I Want A 120 MPH Serve

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
@IowaGuy You do realize who his opponent is on that video, right? Also, I played Matt. I kind of have first hand experience.

His opponent is excellent. Matt looks like a very good player as well, great groundies and movement.

But it seems to me that in that match Matt would be just as effective using all 2nd serves, as he basically gets no free points on his 1st serve. Therefore, his serve is not a weapon against that opponent. Not attackable, but also not a weapon.

Some ATP players (a few) are similar, they rely on their groundies without a serve for a weapon. Think Diego Schwartzman or early Michael Chang. Their goal is to get a high % 1st serve in, and start the rally from there.

Schwartzman, for example, against Tsitsipas in Barcelona 2018, got >80% of his 1st serves in, but won just over 50% of those points. Therefore, his serve was not a weapon against Tsitipas.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
A year later we will get a new thread, "I want a new shoulder".

120mph serve has to be natural. Your not going to muscle at that speed unless your really big

Op, you can get more core explosion on your serve. Get a weight and rotate your torso 9oclock to 3oclock and back. Thats where the power will come from.

I hit back to back 116mphs on those cheap radars that sit at net. Wasnt really worth it, with all the effort had a longer recoil and used much more energy. Probably more than half of my first serves are slice and kickers.

Power is only good with placement. Placement can be good without power.

I 100% agree.

If you hit 120mph serves, you should be able to hit 135-140mph serves if you really hit 100% all out.

I can't find it somewhere but Federer said he is hitting most of his serves with like 80-90% effort, because more than that will hurt his shoulder.

That would also make sense why sometimes a server can hit a really fast serve like 10-15mph over his average, probably because he went close to all out then.

I don't think any person in the world is able to serve 100% serves the whole match without his shoulder getting injured.
 

BallBag

Professional
Again, I'm not looking to consistently hit 120 in a match or practice. Right now my 100% is about 100 MPH. My fastest recorded serve is 102 MPH in a match (PlaySight). I believe that if I can improve my mechanics I will be able to hit faster and reduce injuries and also crank one out at 120 MPH once in a while.
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
I 100% agree.

If you hit 120mph serves, you should be able to hit 135-140mph serves if you really hit 100% all out.

I can't find it somewhere but Federer said he is hitting most of his serves with like 80-90% effort, because more than that will hurt his shoulder.

That would also make sense why sometimes a server can hit a really fast serve like 10-15mph over his average, probably because he went close to all out then.

I don't think any person in the world is able to serve 100% serves the whole match without his shoulder getting injured.
yes, and this is a good reason for a person to push hard to improve the top end speed of their serve....so they can back down 10% and still have an impressive serve.
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
You're right.
He should give up and never try.
It's impossible.
:rolleyes:
Yes...it is amazing how some will project their lack onto others. Most people would be shocked what they can do with some big goals and a bit of belief.

I'd say be careful listening to the folks telling you what you can't do and look to gain insight from those who share what CAN be done.
 

sredna42

Hall of Fame
Yes...it is amazing how some will project their lack onto others. Most people would be shocked what they can do with some big goals and a bit of belief.

I'd say be careful listening to the folks telling you what you can't do and look to gain insight from those who share what CAN be done.

"Aim at nothing and you will never miss"
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
Yes...it is amazing how some will project their lack onto others. Most people would be shocked what they can do with some big goals and a bit of belief.

I'd say be careful listening to the folks telling you what you can't do and look to gain insight from those who share what CAN be done.

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J
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
I'm willing to bet 1k us dollars that within 1 year op will not be able to hit 3 out of 6 serves at 120 in. Any takers? That's a 50% completion rate.
 

WildVolley

Legend
I'm willing to bet 1k us dollars that within 1 year op will not be able to hit 3 out of 6 serves at 120 in. Any takers? That's a 50% completion rate.

What sort of odds are you going to give?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that even a motivated rec player with decent athletic credentials is going to have extreme difficulty developing almost a professional level serve. The odds are against an older rec player even getting one legitimate 120 mph serve on video in say a full year period.

