I thought Coco Gauff was overrated and overhyped?

jimmy8

Legend
C'mon where's the people who said she's overhyped? C'mon I want to hear you say that Cincinnati is no major accomplishment. That she doesn't deserve to be on ads. That she shouldn't be talked about positively so much. Where are all the people who said she's overrated? C'mon say something. Are you mad that she won?
 
It really is a fantastic win.

It’s scary to think what Gauff was already achieving with a pretty big technical hole in her game.

Now that the FH is being addressed the sky is really the limit now.

So many interesting matchups and rivalries developing in the women’s game at the moment, the next stage of Gauff’s ascendancy is yet another juicy storyline to enjoy.
 

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
Btw OP, she was overrated and she was overhyped. People weren’t wrong for saying those things, they were true statements, before August 2023.

Simply put it was plain as day that she wasn’t on the level of the top players in the world. She made one Slam final with maybe the easiest draw ever, 0 players within the top 30, and proceeded to do almost nothing for an entire calendar year afterwards. Her loss at Wimbledon just a month ago was one of the lowest of the low. She was not playing at the level of a Slam or 1000 contender.

Her FH, her serve, aggressiveness coming to net, and her general on-court attitude is quite literally night and day compared to what it was at any point in her career. Gilbert has done wonders here. She improved a lot.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Btw OP, she was overrated and she was overhyped. People weren’t wrong for saying those things, they were true statements, before August 2023.

Simply put it was plain as day that she wasn’t on the level of the top players in the world. She made one Slam final with maybe the easiest draw ever, 0 players within the top 30, and proceeded to do almost nothing for an entire calendar year afterwards. Her loss at Wimbledon just a month ago was one of the lowest of the low. She was not playing at the level of a Slam or 1000 contender.

Her FH, her serve, aggressiveness coming to net, and her general on-court attitude is quite literally night and day compared to what it was at any point in her career. Gilbert has done wonders here. She improved a lot.
Thank you! I think you and I had this convo months ago in the WTA thread. Gauff was flailing. She was in the top 10 but at best was a top 30 player. Her record against the fellow top 10 players was horrible. After the French Open QF loss to Swiatek, Gauff had lost 7 consecutive matches against top 10 players. Every single loss was in straight sets. That's not good for someone who was in the top 10.

Now with Brad on board, she's seemingly turned a new page with 11 wins from her last 12 matches and finally broke her 0-6 H2H against Swiatek.

Let's see how she goes at the US Open.
 

Mr.Lob

G.O.A.T.
Thank you! I think you and I had this convo months ago in the WTA thread. Gauff was flailing. She was in the top 10 but at best was a top 30 player. Her record against the fellow top 10 players was horrible. After the French Open QF loss to Swiatek, Gauff had lost 7 consecutive matches against top 10 players. Every single loss was in straight sets. That's not good for someone who was in the top 10.

Now with Brad on board, she's seemingly turned a new page with 11 wins from her last 12 matches and finally broke her 0-6 H2H against Swiatek.

Let's see how she goes at the US Open.
Well, OP is talking to you, as was I in yesterday's title thread. My recollection, from a previous thread several weeks ago, was that you had written off Coco ever becoming a top big time player, winning big tournaments and beating the top players. Written...her...off. Done. You, of course, mentioned all the negative stats. Never took a set off Swiatek. My position was she was only 19 years old, had some big offensive weapons and great defense. I maintained that Coco's mental approach/strength was what she needed to work on most...enter Brad Gilbert.

Now, does yesterdays big win in Cincy mean she's "arrived"? No. Anyone who saw the match yesterday will know she still has improvement to make in her mental approach during a match. Too many periods of timid play, opportunities to be aggressive passed by, going into defensive mode when the pressure is on. But, she took a big step in being able to bounce back from those stress filled moments for the title. Served out the match like a boss. Hopefully she can continue to improve and become the player she's capable of. She's only 19. :)
 

JoshDragon

Hall of Fame
C'mon where's the people who said she's overhyped? C'mon I want to hear you say that Cincinnati is no major accomplishment. That she doesn't deserve to be on ads. That she shouldn't be talked about positively so much. Where are all the people who said she's overrated? C'mon say something. Are you mad that she won?
Well, she is overhyped. So is Sinbad (Sinner.)
 

