I Want A 120 MPH Serve

BallBag

BallBag

Professional
My working first serve is around 80 MPH (from PlaySight). I can hit my thirds with it and I get about 60% in on a good day. I can crank one out at 100 MPH but I don't have good placement and I feel like I'm straining to hit it that big. I'll go big in a 40-0, 0-40 or a "Jesus take the wheel" situation.

If I try to hit it harder than 100 MPH then I don't get a clean hit, my shoulder starts feeling weird and my timing is all off. All signs that I'm doing it wrong. I want to add 20 MPH so that I have a 100 MPH working serve and save the buck 20 heater for special occasions.


Don't mind the foot faults, I was in rapid fire mode. Also please don't tell me to switch to a platform stance. I tried it and it was horrible. I think I open up the hips too much for trophy but I don't know what else to work on. Any ideas where I can find that extra 20 MPH?
 
I know one player at our club who can hit that kind of pace and his serve looks nothing like yours.

His is a very simple action, platform stance I am afraid, slow start, ball placed into the air. Then he drops his right shoulder, knees bent and explodes in one simple action up at the ball. The thing looks effortless and the ball goes like a rocket.

As for what to work on, you're dropping your head, a nasty habit I have. It is why so many of your serves are heading to the base of the net. I think you're bringing you right foot across too early and too far, but my serve would look like a disaster on a video, so what do I know.

I know you don't want to remodel it, but I don't see how you can possibly achieve the pace you want with that technique, let alone make it reliable at high speeds.

Listen to the big servers on here and do what they say. Even then you will be struggling to get that kind of pace. I have encountered very few amateur players who can really achieve 120mph plus.
 
First off I'm not an instructor (disclaimer) but you know many aren't here on TT and you will get lots of advice so take with grain of salt. You seem to have a very good motion. I hold racquet more with hand and 5th finger hanging off butt. Frees up wrist and hand motion on serves and groundstrokes for that matter and increases speed. My 0.02. As a parting shot I know speed is seductive but why do you need more? I've done just the opposite and given up 5-10 mph on my serve to go for placement which overall gets me more points than the occ ace. Anyway good luck in your speed quest.
 
zaph said:
I know one player at our club who can hit that kind of pace and his serve looks nothing like yours.

His is a very simple action, platform stance I am afraid, slow start, ball placed into the air. Then he drops his right shoulder, knees bent and explodes in one simple action up at the ball. The thing looks effortless and the ball goes like a rocket.

As for what to work on, you're dropping your head, a nasty habit I have. It is why so many of your serves are heading to the base of the net. I think you're bringing you right foot across too early and too far, but my serve would look like a disaster on a video, so what do I know.

I know you don't want to remodel it, but I don't see how you can possibly achieve the pace you want with that technique, let alone make it reliable at high speeds.

Listen to the big servers on here and do what they say. Even then you will be struggling to get that kind of pace. I have encountered very few amateur players who can really achieve 120mph plus.
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What do you mean by dropping my head? racquet head or the one in the hat?
 
BallBag said:
What do you mean by dropping my head? racquet head or the one in the hat?
Click to expand...

Literally your head, your actual head. It is pulling your serve down, a bit like looking up too early on a ground stroke.

The way other players have tried to describe it to me, is stay up on the ball.

Sorry I am not very good at describing things like this.
 
zaph said:
Literally your head, your actual head. It is pulling your serve down, a bit like looking up too early on a ground stroke.

The way other players have tried to describe it to me, is stay up on the ball.

Sorry I am not very good at describing things like this.
Click to expand...


Is that what you mean? I don't know if I do it that bad but I'll keep that in mind since tend to miss low on bad days.
 
I can't tell from the video very well but I'd check the grip. Is the heal pad of your palm on bevel 2? It looks like it might be over too far to the eastern backhand side. Looks like you are having to flex your wrist back to get the racket face square at impact and it's not actually square. The racket is not quite in line with your arm, it's at a slight angle which is closing the face. I think this is taking away some power.
 
