Idiots playing College tennis?

Fabresque

Professional
Are there any.... poor performing college students in college tennis? I don’t mean have a low GPA, AKA not the brightest student but still gets it, I mean complete morons who have no idea what they’re doing but get off because the college coach recruiting him begged the school to take him even if he had a GPA lower than 2.5. There’s plenty of idiots in football and basketball, who clearly have no idea but get by because 1. The professors bump up their scores to get eligible, 2. Have other people do their homework/class work, or 3. The professor slips them answers during key tests and such so he can get them right.

Are there any examples of guys like this in college tennis?
 

Nacho

Professional
Since College tennis is a non-revenue sport and doesn't have many scholarships to give I don't think you are going to find too many answers in this thread. If any player is not performing well in school or having issues elsewhere I have rarely (meaning never) seen a coach keep them. Too many players out there to do that and not enough spots or scholarships.
 

Gemini

Hall of Fame
As Nacho mentioned, tennis isn't a money-generating sport so there's no incentive for anyone to prop up a tennis player simply because he/she is a great athlete but a poor student...unless his or her family's name is on a building somewhere on the campus.
 
I think it is the other way around in some cases. I have clients and coaches that stated players joined the tennis team just so they can go to their school (GWU). Maybe they were average but they wanted to join the Med or law program. They said their ability to play Tennis made their chances into getting into the school they wanted higher. I don’t think the tennis program is going to be as highly funded compared to basketball and football. I would say I haven’t met too many jr tennis players that Is on the short end when it comes to academics... Usually, USTA Jrs are from well off family’s at least here in the DC area. Private School kids and if public from a higher income zip code for sure. No saying by far the amount of income dictates your intelligence (so many examples both ways)
You can tell who are the cool kids and who are the brainy:) but come on cool tennis kids??? Oxymoron??? Off subject a bit, but this is my observation and probably stereotyping...
 

Nacho

Professional
I think it is the other way around in some cases. I have clients and coaches that stated players joined the tennis team just so they can go to their school (GWU). Maybe they were average but they wanted to join the Med or law program. They said their ability to play Tennis made their chances into getting into the school they wanted higher. I don’t think the tennis program is going to be as highly funded compared to basketball and football. I would say I haven’t met too many jr tennis players that Is on the short end when it comes to academics... Usually, USTA Jrs are from well off family’s at least here in the DC area. Private School kids and if public from a higher income zip code for sure. No saying by far the amount of income dictates your intelligence (so many examples both ways)
You can tell who are the cool kids and who are the brainy:) but come on cool tennis kids??? Oxymoron??? Off subject a bit, but this is my observation and probably stereotyping...
You can say that about sport truly (Kids that use sports to get into certain schools). I am not sure tennis is any different, and considering that only 4 scholarships are allowed for mens tennis teams in D-1 I am not sure I blame a kid for trying to be good at a sport to give him an edge somewhere. The decision to let a student in the school lies with the school, of course students are going to try an stretch their chances. I can say its not much of an edge (maybe a student has a 3.2 GPA instead of a 3.5), but maybe enough to be considered. I have never seen a kid with a sub 3.0 GPA get accepted anywhere just because of tennis, there could be other reasons but not tennis alone. However, I know guys that were good football players that got into Ivy League schools even though they didn't meet all the requirements of the school; again can't say I know many tennis players in the same boat. Its just not worth it for a coach who is trying to keep a job and team and is underpaid to begin with.

I would also point out that the rate of graduation for tennis players (according to the NCAA) from 1999 to 2002 was 84 percent, and the average was 79 percent. The mens sports above tennis? Lacrosse, Skiing, water Polo, Gymnastics and fencing; this is significant because those sports combined (during that time frame) had less participants then tennis, and are even more restricted for scholarships, schedules and available athletes. Lacrosse may be different now, but in 99' was a club sport in most schools. Sports at the bottom you ask? Baseball (69) Football (67) Basketball (64). These numbers would suggest that what you are saying might apply to those sports and not tennis.
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
In defense of baseball, numerous players turn pro after their junior year in college. They have leverage when negotiating their signing bonus and salary because they can return to college if a good offer is not made. After senior year, they get drafted and have no leverage. The graduation-on-time rates will never be good for good baseball teams that have a talent level that can get drafted. Football and basketball have no similar excuse.
 

