I want to go to Nationals ... just once

[dizzlmcwizzl]

In doing some research I have found that in order to go to Nationals the best approach is to take a team that is good and then add in 3 or 4 self rated - out - of - level players. Manage their matches and viola Nationals.

Here is the pitch ... my Delaware district 4.0 team has gone to sectionals the last two years and have been the 2nd or 3rd best team only to lose to a team of self rated - out - of - level players.

I play in a small district so making district playoffs is easy and making sectionals, while not guaranteed, is a good possibility ... especially if I can add in a former 26 year old D1 player who has recently taken his wife's name in marriage so he cannot be tracked.

SO here is the pitch ... If you are a man that lives within 100 miles of Delaware, are a 4.5 + but could self rate at 4.0 please contact me through the TT website. Heck even if you are a computer rated 4.0 that can play singles and has sandbagged the last couple seasons to be eligible please let me know.

 

[michael_1265]

In doing some research I have found that in order to go to Nationals the best approach is to take a team that is good and then add in 3 or 4 self rated - out - of - level players. Manage their matches and viola Nationals.

Here is the pitch ... my Delaware district 4.0 team has gone to sectionals the last two years and have been the 2nd or 3rd best team only to lose to a team of self rated - out - of - level players.

I play in a small district so making district playoffs is easy and making sectionals, while not guaranteed, is a good possibility ... especially if I can add in a former 26 year old D1 player who has recently taken his wife's name in marriage so he cannot be tracked.

SO here is the pitch ... If you are a man that lives within 100 miles of Delaware, are a 4.5 + but could self rate at 4.0 please contact me through the TT website. Heck even if you are a computer rated 4.0 that can play singles and has sandbagged the last couple seasons to be eligible please let me know.

I'm a 3.5, and last night over the course of two sets of singles against a much better player, I hit three shots that could fairly be described as "4.5 shots". Can I be on your team?????? In the spirit of full disclosure, over the same period, I also hit six shots that could be accurately attributed to a 2.5 player........

What you really need is my regular hitting partner. He is a 48 yo former Div 1 player who played one fall season of mixed last year and holds a 4.0 rating. He took that rating under the advice of a captain, and when he starts playing men's singles (he has a busy job, but I think he wants to do it next spring) he is going to deliver a lot of pain.

 

[J_R_B]

I'm not a sandbagger, but if you're going to nationals, can I be on your team?

Oh, and rather than looking here, keep track of the local high schools and recruit the best HS seniors (and older juniors). They're the ones with no NTRP guidelines between 3.5 and 5.5.

 

[decades]

most people keep their sandbagging on the down lo. You? You come right out and proclaim it proudly and without shame. This is commendable.

 

[AtomicForehand]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm kinda shocked by the OP.

OK, quite shocked actually.

 

[OrangePower]

In doing some research I have found that in order to go to Nationals the best approach is to take a team that is good and then add in 3 or 4 self rated - out - of - level players. Manage their matches and viola Nationals.

Here is the pitch ... my Delaware district 4.0 team has gone to sectionals the last two years and have been the 2nd or 3rd best team only to lose to a team of self rated - out - of - level players.

I play in a small district so making district playoffs is easy and making sectionals, while not guaranteed, is a good possibility ... especially if I can add in a former 26 year old D1 player who has recently taken his wife's name in marriage so he cannot be tracked.

SO here is the pitch ... If you are a man that lives within 100 miles of Delaware, are a 4.5 + but could self rate at 4.0 please contact me through the TT website. Heck even if you are a computer rated 4.0 that can play singles and has sandbagged the last couple seasons to be eligible please let me know.

The good ol' days of 4.0,
how I long for thee...
Then I was the butt-kicker,
Now the butt-kickee

Mid-level 4.5 singles player here... Can easily re-rate as a 4.0 under my middle name in an area where no-one knows me... problem is I'm in CA - if I guarantee you a win at #1 singles come districts and sectionals, will you fly me in?!?

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

most people keep their sandbagging on the down lo. You? You come right out and proclaim it proudly and without shame. This is commendable.

