass.
Watch this video and tell me Nadal was equally fast than in 2018
metsman
G.O.A.T.
not be like 48 years old.
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
The only time when Rafa was better on grass than Novak was the time when he beat him at Queens in 2008. Rafa never beat healthy and rested Novak at Wimbledon. He had one technical victory in 2007
over Novak, when Novak had to surrender the match because he had to play three matches in two days (with bloody blisters on his feet and back problems), and Rafa had two or three full days of rest.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-after-djokovic-retires-idUSSCH74778920070707
over Novak, when Novak had to surrender the match because he had to play three matches in two days (with bloody blisters on his feet and back problems), and Rafa had two or three full days of rest.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-after-djokovic-retires-idUSSCH74778920070707
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Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
RAFA very lucky...
SuperSpinner
Semi-Pro
2011 already proved peak Djoko > peak Nadal on grass. The only reason Nadal did better on grass against peak Fed is because of matchups.
JoelSandwich
Hall of Fame
I think Nadal of 2008 probably beats peak Djokovic on grass
And 2007 loses in a close match
And 2007 loses in a close match
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Im not sure his level higher, maybe it is.
One thing I am sure of is that Rafa playing on grass is 10 times more fun than watching Novak on grass.
One thing I am sure of is that Rafa playing on grass is 10 times more fun than watching Novak on grass.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Grass specifically or in general?
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
In general.
But Rafa on grass this year and back in the days was very entertaining tennis. Rafa playing aggressive is beautiful.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Even as a non fan (
) I really liked the way Nadal was playing this year on the grass, the net play, the drop shots etc...He's got great hands he doesn't use them enough IMO. Shame he went away from that at the USO, not sure if that's because he was hurting or because that style of play is just what's most comfortable.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Rafa for sure doesn't use his hands enough. He is so good at it it's a shame we don't see it more.Even as a non fan (
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Peak 2015 Novak beats any version of Rafa on grass. I really don't see how Rafa could stop him because of the way he matches up with him and the level Novak played that year. I think Novak just has more dimensions in his game on grass so when one thing is not firing on all cylinders, he can rely on something else and still beat him. It happened this year.
EnglishNadal
New User
As a nadal fan I think Djokovic is a top 5 all time grass court player. 4 Wimbledon in the same era as the federer is amazing. But nadal in the 2008 final beats the best federer and Djokovic on grass. Rafa is too good
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
I haven't seen anything from Nadal in 2006-2011 + 2018 to think he would beat Djokovic at his best on grass. Think about 2015 Djokovic here. Fed was in fantastic form and he needed luck to push the final to 4 sets. Which version of Nadal would top 2015 Djokovic exactly?
Nadal played great in 2011/2018 and he still lost both times to Djokovic, actually got schooled in 2011. He also lost the first set in their 2007 meeting when Djokovic had an absolute brutal draw and retired in the middle of the 3rd set.
If anything, Nadal's peak level could be better than Djokovic's peak level on fast grass but we can only judge that based on a 500 (250 until recently) tournament and one meeting from 2008.
Nadal played great in 2011/2018 and he still lost both times to Djokovic, actually got schooled in 2011. He also lost the first set in their 2007 meeting when Djokovic had an absolute brutal draw and retired in the middle of the 3rd set.
If anything, Nadal's peak level could be better than Djokovic's peak level on fast grass but we can only judge that based on a 500 (250 until recently) tournament and one meeting from 2008.
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D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Pretty much this. Tennis is about match ups, and if you include the absolute peak forms for a surface that is pretty much neutral in many regards since hard is Djokovic's best, and clay is Nadal's best, on the neutral surface, Djokovic beats him. 2015 Djokovic beats any version of Nadal IMO.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Seems like a joke to many but he has straight-setted Djokovic and Fed in big grass matches. Just never could figure out Rafa
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
I'd have to to with Nadal.
But for overall peak level, well, 2011 was the closest to peak for peak you can get, so Djokovic wins.