Keizer

Hall of Fame
Very difficult to fix a groundstroke. I completely get why people were trashing Gauff. That FH was literally the biggest hole in her game. She is now a contender at majors with her physical gifts. If she wins one in the next year I wouldn’t be shocked.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Well, OP is talking to you, as was I in yesterday's title thread. My recollection, from a previous thread several weeks ago, was that you had written off Coco ever becoming a top big time player, winning big tournaments and beating the top players. Written...her...off. Done. You, of course, mentioned all the negative stats. Never took a set off Swiatek. My position was she was only 19 years old, had some big offensive weapons and great defense. I maintained that Coco's mental approach/strength was what she needed to work on most...enter Brad Gilbert.

Now, does yesterdays big win in Cincy mean she's "arrived"? No. Anyone who saw the match yesterday will know she still has improvement to make in her mental approach during a match. Too many periods of timid play, opportunities to be aggressive passed by, going into defensive mode when the pressure is on. But, she took a big step in being able to bounce back from those stress filled moments for the title. Served out the match like a boss. Hopefully she can continue to improve and become the player she's capable of. She's only 19. :)
I said this about a month and a half ago and I stand by what I said at that point.
The hype on Gauff is just way too much and she really hasn't shown she has what it takes against the top players, she shouldn't be in the top 10 and i'll be happy when her ranking drops so she can actually work on her game and improve cause she doesn't have what it takes to be at the top.
She was hyped and her results showed she didn't have what it takes against the top players as she lost 7 straight matches all in straight sets to fellow top 10 players. Half of which were bagels which is embarrassing for a top 10 player. I said I hope she can work on her game and improve as she didn't have what it takes to be at the top. She's hired Brad who's worked on her game helped her get her first 1000 title. Well done. But again, let's not overhype, we've seen many players win a 1000 and not win slams so let's see.
 

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
C'mon where's the people who said she's overhyped? C'mon I want to hear you say that Cincinnati is no major accomplishment. That she doesn't deserve to be on ads. That she shouldn't be talked about positively so much. Where are all the people who said she's overrated? C'mon say something. Are you mad that she won?
Has she won a Slam title yet? If not, she doesn't belong with multiple Slam winners yet.
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
C'mon where's the people who said she's overhyped? C'mon I want to hear you say that Cincinnati is no major accomplishment. That she doesn't deserve to be on ads. That she shouldn't be talked about positively so much. Where are all the people who said she's overrated? C'mon say something. Are you mad that she won?
If she wins USO I will be impressed. She played great at Cincy but will need to win slams now.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
She doesn't belong with?

Who just beat the number 1 in the world? Who just won 2 professional tournaments? Was it you?
Caroline Garcia did literally this same thing last year that Coco has done this year.

Won a tournament by beating #1 Swiatek en route.
Won Cincinnati with huge wins over top 10 players.

She's now currently 20th in this years race rankings with 0 titles and didn't go past a slam 4R once.

I'm not saying Gauff will turn into Garcia next year but let's take a breath
 
Honestly I think Gauff is going to win one of the next two majors.

She has improved massively this week after seemingly floundering for a while.

That weird progression pattern with huge advancements and then lulls kind of matches the way she has progressed her career in the past. When she progresses, she takes massive steps forward.

I’m surprised more people haven’t mentioned her physicality this week. I know she is an amazing athlete, but there are many great athletes who lose their shXx in tough weather. That final was played in absolutely brutal conditions and Gauff was acting like the weather didn’t mean a damn thing.
 

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
She doesn't belong with?

Who just beat the number 1 in the world? Who just won 2 professional tournaments? Was it you?
Organizers were criticised, and rightly so, for featuring her alongside Wimbledon hall of famers. So many other players deserved that more than her at this point in her career. I get that you're a Coco fangirl and she's a promising talent who can win some majors soon. But she still needs to actually win a Slam first before she can be placed alongside multiple Slam winners. I hope she does it soon.

As for me winning WTA titles, they wouldn't allow a man competing. I wouldn't mind playing with some WTA players though. ;)
 

jimmy8

Legend
Caroline Garcia did literally this same thing last year that Coco has done this year.