To be fair ... I am not the one sandbagging. I just want to recruit other sandbaggers. :twisted:

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

The good ol' days of 4.0,
how I long for thee...
Then I was the butt-kicker,
Now the butt-kickee

Mid-level 4.5 singles player here... Can easily re-rate as a 4.0 under my middle name in an area where no-one knows me... problem is I'm in CA - if I guarantee you a win at #1 singles come districts and sectionals, will you fly me in?!?

1st ... Some questions

Are we talking ... frontier airllines, southwest or delta?

Do you need a first class ticket?

 

[OrangePower]

1st ... Some questions

Are we talking ... frontier airllines, southwest or delta?

Do you need a first class ticket?

I am not fussy regarding travel arrangements. I do however require a personal assistant, to ensure that my water bottles are lined up just right pre-match...

 

[jonnyjack]

This is why USTA needs to ban self-rates starting with playoffs and beyond and also require 4 or 5 matches minimum to get a computer rating. If people are willing to sandbag a year to get that computer rating to make a run, then whatever, at least they have to pay for two years of fees to do it.

Cheaters gonna cheat!

 

[aceroberts13]

In doing some research I have found that in order to go to Nationals the best approach is to take a team that is good and then add in 3 or 4 self rated - out - of - level players. Manage their matches and viola Nationals.

Here is the pitch ... my Delaware district 4.0 team has gone to sectionals the last two years and have been the 2nd or 3rd best team only to lose to a team of self rated - out - of - level players.

I play in a small district so making district playoffs is easy and making sectionals, while not guaranteed, is a good possibility ... especially if I can add in a former 26 year old D1 player who has recently taken his wife's name in marriage so he cannot be tracked.

SO here is the pitch ... If you are a man that lives within 100 miles of Delaware, are a 4.5 + but could self rate at 4.0 please contact me through the TT website. Heck even if you are a computer rated 4.0 that can play singles and has sandbagged the last couple seasons to be eligible please let me know.

Or, you could practice.

 

[goober]

Mid-level 4.5 singles player here... Can easily re-rate as a 4.0 under my middle name in an area where no-one knows me... problem is I'm in CA - if I guarantee you a win at #1 singles come districts and sectionals, will you fly me in?!?

That is a pretty big guarantee. Here are some 4.0 players that you could see in nationals

26 year old ex D1 player. He has a losing record at D1 but has won matches at this level in both singles and doubles playing at a low level D1 school. He has a "C" rating and cannot be DQ or file a grievance against.

Late 20s/early 30s former Junior Davis Cup player from a western European Country. They are trying to hide him out in doubles. To be fair to him, he is not hiding his background and the captain is win at all cost so he probably doesn't really understand the USTA system.

 

[J_R_B]

Or, you could practice.

Actually dizz has been practicing. Check his threads in the Tips/Instruction section. He's not the problem. He's an elite 4.0, especially in doubles, due to improving steadily over the last 5 years, not sandbagging. He just needs to add a couple more people his caliber quickly (i.e. without the 5 years of improving part). He was bumped in early ratings and then bumped back down in year-end, so this is his last year in 4.0.

 

[J_R_B]

That is a pretty big guarantee. Here are some 4.0 players that you could see in nationals

26 year old ex D1 player. He has a losing record at D1 but has won matches at this level in both singles and doubles playing at a low level D1 school. He has a "C" rating and cannot be DQ or file a grievance against.

Late 20s/early 30s former Junior Davis Cup player from a western European Country. They are trying to hide him out in doubles. To be fair to him, he is not hiding his background and the captain is win at all cost so he probably doesn't really understand the USTA system.

We had a guy in the league at 4.0 last year who was an active D1 player at 5 & 6 singles for a low level D1 team. He was on 2 teams in 2 different sections, and lost the deciding court that eliminated his team from districts in both sections. The college had an unbelievable recruiting year, though, and now has 3 freshmen in the top 4 (including the #1 rated HS player in Philadelphia last year), so he lost his singles spot (but still plays doubles).

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

Or, you could practice.

Lets not get carried away ... Quite frankly I am looking for the easiest road to Nationals ...

I don't want to have to put in more work ... I just want to recruit some illegal players that can carry me on their backs.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

That is a pretty big guarantee. Here are some 4.0 players that you could see in nationals

26 year old ex D1 player. He has a losing record at D1 but has won matches at this level in both singles and doubles playing at a low level D1 school. He has a "C" rating and cannot be DQ or file a grievance against.

