Idea for those who need cheap lessons

E46luver

E46luver

Professional
Need cheaper lessons?
Create a personal development game plan
and pay a tennis buddy who is looking for side income

One of my 3.5 hitting partners is a tennis junkie. He has started giving lessons to 2.5 & 3.0 players
I have decided to support him and take lessons with him (in addition to my costly lessons with D2 coach)

I am beyond stroke mechanics in terms of pure drilling with easy feeds, so I can use him to drills certain shots:
Overheads, volleys, approach shots, serve return drills.

I will get cheap lessons, and he gets more experience while getting paid.
It's a win/win. Great way to get some volume reps at half cost
 
How much is he charging ? Can't see why a 2.5/3.0 would pay for lessons from a 3.5 player unless its dirt cheap.
 
A serious 3.5 can give great lessons to someone who knows nothing about tennis.
And it's half the cost
 
E46luver said:
A serious 3.5 can give great lessons to someone who knows nothing about tennis.
And it's half the cost
Click to expand...
I love the idea, but I would expect 4.0 or 4.5 to be the minimum, and/or pay about quarter for that low of a playing level.
 
Again, it all depends on your needs.

Most untrained tennis players have no idea how to even hold the racket.
They hit backhands with the same side of the strings as the FH.
For them, a 3.5 can be a revelation and a great value.

For me, I don't need feedback, I need volume on certain drills.
 
Anyone can teach a stroke. Just watch some YouTube videos. What separates a good coach and a bad one is how efficiently they can correct an error.
Sounds like you are using him as a ball machine. So don't call him a coach if he is not one.
Ask yourself this question ... if he gives you a suggestion, do you have confidence in what he is telling you? A coach inspires confidence when he himself can produce the strokes.
 
Yes, the 3.5 will correct errors for the rank beginner.
He is a certified coach and a tennis junkie who has watched thousands of YouTube videos for his own game.

Part of coaching is being a ball machine. Reps, reps, reps!
A ball machine can never feed as dynamically as a human.
 
There was a weekend warrior coach ( he looked about a 3.5)in the high school I played at. I saw the same students took lessons from him. Two years passed, the students improved very little. The guy even had a ball machine feeding the kids.

When I look for a coach for my kid, efficiency is a major criteria I look for. Don't mind paying more if the right advice is given that leads to quick improvement.

Like you said, adult beginners have low ceilings, this 3.5 coach is a way to save some cash while learning the game.
 
There is no such thing as quick improvement.

You need a high level coach to identify stroke correction. 1 hour.
Then you need a feeder coach to do 10,000 reps of said correction. 10 hours.
Then repeat the cycle

I personally have employed a 3-tier system of coaches in order to maximize value and efficiency.
ex-ATP/WTA for high level concepts, then ex-college for supervised feedback, and then local park coach for unsupervised rep volume.
Optimal ratio is 1:3:7
 
I think it's a great idea to have serious 3.5/4.0 players coaching beginners. Beginners really just need to learn how to rally and some basic stroke mechanics. You don't need a former D1 to show you that.
 
beltsman said:
I think it's a great idea to have serious 3.5/4.0 players coaching beginners. Beginners really just need to learn how to rally and some basic stroke mechanics. You don't need a former D1 to show you that.
Click to expand...

In fact, that is the logic behind the USPTA Recreational Coach category, to be called Tennis Instructor from next year (new thing is background check and Safeplay requirements). The category is for coaching 2.5 and 3.0 players (beginners and low intermediates, as they put it).
 
E46luver said:
There is no such thing as quick improvement.

You need a high level coach to identify stroke correction. 1 hour.
Then you need a feeder coach to do 10,000 reps of said correction. 10 hours.
Then repeat the cycle
Click to expand...

11 hrs to correct a stroke is quick improvement in my books. But most likely, the feeder coach won't have the eye to correct your strokes and you end up practicing 10 hrs of bad strokes and cement the error even more.
 
giantschwinn said:
11 hrs to correct a stroke is quick improvement in my books. But most likely, the feeder coach won't have the eye to correct your strokes and you end up practicing 10 hrs of bad strokes and cement the error even more.
Click to expand...
That’s what happens, but you get better with your bad technique the more you groove it. Then you wonder why some days you’re “on” and some days “off”.
 
beltsman said:
I think it's a great idea to have serious 3.5/4.0 players coaching beginners. Beginners really just need to learn how to rally and some basic stroke mechanics. You don't need a former D1 to show you that.
Click to expand...