UpOrDown

New User
Are you kidding with this thread? There are plenty of instances where a coach has to beg the school to admit a kid with a low GPA or a low TOEFL score (for foreign recruits) but I strongly doubt you are going to find anybody willing to provide an example in a public forum. Also, even though it does not qualify as an example of an "idiot" coaches at top academic schools (I.e. Ivy League and other top academic schools) have to beg their admissions people to admit students that would otherwise not be admitted. If you think coaches are not working the admissions departments than I would like to sell you some oceanfront property in Kansas. Also, there are plenty of tennis players skating by in complete BS majors just like athletes in revenue generating sports.
 

mmk

Hall of Fame
Of course sports can help you get into a college. Any idea how many really smart kids apply to one of the Ivy League schools, or schools like MIT? In the case of MIT, only about 1000 get in per year, so anything that helps a kid stand out helps their chance of getting in. But they aren't going to let dopes in. My daughter's field hockey and lacrosse helped get her into MIT, but she wouldn't have been considered without the 2300 on the SAT, the multiple 5s on AP tests, etc.
 
I know many. A lot of solid D1 guys are not there to play school. That's not to say though that there aren't plenty of incredibly smart players who commit themselves fully to both athletics and academics.
 

Nacho

Professional
Like I have said a few times, certainly there are shady coaches out there that know how to pull strings beyond the normal to get the players they want. However, despite the convictions its "bad" in tennis in particular, there are no stats to prove this, and the only stats you can go on are graduation rates. So given that tennis has few to no scholarships, is played at every level not just D-1, beyond power 5 schools is mostly overseen by volunteer coaches and school administrators, and still has one of the highest graduation rates in sports (and college in general which is 59% in 5 year period). This would led me to believe tennis shadiness is not as prevalent as in other sports despite some convictions otherwise.
 

10S Mom

New User
I think it is the other way around in some cases. I have clients and coaches that stated players joined the tennis team just so they can go to their school (GWU). Maybe they were average but they wanted to join the Med or law program. They said their ability to play Tennis made their chances into getting into the school they wanted higher. I don’t think the tennis program is going to be as highly funded compared to basketball and football. I would say I haven’t met too many jr tennis players that Is on the short end when it comes to academics... Usually, USTA Jrs are from well off family’s at least here in the DC area. Private School kids and if public from a higher income zip code for sure. No saying by far the amount of income dictates your intelligence (so many examples both ways)
You can tell who are the cool kids and who are the brainy:) but come on cool tennis kids??? Oxymoron??? Off subject a bit, but this is my observation and probably stereotyping...
 

10S Mom

New User
Only kids that continue in tennis through the 12th grade are extremely well off double lawyer or double doctor parents in the M****** .My kid is as good as I can afford them to be - can't compete anymore financially. Some of the higher ranked players parents even own tennis facilities.
 

Nacho

Professional
Only kids that continue in tennis through the 12th grade are extremely well off double lawyer or double doctor parents in the M****** .My kid is as good as I can afford them to be - can't compete anymore financially. Some of the higher ranked players parents even own tennis facilities.
I know lots of poor lawyers and doctors, and plenty of success stories of players who come from humble beginnings....
 

borna coric

Semi-Pro
I know lots of poor lawyers and doctors, and plenty of success stories of players who come from humble beginnings....
I've NOT met any poor lawyers and doctors in the area of Chevy Chase/Besthesda/Potomac/Mclean/Langley. On the contrary, I know quite a lot of wealthy doctors and lawyers in those mentioned areas. They are wealthy enough that their kids attend private schools such as Madeira, Potomac, Sidwell, Bullis, Georgetown Prep, Georgetown Day School, etc... at the cost of 40k/year. For those that don't attend private schools, they go to Churchill, Wooten, Richard Montgomery, Langley HS which are the best public schools in the DMV area. They also spend quite a bit of money of tennis lessons and clinnics. Most of those kids are really good tennis players and exceptional students so the idea that they struggle academically in high school and college is laughable. IT DOES NOT HAPPEN....