Late 20s/early 30s former Junior Davis Cup player from a western European Country. They are trying to hide him out in doubles. To be fair to him, he is not hiding his background and the captain is win at all cost so he probably doesn't really understand the USTA system.

These are the guys I want ... do you know their names ... are they willing to travel to Delaware? Now we are cooking with gasoline.

 

[Nostradamus]

I'm a 3.5, and last night over the course of two sets of singles against a much better player, I hit three shots that could fairly be described as "4.5 shots". Can I be on your team?????? In the spirit of full disclosure, over the same period, I also hit six shots that could be accurately attributed to a 2.5 player........

What you really need is my regular hitting partner. He is a 48 yo former Div 1 player who played one fall season of mixed last year and holds a 4.0 rating. He took that rating under the advice of a captain, and when he starts playing men's singles (he has a busy job, but I think he wants to do it next spring) he is going to deliver a lot of pain.

i don't quite get this. What possible fun would there be for that former D1 player to play these 4.0 guys ? He will sometimes have to play bottom dwelling teams and it would be more than a blowout. So you go out there with 2-3 hours of your busy life planed out for tennis and workout and you don't get either. At least in my opinion.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

i don't quite get this. What possible fun would there be for that former D1 player to play these 4.0 guys ? He will sometimes have to play bottom dwelling teams and it would be more than a blowout. So you go out there with 2-3 hours of your busy life planed out for tennis and workout and you don't get either. At least in my opinion.

^^^^

Now dont throw water on my game plan here. The way I figure it this yet unknown player would only have to play 1 or 2 BS matches before he would get to play the other ringers.

All I want is for him to play 1 match in the regular season. Assuming we get a default at some point he will be legal for playoffs. Then this as of yet unknown player could swoop in when he would get to play the best of the 4.0 ranks ... 2 matches against the best of 4.0.

Now of course these players would not pose much of a threat to my new star ... but then at sectionals he would get to play the other self rated out of level players and give me (er I mean us) a fighting chance.

Really it is only one or two matches against weaklings to qualify and then he gets good matches.

 

[Nostradamus]

^^^those plates they give out, are they real silver ?

 

[AtomicForehand]

Umm...shouldn't the mods be banning this thread? And the OP?

 

[andfor]

4.0 national qualifier will need at least two 5.0's to have a shot a winning.
4.5 national qualifier will need at least two 5.5's to have a shot a winning.
5.0 national qualifier will need at least two 6.0+'s to have a shot a winning.

 

[maggmaster]

The above is a joke right? That sucks if it is true.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

The above is a joke right? That sucks if it is true.

No ... if you aint got ringers ... you aint got a chance.

 

[floridatennisdude]

No ... if you aint got ringers ... you aint got a chance.

Umm...shouldn't the mods be banning this thread? And the OP?

Why? For speaking the truth?

Dizzle may or may not be actually doing this. However, it is the black eye of league tennis...that these types of things are actually happening. Takesa lot of fun out of the game for those that are looking for competitive matches and end up playing a former touring pro.

 

[okdude1992]

good too know that as a mediocre 5.0 I would be sought after for 4.0 league. Hmmm i'll have to see what the local teams are prepared to offer :twisted: lol

 

[g4driver]

dizzlmcwizzl,

This is the best post on this forum I have ever read.

At least you are upfront and honest about exploiting the pathetic USTA self-rating system.

I wish you the best! Maybe you will win a National Title at 4.0, then post a two minute video on YouTube explaining how you exploiting the USTA system to win a title and prove their self-rating system is an epic failure.

I know a former Division I guy in DC (5.0 easily), who isn't playing USTA and could self-rate at 4.0. Wish he was closer to you.

For everyone asking the mods to ban this post, think about how much good he is really doing everyone else. For crying out loud, this guy is doing what the real cheaters do, but don't say it. Granted the title would be stripped from him if the told the USTA what he did and be banned from USTA for a while, but maybe then, just maybe the USTA would get off their @$$ and fix this problem.

There is D3 guy playing on a 4.0 team in my area, and while he helped his team to the playoffs, he won't go far, because their are plenty of D1 guys at state and districts waiting for him, therefore Captains just accept the pathetic USTA system and have fun in league play.