I'm also always amused at how everyone starts qualifying an already difficult task.

Rec Dude: I want to hit a 120 mph serve!
Poaster: It isn't a real 120 mph serve unless you can hit it in 80% of the time and with significant topspin.
Rec Dude: But I want to be able to hit a 120 mph serve.
Poaster: Anyone trying to hit a 120 mph serve should first learn how to hit a 130 mph flat serve and then only serve 120 with slice.
.... Etc. ....
 

v-verb

Hall of Fame
I've radared several people at my club. Only one has broken 100 mph ( a talented Junior player hit 105). Most of the "fast" servers were in the 90's - including a couple of 6'5" monsters). There's one guy who hits bombs but haven't radared him yet. But would be surprised if he is at 120.

So 120 is extremely rare at the recreational level. My goal is to hit 100. I've come close (98) but no cigar yet
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
His opponent is excellent. Matt looks like a very good player as well, great groundies and movement.

But it seems to me that in that match Matt would be just as effective using all 2nd serves, as he basically gets no free points on his 1st serve. Therefore, his serve is not a weapon against that opponent. Not attackable, but also not a weapon.

Some ATP players (a few) are similar, they rely on their groundies without a serve for a weapon. Think Diego Schwartzman or early Michael Chang. Their goal is to get a high % 1st serve in, and start the rally from there.

Schwartzman, for example, against Tsitsipas in Barcelona 2018, got >80% of his 1st serves in, but won just over 50% of those points. Therefore, his serve was not a weapon against Tsitipas.

ok, so you are suggesting that Matt's serve is 'ehh, acceptable but nothing to write home about' because those serves did not pose any major problems to Joseph DiGiulio? You know, the only #7 nationally ranked player on the recruiting list that very year? The Joseph that three months later after that match with Matt started playing singles for UCLA, a perennial powerhouse, posting a 18-9 singles record as a freshman? The Easter Bowl Singles Champion in the 16s? You expected that 5.0 player's serve is going to do what exactly against such player?
 
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jmnk

Hall of Fame
You're right.
He should give up and never try.
It's impossible.
:rolleyes:

Yes...it is amazing how some will project their lack onto others. Most people would be shocked what they can do with some big goals and a bit of belief.

I'd say be careful listening to the folks telling you what you can't do and look to gain insight from those who share what CAN be done.

first, you are misunderstanding my posts. By no means I'm discouraging OP from trying and practicing. In fact the opposite. I'm pointing out that hitting 120mph serve is such a rare feat that he should not get discourage if he is never able to do it. That there semi-pro players that have been practicing tennis hours a day since they were 5 years old and still can't do it.

Now, you can cite those motivational/inspirational cliches as much as you want - but the truth is that some tasks are just not achievable but everyone no matter how hard one tries. Whether it is tennis, science, art, whatever. And it is perfectly fine.
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
first, you are misunderstanding my posts. By no means I'm discouraging OP from trying and practicing. In fact the opposite. I'm pointing out that hitting 120mph serve is such a rare feat that he should not get discourage if he is never able to do it. That there semi-pro players that have been practicing tennis hours a day since they were 5 years old and still can't do it.

Now, you can cite those motivational/inspirational cliches as much as you want - but the truth is that some tasks are just not achievable but everyone no matter how hard one tries. Whether it is tennis, science, art, whatever. And it is perfectly fine.
One of my favorites...
Motivational stuff is fantasy. Seeing the current state of technical and age of poster it is obvious he won't reach 120.
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
What sort of odds are you going to give?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that even a motivated rec player with decent athletic credentials is going to have extreme difficulty developing almost a professional level serve. The odds are against an older rec player even getting one legitimate 120 mph serve on video in say a full year period.

I'm also always amused at how everyone starts qualifying an already difficult task.

