Ideal distance from baseline

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Tell me the best place for recreational players to start off in singles or where to return to in a neutral situation. I used to play 3 to 6 feet behind the baseline as once taught to me in a clinic. Nowadays, I stand right at the baseline. It cuts down on movement requirements, but hard deep shots catch me by surprise. But I am getting used to "contracting" my body and turning sideways and getting back such balls also.

Is it better to stand at the baseline and get pushed back unconsciously as needed by the pace and depth of the ball? Or start back and move in as needed?

Simple answers (i.e. not full of exceptions depending on situation) are what I am looking for.
 

montx

Professional
I stand one to two feet behind the baseline. I wouldn't stand as far back as 3 because i like to take the ball early and should i need to deal with short ball im ready to move.
 

WBF

Hall of Fame
I never told my fiancee where to stand, and she ended up learning from less than a foot behind the baseline. It has helped immensely with her timing, pick-up shots, and other aspects of the game. I'm not sure if I can think of any drawbacks to playing closer to the baseline...
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
To clarify, the "1 foot" both of you mention is the placement of your feet, right? So your racquet is sticking a foot into the court?
 

g9clem

New User
I think it depends on the shots your opponent often hits. If he/she hits high looping topspins that kicks high or constantly hits deep shots than standing 3-4 feet behind the baseline is a good start. If your opponent's balls constantly land around the service line on the first bounce than 1 feet or on the baseline would be a good place for you to stand.

Bottom line it all depends on your opponents shots and of course your ability/aggressiveness.
 

WBF

Hall of Fame
Personally, I prefer being in close when rallying, and when it's possible during a match. I have a much harder time moving forward than quickly shifting backwards (especially considering that you will rarely need to move back very far, but you could have to move forward more), and I would suspect this is true for many people: you don't push off with your heel.
 

WBF

Hall of Fame
To clarify, the "1 foot" both of you mention is the placement of your feet, right? So your racquet is sticking a foot into the court?

Oh, I don't mean actually being in the court, more having the front foot or both feet roughly a foot behind the baseline. Maybe stepping into the court if you are using a closed stance, but only on shorter balls.
 
I stand a good 4-6 feet behind the baseline. I have humongous groundstrokes with long actions. But I've noticed that as my ability to predict improved, I've stood further and further back. I can sense short balls and drop shots well enough that I can afford this.
 

montx

Professional
Roughly 1 foot. I love it when guys play the whole 4 feet plus behind the baseline then i can just start my pushing and lobbing game.
 

ohplease

Professional
I think it depends on the shots your opponent often hits. If he/she hits high looping topspins that kicks high or constantly hits deep shots than standing 3-4 feet behind the baseline is a good start. If your opponent's balls constantly land around the service line on the first bounce than 1 feet or on the baseline would be a good place for you to stand.

Bottom line it all depends on your opponents shots and of course your ability/aggressiveness.

Truth.

3 feet (or 1, or 6, or whatever) behind the baseline in all situations will put you too far back against people who lack depth, and often times too close against people approaching with pace and depth.
 
S

swimntennis

Guest
I'll usually camp out just behind the baseline, no more than 2 feet. Even if someone is pushing me back with pace I'd rather take it early then back up a ton. If I'm feeling particularly aggressive/"on", I'll stay just inside the baseline.
 

Moz

Hall of Fame
To try and take the next step I am making a conscious effort to stay as near to the baseline as possible. This enables me to take the ball earlier, gives the opponent less time and, as WBF states, moving forward is easier allowing you to be more aggressive on shorter balls.
 

WBF

Hall of Fame
To try and take the next step I am making a conscious effort to stay as near to the baseline as possible. This enables me to take the ball earlier, gives the opponent less time and, as WBF states, moving forward is easier allowing you to be more aggressive on shorter balls.

Good point, forgot to mention this! It is a very important... Less recovery/preparatory time = more off balance = more likely to miss shot.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
To try and take the next step I am making a conscious effort to stay as near to the baseline as possible. This enables me to take the ball earlier, gives the opponent less time and, as WBF states, moving forward is easier allowing you to be more aggressive on shorter balls.

Tradeoff being that you also get less time, I suppose.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I am liking the baseline position I use now (will try to shift to 1 foot behind, which seems to be a nice compromise). I find that I run less, and make fewer errors because I don't have time for a big swing (sort of perverse logic - the opposite of what a pro would want) and it just feels "brave" to be always at the baseline. I have trouble with deep balls on the backhand. 1 foot should be great.
 