Hey any USTA officials, you getting what he is laying down? Crickets. Just criskets. That right, turn your backs and ignore the issue.

 

[J_R_B]

i don't quite get this. What possible fun would there be for that former D1 player to play these 4.0 guys ? He will sometimes have to play bottom dwelling teams and it would be more than a blowout. So you go out there with 2-3 hours of your busy life planed out for tennis and workout and you don't get either. At least in my opinion.

You have to manage these people correctly. You're not going to have a whole entire team of ringers, so let the regular team beat the bottom dwellers and show up with the ringer lineup in the 2 or 3 key matches of the season.

 

[g4driver]

most people keep their sandbagging on the down lo. You? You come right out and proclaim it proudly and without shame. This is commendable.

That is the truth. dizzlmcwizzl is honest about it.

If you are a 5.0 near Delaware, and can, I would love to see his team roll into to Nationals and see the result. My guess is even if he makes it there, there are so many college players on 4.0 teams, they won't win. That is what makes this idea even more intriguing to me.

 

[Ronaldo]

These are the guys I want ... do you know their names ... are they willing to travel to Delaware? Now we are cooking with gasoline.

This plan may blow-up in your face. Only know of one team locally that won Nat'ls at 4.5. The rest of us got there only once, twice or three times the past twenty yrs. It is not cheap, some teams cannot afford to go.

 

[goober]

Why? For speaking the truth?

Dizzle may or may not be actually doing this. However, it is the black eye of league tennis...that these types of things are actually happening. Takesa lot of fun out of the game for those that are looking for competitive matches and end up playing a former touring pro.

Well I am sure this thread is all tongue in cheek (I hope), but there is a problem is three parts as I see it.

1) USTA not enforcing its own guidelines or at best inconsistently enforcing them. Too many people get through the cracks and know how to manipulate the system.

2) There are gaping holes in the guidelines. Between 3.5 and 5.5 all kinds of high level players can legitimately self rate and this is where most of league tennis is played

3) IMO the USTA encourages this behavior by spotlighting certain captains. One of the Captains had a published piece on him because he has gone to Nationals so many times. Not surprisingly he is one of the worst offenders out there in working the system and crossing ethical boundaries. Everybody in the league knows it except those handing out awards.

 

[g4driver]

Goober, that is because the USTA does not give a rat's @$$ about players following the rules.

As long as you "don't talk about Fight Club", the USAT doesn't care.

I wish him the best. Every year it is the same Captian's exploited the system with self rated players who are managed. They play no more than 2 /3 singles matches and only when needed against legit teams. Other times they are hiding out in doubles where the DNTRP are averaged with a weaker partner.

bottomline: the USTA does not care unless the press is hot and the opposing teams has a lot of proof. Even then it is wristslaps from the USTA, never a fix.

Cheaters going cheat. Why not if the system allows it?

 

[J_R_B]

This plan may blow-up in your face. Only know of one team locally that won Nat'ls at 4.5. The rest of us got there only once, twice or three times the past twenty yrs. It is not cheap, some teams cannot afford to go.

The DE 4.5 team won nationals last year.

 

[OrangePower]

That is a pretty big guarantee. Here are some 4.0 players that you could see in nationals

26 year old ex D1 player. He has a losing record at D1 but has won matches at this level in both singles and doubles playing at a low level D1 school. He has a "C" rating and cannot be DQ or file a grievance against.

Late 20s/early 30s former Junior Davis Cup player from a western European Country. They are trying to hide him out in doubles. To be fair to him, he is not hiding his background and the captain is win at all cost so he probably doesn't really understand the USTA system.

Hehe. I don't guarantee wins at Nationals

Does make you wonder though what these players get out of playing 4.0.

 

[Nostradamus]

Hehe. I don't guarantee wins at Nationals

Does make you wonder though what these players get out of playing 4.0.

That is my point. so these guys got little silver plate that saids they won the nationals at 4.0 level. So What ? what kind of pride do you take from that, when you know you are really 4.5 or 5.0 level. JP Mcenroe comes down and wins the Nationals at 4.5 level, do you think he would say "ohhhh, i am so happy with this win, i will keep this plate right next to my Wimbledon trophy". :???:

 

[OrangePower]

Dizzle may or may not be actually doing this. However, it is the black eye of league tennis...that these types of things are actually happening. Takesa lot of fun out of the game for those that are looking for competitive matches and end up playing a former touring pro.