Djokovic in 2011 was a phenomenon. Never seen before and will likely never be seen again.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Murray was a great player on grass in his own right. Shame he ran into prime Nadal 3 times.Seems like a joke to many but he has straight-setted Djokovic and Fed in big grass matches. Just never could figure out Rafa
TheGreatOne1997
Rookie
Flip a coin. Tough to decide between 2008 Wimbledon and 2011 Wimbledon Djokovic. It would definitely go 5 sets and 6 plus hours.
I would probably give a SLIGHT nod to Nadal.
Nadal did beat Fed near his peak on grass. Djokovic never had to contend against that. By the time Djokovic/Nadal had their 2011 Wimbledon encounter, Nadal had already begun slowing down in terms of speed, explosion etc. due to injuries. Djokovic played very well at Wimbledon this year, Nadal is a half a dozen years or more out of his grass prime and almost beat him. Probably would have if they didn't close the roof
I would probably give a SLIGHT nod to Nadal.
Nadal did beat Fed near his peak on grass. Djokovic never had to contend against that. By the time Djokovic/Nadal had their 2011 Wimbledon encounter, Nadal had already begun slowing down in terms of speed, explosion etc. due to injuries. Djokovic played very well at Wimbledon this year, Nadal is a half a dozen years or more out of his grass prime and almost beat him. Probably would have if they didn't close the roof
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Yea same here. I just think that version is more lethal than anything Nadal ever produced. The serve, the return, the forehand, the backhand, the resetting a point to a neutral position from a defensive position, and was even great percentage wise at net. There really is no place for Nadal to go.
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Raining hopes
Hall of Fame
Yep, only the very best displays of Peak Federer will be greater favourite in a match against 2015 Grass Novak. He is the second best grass player of the century for a reason.
Druss
Hall of Fame
I can understand why so many Djoko fans on here saying their guy has a better/higher peak, it is a subjective opinion.
Absolute peak on Grass
Nadal: 2007 & 2008
Djokovic: 2011 & 2015
Pretty much guaranteed a 5 setter in this scenario, but going with the good old eye-test, as a neutral, I have to give the edge to the Bull.
Absolute peak on Grass
Nadal: 2007 & 2008
Djokovic: 2011 & 2015
Pretty much guaranteed a 5 setter in this scenario, but going with the good old eye-test, as a neutral, I have to give the edge to the Bull.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I agree. Only peak Federer could handle him, at least amongst the players of this generation.
GoldenSwing
Rookie
Novak's game is deadly on grass....
He is a ridiculous returner and mover on the surface (only one that can slide on grass).
His groundstrokes and rally balls land deep as hell. They penetrate the court really well, so its hard to pick it up.
Lastly, he is a good server... Probably one of the best placement servers in his relative height range.
He isn't a top tier volleyer either, but his drop volleys and touch really compliment the grass court well.
People on this topic are saying Nadal's peak is higher, because he beat Federer in 2008 and was almost there in 2007.
But that's because Nadal's game matches up extremely well to Federer's.
Among players of this generation only Peak Federer can beat and handle 2015 Djokovic (who should've straight setted Federer)
He is a ridiculous returner and mover on the surface (only one that can slide on grass).
His groundstrokes and rally balls land deep as hell. They penetrate the court really well, so its hard to pick it up.
Lastly, he is a good server... Probably one of the best placement servers in his relative height range.
He isn't a top tier volleyer either, but his drop volleys and touch really compliment the grass court well.
People on this topic are saying Nadal's peak is higher, because he beat Federer in 2008 and was almost there in 2007.
But that's because Nadal's game matches up extremely well to Federer's.
Among players of this generation only Peak Federer can beat and handle 2015 Djokovic (who should've straight setted Federer)
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
I'd like 2009 Roddick's chances against 2008 Rafa though actually. Rafa would probably win but I think it'd be a battle, 4 or 5 sets at least.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
You may be right on that one, Roddick was virtually unplayable on serve, and Federer is the best at returning Roddick's serve and he looked helpless. It would be a battle for sure.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
For a lot of the match he had Federer on the ropes. Was surprising to see actually, Roddick taking command against Fed. I think personal demons kind of messed with his mind at important moments even in this match so against a different player that aspect may not be as relevant either.
Nadal was hitting deep baseline shots consistently at 08 Wimbledon though and he was serving decently too. Definitely can't tell who would win.
Heart says Roddick, head says Rafa though.
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