WBF

Hall of Fame
sureshs: Even if you don't always use it, practicing from this court position could be quite helpful.
 

ohplease

Professional
Tradeoff being that you also get less time, I suppose.

This is huge. Somebody who knows what they're doing will eat bad baseline huggers for lunch, because they will OFTEN cough up something weak or short because they're denying THEMSELVES the time to properly prepare.

There is no substitute for moving your feet. You need to bust your tail moving both side to side AND up and back.
 

WBF

Hall of Fame
This is huge. Somebody who knows what they're doing will eat bad baseline huggers for lunch, because they will OFTEN cough up something weak or short because they're denying THEMSELVES the time to properly prepare.

There is no substitute for moving your feet. You need to bust your tail moving both side to side AND up and back.

Think about the movement involved in forward and backward motion. Quick movements forward aren't nearly as efficient as quick movements backwards, unless you use your heels to move forward and have feet that angle upwards :p Movement is certainly important, just pointing out that playing back seems inefficient... If you want to be ready for short and deep balls, which makes more sense:

S= Optimal place to hit short balls, D = optimal for deep, B = baseline
S..B(Me)....D
S..B....(Me)D

In the second situation, you are only optimally prepared for deep shots. Anything short will require significant movement. You may not even get the chance to optimally position yourself for shorter balls. In the first situation, if you practice you will eventually have an easy time with even deep balls, or at least only have to move slightly back for these, and slightly forward for short balls. It just seems more efficient... And practicing from the baseline position can be very helpful for your timing. My fiance started less than two years ago (as in: first time she played tennis apart from gym class) and because she accidentally always practiced from right behind the baseline, she hasn't had trouble with my deep shots (which have spin, and a good pace) for about a half year now.
 

Tennis_Monk

Hall of Fame
I stand a good 4-6 feet behind the baseline. I have humongous groundstrokes with long actions. But I've noticed that as my ability to predict improved, I've stood further and further back. I can sense short balls and drop shots well enough that I can afford this.

This approach my work for you (and probably few like you) and on clay courts against huge topspinners .
Otherwise this isnt a good strategy for most players. No matter how good One's ground strokes are that Tennis court geometry isnt in one's favour as one moves further away from the net. Even Nadal has considerable trouble trying to chase down well executed drop shots against quality Opposition.

For lesser tennis mortals, it is probably better to work the strokes and get closer inside the baseline and eventually put away.
 

Moz

Hall of Fame
Thanks WBF - very interesting.

It's amazing how easy it is to change your timing to take deep balls on the rise - just a few sessions really. It's proving more difficult to make a habit of standing there in the first place.

It may rob you of a bit of prep time but I think the disadvantage you give the opponent is stronger than the disadvantage you give yourself. Plus, if this is "what you do" you can actively reduce this disadvantage.

I'm starting to ramble and talk bollocks now.
 

Bungalo Bill

G.O.A.T.
Tell me the best place for recreational players to start off in singles or where to return to in a neutral situation. I used to play 3 to 6 feet behind the baseline as once taught to me in a clinic. Nowadays, I stand right at the baseline. It cuts down on movement requirements, but hard deep shots catch me by surprise. But I am getting used to "contracting" my body and turning sideways and getting back such balls also.

Is it better to stand at the baseline and get pushed back unconsciously as needed by the pace and depth of the ball? Or start back and move in as needed?

Simple answers (i.e. not full of exceptions depending on situation) are what I am looking for.

As close as you can to hit on the rise. Normally this is about 1ft behind the baseline and sometimes you step inside the court. And sometimes you have to back up a bit.
 

Doc Hollidae

Hall of Fame
I think for most people 2-3 feet behind the baseline is pretty standard.

Personally, I line my toes up with the back of the baseline and will only move back further to cover a moonball.
 

soggyramen

Professional
i play a lot of hard hitting high topspin hitters so almost all of us stand like "nadal style" behind the baseline...talking 5-10 depending on the person.
 

Rickson

G.O.A.T.
From the baseline? Freak that! I stand inside the baseline and dare anyone to try and jam me. If the ball is about to land right on the baseline, I pluck it out of the air and turn it into a long volley. Be a man! Stand inside the hot zone.
 

WBF

Hall of Fame
soggyramen, you are mistaken. Watch some video's of pro's. They mostly tend to gravitate towards the baseline and perhaps a foot back with slight movements back for some shots, forward for others. Even against players like Nadal. I could see standing that far back for rallying, but even then it's a lazy choice, and won't develop your game as much.
 