You can't compare tennis to football or basketball because most of the kids, NOT ALL, that play football and basketball come from single parent family, mostly mom, and live in housing projects. They don't have role models in early childhood to emphasize to them that education is the most important thing, bar none, to get out of the slump. Most of them couldn't even get a 700 on the SAT score and need special exemption to play ball in college. The sad thing is that those football and basketball players generate money for the university (slavery is more like it) and the university uses that money to support other non-revenue sports such as tennis. In other words, football and basketball get F_cked because by the end of their college playing career, very few of them will graduate with the meaningful skill to join the work force. That's why you see ex-athletes who are AA get in trouble with the law.

Enough of my ranting.
 

Nacho

Professional
I've NOT met any poor lawyers and doctors in the area of Chevy Chase/Besthesda/Potomac/Mclean/Langley. On the contrary, I know quite a lot of wealthy doctors and lawyers in those mentioned areas. They are wealthy enough that their kids attend private schools such as Madeira, Potomac, Sidwell, Bullis, Georgetown Prep, Georgetown Day School, etc... at the cost of 40k/year. For those that don't attend private schools, they go to Churchill, Wooten, Richard Montgomery, Langley HS which are the best public schools in the DMV area. They also spend quite a bit of money of tennis lessons and clinnics. Most of those kids are really good tennis players and exceptional students so the idea that they struggle academically in high school and college is laughable. IT DOES NOT HAPPEN....

You can't compare tennis to football or basketball because most of the kids, NOT ALL, that play football and basketball come from single parent family, mostly mom, and live in housing projects. They don't have role models in early childhood to emphasize to them that education is the most important thing, bar none, to get out of the slump. Most of them couldn't even get a 700 on the SAT score and need special exemption to play ball in college. The sad thing is that those football and basketball players generate money for the university (slavery is more like it) and the university uses that money to support other non-revenue sports such as tennis. In other words, football and basketball get F_cked because by the end of their college playing career, very few of them will graduate with the meaningful skill to join the work force. That's why you see ex-athletes who are AA get in trouble with the law.

Enough of my ranting.
Silly thing to get MAD about....And an uniformed statement to class tennis players as only from wealthy backgrounds, specifically Dr's and Lawyers, and as if tennis is somehow privileged only. This is the stigma of the 1930's through 60's that never goes away. Tennis is not a High School run sport, so it doesn't fit into a cookie cutter style as other sports which can be cheaply administered through the HS. Read about Arthur Ashe, Francis Tiafoe, Ernesto Escobedo, and countless others. Rarely will you hear things like wealthy parents, Dr's and Lawyers, and country clubs. What you will see in many cases is that tennis takes a mentoring program, and for many successful players: Fritz Harrison, and the above mentioned they had a parent mentor who helped them through. And considering you can count the amount of Americans in the top 100, the majority of players up there came from humble beginnings and in some cases poor countries. Just ask Djokovic.

And for Football and Basketball, these sports still have higher graduation rates then regular student bodies, so to classify them different is an indication of believing in all the sensationalism of ESPN and other sports reporting networks, and not the data. I would encourage you to look at some of the data on these sports. Sports in general is a great conduit to success, and much of what is talked about is sensationalized for the news, and because these athletes are in the spotlight.

Lastly, hate to tell you but Football and basketball are revenue sports in very few cases, mostly just the D-1 power 5 level, but not even that. Lots of schools out there. These sports can be huge drains on budgets, and mostly there because schools like to try and have them to accommodate alumni events and other sports events on campus. Ask the University of Buffalo how much money their football program generates for them.

Truly this whole discussion is misinformed, and ridiculously playing into the sports stereotypes.
 