Sure, this kinda stuff happens. But really, at the end of the day, I don't care. In my area, we get between 10-14 regular season matches per season. Most of these are competitive and fun, since the ringers don't come out in full force until the postseason. Even then, I don't mind the occassional beatdown to a freshly graduated D1 player - it's a good reminder of how much I suck! So if you accept that you have no chance in the postseason, and just enjoy the regular season for what it is, then let the cheaters cheat away. True, this robs people like Dizzle of any chance of making nationals, but really that's a hollow achievement anyway.

Many years ago I actually played in a large league where there was no postseason, only divisions that you would get promoted/demoted into at the end of each season for the next season. Kinda like British league soccer. Since there was no postseason, there was no incentive to sandbag - the only incentive was to find your right level so that you get competitive matches.

 

[North]

Many years ago I actually played in a large league where there was no postseason, only divisions that you would get promoted/demoted into at the end of each season for the next season. Kinda like British league soccer. Since there was no postseason, there was no incentive to sandbag - the only incentive was to find your right level so that you get competitive matches.

I have heard of that sort of thing. If the USTA adopted that system, it would be the best thing they've, well, EVER done.

 

[gameboy]

Playoff for artificial levels always baffled me. If not for sandbagging, all it proves is that you are lucky to be where you are placed at the top of the particular level instead of bottom of the next level.

I am happy to let the people who care about such meaningless thing to fight amongst themselves. Couldn't care less about going to the Nationals.

 

[AtomicForehand]

That is my point. so these guys got little silver plate that saids they won the nationals at 4.0 level. So What ? what kind of pride do you take from that, when you know you are really 4.5 or 5.0 level. JP Mcenroe comes down and wins the Nationals at 4.5 level, do you think he would say "ohhhh, i am so happy with this win, i will keep this plate right next to my Wimbledon trophy". :???:

This. Thank you.

DOWN WITH 'BAGGERS!

 

[J_R_B]

Playoff for artificial levels always baffled me. If not for sandbagging, all it proves is that you are lucky to be where you are placed at the top of the particular level instead of bottom of the next level.

I am happy to let the people who care about such meaningless thing to fight amongst themselves. Couldn't care less about going to the Nationals.

I certainly realize that it's totally meaningless in the bigger picture, but the competition is fun nonetheless. That's what everyone is playing for.

 

[floridatennisdude]

Sure, this kinda stuff happens. But really, at the end of the day, I don't care. In my area, we get between 10-14 regular season matches per season. Most of these are competitive and fun, since the ringers don't come out in full force until the postseason. Even then, I don't mind the occassional beatdown to a freshly graduated D1 player - it's a good reminder of how much I suck! So if you accept that you have no chance in the postseason, and just enjoy the regular season for what it is, then let the cheaters cheat away. True, this robs people like Dizzle of any chance of making nationals, but really that's a hollow achievement anyway.

Many years ago I actually played in a large league where there was no postseason, only divisions that you would get promoted/demoted into at the end of each season for the next season. Kinda like British league soccer. Since there was no postseason, there was no incentive to sandbag - the only incentive was to find your right level so that you get competitive matches.

As usual, totally agree with you. I don't mind the occasional beating either. It's just shameful that the captains do exist that have to feed their egos at others expense. But, that's life. I respect the heck out of Dizzle for posting this on an open forum. Made me giggle the first time I read it.

 

[floridatennisdude]

I have heard of that sort of thing. If the USTA adopted that system, it would be the best thing they've, well, EVER done.

The only good thing that comes out of nationals is that it does attempt to rate players evenly across the country. Since all players are competing to get the same thing, the stronger players can ultimately be judged how they would perform against players that win districts/sections/nationals.

We all know that ntrp is a joke, but it does get you in the ballpark as to how you will fare against players from other parts of the country.

 

[jmverdugo]

If you are surprised or upset about this thread the you have not played USTA league enough. I know guys that could be 4.5 easily and still play as 3.5C in mixed.

 

[g4driver]

All I want is the USTA to address it and stop it. Is that really too much to ask? Three years straight of this crap is getting old for me personally. Banning self-rated players from playoffs is an perfect way to start.