BallBag said:
Don't mind the foot faults, I was in rapid fire mode. Also please don't tell me to switch to a platform stance. I tried it and it was horrible. I think I open up the hips too much for trophy but I don't know what else to work on. Any ideas where I can find that extra 20 MPH?
Click to expand...

Nice basic form. I think it can help to video your serve in slow motion so that you can make comparison to a professional model with more precision.

My impression from watching your serve is that you are over-rotating slightly through contact. The shoulder needs to slow slightly at contact to transfer more of the speed into internal rotation and racquet speed.

So, I'd experiment with trying to slow your body rotation just before contact.
 
Dan R said:
I can't tell from the video very well but I'd check the grip. Is the heal pad of your palm on bevel 2? It looks like it might be over too far to the eastern backhand side. Looks like you are having to flex your wrist back to get the racket face square at impact and it's not actually square. The racket is not quite in line with your arm, it's at a slight angle which is closing the face. I think this is taking away some power.
Click to expand...

WildVolley said:
Nice basic form. I think it can help to video your serve in slow motion so that you can make comparison to a professional model with more precision.

My impression from watching your serve is that you are over-rotating slightly through contact. The shoulder needs to slow slightly at contact to transfer more of the speed into internal rotation and racquet speed.

So, I'd experiment with trying to slow your body rotation just before contact.
Click to expand...

I'll try it, thanks.
 
WildVolley said:
Nice basic form. I think it can help to video your serve in slow motion so that you can make comparison to a professional model with more precision.

My impression from watching your serve is that you are over-rotating slightly through contact. The shoulder needs to slow slightly at contact to transfer more of the speed into internal rotation and racquet speed.

So, I'd experiment with trying to slow your body rotation just before contact.
Click to expand...

Not bringing the right foot past the left would go a long way towards that...

J
 
BallBag said:
I'm not doubting you, I'm just not sure how to make it flatter.
Click to expand...

Toss the ball further into the court, bring your right foot up to the arch of your left foot, keep your left arm up pointing at the ball, and then throw your racquet at the dead center of the ball (don't let go of it though.)

J
 
J011yroger said:
Toss the ball further into the court, bring your right foot up to the arch of your left foot, keep your left arm up pointing at the ball, and then throw your racquet at the dead center of the ball (don't let go of it though.)

J
Click to expand...

I'll try it, thanks.
 
J011yroger said:
Don't get discouraged if it goes straight into the back fence or bottom of the net. First figure out how to make it go fast then figure out how to aim it.

J
Click to expand...

Yeah, I like to bounce serves against the backboard while I'm working on it. Keeps me from worrying about where it goes and doing the walk a shame to pick up a hopper of balls from the bottom of the net.

I have a match on a PlaySight court in 2 weeks and then another a month from today so I'll report progress.
 
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Serves are hard... 120mph will come, just focus on timing and fluidity.
Increase range of motion as time progresses. It should feel 'easy' hitting 120mph.
 
The ball toss is too far to your right, your swing through the ball too much with your arm are losing the leverage of your arm rotation (pronation) which looks decent btw, and I'd like to see a side view also as it seems your toss may be too overhead for a smokin first serve.

You should figure out the proper toss location first as that will probably fix your racquet arm angle and rotational leverage by itself assuming you don't change anything else.

The toss is the boss.
 
BallBag said:
My working first serve is around 80 MPH (from PlaySight). I can hit my thirds with it and I get about 60% in on a good day. I can crank one out at 100 MPH but I don't have good placement
Click to expand...

A consistent 100 MPH serve might be a better goal.

I attended a 250 ATP event this summer (Winston Salem Open). Most pro 1st serves, in both doubles and singles, were in the 100-115 MPH range. Except for 6'4" Struff, who has a very live arm and was hitting 130+ MPH (which literally sounded like a firecracker going off!)

A well-placed 100 MPH serve would be a heck of a weapon at anything less than ATP level. Fed, for example, often gets aces with serves between 100 and 110 MPH, and this is against the best and fastest returners in the world...