borna coric

Semi-Pro
Silly thing to get MAD about....And an uniformed statement to class tennis players as only from wealthy backgrounds, specifically Dr's and Lawyers, and as if tennis is somehow privileged only. This is the stigma of the 1930's through 60's that never goes away. Tennis is not a High School run sport, so it doesn't fit into a cookie cutter style as other sports which can be cheaply administered through the HS. Read about Arthur Ashe, Francis Tiafoe, Ernesto Escobedo, and countless others. Rarely will you hear things like wealthy parents, Dr's and Lawyers, and country clubs. What you will see in many cases is that tennis takes a mentoring program, and for many successful players: Fritz Harrison, and the above mentioned they had a parent mentor who helped them through. And considering you can count the amount of Americans in the top 100, the majority of players up there came from humble beginnings and in some cases poor countries. Just ask Djokovic.
Very few people will make it in pro tennis. The pros are different animals than the rest of us. Have you ever been to any junior USTA boys/girls tournaments lately? I can tell you that just about everyone of them do private lessons, clinics, members of either health clubs or country clubs, etc.... The parents are either very well off or wealthy. Parents are either doctors, lawyers or engineers. Go ahead and look up any of the mid-atlantic tournaments and you can see that the majority of the kids either live in Fairfaix, Montomery or Ashburn areas which are expensive. How many kids in the tournament do you notice NOT from Baltimore city or Prince George County (aka ghetto areas)?

And for Football and Basketball, these sports still have higher graduation rates then regular student bodies, so to classify them different is an indication of believing in all the sensationalism of ESPN and other sports reporting networks, and not the data. I would encourage you to look at some of the data on these sports. Sports in general is a great conduit to success, and much of what is talked about is sensationalized for the news, and because these athletes are in the spotlight.
Are you kidding me? I don't think Stanford would have accepted Toby Gerhart if he was just a regular A student with less than 1300 on the SAT had he not playing football. Btw, Gerhart became one of the Heismain finalist in his senior year. Your statement about Football and BB sports have higher graduation rates than regular students bodies, you need to talk to the University of North Carolina about the huge cheating scandal about football and basketball players. Take a look at the requirements for acceptance between football/bb players in the PAC-12: https://thehuskyhaul.com/2012/05/16/comparing-the-acceptance-rates-of-athletes-to-the-general-public/

FB/BB players "might", and it is debatable, have higher graduation rates than the regular student bodies but their majors completely worthless, like sports management, African studies, etc... That's why they are not prepared for the real world. Tell you what, as someone who did tutoring with student athlete in college in math/chemistry/physics, I can tell you that 99.99% of football/BB players don't even know how to do Algebra II and the word bunsen burner seems foreign to them. Btw, I went to college when the NCAA used to have prop 48, you should look that up but here is a little snippet: "The NCAA enacted Proposition 48 in 1986. ... Prop 48 mandates that in order for a student-athlete to qualify to play in Division I athletics as a Freshman, the athlete must carry a minimum 2.0 grade point average (GPA) in 11 core courses and a combined 700 score on the SAT." Now you tell me if anyone can survive at UCLA or Notre Dame with 2.0 GPA in high school and 700 on the SAT. Btw, in SAT, you start out at 400. You remember Tony Rice, the famous quaterback who won the National Championship for Notre Dame in 1988? He is the prop 48 poster child.

Lastly, hate to tell you but Football and basketball are revenue sports in very few cases, mostly just the D-1 power 5 level, but not even that. Lots of schools out there. These sports can be huge drains on budgets, and mostly there because schools like to try and have them to accommodate alumni events and other sports events on campus. Ask the University of Buffalo how much money their football program generates for them.
Truly this whole discussion is misinformed, and ridiculously playing into the sports stereotypes.
In football/bb, nobody cares about schools outside of the Power-5 conference. You should also ask Khalil Mack if he ever graduated from University of Buffalo. Watching his interviews on TV, he sound like a man with an 7th grade education.
 

Nacho

Professional
Very few people will make it in pro tennis. The pros are different animals than the rest of us. Have you ever been to any junior USTA boys/girls tournaments lately? I can tell you that just about everyone of them do private lessons, clinics, members of either health clubs or country clubs, etc.... The parents are either very well off or wealthy. Parents are either doctors, lawyers or engineers. Go ahead and look up any of the mid-atlantic tournaments and you can see that the majority of the kids either live in Fairfaix, Montomery or Ashburn areas which are expensive. How many kids in the tournament do you notice NOT from Baltimore city or Prince George County (aka ghetto areas)?