Rec Dude: I want to hit a 120 mph serve!
Poaster: It isn't a real 120 mph serve unless you can hit it in 80% of the time and with significant topspin.
Rec Dude: But I want to be able to hit a 120 mph serve.
Poaster: Anyone trying to hit a 120 mph serve should first learn how to hit a 130 mph flat serve and then only serve 120 with slice.
.... Etc. ....
I said 3 out of 6 in. I guess I can give 2 to 1? So bet 500 and if you win you get 1k. If you lose the bet I win 500. Any takers?

Doesn't matter about spin rates. I'm talking 120mph in the box. 3 out of 6.
 

dennis

Semi-Pro
Bit of an obvious thing to say, but... OP you need to swing your racket a lot faster! I would work on that by working on just throwing, shadow swings, and hitting the ball as hard you can into the back fence from the adjacent baseline so you forget that you're 'serving' and incorporate those things into your serve motion.

RHS is the big deal, however the biggest technique issue to me can be seen at your contact point: take some screenshots of your contact point from your video and compare that to great servers; your left arm is already outside your body and your back is curved (to the left). Try making contact slightly more side on, see if that works
 
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IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
ok, so you are suggesting that Matt's serve is 'ehh, acceptable but nothing to write home about' because those serves did not pose any major problems to Joseph DiGiulio? You know, the only #7 nationally ranked player on the recruiting list that very year? The Joseph that three months later after that match with Matt started playing singles for UCLA, a perennial powerhouse, posting a 18-9 singles record as a freshman? The Easter Bowl Singles Champion in the 16s? You expected that 5.0 player's serve is going to do what exactly against such player?

Yes, it's a solid serve for 5.0, but not a weapon, IMHO. (Matt's bigger weapon is his groundies and movement)

I don't think most of the 5.0 players I know around here would struggle with it, though they wouldn't be able to attack it either. He might get a free point every couple of service games with it. Guys with a serve weapon often get 2-3 free points per game. YMMV...
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
Lets not get carried away with matt worship lol. High school Matt very solid beat up all tw players with few exceptions. Adult Matt not so much. Adult matt plays scrubs. Jolly easily beats adult matt as jolly plays actual tennis players currently. End of tw analysis.
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
first, you are misunderstanding my posts. By no means I'm discouraging OP from trying and practicing. In fact the opposite. I'm pointing out that hitting 120mph serve is such a rare feat that he should not get discourage if he is never able to do it. That there semi-pro players that have been practicing tennis hours a day since they were 5 years old and still can't do it.

Now, you can cite those motivational/inspirational cliches as much as you want - but the truth is that some tasks are just not achievable but everyone no matter how hard one tries. Whether it is tennis, science, art, whatever. And it is perfectly fine.
Well maybe you don't mean to be discouraging, but clearly it comes off that way, so maybe that means something to you or maybe not. Either way, you are making me feel sort of good, since I've never thought of myself as a big server but have hit just over 120 several yrs back. Also both of my sons and quite a few of my students have passed the 120 mark....so I guess we are a bit of an outlier type of group clumped around my coaching. I'm not sure if your right about that, but I'm good with it if you are. I'm just not seeing it as so remarkable from my sphere of influence. Now one thing is I'm not talking about averaging 120 or even hitting that on a regular basis, but more about a max. I was just out at the Ojai last weekend and did some work with a pro who has served in the low 130s many times, and serves regularly in the 120s, but I'm not sure even he would avg 120 on first serves.
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
Motivational stuff is fantasy. Seeing the current state of technical and age of poster it is obvious he won't reach 120.
I think you list several misunderstandings here that could be cleared up. Motivational stuff is clearly not just fantasy, lol and I have no idea where you would get that. The state of technical isn't that big of an issue unless you mean hitting 120 for a high percentage. Good tennis serve form is more about "making more" hard serves than it is about the ability to hit a certain speed. Technique is about giving power for hitting "in the court" but not about giving you max power. I don't know the posters age, but plenty of us have hit 120 in our 40s, so he didn't look older than that.