I wouldn't get hung up on the 120 number... I bet Jolly's 120 MPH serves aren't as effective as Fed's 110 MPH :)
 
nytennisaddict said:
not saying i can serve 120... but i serve best when it doesn't feel like i put much effort into it...
Click to expand...

I think I've hit over 120 (wasn't on radar but was faster than my practice serves on radar) about a decade ago (glory days, not hitting nearly that fast now). I felt I was swinging fast at the time, but I recall being very relaxed that day.

So I agree with your assessment. A general goal should be to try to hold form, but also relax at the same time . . . if that makes sense. Also, I think if you try to muscle it too much, there's a greater injury risk.

My belief is form and timing first. Then, if that looks close to a pro-model, exercises to develop increased explosiveness.
 
WildVolley said:
I think I've hit over 120 (wasn't on radar but was faster than my practice serves on radar) about a decade ago (glory days, not hitting nearly that fast now). I felt I was swinging fast at the time, but I recall being very relaxed that day.

So I agree with your assessment. A general goal should be to try to hold form, but also relax at the same time . . . if that makes sense. Also, I think if you try to muscle it too much, there's a greater injury risk.

My belief is form and timing first. Then, if that looks close to a pro-model, exercises to develop increased explosiveness.
Click to expand...
Yes, Imo the better the form, the more powerful controlled shots can be. Power tends to eminate from excellent technique.
 
Curious said:
You are simply not fast, explosive and maybe loose enough to serve at 120mph no matter how good/proper your technique is. And I don't know what you can do about it.
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You could be right, but 120 isn't really as fast as we make it out to be and if the technique is done well, speed will increase to some extent. He very well could clean up the technique enough to hit 111 while going for 120 and that wouldn't be a great loss.
 
5263 said:
You could be right, but 120 isn't really as fast as we make it out to be and if the technique is done well, speed will increase to some extent. He very well could clean up the technique enough to hit 111 while going for 120 and that wouldn't be a great loss.
Click to expand...
Sure, what I believe is, provided you have no obvious technique issue, the explosiveness of the racket throwing motion is the main determinant. Some are gifted or just better than others at that.
 
Here is 6'0" Bautisa Agut, ATP #14 in the world, in his 1st service game (fresh arm). Look how explosive his motion is (pretty typical serve for ATP outside top 10). Yet he rarely if ever hits 120.

Serves: 112 MPH, 105 MPH, 115 MPH, 107 MPH, etc.

5'9" Džumhur, #32 in the world, often doesn't even break 100 MPH on his 1st serve.

120 MPH is a huge serve, and usually an unrealistic goal for a rec player...

 
IowaGuy said:
Here is 6'0" Bautisa Agut, ATP #14 in the world, in his 1st service game (fresh arm). Look how explosive his motion is (pretty typical serve for ATP outside top 10). Yet he rarely if ever hits 120.

Serves: 112 MPH, 105 MPH, 115 MPH, 107 MPH, etc.

5'9" Džumhur, #32 in the world, often doesn't even break 100 MPH on his 1st serve.

120 MPH is a huge serve, and usually an unrealistic goal for a rec player...

Click to expand...
It can't be a coincidence that they were also the ones I was thinking about as examples of explosiveness! Maybe they loose a little in power due to their height.
 
Curious said:
Maybe they lose a little in power due to their height.
Click to expand...

I think that's true, and probably why 6'4" Struff seems to easily pop off 130 MPH serves while Agut can only rarely scratch 120.

But, for rec players, 6'0" is on the taller side (almost 1 standard deviation from the mean), with 5'9" Dzumur closer to average:

mens-average-height.jpg
 
IowaGuy said:
I think that's true, and probably why 6'4" Struff seems to easily pop off 130 MPH serves while Agut can only rarely scratch 120.

But, for rec players, 6'0" is on the taller side (almost 1 standard deviation from the mean), with 5'9" Dzumur closer to average:

mens-average-height.jpg
Click to expand...
Yeah. And also I guess most pro players would be explosive in their throwing motion while most rec folks are not anyway.
 