Won a tournament by beating #1 Swiatek en route.
Won Cincinnati with huge wins over top 10 players.

She's now currently 20th in this years race rankings with 0 titles and didn't go past a slam 4R once.

I'm not saying Gauff will turn into Garcia next year but let's take a breath
And how much hype did Caroline Garcia get at the time? A whole lot. Overhype?

Gauff is 19, take a breath. Even if Gauff fails in your eyes in the near future, she has many years to prove herself. The people here saying she's overhyped also said she's not going to do anything. I said she has potential just wait and see. Some people were wrong, some people were too harsh.
 

jimmy8

Legend
Organizers were criticised, and rightly so, for featuring her alongside Wimbledon hall of famers. So many other players deserved that more than her at this point in her career. I get that you're a Coco fangirl and she's a promising talent who can win some majors soon. But she still needs to actually win a Slam first before she can be placed alongside multiple Slam winners. I hope she does it soon.

As for me winning WTA titles, they wouldn't allow a man competing. I wouldn't mind playing with some WTA players though. ;)
she doesn't deserve to be alongside?

Fangirl?

Why does it matter to you who is in an ad?

Why does it matter if someone won a slam?

Does Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone not deserve to be alongside because they never won a championship?

Why can't people just appreciate the amount of work and dedication these top athletes put in to get to where they are?
 

tex123

Hall of Fame
C'mon where's the people who said she's overhyped? C'mon I want to hear you say that Cincinnati is no major accomplishment. That she doesn't deserve to be on ads. That she shouldn't be talked about positively so much. Where are all the people who said she's overrated? C'mon say something. Are you mad that she won?
It's not a I-told-you-so moment. She was talented but not very good. She luckily managed to get Brad Gilbert. When the right partnership is forged, it can do wonders for your game.
Your game can go south if you choose the wrong one I.e Felix-Toni or Novak-Todd or if you do coach hoping like Raducanu does.
 

jimmy8

Legend
It's not a I-told-you-so moment. She was talented but not very good. She luckily managed to get Brad Gilbert. When the right partnership is forged, it can do wonders for your game.
Your game can go south if you choose the wrong one I.e Felix-Toni or Novak-Todd or if you do coach hoping like Raducanu does.
So she's not deserving of the hype now that she won what she won?

So she didn't prove the people wrong who said she wasn't going to win anything?

So she got the right coaching and is better now, but she still doesn't deserve any hype because only the coaches deserve any credit?
 

Gizo

Hall of Fame
I always separate the player from the hype around them, circulated and intensified by other people, and which ultimately is beyond their control.

It's not her fault what ESPN, Evert, McEnroe etc., were saying about her and predicted for her since 2019, and it would seem very silly to me to hold that against her.

Ultimately, she is currently only 19 years old, and relatively speaking due to sporting trends a 19 year old player in 2023 is younger than that in 2003, 1993 etc. So far she has reached a grand slam final and 3 more grand slam quarter-finals, and won 5 WTA titles including 3 this season, and both 1000 and 500 level titles in recent weeks. She has done very well so far, and is on the right track.
 

tex123

Hall of Fame
So she's not deserving of the hype now that she won what she won?

So she didn't prove the people wrong who said she wasn't going to win anything?

So she got the right coaching and is better now, but she still doesn't deserve any hype because only the coaches deserve any credit?
I think you're conflicted. It's great she's won a title. Raducanu did as well. Where is she now? Hold your horses a bit and see where she goes. As far as the hype goes, you can hype all you want. Not many people will buy it. Only time will tell.
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
I always separate the player from the hype around them, circulated and intensified by other people, and which ultimately is beyond their control.

It's not her fault what ESPN, Evert, McEnroe etc., were saying about her and predicted for her since 2019, and it would seem very silly to me to hold that against her.

