If 2003-2007/08 a weak era then what is 2014/15-2019?

MoralTruth

New User
Federer gets called a weak era champion and hated on but when it comes to Djokovic and even Sampras fans he didn’t have it easier with Murray as a main rival for 2 full years according to some of Sampras with Agassi out...
Double standards or what?
 
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Sport

Legend
Peter Sampras,
Tell that to Djokovic fans they would get upset over saying he had it weaker at any point and call Roddick/Hewitt mugs.
Roddick and Hewitt are worse tennis players than Nadal and Djokovic. So it is common sense that facing Roddick or Hewitt in Slam finals represents a weaker oposition than facing Nadal and Djokovic.

Now, all Slams have the same historical value. So it is irrelevant whether a Slam title had strong or weak opposition.
 

MoralTruth

New User
Peter Sampras,

Roddick and Hewitt are worse tennis players than Nadal and Djokovic. So it is common sense that facing Roddick or Hewitt in Slam finals represents a weaker oposition than facing Nadal and Djokovic.

Now, all Slams have the same historical value. So it is irrelevant whether a Slam title had a strong or weak opposition.
But not apply the same to Djokovic or Nadal until maybe more recently for the times they faced lesser oppenents.
 

ForehandRF

Professional
Nah no way. You could argue the weakest since the AO became a proper major though.
Yeah, you are right, I didn't took into consideration the AO before it became a proper major.Do you have better examples than Johansson ? :)
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Yeah, you are right, I didn't took into consideration the AO before it became a proper major.Do you have better examples than Johansson ? :)
I'd probably say Brian Teacher and Mark Edmondson were worse players. Johansson won a masters title and while the masters series as it is now didn't exist back then all the other titles those two won were small in comparison - the Canadian masters Johansson won has a lot of history.
 

Lew II

Hall of Fame
What's your objective method to measure competition?

With my methods I have 2017-19 on par with 2004-06 and 2014-16 stronger than 2004-06.
 

MoralTruth

New User
What's your objective method to measure competition?

With my methods I have 2017-19 on par with 2004-06 and 2014-16 stronger than 2004-06.
You look the form of players in events and match quality. Number of great matches etc etc.
I disagree with 2017-19 is anywhere near 2004-2006.
 
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Lew II

Hall of Fame
You look the form of players in events and match quality. Number of great matches etc etc.
I disagree with 2017-19 is anywhere near 2004-2006.
Show me precisely your criteria.

How do you measure form of players, great matches, etc.
 

MoralTruth

New User
riteria.

How do you measure form of players, great matches, etc.
If two players are going toe to toe and hitting great shots throughout the span of a long period of a match against a dangerous in form player. For example Djokovic-Nadal Wimbledon 2018 or Federer-Nadal AO 2009 or Djokovic vs Federer RG 2011 etc etc.
Checking winners to error to forced error counts while accounting for surfaces and play styles and how the player is moving If a player is missing shots all over the place you know it’s a lower quality match. Example. Djokovic vs a Nadal AO 19 (from Nadal) or Djokovic vs Murray (Wimbeldon 2013)
 

Lew II

Hall of Fame
If two players are going toe to toe and hitting great shots throughout the span of a long period of a match against a dangerous in form player. For example Djokovic-Nadal Wimbledon 2018 or Federer-Nadal AO 2009 or Djokovic vs Federer RG 2011 etc etc.
Checking winners to error to forced error counts while accounting for surfaces and play styles and how the player is moving If a player is missing shots all over the place you know it’s a lower quality match. Example. Djokovic vs a Nadal AO 19 (from Nadal) or Djokovic vs Murray (Wimbeldon 2013)
Show me how 2004-06 is better than 2014-19 with this criteria.
 

MoralTruth

New User
Show me how 2004-06 is better than 2014-19 with this criteria.
I will edit later and show you example and point out the quality matches in a tournament comparison to show you a example. I didn’t actually stay a period was stronger or weaker here by why it should be applied to Federer but not Novak.
 