I think that it is a personal decision... I don't see how standing farther back can hinder your game as long as your putting your strengths against others weakness's. I play 5-6 feet behind the baseline.
 

pow

Hall of Fame
For me, the closer the better. You get to put yourself in a more offensive position and you get to create better angles.

It is also largely dependent on your playing style.
 

cadfael_tex

Professional
Smart aleck answer - 1-2 feet back (from the net)

Don't think there is a simple answer. Two biggest factors i can think of are your strokes and your opponents strokes. If you hit flatter or on the rise effectively you hit closer. If your opponent hits deep topspin shots then a little further back. I affirm the advice as close as you feel comfortable (realizing that it will be slightly different as you get in a rhythm with your opponent).
 

herosol

Professional
I stand pretty back around 3 feet i think, although I am more of a grinder person, then pure hitting so yeah.

I also return serves 3 feet back or more depending on the server.
 

Nellie

Hall of Fame
I try not to pay attention to the baseline. I had a coach a while ago who had a theory that the baseline was an artificial barrier.

In his mind, to get to a ball, you should rarely run along the baseline, but instead move diagonally to get to the ball faster, to hit the ball agressively, and to move into the court.

Also, you positioning near the baseline should not matter since you are moving back and forth to adjust to the bal.

Well, that was the ideal, at least. I like to return serve pretty far back (about 5-10 feet) , but on most courts, I don't have much room left before the fence.
 

Bungalo Bill

G.O.A.T.
i play a lot of hard hitting high topspin hitters so almost all of us stand like "nadal style" behind the baseline...talking 5-10 depending on the person.

Sorry but this is not a good thing. Standing this far back and noting Nadal is a bit misguided,

Nadal is a hell of an athlete that can chew up real estate if he needs to. Plus, a lot of good clay courters play back because they are used to doing so.

Staying 10 feet back is just ridiculous and you will be angled to death.

Most club players would not be able to cover the court plus an extra 10 feet.
 

racquet_jedi

Professional
Tell me the best place for recreational players to start off in singles or where to return to in a neutral situation. I used to play 3 to 6 feet behind the baseline as once taught to me in a clinic. Nowadays, I stand right at the baseline. It cuts down on movement requirements, but hard deep shots catch me by surprise. But I am getting used to "contracting" my body and turning sideways and getting back such balls also.

Is it better to stand at the baseline and get pushed back unconsciously as needed by the pace and depth of the ball? Or start back and move in as needed?

Simple answers (i.e. not full of exceptions depending on situation) are what I am looking for.

Was this on clay or hard courts?

I was told to stay less than a foot behind the baseline on hard courts...
 

Off The Wall

Semi-Pro
Standing Around

Standing on the baseline and hitting balls on the rise to rob opponents of their recovery time is a great plan. In real life, that presupposes your opponent has hit his shot from a disadvantageous court position and requires a recovery. (As opposed to standing behind the baseline in the center of the court.) That means you are forcing him to hit a defensive shot. With that knowledge, you would press forward in anticipation of a shorter return.

On the flip side, why would anyone stand on the baseline and trade ground strokes (outside their optimum strike zone) with an opponent comfortably standing behind the baseline and letting the ball bounce up into his optimum strike zone?

In short, move around to hit your most effective shot—wherever it takes you. Do not circle the wagons around a place on the court.
 
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swimntennis

Guest
I try not to pay attention to the baseline. I had a coach a while ago who had a theory that the baseline was an artificial barrier.

In his mind, to get to a ball, you should rarely run along the baseline, but instead move diagonally to get to the ball faster, to hit the ball agressively, and to move into the court.

Also, you positioning near the baseline should not matter since you are moving back and forth to adjust to the bal.

Well, that was the ideal, at least. I like to return serve pretty far back (about 5-10 feet) , but on most courts, I don't have much room left before the fence.

I've heard this too. My coach on clay really drilled into us that the baseline is nothing more than a piece of tape that indicates if the ball is in or out. It means nothing as to where you should stand.
 

WBF

Hall of Fame
I've heard this too. My coach on clay really drilled into us that the baseline is nothing more than a piece of tape that indicates if the ball is in or out. It means nothing as to where you should stand.

You should absolutely have a depth that you naturally gravitate to based on your opponent. Unless you are playing an incredible player who can hit nearly every ball on the baseline, chances are this position will be closer to the baseline. Obviously you adjust to various balls, but to say that it does not matter is absolutely ridiculous. I have already pointed out why. Minimize movement, maximize efficiency, put your opponent off balance. Certain players may prefer playing far back, but if you watch high level tennis *matches*, you will note that the majority of these players play slightly behind the baselin, where they can either step in to put away short balls, be optimally placed for the majority of normal balls, and step back for occasional balls near the baseline.