Ultimately, she is currently only 19 years old, and relatively speaking due to sporting trends a 19 year old player in 2023 is younger than that in 2003, 1993 etc. So far she has reached a grand slam final and 3 more grand slam quarter-finals, and won 5 WTA titles including 3 this season, and both 1000 and 500 level titles in recent weeks. She has done very well so far, and is on the right track.
That's the current problem with US tennis players.
If they are fairly good, they are very prone to be overhyped because of their lack of ATG prospects. This can easily turn against them.
 

jimmy8

Legend
I think you're conflicted. It's great she's won a title. Raducanu did as well. Where is she now? Hold your horses a bit and see where she goes. As far as the hype goes, you can hype all you want. Not many people will buy it. Only time will tell.
I think you're conflicted. I'm not trying to hype, I'm trying to say the hype was there for a reason. And I was saying be patient, she might figure this out, she just needs better coaching, more aggressiveness (see older threads about Coco). People were cutting her down and I didn't like that.
 

No_Kwan_Do

Semi-Pro
She was overhyped for a number of years. Up until this year, she had won a total of 2 x 250s in her career and she barely beat a top 20 player for well over a year in 2022/2023. Her career results didn't warrant the hype she was afforded as a 16, 17 or even 18 year old.

She appointed someone of note this summer, and off she goes. Her forehand is still an issue, but it's a lot more solid than it was even a couple of months ago. Even a world-class coach can't fix a forehand in 6 weeks and especially not mid-season while the athlete is still competing, but Gilbert's probably told her to stop hitting it off the back foot and step into it more. Use it to attack, not to help her defend.

What's frightening for the rest of the tour is that Gauff was/is a solid top 10 player at 18/19 even with a dodgy forehand, which is arguably the most important shot in tennis after the serve. The rest of her game was good enough to keep her there. If she develops that FH into a weapon, she'll be winning slams and competing for world number 1 without a doubt.
 
She is playing so much better in just the last month. She's been overhyped (which isn't her fault of course)...

One of the hardest thing about the WTA in recent years is it doesn't really seem to pay to hype anyone because the whole WTA is topsy turvy. The women are consistently inconsistent. So time will tell. I think Coco is going to be playing much better and more consistently herself...I also think the WTA overall will remain somewhat topsy turvy.

BTW, imagine if you were Jessica Pegula, who has been ranked higher for the entire year with very little hype...And very little hype getting to that point. Lol and all the media ever mentions is that your family owns the Bills. I mean, it would be sort of annoying. But the media likes to create some sensationalism or buzz about whomever they talk about..Apparently for Jessica the most interesting thing they can say is about her family and for Coco they deem her a phenom because of her young age when she burst onto the scene (they are doing the same for Andreeva too). Idk, some people can see through what the media does and make their own call and others get swept up in the hype, even if it is way premature. It's a prediction of sorts, some of those come true and some don't. I mean they used to hype Sloane as well--look how that turned out....one slam, topsy turvy and can be beaten by almost anyone.
 

LaVie en Rose

Hall of Fame
She is improving fast in front of our eyes.Swiatek win was awesome.Although Muchova came in to F exhausted by the heat /semi injured as it is often with her,Gauff played very solid F.Honestly nice to see ,not a big fan of her game,but personality for sure.Such mature at such young age
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
Anybody else realize how much better she is than any other teenagers out there?

She is the only teen inside the top 50, and she’s about a week away from passing Sabalenka and becoming the #2 rated female player in the world in the UTR computer ratings.
 

Max G.

Legend
It's how TW is. Anytime you predict someone is going to be really good, everyone screams "overhyped, they're not that good yet!!!" But hype is a prediction of how good they will be in the future.

BTW, imagine if you were Jessica Pegula, who has been ranked higher for the entire year with very little hype...

Yes. Because she's 29 and not 19! Age matters! A 19-year-old in the top 10 is pretty exciting and it's likely they'll keep improving and do great things! A 29-year-old - well, whatever rank they are now may well be the highest they achieve.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
C'mon where's the people who said she's overhyped? C'mon I want to hear you say that Cincinnati is no major accomplishment. That she doesn't deserve to be on ads. That she shouldn't be talked about positively so much. Where are all the people who said she's overrated? C'mon say something. Are you mad that she won?
Show me a Slam
 
Yes. Because she's 29 and not 19! Age matters! A 19-year-old in the top 10 is pretty exciting and it's likely they'll keep improving and do great things! A 29-year-old - well, whatever rank they are now may well be the highest they achieve.
So what, only prediction and speculation is the only basis you deem the appropriate one for commentary and discussion and hype? In my world, I like actual results and facts. I even strongly dislike Djokovic and he's old and it's just a fact that Sunday's final was great and hype worthy (pre, during, and post). Maybe we just process the world differently. I think that a lot of TTW puts a ton of emphasis on trying to be a soothsayer...or tries to go back and rewrite history and matchups that didn't happen and never could, never will...that stuff doesn't interest me.