Yes, and they can get triple the number of private lessons for the same cost.
2.5 don't need Federer to show what Conti grip is
 
For 4.0 player, whats the difference between an ex-ATP/WTA coach and ex-college coach? Assuming ex-college players can coach.
 
ptuanminh said:
For 4.0 player, whats the difference between an ex-ATP/WTA coach and ex-college coach? Assuming ex-college players can coach.
Click to expand...

An ex-pro has a whole different level of standards..
They see things a college player will not.
They also have a whole different dimension of focus.
Ex-college will focus on the stroke, while ex-Pro will focus on the recovery step.

For example, your muscled and stiff jerky BH would never get past an ex-Pro.
It probably would not even get past D2, but D3 & local park "feeder" coach will say "Nice BH" if the ball lands in.
In D1/2/3, you can still have funky strokes and poor movement.
Ex-pro would keep telling you that it's crap until you fixed it.
You can hit a winner against ex-Pro and he will still say it's garbage
Bad mechanics stick out to an ex-Pro since they only see perfect form.
The lower the level to more accepting they are, since they have seen more of it at their level.
 
ChaelAZ said:
I get the idea, but most the college players from D3 to D1 will do hits/lessons for pretty cheap. I would opt for that over a 3.5.
Click to expand...

$30 for 3.5 or HS kid
$50 for ex-college or local park feeder
$125+ for club pro
$250+ for ex-ATP

There's something for everyone and the $30 range is underserved and underrepp'ed as @sureshs implied.
 
E46luver said:
Need cheaper lessons?
Create a personal development game plan
and pay a tennis buddy who is looking for side income

One of my 3.5 hitting partners is a tennis junkie. He has started giving lessons to 2.5 & 3.0 players
I have decided to support him and take lessons with him (in addition to my costly lessons with D2 coach)

I am beyond stroke mechanics in terms of pure drilling with easy feeds, so I can use him to drills certain shots:
Overheads, volleys, approach shots, serve return drills.

I will get cheap lessons, and he gets more experience while getting paid.
It's a win/win. Great way to get some volume reps at half cost
Click to expand...
I like this, specifically I like the passion.

There was a time I told myself I would hit with anyone, in any way, as long as I get to move and hit the ball which basically met my tennis requirement.

It was a simple time. The joy of tennis was real. It felt easy both mentally and physically.

Then, I probably got better, much better, due to that style. I then complicated my tennis by demanding, expecting good tennis, stake-tennis, with formats and all that craps. That was the start of my current downhill.

The passion is depleting from bad losses, bad tennis which is killing my passion. I have to break out the circle.

I gotta rant. Maybe it'll start up something in me.

I like your post. Whatever it is, I just understand that is more playing.
 
user92626 said:
I like this, specifically I like the passion.

There was a time I told myself I would hit with anyone, in any way, as long as I get to move and hit the ball which basically met my tennis requirement.

It was a simple time. The joy of tennis was real. It felt easy both mentally and physically.

Then, I probably got better, much better, due to that style. I then complicated my tennis by demanding, expecting good tennis, stake-tennis, with formats and all that craps. That was the start of my current downhill.

The passion is depleting from bad losses, bad tennis which is killing my passion. I have to break out the circle.

I gotta rant. Maybe it'll start up something in me.

I like your post. Whatever it is, I just understand that is more playing.
Click to expand...
Maybe getting back to giving yourself kudos when you don't fold due to pressure even though you lose. And, for me, making sure I have lots of just rallying sessions instead of matches. Playing too many matches can be wearying. If you use rally sessions to tinker with your technique you can perhaps avoid getting bored by them. It does help if you just like hitting the ball, though.
 
mnttlrg said:
I love the idea, but I would expect 4.0 or 4.5 to be the minimum, and/or pay about quarter for that low of a playing level.
Click to expand...
For 2.5 and 3.0? IDK.
My buddy wanted to get into tennis. So I gave him some lessons. His girlfriend too. There's a lot of basics to be taught. But I guess I'm a bit different in that I've had a lesson every week for 2 years. Oh, not me on the court, but I was on the sidelines to see what my $77/hr coaching fee was going towards (for my son).
So I helped them out for 3-4 weeks and then told them to see a pro. They went to a pro and for the first two weeks, did the exact same things I showed them. Well, maybe different for serve swing path and different way to label grips.

So things you can work on (because you can't see yourself) is:
1. Ready position
2. Timing of your strokes,
3. Swing path
4. Split step :)eek:)
5. FH grip/BH grip
6. etc

Plus, I used to instruct language, mountain biking and do presentations in front of ppl all the time. So I think there are folks that can teach others and there are folks that can't.