Lew II

Hall of Fame
Slam matches won by 10 players (since 2003)

2012 - 161
2009 / 2015 - 159
2014 - 154
2011 - 153
2010 - 151
2007 - 149
2016 / 2018 - 147
2013 - 144
2003 - 142
2019 - 140
2006 - 138
2005 / 2008 / 2017 - 136
2004 - 127

2003-08 average --> 138
2014-19 average --> 147.2
 

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
From 1997 to 2002 you had plenty Johnansson like players in slam finals. And Sampras fans mock Roger for Gonzo,Scud etc etc.
I legit think there's an argument to be made for the 90's being weaker than the 2000s, the big differences is that guys like Nalbandian, Tsonga, Berdych and players like that didn't win a Slam due to the Big 4.
 

MoralTruth

New User
Show me how 2004-06 is better than 2014-19 with this criteria.
To show a short example i will compare 2005 with 2019 at the slams by looking some noteworthy matches in both.
AO 2005-Had Safin-Federer in the SF. AO 2019 had 2 blowout SFs. The final between Safin and Hewitt was well matched but Djokovic blew out Nadal in AO 19 easily with Nadal being in poor form too in the final.
FO 2005-Had Federer-Nadal SF,Puerta 3 5 setters in a row,Nadal-Puerta final. In RG 19 you had a Nadal-Thiem final,Federer-Wawrinka,Wawrinka-Tistipias.
Wimbdeldon 2005-Had a Federer-Roddick final while Wimbeldon 2019 had a dramatic Djokovic-Federer final.
USO 2005-Had a Federer-Agassi final and Federer-Hewitt SF and Agassi had a 5 setter with Blake which was a classic. In USO 2019 you had Med-Nadal in the final
This is just a short example of how you can compare by looking at what happened in the tornaments obviously it would take a while if i did this for the whole 5/6 year period or so.
 

Lew II

Hall of Fame
To show a short example i will compare 2005 with 2019 at the slams by looking some noteworthy matches in both.
AO 2005-Had Safin-Federer in the SF. AO 2019 had 2 blowout SFs. The final between Safin and Hewitt was well matched but Djokovic blew out Nadal in AO 19 easily with Nadal being in poor form too in the final.
FO 2005-Had Federer-Nadal SF,Puerta 3 5 setters in a row,Nadal-Puerta final. In RG 19 you had a Nadal-Thiem final,Federer-Wawrinka,Wawrinka-Tistipias.
Wimbdeldon 2005-Had a Federer-Roddick final while Wimbeldon 2019 had a dramatic Djokovic-Federer final.
USO 2005-Had a Federer-Agassi final and Federer-Hewitt SF and Agassi had a 5 setter with Blake which was a classic. In USO 2019 you had Med-Nadal in the final
This is just a short example of how you can compare by looking at what happened in the tornaments obviously it would take a while if i did this for the whole 5/6 year period or so.
I see only your opinion on matches.

Show me an objective criteria that you use to compare years. If you want an example check post #26.
 

MoralTruth

New User
I see only your opinion on matches.

Show me an objective criteria that you use to compare years. If you want an example check post #26.
Yeah it is a opinion but those are the significant matches in the tornament like finals and semis.
Post 26 isn’t fully objective it is your opinion too that top 10 wins are a way to look at a stronger field. You have to look at what happens in matches because level can change.
 

Third Serve

Hall of Fame
I know, but it's better to know them. Then everyone can freely form his own informed opinion.
One stat that I think is pretty interesting is a look at the skill cap of each spot in the top 10 over the years. For example, #6-ranked Davydenko in 2009 won the WTF and an additional Masters 1000 while #6-ranked Rainer Schuttler in 2003 won just two ATP titles (though he did also make a Slam final) to secure the spot. I would probably focus on Big tournaments instead of collecting points from all ATP tour events just to single out the players who didn't vulture low-tier tournaments to improve in the rankings.
 

OhYes

Legend
Federer gets called a weak era champion and hated on but when it comes to Djokovic and even Sampras fans he didn’t have it easier with Murray as a main rival for 2 full years according to some of Sampras with Agassi out...
Double standards or what?
Murray was just one of 3 Djokovic had to deal with. Compare those 3 with anything Fed had in 03-07 and you have clear winner.
 