Seeing that players like Federer do this indicates that regardless of how deep your opponent hits (unless you're playing a fictional perfect player) playing relatively close to the baseline would be the optimal way to play. At the very least, it will help with your preparation (you need to be ready slightly earlier, but it's not a disadvantage because you know ahead of time), timing (my fiancee who has played under two years can now hit my deepest college level groundstrokes as consistently as the rest of my shots when playing at this depth) and so forth...
 
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Think about the movement involved in forward and backward motion. Quick movements forward aren't nearly as efficient as quick movements backwards, unless you use your heels to move forward and have feet that angle upwards :p Movement is certainly important, just pointing out that playing back seems inefficient...

This is simply physiologically incorrect. Your body is designed for forward motion, and all of your muscular and skeletal structure is designed to facilitate this.

Also, moving backwards screws with your weight distribution, while moving forwards gets your weight dbn going the right way.
 

Bungalo Bill

G.O.A.T.
I've heard this too. My coach on clay really drilled into us that the baseline is nothing more than a piece of tape that indicates if the ball is in or out. It means nothing as to where you should stand.

Yeah, tell it to Agassi. How many championships does your coach have??
 

WBF

Hall of Fame
This is simply physiologically incorrect. Your body is designed for forward motion, and all of your muscular and skeletal structure is designed to facilitate this.

Also, moving backwards screws with your weight distribution, while moving forwards gets your weight dbn going the right way.

Think about what is involved in an optimal stroke in terms of your body. Do you want to be already moving forward on a stroke, or do you want to step into the stroke preferably from a standstill? Have you heard of a split step? If you are roughly one foot behind the baseline, stepping back with one foot followed by pushing off with that foot for the stroke will allow an optimal stroke. If you are further back, and you get any short ball, you will be forced to hit a ball with less balance (you are moving), and while *already* moving vs. pushing off from a stand still. Maybe this is just me, I don't hit quite as well when I'm moving forward to get to a shot vs. stepping in from an optimal position. I'm sure you would get a better explanation from someone with actual experience teaching :p

This ignores the advantage of reducing your opponents recovery and preperatory time, the ability to move to net quicker, the slightly improved angle choices, and the ability to get to very short balls far more efficiently...
 
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ohplease

Professional
The best advice in the thread is the point about the baseline being a limitation on the ball - not you. The thread topic should be asking about the ideal distance or spatial relation TO THE BALL, not the baseline.

Just as Nadal isn't a good example for rec players to emulate (due to his world class movement) neither is Agassi, with his world-class hand-eye co-ordination. In fact, Agassi is probably an even worse example to draw from, as his hand-eye skills are likely far more freakish than Nadal's movement. Either way, no rec player has anything approaching either man's tools.
 
@WBF:

I understand that, say, opening up your body for a forehand can involve an element of moving back, and this is very efficient compared to repositioning your whole body one foot further forward.

However, I am thinking more of the case where you quickly need to transition, say, 1 metre forward vs one metre backward.

Agree with the advantages of camping out close to / on the baseline as a means of robbing time from your opp, but IMO, this must be combined with a certain bloody-minded reluctance not to take a step back except in the most dire emergency. Else you end up with the problems of inefficient movement and poor weight dbn which I outlined in my previous post.
 
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Nellie

Hall of Fame
You should absolutely have a depth that you naturally gravitate to based on your opponent....

I do appreciate that the grass at Wimbeldon tends to worn to the dirt right about 1-2 feet behind the baseline. Interestingly, it used to worn right about the tee of the service box, but you do not see this much any more.

Similarly, after a match at Roland Garros, you can see the footprints mostly about 4-5 feet back (obviously depending on the player).

Not that we are pros, but you can see that even the pros tend to gravitate to a specific distance behind the baseline, and that this distance is pretty uniform behind the baseline (i.e., the wear lines does not seem to curve out in the center).
 

WBF

Hall of Fame
In his mind, to get to a ball, you should rarely run along the baseline, but instead move diagonally to get to the ball faster, to hit the ball agressively, and to move into the court.

I agree with your coach here, it's an excellent point (I don't execute it much yet unless I consciously think about it)

Yeah, surface certainly matters. I move slightly back on clay as well. I was mostly thinking hard courts as they are the most common around where I live.
 

The_Spartan

New User
Where to stand on the baseline comes from how deep your opponnent is hitting the rock, doesn't it ?

What good is it to stand 5' behind it if 'Rudy' is hitting short all day ?
 
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