Are you kidding me? I don't think Stanford would have accepted Toby Gerhart if he was just a regular A student with less than 1300 on the SAT had he not playing football. Btw, Gerhart became one of the Heismain finalist in his senior year. Your statement about Football and BB sports have higher graduation rates than regular students bodies, you need to talk to the University of North Carolina about the huge cheating scandal about football and basketball players. Take a look at the requirements for acceptance between football/bb players in the PAC-12: https://thehuskyhaul.com/2012/05/16/comparing-the-acceptance-rates-of-athletes-to-the-general-public/

FB/BB players "might", and it is debatable, have higher graduation rates than the regular student bodies but their majors completely worthless, like sports management, African studies, etc... That's why they are not prepared for the real world. Tell you what, as someone who did tutoring with student athlete in college in math/chemistry/physics, I can tell you that 99.99% of football/BB players don't even know how to do Algebra II and the word bunsen burner seems foreign to them. Btw, I went to college when the NCAA used to have prop 48, you should look that up but here is a little snippet: "The NCAA enacted Proposition 48 in 1986. ... Prop 48 mandates that in order for a student-athlete to qualify to play in Division I athletics as a Freshman, the athlete must carry a minimum 2.0 grade point average (GPA) in 11 core courses and a combined 700 score on the SAT." Now you tell me if anyone can survive at UCLA or Notre Dame with 2.0 GPA in high school and 700 on the SAT. Btw, in SAT, you start out at 400. You remember Tony Rice, the famous quaterback who won the National Championship for Notre Dame in 1988? He is the prop 48 poster child.



In football/bb, nobody cares about schools outside of the Power-5 conference. You should also ask Khalil Mack if he ever graduated from University of Buffalo. Watching his interviews on TV, he sound like a man with an 7th grade education.
Trying hard to get you to look at things a little differently, because in many ways we are on the same page, but I differ from you in perceptions. I'll try again:

According to the NCAA, average sports graduation rates stand around 70% (I mentioned the actual stat and link above), thats in a 5 year period. For just the regular student body, its about 59%. This takes in all schools participating in NCAA sports. This would tell me that there are benefits to sports engagement for students who participate, and that sports can help in the development of students. Again, looking at data and not individual sensationalized ESPN news coverage.

Reference to U of Buff has nothing to do with an individual player, but the fact that the athletic department has POURED money into their football program in hoops of getting a return. Like many MAC schools, this has backfired and caused them to be in the red thus impacting other sports (they recently cut Baseball). Its an example, but the general perception that football is some mass money maker is a misunderstanding of college sports. There are a handful of schools that make money off their football and basketball programs, and the others suffer under the weight of the elephant called "expensive" sports that rate no revenue. Add in budgets for more women's sports and equal scholarships, and you see why many schools had to cut their mens tennis teams (Colorado, Kansas, Kansas State, West Virginia, Pitt, Syracuse, Washington State, Oregon State, I could go on and on...) They blame title nine, and that certainly plays a small role, but it really is the demands of keeping up with the Jones's on the football front. U of Buff is a classic example of what has happened and there are lots of links an articles to find if you look. SIU Edwardsville is a another great example recently where "revenue" sports have become budget drainers and killed off the other sports programs. Just in your community do some research on the University of Maryland tennis program, oh forgot, they killed it. How about UMBC, yup that ones gone too.

For tennis success, yes, some money backing can help some players get the additional training they need. Every sport has expensive camps and equipment (a huge business) that their parents chase in order to fulfill their kids (and their) dream. Yes, I am very familiar with Jr tennis on all levels, and certainly there are many successful kids who got there because their parents could afford "extra's". Do you think Payton and Eli Manning got to where they are by growing up in the ghetto? Its in every sport. Parents who have money will pay to get their kids to be great, but to make blanket statements and say things like "Dr's and Lawyers" plays into the stereotypes of tennis from yesteryear, and does a disservice to the sport and people trying to learn about it. Plus, isn't entirely accurate. And, the majority of success stories come through mentorship, and not money. Hard to put data on that, but just my personal experience with the sport (over 35 years). I think the sport needs more of this, but instead we just make it harder for Jr's to get it, and more expensive.