IowaGuy said:
A consistent 100 MPH serve might be a better goal.

I attended a 250 ATP event this summer (Winston Salem Open). Most pro 1st serves, in both doubles and singles, were in the 100-115 MPH range. Except for 6'4" Struff, who has a very live arm and was hitting 130+ MPH (which literally sounded like a firecracker going off!)

A well-placed 100 MPH serve would be a heck of a weapon at anything less than ATP level. Fed, for example, often gets aces with serves between 100 and 110 MPH, and this is against the best and fastest returners in the world...

I wouldn't get hung up on the 120 number... I bet Jolly's 120 MPH serves aren't as effective as Fed's 110 MPH :)
Click to expand...

If you can swing fast enough to serve 120 and you dial it back to 100 by adding spin that's very different than maxing out at 100.

Fed's 110 is better than my 120 both because of location and the fact that he is swinging fast enough to serve 130.

J
 
BallBag said:
My working first serve is around 80 MPH (from PlaySight). I can hit my thirds with it and I get about 60% in on a good day. I can crank one out at 100 MPH but I don't have good placement and I feel like I'm straining to hit it that big. I'll go big in a 40-0, 0-40 or a "Jesus take the wheel" situation.

If I try to hit it harder than 100 MPH then I don't get a clean hit, my shoulder starts feeling weird and my timing is all off. All signs that I'm doing it wrong. I want to add 20 MPH so that I have a 100 MPH working serve and save the buck 20 heater for special occasions.


Don't mind the foot faults, I was in rapid fire mode. Also please don't tell me to switch to a platform stance. I tried it and it was horrible. I think I open up the hips too much for trophy but I don't know what else to work on. Any ideas where I can find that extra 20 MPH?
Click to expand...


I want a Mercedes. So what?
 
IowaGuy said:
Here is 6'0" Bautisa Agut, ATP #14 in the world, in his 1st service game (fresh arm). Look how explosive his motion is (pretty typical serve for ATP outside top 10). Yet he rarely if ever hits 120.

Serves: 112 MPH, 105 MPH, 115 MPH, 107 MPH, etc.

5'9" Džumhur, #32 in the world, often doesn't even break 100 MPH on his 1st serve.

120 MPH is a huge serve, and usually an unrealistic goal for a rec player...

Click to expand...
But those speeds are with placement and spin for control. Not their all-out max speed serves.

I was radared at 10x mph when I was a tiny 5’ 3” teen, but it was a flat serve without a lot of control and consistency.
 
I tried everything. Lessons. Videos. Practiced with loads of baskets. Light racquets. Heavy racquets. Offered my soul to the devil, who ignored me. Prayed to God, who ignored me even more. My serve IS getting faster, but it will never be a bullet. Never.
 
Rubens said:
I tried everything. Lessons. Videos. Practiced with loads of baskets. Light racquets. Heavy racquets. Offered my soul to the devil, who ignored me. Prayed to God, who ignored me even more. My serve IS getting faster, but it will never be a bullet. Never.
Click to expand...
It's a genetic insufficiency, a little short of a defect but shouldn't kill you.:p
 
I estimate that a roughly average, fit person with good technique and training since they were a kid — someone who isn’t a genetic outlier — should be able to hit a max speed serve of around 105-115 mph.

Matt Lin, for example. Maybe around 5’11”? Athletic, but he doesn’t appear to be a 10 second 100 meter sprinter or 97 mph baseball caliber arm, or benching 225 for 25 times, or dunking a basketball.
 
Last edited:
onehandbh said:
I estimate that a roughly average, fit person with good technique and training since they were a mid — someone who isn’t a genetic outlier — should be able to hit a max speed serve of around 105-115 mph.

Matt Lin, for example. Maybe around 5’11”? Athletic, but he doesn’t appear to be a 10 second 100 meter sprinter or 97 mph baseball caliber arm, or benching 225 for 25 times, or dunking a basketball.
Click to expand...