I don't know that I would want lessons from a 3.5 that don't have experience institutional knowledge on basics. Just pick up their bad habits...

*edit* btw, I charged my buddy a couple margaritas at happy hour after our sessions.
 
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E46luver said:
....
One of my 3.5 hitting partners is a tennis junkie. He has started giving lessons to 2.5 & 3.0 players
I have decided to support him and take lessons with him (in addition to my costly lessons with D2 coach)

I am beyond stroke mechanics in terms of pure drilling with easy feeds, so I can use him to drills certain shots:
Overheads, volleys, approach shots, serve return drills.
....
Click to expand...
This sounds risky to me, at least the way you describe it. Unless you are certain that your technique is already fundamentally sound, asking someone who you can't be sure really knows what he's talking about or can diagnose problems during a hitting session (not an easy skill to hit and observe what the other guy is doing in detail)--you may wind up grooving problematic technique. I think a better suggestion is to use your buddy to video you and be a hitting partner and you learn to diagnose and correct your technique by both watching your videos and, importantly, studying technique through good resources like the better tennis YouTube channels (e.g. Daily Tennis Lesson, Intuitive Tennis). Also, get in the habit of being able to explain why any shot you just hit wasn't good or what you expected. Developing this diagnostic ability is IMHO the single most important thing you can do to help improve your tennis during games, rallies and lessons.
 
ChaelAZ said:
I get the idea, but most the college players from D3 to D1 will do hits/lessons for pretty cheap. I would opt for that over a 3.5.
Click to expand...

Can confirm that college players are pretty reasonable for pricing.

I used to get coached by various players from UCSB, SDSU, and USC for about $20/hr.
 
ChaelAZ said:
I get the idea, but most the college players from D3 to D1 will do hits/lessons for pretty cheap. I would opt for that over a 3.5.
Click to expand...

I once took a $20 lesson from a D1 guy on summer vacation.

But they are hard to find.

And they are good for hitting, not so much for learning.
 
E46luver said:
$30 for 3.5 or HS kid
$50 for ex-college or local park feeder
$125+ for club pro
$250+ for ex-ATP

There's something for everyone and the $30 range is underserved and underrepp'ed as @sureshs implied.
Click to expand...

NY pricing or something there. Most the community colleges kids are only $25 an hour. ASU D1 was only $50 for an hour and a half for my son. Then again, we had him with Prudhomme - hitting with Pros, last ATP ranked, and current D1 at Grand Canyon doing group classes for like $10 to $15 and privates from $30 to $75 or $90. But they ran clinics and lessons cheap enough many of our 3.5 to 4.5 guys saw them.

I dunno. As @Traffic mentioned though, I used to hit with everyone and anyone, especially juniors who LOVE to get reps in while developing. Also assisted with high school kids. I can run drills and help with stroke basics, so I don’t disagree you COULD hit cheap with a 3.5 or 4.0 as a lower player getting started, but I think there are better options. Hell, there are PLENTY of high school ‘coaches’ I know that have never played and run programs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ok, I think people have totally lost the point of this thread.

Want cheap drills?
Pay a hitting partner $25 to run drills exactly as you want.
Is this the same as a lesson?
No, it was never meant to be.

Want to drill serve returns?
Pay your friend $25 to serve at you for an hour straight.
It will be cheaper than hiring a pro.

Want to drill volleys?
Pay your friend $25 to feed you volleys for an hour straight.
It will be cheaper than hiring a pro.

Want to drill your new BH?
Pay your friend $25 to feed you BH's for an hour straight.
It will be cheaper than hiring a pro.

Want to drill overheads?
Pay your friend $25 to feed you overheads for an hour straight.
It will be cheaper than hiring a pro.
 
E46luver said:
An ex-pro has a whole different level of standards..
They see things a college player will not.
They also have a whole different dimension of focus.
Ex-college will focus on the stroke, while ex-Pro will focus on the recovery step.

For example, your muscled and stiff jerky BH would never get past an ex-Pro.
It probably would not even get past D2, but D3 & local park "feeder" coach will say "Nice BH" if the ball lands in.
In D1/2/3, you can still have funky strokes and poor movement.
Ex-pro would keep telling you that it's crap until you fixed it.
You can hit a winner against ex-Pro and he will still say it's garbage
Bad mechanics stick out to an ex-Pro since they only see perfect form.
The lower the level to more accepting they are, since they have seen more of it at their level.
Click to expand...
Great man. With that level of coaching, i look forward to seeing you getting bumped to 4.5 and post some videos of your smooth BH (y)(y).
You do well at 4.0????
 