MoralTruth

New User
Murray was just one of 3 Djokovic had to deal with. Compare those 3 with anything Fed had in 03-07 and you have clear winner.
Was Murray doing so much better vs Djokovic from 2014 to early 16 than a lot of guys Federer was facing? He was in 2012 but that’s a different story. Murray only got one win that time frame and 3 overall from 2014/15 to 2019.
 

Spencer Gore

Hall of Fame
2003-07 is now firmly established in most knowledgable tennis fans minds as the weakest era in many decades. But Federer can't be blamed for being the only ATG operating at full capacity.

2014-19 will be looked back on as the era when the three most decorated players in tennis history battled it out for supremacy.
Final score:
Djokovic: 10 slams
Nadal: 6 slams
Federer: 3 slams
 

Lew II

Hall of Fame
2003-07 is now firmly established in most knowledgable tennis fans minds as the weakest era in many decades. But Federer can't be blamed for being the only ATG operating at full capacity.

2014-19 will be looked back on as the era when the three most decorated players in tennis history battled it out for supremacy.
Final score:
Djokovic: 10 slams
Nadal: 6 slams
Federer: 3 slams
2000-03 was worse than 2004-07.

Hewitt 80 weeks #1, come on...
 
2003-07 is now firmly established in most knowledgable tennis fans minds as the weakest era in many decades. But Federer can't be blamed for being the only ATG operating at full capacity.

2014-19 will be looked back on as the era when the three most decorated players in tennis history battled it out for supremacy.
Final score:
Djokovic: 10 slams
Nadal: 6 slams
Federer: 3 slams
"firmly established in most knowledgable tennis fans" hahahaha
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
2003-07 is now firmly established in most knowledgable tennis fans minds as the weakest era in many decades. But Federer can't be blamed for being the only ATG operating at full capacity.

2014-19 will be looked back on as the era when the three most decorated players in tennis history battled it out for supremacy.
Final score:
Djokovic: 10 slams
Nadal: 6 slams
Federer: 3 slams
Correction: 03-07 is considered weak by Fed haters and trolls such as to yourself.

who’s battling in 2014-2016? Djokovic at his peak vs declined Fedal and Murray LOL. No competition.
 

Third Serve

Hall of Fame
2003-07 is now firmly established in most knowledgable tennis fans minds as the weakest era in many decades. But Federer can't be blamed for being the only ATG operating at full capacity.

2014-19 will be looked back on as the era when the three most decorated players in tennis history battled it out for supremacy.
Final score:
Djokovic: 10 slams
Nadal: 6 slams
Federer: 3 slams
1997-2002 was worse by a mile.

And 2007 deserves to be up there with 2008-2013.
 

MoralTruth

New User
I legit think there's an argument to be made for the 90's being weaker than the 2000s, the big differences is that guys like Nalbandian, Tsonga, Berdych and players like that didn't win a Slam due to the Big 4.
I’d say 1990-1995 was powerful. Those 3 players and Ferrer who you listed are underated.
 

Third Serve

Hall of Fame
I legit think there's an argument to be made for the 90's being weaker than the 2000s, the big differences is that guys like Nalbandian, Tsonga, Berdych and players like that didn't win a Slam due to the Big 4.
Late 90's, yeah. But the early 90's was very strong. I think at one point the top 5 was Becker, Lendl, Edberg, Sampras, and Agassi all together.
 

MoralTruth

New User
Weak era posts are just disrespectful trolling posts and would be laughed at by the pros.

That being said factually speaking Sampras had to deal with the highest amount of peers who were Major winners. He faced Lendl, Becker, Edberg, chang, courier, agassi, stich, muster, bruguera, kuerten, moya, rafter, kafelnikov, safin, hewitt, federer.

To have achieved 6 YE1s and won a slam in 2002 to end his career having faced all of those players was sensational.
Sampras a great champion but his fans and Djokovic fans started this.
He did dominate good opponents on the level of Nadal and Djokovic. Agassi isn’t as good as those two.
 
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