I think young is exciting and promising. I love Coco's personality. The forehand and game play has been sort of rough to watch...it's not a pretty or inspiring game from that perspective, to me. She's improved a ton in a MONTH which is amazing and I love her fighting spirit. Personally, I can like a player and still separate when they have been overhyped...I'm glad she is improving & hope she can live up to it. Actually maybe it was because of all the hype and her personality that she made a strong decision to hire new coach a couple of months ago...She's said as much in her press conferences, ie that she hasn't done as well as she knows she is capable of. That is a fact that even she acknowledged...Perhaps knowing that she could do better and was not living up to her potential caused her to take big action with the coach thing. I think so.

I agree that 29 year old is maybe the highest we will see someone. I also think when someone plays steady like Pegula that age is less of a factor and when someone plays explosive like Coco then age is a factor. Like perhaps Coco's window for success won't last to 29..idk, just a thought. Ok thanks for your thoughts!
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
There's no question that Coco is playing way better these days. Whether she wins a major soon or ever - who knows. I think that hiring Gilbert was definitely a great move - but separating from her entourage is even a bigger reason for her recent results. I've seen her at Cincy past years, and she always looked so tense, as if having a burden of all those people around her waiting for her to win big. This year she was visibly just happier. Good for her.
 

Federev

Legend
C'mon where's the people who said she's overhyped? C'mon I want to hear you say that Cincinnati is no major accomplishment. That she doesn't deserve to be on ads. That she shouldn't be talked about positively so much. Where are all the people who said she's overrated? C'mon say something. Are you mad that she won?


I mean… to me - as I think about it - Cincinnati is no major accomplishment. I think she doesn't deserve to be on ads. I kind of feel she shouldn't be talked about positively so much. I tend to think she's overrated. I guess it really boils down to that I’m mad that she won.

Does that satisfy you?
 

jimmy8

Legend
I mean… to me - as I think about it - Cincinnati is no major accomplishment. I think she doesn't deserve to be on ads. I kind of feel she shouldn't be talked about positively so much. I tend to think she's overrated. I guess it really boils down to that I’m mad that she won.

Does that satisfy you?
I appreciate your honesty. I also appreciate the honesty within USTA.
 

Federev

Legend
I appreciate your honesty. I also appreciate the honesty within USTA.

I just copied and pasted your words.

My only issue w Gauff is the level of hype has been enormous in my best sense compared to her actual play and - others who could be hyped more but aren’t and I ask why.

Pegula for instance. She’s way outperformed Coco. Very little attention. Danielle Collins often out performs her. (Till Sunday). Little attention in comparison.

Why is that? Is it cause they’re older, cause they’re white? Cause they’re considered less attractive?

I don’t know but it’s not like she even won a slam like Emma did. And even now folks are just starting to adjust expectations for Emma - whose done nothing of note since ‘21.

So good for Coco, but it’s been a long time coming compared to the hype IMO.
 

atatu

Legend
I really don't know what people are referring to in terms of hype ? I guess I've seen her New Balance commercials and maybe a Milk commercial but that's about it. Pegula and Collins (and Garcia) are all closer to 30 than 19 so I don't think the comparisons are valid there.
 

jimmy8

Legend
I just copied and pasted your words.

My only issue w Gauff is the level of hype has been enormous in my best sense compared to her actual play and - others who could be hyped more but aren’t and I ask why.

Pegula for instance. She’s way outperformed Coco. Very little attention. Danielle Collins often out performs her. (Till Sunday). Little attention in comparison.

Why is that? Is it cause they’re older, cause they’re white? Cause they’re considered less attractive?

I don’t know but it’s not like she even won a slam like Emma did. And even now folks are just starting to adjust expectations for Emma - whose done nothing of note since ‘21.

So good for Coco, but it’s been a long time coming compared to the hype IMO.
Thank you. Danielle Collins says, "**** ***!"
 
Top