So, back to the premise of the thread "idiots playing college tennis". Sure, there are bad students, and "rich" kids out there that get in schools on tennis, just like they do in any sport they can. But, as we are all tennis fans and want the game to grow we can certainly take some solace that tennis isn't a sport that breads that kind of behavior, at least statistically. Maybe your community in Maryland gives that perception, but around the country its a great sport to play that needs more support from all of us, and has a ton of hanging fruit for potential. Tennis teaches mental toughness, handling adversity, winning, losing, championship mentality, playing individually, playing with a team, time management, concentration; and not to mention extreme athleticism not seen in many sports. Did I mention the sport can be a tool to played your whole life bringing key social skills into play? Should be an awesome sport for any kid to get into, but instead we treat it like a recreation sport played by foreigners, sissy's and rich kids, even though success nowadays isn't predicated on those things. The end result, we change scores, try to make everyone a winner, try to understand it with the lens of how we understand other high school sports, and create false narratives about players in order to explain what we don't understand. This thread is so dumb, it makes me angry it would even be asked or argued, but I feel a strong obligation to at least help others understand the perspective. Data is data, and all it shows is that there are a lot of tennis players out there from many diverse backgrounds who compete for their schools, go to class, have good grades, and are great representatives of the sport. Yes, you can cherry pick out whatever you want, but the data speaks otherwise. Do your own research, look at different successful players, I think you will be amazed at the results and be proud of the sport we all love.
 

borna coric

Semi-Pro
Trying hard to get you to look at things a little differently, because in many ways we are on the same page, but I differ from you in perceptions. I'll try again:

According to the NCAA, average sports graduation rates stand around 70% (I mentioned the actual stat and link above), thats in a 5 year period. For just the regular student body, its about 59%. This takes in all schools participating in NCAA sports. This would tell me that there are benefits to sports engagement for students who participate, and that sports can help in the development of students. Again, looking at data and not individual sensationalized ESPN news coverage.
You and I are on the same page but I see it with the glass half full because I went to a Power-5 school and did tutoring work for student athletes at the school. Where I am living and working now, I observe the followings:

- average sports graduation rate for student athlete stands around 70% but with a big caveat that nothing is created equally. If you look at a non-revenue generating sports like tennis, swimming, fencing, golf, rowing, lacrosse (mostly for white people), the graduation rate is almost 100%. These students know academic is the first priority. They also come from excellent academic background and families that stress the importance of education where sports is just a mean to get into a good college for a good education. If you only count football and bb in the graduation rate, it might be like 35% (probably with the exception of Stanford). How do you expect football/bb players to attend college with an 8th grade level?

- I have not met an idiot playing tennis, at least at the junior level, ever I live in the District/Maryland/Virgina (DMV) and all the top rank players in this area are also excellent students and most of them live in the DC NW, great falls, Langley, Bethesda and Potomac areas. You have to be very well off or wealthy to live in those areas. Will they become Tiafoe? Probably not, but I am willing to bet that some of them will make more money than Tiafoe will. I live in one of those mentioned neighborhood and the houses in the neighborhood are full of Doctors, Lawyers, hi-tech startup CEOs, house that go for about 3M+. The tennis clubs in the DMV area are making a killing because parents in this area have so much disposable income to provide the kids with extra activities like tennis. Will they become Fritz or Tiafoe? Definitely not, and they don't want to. That's NOT the goal.

Tennis imitates life. Most of the company CEOs are not Ivy graduate and come from humble background. Most kids who are good students and tennis players will not be the next Djoker or Tiafoe but they will do quite well and probably will make more money than Tiafoe

Lies, damned lies, and statistics
 

Nacho

Professional
You and I are on the same page but I see it with the glass half full because I went to a Power-5 school and did tutoring work for student athletes at the school. Where I am living and working now, I observe the followings:

- average sports graduation rate for student athlete stands around 70% but with a big caveat that nothing is created equally. If you look at a non-revenue generating sports like tennis, swimming, fencing, golf, rowing, lacrosse (mostly for white people), the graduation rate is almost 100%. These students know academic is the first priority. They also come from excellent academic background and families that stress the importance of education where sports is just a mean to get into a good college for a good education. If you only count football and bb in the graduation rate, it might be like 35% (probably with the exception of Stanford). How do you expect football/bb players to attend college with an 8th grade level?