I don't remember, but maybe it was you....but the poster he was willing to bet he wouldn't hit 3 of 6 in the box at 120.....now that was likely a smart bet.
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
I think you list several misunderstandings here that could be cleared up. Motivational stuff is clearly not just fantasy, lol and I have no idea where you would get that. The state of technical isn't that big of an issue unless you mean hitting 120 for a high percentage. Good tennis serve form is more about "making more" hard serves than it is about the ability to hit a certain speed. Technique is about giving power for hitting "in the court" but not about giving you max power. I don't know the posters age, but plenty of us have hit 120 in our 40s, so he didn't look older than that.

I don't remember, but maybe it was you....but the poster he was willing to bet he wouldn't hit 3 of 6 in the box at 120.....now that was likely a smart bet.
Yeah that's my bet. Still waiting for people to take that bet. Lol.
 

speedysteve

Legend
Need to see your serve in slow motion to diagnose where more racquet head speed = power can come from.
Do you feel you could extend your chest and shoulder more when the racquet is reaching right back? You then get more power from your chest etc not relying so much on the arm.
Make sure you are not scratching the middle of your back. Keep the Racquet head down the same side of your back as you are handed e.g. right side.
Concentrate on extending right back stretching the rubber band, at first just firing the ball anywhere to start with. To get the power / ball speed up.
Measure that with your speed gun. If you can fire/spray then anywhere regularly at 120 after a reasonable amount of practise of the above, then you have a chance to dial them into the box.
Don't give up, build that muscle memory.

The above will also aid you in preventing arm / elbow issues.. it's helped me..
 

Kevo

Legend
you wouldn't happen to have a video of yourself cranking those 120mph serves, would you?
No, I've never had anyone video me. I did have a buddy that took some DSLR photos at one of my matches once. That's when I found out I do weird finger gestures with my left hand while serving. I've thought about getting a tripod setup of some kind when I get a new phone capable of decent slow motion footage. I think it would be useful for my classes, so I can justify doing it once I can actually get decent footage. I'll probably try and video some serves then.
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
No, I've never had anyone video me. I did have a buddy that took some DSLR photos at one of my matches once. That's when I found out I do weird finger gestures with my left hand while serving. I've thought about getting a tripod setup of some kind when I get a new phone capable of decent slow motion footage. I think it would be useful for my classes, so I can justify doing it once I can actually get decent footage. I'll probably try and video some serves then.
cool, no problem. you are not the first one that claims stuff and can't really provide any evidence. Not that I don't believe you, just saying.
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
Lets not get carried away with matt worship lol. High school Matt very solid beat up all tw players with few exceptions. Adult Matt not so much. Adult matt plays scrubs. Jolly easily beats adult matt as jolly plays actual tennis players currently. End of tw analysis.
well, Matt is actually now playing USTA league as well. I would actually take a bet that Jolly does not beat adult Matt, and definitely not easily.....
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
I've radared several people at my club. Only one has broken 100 mph ( a talented Junior player hit 105). Most of the "fast" servers were in the 90's - including a couple of 6'5" monsters). There's one guy who hits bombs but haven't radared him yet. But would be surprised if he is at 120.

So 120 is extremely rare at the recreational level. My goal is to hit 100. I've come close (98) but no cigar yet

what's more one can easily check ATP match stats from GrandSlam matches. You know, top ~200 players in the entire world that would probably give up a firstborn son to win a match. One would think that if a bunch of random dudes in some tennis club, them being over 40 years old and without a life-long tennis training, can crank those 120mph serves almost at will, that ATP professional would hit a 120mph at least once in a while during a match. And yet they don't, at least not all of them do. Surely they are either;
  1. going for placement over the speed, or
  2. saving the arm, or
  3. can't show their skills in an early rounds to surprise the opponent later, or
  4. possibly, perhaps, unlikely but maybe - they can't do it even if they try. Surely they could if they just 'believe', or learn some tips from TTW forum.
 