Our team has a blast regardless of what some teams do, and that is the most important thing to our team. Having a team goal of going to state is something to shoot for, and might encourage teammates to practice more.

But it does suck to go to a court and play some guy who has clearly misrepresented himself in his self-rating. Really what is the point with the NTRP system? To have competitive matches? So if I walk on the court only to find a guy rated two levels below his actual skill level, I am suppose to shrug my shoulders and say "Oh well."? If my teammates want to get their @$$ kicked, they can hit against 4.5 and 5.0s on their own time. Do we really need to do it unscheduled?

The most glaring misrated player self-rated at 3.5 last year in my division went unbeaten through Men's 3.5 at State, and he played on the same Captain's 3.5 Single's Team with at least two 3.5S players. Yeah, they won SC State 3.5 Men's Singles. So in Dec 2011, the guy is bumped to 4.0. This year he is 5-1 at 4.0 singles, and 6-1 overall. My guess is bumped again, but hey it only took the USTA two years to get it right. Nice job USTA!

 

[Ronaldo]

The OP should enjoy the process of getting to sectionals and attempting to improve your team. It took our team 5 yrs. Getting to Nationals usually means the end of your team playing together again unless you decide to move up.

 

[jmnk]

[...]

Many years ago I actually played in a large league where there was no postseason, only divisions that you would get promoted/demoted into at the end of each season for the next season. Kinda like British league soccer. Since there was no postseason, there was no incentive to sandbag - the only incentive was to find your right level so that you get competitive matches.

I have heard of that sort of thing. If the USTA adopted that system, it would be the best thing they've, well, EVER done.

well, not really. It would be no different than it is now -except instead of incentive of a playoff you have an incentive of advancing to the higher level. Plus, what is the level of the 'highest level'? Pro? Div1?

The truth is that there's nothing USTA or anything can do to stop people from cheating. there's no system that you can design to make it always fair.

Let's say they decide not to allow non-computer rated players from competing in post-season. That makes 90% of honest players unhappy because they can't play in post season in a season they joined. So you sacrifice those 90% of honest dudes to punish 10% dishonest.

Even with that, if one wants, is it really that hard to play below your true level to earn computer rating for the next season? How is one to judge if one's 8-6 record at 4.0 level is because a player is really pretty decent 4.0 player, or because he is 5.5 level skilfully losing matches on purpose.

there's just no way to do anything.

i remember one time in local non-USTA tournament for essentially self-taught hacks we have had a player signed that turned out to be like 5 years removed from professional (very low level but still) circuit. When asked he said he is amateur because he has not played pro in 5 years. well, true, so is Sampras I suppose. We have collected some money among ourselves, gave him the entrance fee back, gave him the first place prize, made a mock winner celebration, and went on to play without him. Let's just say he never signed again.....

 

[J_R_B]

But it does suck to go to a court and play some guy who has clearly misrepresented himself in his self-rating. Really what is the point with the NTRP system? To have competitive matches? So if I walk on the court only to find a guy rated two levels below his actual skill level, I am suppose to shrug my shoulders and say "Oh well."? If my teammates want to get their @$$ kicked, they can hit against 4.5 and 5.0s on their own time. Do we really need to do it unscheduled?

I wish I had 5.0 level players I could just call up to hit against. LOL.

 

[g4driver]

My comments are in red, replying to jmnk.

The truth is that there's nothing USTA or anything can do to stop people from cheating. there's no system that you can design to make it always fair. Yes, there is something they can do. They can stop allowing self-rated player into playoffs.

Let's say they decide not to allow non-computer rated players from competing in post-season. That makes 90% of honest players unhappy because they can't play in post season in a season they joined. So you sacrifice those 90% of honest dudes to punish 10% dishonest.

Just keep pulling those stat out of your rear-end. The fact is 90% of honest self-rating players will NOT make the playoffs, nor will 90% of Computer rated honest players. The small percentage that might get punished is the honest self-rated players on a good team. Hardly 90% of the playing population, more like 5% of the playing population. Ten teams, with 12 players each. 120 players. If each team has two self-rated players, that is 20 S-rated players. Top two teams to the playoff, maybe top four teams, and maybe eight self-rated players stay home, out of 120 players. 6.7% if of the honest self-rated players stay home in my example, compared to 90% of the population being punished in your world.