E46luver said:
I've taken over 100 lessons and filmed at least 75 hitting sessions.
At this point, I know what I need to work on.
I will use the 3.5 coach to get my reps in, not learn new things.

For a lower level player, the difference between a strong 3.5 giving you lessons vs. never taking a lesson in your life is life altering.
Click to expand...
If you have foundational information and you need someone to hit reps and also to look at certain aspects of your game, this would be just fine.

I've hit with my son and asked him about one or two aspects of my game. He's not necessarily coaching me. But he is providing feedback and helping me work on specific parts of my game.

I was returning from a broken collarbone and ribs and so it was great to work out with someone that was of lower skill. My buddy got consistent enough to hit with and I was able to work on my BH. Also work on return his hard drives and junk balls consistently. Work on shaping my shots and placement.
 
Born_to_slice said:
I don't know what the bigger rip-off is. 30$ for a 3.5 or 250$ for an ex-pro. You can get ex-challenger level (so ex-pro) coach here for 15-20$ an hour.
Click to expand...
Where do you find ex-pro coach for $20????thats really good deal. I am up for that cheap lessons.
Where i live, to hit (just hitting) with D1 college players is already $50.
To be honest, i don't know if all high level players (ex pro, D1) can coach. For them its all natural.
I once ask a friend who's 5.0 to teach me how to serve. He said "hey, just do this...". lol, of course, i couldnt learn cr*p.
 
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Born_to_slice said:
I don't know what the bigger rip-off is. 30$ for a 3.5 or 250$ for an ex-pro. You can get ex-challenger level (so ex-pro) coach here for 15-20$ an hour.
Click to expand...

It was implied that the ex-pro played in the open era of tennis.
Where do you live where ex-pros are giving lessons for barely more than minimum wage?
 
ptuanminh said:
Where do you find ex-pro coach for $20????thats really good deal. I am up for that cheap lessons.
Where i live, to hit (just hitting) with D1 college players is already $50.
To be honest, i don't know if all high level players (ex pro, D1) can coach. For them its all natural.
I once ask a friend who's 5.0 to teach me how to serve. He said "hey, just do this...". lol, of course, i couldnt learn cr*p.
Click to expand...
Serbia. Novak's club/academy, all coaching is 20 eur an hour (without court, which is from 4.5-9 eur). It gets cheaper elsewhere and even more in other cities. Lots of kids from everywhere come to train here as it's extremely affordable for people from wealthier countries. And programs for kids for a season are even cheaper by the hour.
E46luver said:
It was implied that the ex-pro played in the open era of tennis.
Where do you live where ex-pros are giving lessons for barely more than minimum wage?
Click to expand...
Well yeah, these guys were good players that for some reason gave up travelling and grinding challengers. If they ever won a single match, they had ATP points too. For a rec player, that's (technically) a perfect coach, I'd say. If you want just to drill cheaply, you might as well do it with a friend or like-minded tennis enthusiast for free.

I get that's it's different with wages and prices in the West but here an average salary is about 500 eur, so all prices are adjusted to that level. With few thousand eur that coaches here can make, they can live very comfy, so it's not minimal wage in that perspective.
 
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No wonder they all come to the USA to teach at clubs.
Anyone with an ATP point is earning $125 to $250 an hour at elite academies.
 
I'm not paying some 3.5 scrub to "coach" me. Thats embarrassing. Also what typical adult rec 3.5 player is going to accept 25 bucks. Or whatever low ball number. $35/45 bucks. Thats absurd.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
 
E46luver said:
No wonder they all come to the USA to teach at clubs.
Anyone with an ATP point is earning $125 to $250 an hour at elite academies.
Click to expand...
Here in southern call I know former atp players with peak ranking around 100 who gives junior players lessons 80-100/hr. Anyone paying over 100/hr is paying too much
 
Here the going rate is 70-75 an hour. There are a few with an extensive resume and therefore charge over $100. If you aren't feeding balls to your kid and aren't rallying with him, it doesn't matter who the coach is.
 
Glad I know a 3.5 who is only charging $30.

Looking forward to doing:
1 hour of BH
1 hour of volley
1 hour of approach shots
2 hours of serve returns

Total cost $150
More drilling in 1 week than most people do in a year
 
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