- I have not met an idiot playing tennis, at least at the junior level, ever I live in the District/Maryland/Virgina (DMV) and all the top rank players in this area are also excellent students and most of them live in the DC NW, great falls, Langley, Bethesda and Potomac areas. You have to be very well off or wealthy to live in those areas. Will they become Tiafoe? Probably not, but I am willing to bet that some of them will make more money than Tiafoe will. I live in one of those mentioned neighborhood and the houses in the neighborhood are full of Doctors, Lawyers, hi-tech startup CEOs, house that go for about 3M+. The tennis clubs in the DMV area are making a killing because parents in this area have so much disposable income to provide the kids with extra activities like tennis. Will they become Fritz or Tiafoe? Definitely not, and they don't want to. That's NOT the goal.

Tennis imitates life. Most of the company CEOs are not Ivy graduate and come from humble background. Most kids who are good students and tennis players will not be the next Djoker or Tiafoe but they will do quite well and probably will make more money than Tiafoe

Lies, damned lies, and statistics
I think I get we you are coming from now, tennis players are statistically from functional backgrounds and support, thus this plays into the better results then other sports. I can get there with that, probably a different topic for a different day.

One thing no one has mentioned is that in college tennis 70% (current rate) of teams are foreign student based, so the lack of US players shows how little parents are even putting their kids into tennis. And given Jr tennis is unaffordable, unknown for many parents, difficult to understand, and not administered on the high school/public level at all (huge hanging fruit for tennis), goes to show the sport is struggling to even find idiots to play it. So this thread should read "idiots that could be playing tennis going into Lacrosse instead", because they aren't playing football either
 

10S Mom

New User
Francis Tiafoe and his brother got free access to courts, pros and competitive players. Whitney Osuigwe gets free court time at IMG because her dad and
uncle work there. Kids who do well
have advantages I can't hope to replicate.

I do three jobs so my player can have two private lessons/week and enter tournaments. My player competes against private school kids whose parents are part owners of the local academies or who can afford the $800/week to be members of the private club that houses another academy or their parents are club pros. This is the case without exception where we live.
My player's development is stunted by my income level and he or she is the one who needs a tennis scholarship the most to
afford college not the doctor or lawyer's kid.


Silly thing to get MAD about....And an uniformed statement to class tennis players as only from wealthy backgrounds, specifically Dr's and Lawyers, and as if tennis is somehow privileged only. This is the stigma of the 1930's through 60's that never goes away. Tennis is not a High School run sport, so it doesn't fit into a cookie cutter style as other sports which can be cheaply administered through the HS. Read about Arthur Ashe, Francis Tiafoe, Ernesto Escobedo, and countless others. Rarely will you hear things like wealthy parents, Dr's and Lawyers, and country clubs. What you will see in many cases is that tennis takes a mentoring program, and for many successful players: Fritz Harrison, and the above mentioned they had a parent mentor who helped them through. And considering you can count the amount of Americans in the top 100, the majority of players up there came from humble beginnings and in some cases poor countries. Just ask Djokovic.

And for Football and Basketball, these sports still have higher graduation rates then regular student bodies, so to classify them different is an indication of believing in all the sensationalism of ESPN and other sports reporting networks, and not the data. I would encourage you to look at some of the data on these sports. Sports in general is a great conduit to success, and much of what is talked about is sensationalized for the news, and because these athletes are in the spotlight.

Lastly, hate to tell you but Football and basketball are revenue sports in very few cases, mostly just the D-1 power 5 level, but not even that. Lots of schools out there. These sports can be huge drains on budgets, and mostly there because schools like to try and have them to accommodate alumni events and other sports events on campus. Ask the University of Buffalo how much money their football program generates for them.

Truly this whole discussion is misinformed, and ridiculously playing into the sports stereotypes.
Tiago
 

Nacho

Professional
Francis Tiafoe and his brother got free access to courts, pros and competitive players. Whitney Osuigwe gets free court time at IMG because her dad and
uncle work there. Kids who do well
have advantages I can't hope to replicate.

I do three jobs so my player can have two private lessons/week and enter tournaments. My player competes against private school kids whose parents are part owners of the local academies or who can afford the $800/week to be members of the private club that houses another academy or their parents are club pros. This is the case without exception where we live.
My player's development is stunted by my income level and he or she is the one who needs a tennis scholarship the most to
afford college not the doctor or lawyer's kid.