However, a very high percentage of the Captain's who recruit and stack their teams with folks two levels below their accurate NTRP currently make the playoffs. 90% of honest players will not see the playoffs, Self-rate or Computer Rated. Your comment on this topic is simply off the mark.

Even with that, if one wants, is it really that hard to play below your true level to earn computer rating for the next season? How is one to judge if one's 8-6 record at 4.0 level is because a player is really pretty decent 4.0 player, or because he is 5.5 level skilfully losing matches on purpose.

there's just no way to do anything.

Dude, look up a male player "Drxx Bexxxxx" in SC. Search "Name Starts With" on the iPhone App. Am I calling him out? Yep. I am indeed. I am calling a spade a spade. He was a self-rated 3.5 last year, along with six of his teammates. Four of the six self-rated players were bumped to 4.0. He is computer rated 4.0 this year and IMO he will be bumped to 4.5 next year. It is very easy to sandbag two levels lower than your actual NTRP where I play.

Don't go getting all pissy with me because I called out a sandbagger. You say it can't be fixed. While true, cheaters will always cheat, the USTA makes it so easy, it is laughable. Banning self-rated player from the play-offs would minimum affect on honest self-rated players, while having a great affect on honest computer rated players who don't make playoffs due to Captains and players who manipulated the system. My friend's 3.5 team would have made the playoffs two years straight had the USTA banned self-rated players from post-season. The current system punishes the honest computer rated players while giving some false sense of hope to honest self-rated players.

I say flip that switch and let the honest computer rated players have their day. It really is that simple.

 

[g4driver]

I wish I had 5.0 level players I could just call up to hit against. LOL.

Want to call me on it? Please PM me or you can call him and ask him. I will be happy to give you his name and mine.

 

[goober]

well, not really. It would be no different than it is now -except instead of incentive of a playoff you have an incentive of advancing to the higher level. Plus, what is the level of the 'highest level'? Pro? Div1?....

Don't understand this line of reasoning. Why would someone sandbag to advance to a higher level? Nationals are a goal unto themselves. Actually if they got rid of sectionals and Nationals and the only thing that playing well got you was bumped to next level that would take care of most of the sandbaggers right there.

The truth is that there's nothing USTA or anything can do to stop people from cheating. there's no system that you can design to make it always fair.

There's plenty they can do. If you simply throw up your hands and say nothing can be done, then why bother having any rules at all? Make penalties severe as a deterrent. Make clear self rate guidelines and actually enforce them. Benchmark player in sectionals and nationals for a minimum number of years so they can't come back down and join their team after sitting out a season.

Let's say they decide not to allow non-computer rated players from competing in post-season. That makes 90% of honest players unhappy because they can't play in post season in a season they joined. So you sacrifice those 90% of honest dudes to punish 10% dishonest.

Actually it wouldn't because only 20% or so of teams make playoffs in the first place so the number of self rates affected would be no where near 90%. Also if the rule is made clear before you sign up, then you have a choice or not whether to join the league. I bet almost all self rated players would still join a team if they were told beforehand if the team goes to playoffs, they would not play.

Even with that, if one wants, is it really that hard to play below your true level to earn computer rating for the next season? How is one to judge if one's 8-6 record at 4.0 level is because a player is really pretty decent 4.0 player, or because he is 5.5 level skilfully losing matches on purpose.

True, if someone is willing to go through a whole year to get a C rating and is willing to lose matches on purpose to do so, there is not much you can do. However I am willing to take my chances with that system because only a very small number of people I would wager would be wiling to do this.

 

[michael_1265]

i don't quite get this. What possible fun would there be for that former D1 player to play these 4.0 guys ? He will sometimes have to play bottom dwelling teams and it would be more than a blowout. So you go out there with 2-3 hours of your busy life planed out for tennis and workout and you don't get either. At least in my opinion.

He really had no idea when he rated. He was busy, and took someone else's advice. Also, he had not picked up a racquet in a long time. I keep telling him that he is going to be disappointed at 4.0. Many of those guys are not that much better than me. I have a feeling he might just decide to play 4.5 when he jumps back in. Like most places, though, the numbers decrease greatly at that level, making it harder to find a team.