Kevo

Legend
cool, no problem. you are not the first one that claims stuff and can't really provide any evidence. Not that I don't believe you, just saying.

I don't believe a lot I read on the internet either. I tend to stay away from social media as well, so not big into putting pics and videos online. Anyway, you don't have to serve 120 to hit unreturnable serves either. I like to think like a pitcher when I serve. I serve four dimensionally and try to keep my opponents guessing. Hitting serves 100mph is plenty fast enough to hold serve easily, even playing 4.5 tennis if you mix them up well and pay attention to what the opponent's tendencies are. Having a top end around 120 makes it a lot easier to play around at 100mph. One of my favorite things is working the kicker so your opponent feels like they have to move in and take it early. Then once they start moving in you hit some flat around 105ish right into the body. Serving is fun.
 

Kevo

Legend
I've radared several people at my club. Only one has broken 100 mph ( a talented Junior player hit 105). Most of the "fast" servers were in the 90's - including a couple of 6'5" monsters). There's one guy who hits bombs but haven't radared him yet. But would be surprised if he is at 120.

So 120 is extremely rare at the recreational level. My goal is to hit 100. I've come close (98) but no cigar yet

First, how did you radar them? It makes a big difference as the ball slows down a lot as it travels over the net and bounces.

Second, it's true there aren't a lot of rec players that serve consistently over 100mph. It's also true that a lot of rec players don't know how to serve properly. And teaching a lot of adults is an exercise in losing your mind. A lot of them think they know it already. I tried in vain to try to get a couple of guys on our USTA team to stop foot faulting. You've probably run into this if you've played rec tennis. They swear they don't do it, even after you've convinced a couple other people to corroborate for you so it's not just one person they have to believe. I gave up calling foot faults in matches. You can watch grown men totally lose their mind by calling some foot faults.
 

sredna42

Hall of Fame
I'm willing to bet 1k us dollars that within 1 year op will not be able to hit 3 out of 6 serves at 120 in. Any takers? That's a 50% completion rate.
You didn't even read what he posted

Again, I'm not looking to consistently hit 120 in a match or practice. Right now my 100% is about 100 MPH. My fastest recorded serve is 102 MPH in a match (PlaySight). I believe that if I can improve my mechanics I will be able to hit faster and reduce injuries and also crank one out at 120 MPH once in a while.

Motivational stuff is fantasy. Seeing the current state of technical and age of poster it is obvious he won't reach 120.
IIRC you don't even actually play tennis, and yet you are here in an advice forum saying motivational tools are fantasy, despite being one of the most powerful aids to success there is, and screeching at someone trying to improve that they are too old/fat and that it is impossible.

Why are you even posting if you have no advice or nothing positive to add, and can't even play tennis anyway?

A textbook example of a toxic human, that I'd advise anyone wanting to improve in any area of their life to cut out like a cancer. Grima Wormtongue would be proud.

+1 to ignore list, life's too short to have this kind of AIDS in my eyeholes.
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
You didn't even read what he posted




IIRC you don't even actually play tennis, and yet you are here in an advice forum saying motivational tools are fantasy, despite being one of the most powerful aids to success there is, and screeching at someone trying to improve that they are too old/fat and that it is impossible.

Why are you even posting if you have no advice or nothing positive to add, and can't even play tennis anyway?

A textbook example of a toxic human, that I'd advise anyone wanting to improve in any area of their life to cut out like a cancer. Grima Wormtongue would be proud.

+1 to ignore list, life's too short to have this kind of AIDS in my eyeholes.
But could you also say how you _really _ feel about @rogerroger917? I don't think the above is conclusive enough...

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
well, Matt is actually now playing USTA league as well. I would actually take a bet that Jolly does not beat adult Matt, and definitely not easily.....