Here is a nice video, speaking of Matt Lin. I think he confirms my opinion about the significance of explosive throw, nice an easy during the windup like many good servers.

 
I been working on my serve for a good while now. I even making the switch to platform. Now all this time I realized that I am chasing the big serve without even trying to get
stronger. I play a lot of tennis but not even one push up or pull up to try and get stronger. I guess that is what is holding me back lol.
 
Wise one said:
I want a Mercedes. So what?
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he is saying he is willing to work to get it....are you willing to work and sacrifice for the Mercedes?

Imo from working with servers over the last couple of decades, 115-120 is (roughly speaking) sort of like the 84-87 mph fastball. In other words, very doable and not that meaningful unless your location is excellent. While I'm not saying EVERYONE can do it, I think most young men who are into sports like this can. While any 120 is a useful serve against the avg rec player, without hitting the right spots, it doesn't mean much against better players and with poor location can get you burned bad if you are coming to net behind it as in dubs.
 
5263 said:
he is saying he is willing to work to get it....are you willing to work and sacrifice for the Mercedes?

Imo from working with servers over the last couple of decades, 115-120 is (roughly speaking) sort of like the 84-87 mph fastball. In other words, very doable and not that meaningful unless your location is excellent. While I'm not saying EVERYONE can do it, I think most young men who are into sports like this can. While any 120 is a useful serve against the avg rec player, without hitting the right spots, it doesn't mean much against better players and with poor location can get you burned bad if you are coming to net behind it as in dubs.
Click to expand...

aroldis_chapman.jpg


J
 
Curious said:
Here is a nice video, speaking of Matt Lin. I think he confirms my opinion about the significance of explosive throw, nice an easy during the windup like many good servers.

Click to expand...

Yes, very explosive throw, but still not much MPH on his serve (not a real tall guy).

For example, the first flattish serve he gets in at 5:00, how fast do you think that is traveling? His opponent is able to stand at the baseline at take basically a full cut on those 1st serves :-)

He has great groundies, but his serve is not a weapon at 4.5+, IMHO. Good enough to not be reliably attacked at that level, but not many free points...
 
IowaGuy said:
Yes, very explosive throw, but still not much MPH on his serve (not a real tall guy).

For example, the first flattish serve he gets in at 5:00, how fast do you think that is traveling? His opponent is able to stand at the baseline at take basically a full cut on those 1st serves :)

He has great groundies, but his serve is not a weapon at 4.5+, IMHO. Good enough to not be reliably attacked at that level, but not many free points...
Click to expand...
His serve is a weapon, IMO. I think he was radared just under 120 at TW.
 
IowaGuy said:
Yes, very explosive throw, but still not much MPH on his serve (not a real tall guy).

For example, the first flattish serve he gets in at 5:00, how fast do you think that is traveling? His opponent is able to stand at the baseline at take basically a full cut on those 1st serves :)

He has great groundies, but his serve is not a weapon at 4.5+, IMHO. Good enough to not be reliably attacked at that level, but not many free points...
Click to expand...
Matt Lin's serve is a big weapon at 4.5. I would say it is 5.0ish level serve.

BTW his opponent in that video has a UTR of 13.71. Compare that to Serena W. at 12.89.
 
5263 said:
he is saying he is willing to work to get it....are you willing to work and sacrifice for the Mercedes?

Imo from working with servers over the last couple of decades, 115-120 is (roughly speaking) sort of like the 84-87 mph fastball. In other words, very doable and not that meaningful unless your location is excellent. While I'm not saying EVERYONE can do it, I think most young men who are into sports like this can. While any 120 is a useful serve against the avg rec player, without hitting the right spots, it doesn't mean much against better players and with poor location can get you burned bad if you are coming to net behind it as in dubs.
Click to expand...

OP has an 80mph working first serve wants to jump 25%+ up in speed.

Aim for an 85mph and then 90 mph working first serve... Baby steps.
 
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