Tiago
Your issue has to do with the affordability of the game for Jr's, and very little to do with the implication of this thread. I certainly applaud what you and other parents do for their children to get them the appropriate lessons and instructions, but I would draw the line at implying that college players are potentially idiots coming from rich Dr's and Lawyers because of your personal struggles. 70% of college players are international students, many from modest backgrounds, and statistically as a whole some of the better student athletes out there. So, this would suggest that having your son in tennis gives him a great chance at playing with an educated and diverse group of players. International players who show promise are better organized in affordable tennis academies over seas, many times paid for by their local communities. Its why there are so many more international players fighting to be good at tennis, and surrounded by more competition. Its a struggle for any American player to even get a scholarship regardless of how many lessons their parents afford.

As far as the affordability of tennis (since you have brought this up), many players have situations where their parents have to work hard to try to provide for them to be successful. You hear countless stories about this in lots of other sports as well. The great thing about tennis is there is accessibility of good players at many different ages, who I am sure would love to play your son. If you believe just paying for lessons is the only way he will get better it will certainly be an expensive endeavor. But if he is really keen on being great, and has goals set in mind, there is no reason he can't pick up "free" matches with a variety of players and practice as much as possible. One of the best JR players I played with had no money, but would get out there and hit with anyone, played with all kinds of adults, was good enough and nice enough that he would always be invited to play. He figured it out, got help and mentorship from some older players, and ended up playing D-1 on a full scholarship, going on to be a successful coach of professional players. The thing lacking for Jr players in tennis is the type of mentorship that exists in other sports because it is provided for "free" by the High School. A good football coach will take good players under his wing, thats his job. These kind of coaches don't exist in High School tennis, thus why the standard approach of other sports doesn't work for tennis; hence you find yourself chasing expensive lessons.
 

borna coric

Semi-Pro
MOST football players made below 700 on the SAT? I would like to see the documentation that supports this preposterous claim.
Here is the NCAA prop 48: The History of D-I Eligibility Requirements

The NCAA enacted Proposition 48 in 1986. With "prop 48", the NCAA established eligibility requirements that student-athletes had to meet upon signing a National Letter of Intent with the college/university. Prop 48 mandates that in order for a student-athlete to qualify to play in Division I athletics as a Freshman, the athlete must carry a minimum 2.0 grade point average (GPA) in 11 core courses and a combined 700 score on the SAT.

https://www.fastweb.com/student-life/articles/ncaa-s-clearinghouse-rules-who-s-looking-out-for-the-student-athlete

Have you ever been around football players? Most of them couldn't read at grade level and don't even know geometry when they start college. That's why you have prop 48. You need to go to SE of the District of Columbia or Baltimore city schools and see that for yourself.
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
Here is the NCAA prop 48: The History of D-I Eligibility Requirements

The NCAA enacted Proposition 48 in 1986. With "prop 48", the NCAA established eligibility requirements that student-athletes had to meet upon signing a National Letter of Intent with the college/university. Prop 48 mandates that in order for a student-athlete to qualify to play in Division I athletics as a Freshman, the athlete must carry a minimum 2.0 grade point average (GPA) in 11 core courses and a combined 700 score on the SAT.

https://www.fastweb.com/student-life/articles/ncaa-s-clearinghouse-rules-who-s-looking-out-for-the-student-athlete

Have you ever been around football players? Most of them couldn't read at grade level and don't even know geometry when they start college. That's why you have prop 48. You need to go to SE of the District of Columbia or Baltimore city schools and see that for yourself.
You claimed that most football and basketball players score below 700 on the SAT. I asked for documentation. Instead, you produced a reference to 700 SAT being a minimum requirement. Do you want to try again, or withdraw the preposterous claim?
 

borna coric

Semi-Pro
I did tutor in math and science for student-athlete at a Power-5 school and just about all of the starters on the football and basketball players have below college reading and math level. My sister was also a tutor at another Power-5 school for student-athlete and she said the same thing. That's why the NCAA has prop 48 for a reason.
 
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