Lets not get carried away with matt worship lol. High school Matt very solid beat up all tw players with few exceptions. Adult Matt not so much. Adult matt plays scrubs. Jolly easily beats adult matt as jolly plays actual tennis players currently. End of tw analysis.
I have to agree with jmnk. Adult Maxi would not lose to Jolly. Jolly is solid computer 4.5 who practiced a lot and played a ton of matches to reach that level. Maxi is temporarily sandbagging as a self-rated 4.5 until he likely gets bumped up to 5.0 later this year, where he will probably stay for 20 years. I have nothing against Jolly - seems like a cool guy - but just going from the publicly available data on Jolly's record (along with my personal experience having spent 4 hours on court over 2 days playing singles points against Maxi), I conclude that Maxi's once-per-week level is still probably better than Jolly's 3x-per-week level.
 

sredna42

Hall of Fame
But could you also say how you _really _ feel about @rogerroger917? I don't think the above is conclusive enough...

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Don't even know the bloke. He's on ignore now anyway. Just anyone negative like that is a cancer to progress, and anyone looking to improve in anything should identify such types quickly and shut them off. Human termites.
 

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
I have to agree with jmnk. Adult Maxi would not lose to Jolly. Jolly is solid computer 4.5 who practiced a lot and played a ton of matches to reach that level. Maxi is temporarily sandbagging as a self-rated 4.5 until he likely gets bumped up to 5.0 later this year, where he will probably stay for 20 years. I have nothing against Jolly - seems like a cool guy - but just going from the publicly available data on Jolly's record (along with my personal experience having spent 4 hours on court over 2 days playing singles points against Maxi), I conclude that Maxi's once-per-week level is still probably better than Jolly's 3x-per-week level.
How did you do against Matt?
 

weelie

Professional
what's more one can easily check ATP match stats from GrandSlam matches. You know, top ~200 players in the entire world that would probably give up a firstborn son to win a match. One would think that if a bunch of random dudes in some tennis club, them being over 40 years old and without a life-long tennis training, can crank those 120mph serves almost at will, that ATP professional would hit a 120mph at least once in a while during a match. And yet they don't, at least not all of them do. Surely they are either;
  1. going for placement over the speed, or
  2. saving the arm, or
  3. can't show their skills in an early rounds to surprise the opponent later, or
  4. possibly, perhaps, unlikely but maybe - they can't do it even if they try. Surely they could if they just 'believe', or learn some tips from TTW forum.

A friend of mine said he was hitting serves to a radar and also our local pride Jarkko Nieminen (former ATP pro) hit a few, well over 125kmh. How is that... as he never did that in matches!? He said in matches, he never wanted to risk missing the 1st serve and it was placement over speed.

My serve is not that fast (I've only hit 100mph once on a radar). But for some time, I have not really focused on that. I am focusing on good form, good placement, disguise, set plays and percentage.
And, the 2nd serve instead of the 1st. It is the best feeling to have a 2nd serve that is reliable and troubling to opponents.

I play with several guys who serve harder than me. Measured top speeds of 105 to 118 mph. But, to me, it's more about placement and percentage. If they don't place the bombs well, I might get a racket and get an excellent return.
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
I have to agree with jmnk. Adult Maxi would not lose to Jolly. Jolly is solid computer 4.5 who practiced a lot and played a ton of matches to reach that level. Maxi is temporarily sandbagging as a self-rated 4.5 until he likely gets bumped up to 5.0 later this year, where he will probably stay for 20 years. I have nothing against Jolly - seems like a cool guy - but just going from the publicly available data on Jolly's record (along with my personal experience having spent 4 hours on court over 2 days playing singles points against Maxi), I conclude that Maxi's once-per-week level is still probably better than Jolly's 3x-per-week level.
I dont know jollys record. So im just speculating. I know max is pretending to be a 4.5. My guess is based on the fact that max plays players obviously at a much lower level than him. Has not played much. While jolly is a 5.0. Which people said on here. And trains and plays singled against other singles 5.0 players.
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
You didn't even read what he posted




IIRC you don't even actually play tennis, and yet you are here in an advice forum saying motivational tools are fantasy, despite being one of the most powerful aids to success there is, and screeching at someone trying to improve that they are too old/fat and that it is impossible.

Why are you even posting if you have no advice or nothing positive to add, and can't even play tennis anyway?

A textbook example of a toxic human, that I'd advise anyone wanting to improve in any area of their life to cut out like a cancer. Grima Wormtongue would be proud.

+1 to ignore list, life's too short to have this kind of AIDS in my eyeholes.
I also told the truth about pomo and 360 spin serve guy. If you have an aversion to reality and the truth I suppose you should ignore me. I'm also pretty certain I've played more tennis than you have. And still do. Just because I don't compete anymore doesn't mean I dont play tennis. Part of getting better as a tennis player is making objective tangeable goals as a player. Things you can reach. Watching ops serve he said he wants 120. Based on his age and technical skill level currently I say no way. Speaking truth is not negative. It is constructive.

As well, motivational thinking works on things that are within reach. Not dreaming of riding unicorns.

It is also very telling that you need to announce you are putting me in ignore. Did my post hit too close to home for you? What dream of yours was crushed by reality recently? On a tennis court and in life there is fantasy and grim truth. Both arenas you are fighting for survival in a sense. And the warrior that knows himself best without bias and delusion will be the victor in the long run.
 
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Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
There are lots of comments about NTRP 4.5 & 5.0 level players. I'd like to see a recent update of the number of players in these levels. The only thing that I have ever seen was the results of the big shake up of the levels in 2009. Many players in the 2.5 to 4.0 levels were moved up.

USTA NTRP 2009 major changes with table showing numbers at each level.
http://www.oahu.usta.com/News/6643750/

4.5 - 27,507 players at the end of 2009.

5.0 - 3,468 players at the end of 2009.

Anyone have any updates for 2018 numbers?

In our area around Baltimore some years after 2009 there were enough 4.5 players for a small 2-3 team league but other years there were not enough players.

Are there any USTA 5.0 Adult, 18 & Over leagues (2 singles & 3 doubles per team match)? There are 9.0 mixed doubles leagues. Other leagues for 5.0 ?

Same 2009 data with a story -
https://www.financialsamurai.com/some-things-money-cant-buy-a-usta-5-0-tennis-rating/
 
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J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
There are lots of comments about 4.5 & 5.0 level players. I'd like to see a recent update of the number of players in these levels. The only thing that I have ever seen was the results of the big shake up of the levels in 2009. Many players in the 2.5 to 4.0 levels were moved up.

USTA NTRP 2009 major changes with table showing numbers at each level.
http://www.oahu.usta.com/News/6643750/

I don't understand exactly what you are asking/why?

J
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
I don't understand exactly what you are asking/why?

J

I'd like to find some recent numbers of players at each NTRP level.

Unless the numbers have increased it appears that on average there may be about 100 5.0 players per state. Those kind of numbers make the 5.0 players rare and limit or eliminate USTA leagues. Singles play would be limited to tournaments I guess. ?
 
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J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
I'd like to find some recent numbers of players at each NTRP level.

Unless the numbers have increased it appears that on average there may be about 100 5.0 players per state. Those kind of numbers make the 5.0 players rare and limit or eliminate USTA leagues. Singles play would be limited to tournaments I guess. ?
http://tennisleaguestats.com will tell you by area if that helps?

J
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
How did you do against Matt?
On day 1 we split our time evenly between baseline games to 11 and playing sets. I won more baseline games (2-1), but Matt kicked my butt in the sets, 6-2, 6-1.

On day 2, Matt took the baseline games 2-1. We played one set - I still lost, but this time only 1 break difference, 6-3, and both of us played better level of tennis, and the set took almost hour and half due to many deuces. I had not touched racquet in 3 weeks before, so having day of hitting in helped.

matt’s forehand is much better than mine, but we were even in baseline game level as I have slight edges in backhand, court coverage, cardio, and rally patience. Matt’s serve was much better than mine, which was the difference during sets. He was smart to use his first serve to set up attack with forehand. And my serve coming off layoff was liability and I averaged 1-2 doubles per game. Half of the games I won were on Matt’s serve. My groundstroke game does not suffer as much as my serve when I take time time off, because it’s based on running more than skills.

I served and hit much better and more confidently in the vids against shroud ( no double faults at least) because I had already played twice against Matt earlier in week.
 

TennisCJC

Legend
I think you list several misunderstandings here that could be cleared up. Motivational stuff is clearly not just fantasy, lol and I have no idea where you would get that. The state of technical isn't that big of an issue unless you mean hitting 120 for a high percentage. Good tennis serve form is more about "making more" hard serves than it is about the ability to hit a certain speed. Technique is about giving power for hitting "in the court" but not about giving you max power. I don't know the posters age, but plenty of us have hit 120 in our 40s, so he didn't look older than that.

I don't remember, but maybe it was you....but the poster he was willing to bet he wouldn't hit 3 of 6 in the box at 120.....now that was likely a smart bet.

yea, my philosophy on serving is consistent with the above. I am a grump old guy and my stubborn view is if you cannot hit it in the box over 50% of the time in an actual league match or tourney, you don't even own the serve and it should be relegated to situational use such as when you are up 40-0. We've all been to pro tournaments and seen them serve live. To me, the average ATP pro 2nd serve is as good or better than top 4.5 level players. If I could hit Roger Federer's average 2nd serve, it would be a dominate force at my old man 4.0 level. Even at my young man 4.5 level, it would be a force that would give players all kinds of trouble on their returns.
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
yea, my philosophy on serving is consistent with the above. I am a grump old guy and my stubborn view is if you cannot hit it in the box over 50% of the time in an actual league match or tourney, you don't even own the serve and it should be relegated to situational use such as when you are up 40-0. We've all been to pro tournaments and seen them serve live. To me, the average ATP pro 2nd serve is as good or better than top 4.5 level players. If I could hit Roger Federer's average 2nd serve, it would be a dominate force at my old man 4.0 level. Even at my young man 4.5 level, it would be a force that would give players all kinds of trouble on their returns.
not sure if serious? If a 4.5 level player had a serve like an average ATP pro 2nd serve he would have never lost a serve. I'm clearly playing tennis at some USTA deficient location. Because the serve (or for that matter anything else except shorts\shirts perhaps) of 4.5 players in my area is nowhere near anything ATP pro does on the tennis court.
 

BallBag

Professional
Thank you to everybody that is continuing to provide feedback but I already have my marching orders. I addition to being old, fat and genetically deficient, I am also incapable of doing two things at the same time. I am going to be working on sliding my right foot closer to my left and then moving my toss forward for my first serve. Once I feel comfortable with those adjustments, I will post a progress video in super high def 3D IMAX and ask for further instructions.
I am happy to report that I have already accomplished the first step to serve improvement which is to ruin my existing serve. Progress should be imminent.

@rogerroger917 I have a strict policy against betting money over internet forums. How about $50 to the Roger Federer foundation instead. Three serves out of six. 120MPH+ and in the box. Speed recorded on a Playsight court. By April 30th 2019.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
...@rogerroger917 I have a strict policy against betting money over internet forums. How about $50 to the Roger Federer foundation instead. Three serves out of six. 120MPH+ and in the box. Speed recorded on a Playsight court. By April 30th 2019.
Might as well mail the check now...

I overheard Roger at Indian Wells earlier this year, "If I had $50 for every rec player who claims he can hit 120+ mph serves at 50%, I'd be Warren Buffet."
 

BallBag

Professional
Might as well mail the check now...

I overheard Roger at Indian Wells earlier this year, "If I had $50 for every rec player who claims he can hit 120+ mph serves at 50%, I'd be Warren Buffet."

LIES. Warren is worth over $80B. At $50 a pop that's 1.6B rec tennis players on the planet. You have been disgraced.
 
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