FiddlerDog
Hall of Fame
Makes no sense!
If ATP pros use Gut/Poly, why do rec 3.5 and 4.0 players use Poly/Poly ?
- Thread starter FiddlerDog
- Start date
antony
Hall of Fame
cost is a big factor. sponsorship is a big factor. most pros take their strings more seriously than typical rec players. they've played more so they know more how they play with different strings. they also depend on their strings for their livelihoods so they won't as easily compromise on what they find is best for their game, assuming they're at a level where they can afford such a luxury.
gold325
Hall of Fame
ATP players use their rackets for 30 minutes or less on average before restringing. They also play what is best for their game since it's a game of inches for them. Mostly free for them.
Rec players decisions by peer recommendations, colors, random TW talk threads, price & other random reasons and it's a game of in the court or out for them sometimes... Some people even play poly since it will never break with their swing and play for a full year.....
Rec players decisions by peer recommendations, colors, random TW talk threads, price & other random reasons and it's a game of in the court or out for them sometimes... Some people even play poly since it will never break with their swing and play for a full year.....
Booger
Hall of Fame
All you need to play high level amateur tennis is a $20 second hand frame made in the last 25 years and $4 worth of fresh syn gut. Sounds pretty boring.
Anything above and beyond that is just for fun. Hitting with poly is fun, even though it dies faster than one of those goldfish you win at the fair.
But yeah, it's kind of stupid, especially at the lower levels where they get 0 benefit from the spin potential and stiffness, anyway. There are worse consumerism crimes, like the out of shape 50 year olds I see every weekend cruising around town on $8k carbon road bikes lol.
Anything above and beyond that is just for fun. Hitting with poly is fun, even though it dies faster than one of those goldfish you win at the fair.
But yeah, it's kind of stupid, especially at the lower levels where they get 0 benefit from the spin potential and stiffness, anyway. There are worse consumerism crimes, like the out of shape 50 year olds I see every weekend cruising around town on $8k carbon road bikes lol.
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I mean, a lot of rec players can get away with stringing poly once every .5-2 years and won't notice it deadening because it happens so slowly. Almost anyone will break syn gut faster than that.
I still recommend syn gut or hybrid to most people I string for, but I get the appeal for weekend warriors
I still recommend syn gut or hybrid to most people I string for, but I get the appeal for weekend warriors
I see only the hardcore recreational players use full beds of poly. Most players at my club use synthetic gut and multifilaments. I’m sure the poly users are secretly on TTW. They cut their strings every two weeks and they dress up like their favourite players. You can easily see who is Federer, Nadal or Djokovic from their attire and mannerisms. They are very funny to watch. There is one who has even copied the haircut of Federer.
AceyMan
Professional
I'm going to using this line on customers who *have* to play poly.
But, all seriousness aside, I say a natural gut hybrid is the best value in stringjobs if you live in a climate where you can reliably use it.
/Acey
jmacdaununder2
Legend
FiddlerDog
Hall of Fame
Can you link to your preferred soft smooth poly ?
Westerwick
Rookie
Signum Pro Polaris and Isospeed Grey Fire work well for me.
One nice aspect of the Gut/Poly is that I can change out the poly part way through the gut life. Just have to be careful cutting out the poly knots so you don’t inadvertently notch the gut. I also reverse the stringing side so that the previously buried gut intersections are outside and now impact with the ball. You pretty much have to string your own since not many commercial stringers would do this for you, unless of course they want to keep you around as a repeat customer.
FiddlerDog
Hall of Fame
I find the poly slices through the gut like a knife.
I never got more than 5 hours with gut/poly
Westerwick
Rookie
Both of these are round and smooth, and I have not seen that problem. The basic mechanics are that the mains slide over the crosses for most strokes, so if you have a twisted or shaped poly it will saw through the gut fairly quickly. My experience with the coated Babolat and Klip guts are that the poly doesn't cut the gut quickly at all.
AceyMan
Professional
This works a treat.
I currently do it for myself and my close hitting buddies.
Once I'm sure there are no gotchas or downsides I'll start offering the option to regular customers who play gut hybrids.
/Acey
(I'm the only stringer in town who even stocks & strings natural gut, fwiw.)
Westerwick
Rookie
One other thing I am going to experiment with is using a "cross gut" instead of the second half of the expensive gut package. I've picked up a handful of cross gut packages, which are about half the price per length of the expensive gut packages, costing me less than $10 each on sale. Given how long the gut lasts, it will be a while before I could report back on this. Does anyone else have experience with this approach?
FiddlerDog
Hall of Fame
Yea, Cyclone Tour 16 is twisted sharp like a barbed wire fence.
I need to get a new soft poly.
FiddlerDog
Hall of Fame
Not sure what you mean. You're gonna pay 50% for 20' gut, or 100% for 40'. Same price
Westerwick
Rookie
Maybe I didn't explain it quite right. The cross gut from a major reputable manufacturer costs me about $9 for a 6 m section. The cheapest I can find any quality gut 12 m pack is $26 on sale, and usually quality gut from any reputable producer (translate: not from India on the big auction site) costs $32 to $45. The cross gut is then about a half the price of a half set of regular gut.
Westerwick
Rookie
The big gotcha is that you have to be very careful cutting out the ending knots for the cross. I was sloppy doing that recently with a poly that I was testing (seeing if a different cross would help it in a hybrid) and notched the main, so it was going to be a super weak spot and probably break immediately. It was not big loss on the string since I really didn't think much of it anyway, but the lesson about being extra careful was more valuable.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
What % of pros use a gut/poly hybrid these days? I thought it is mostly guys in their mid-late thirties and the majority of younger players use fullbed poly on the ATP singles tour. In any case, it has no relevance to what rec players should use.
What is cross gut? A Brand? Is it just gut leftover from the mains when you do 2 pieces?
You put the gut on the cross? So cut out the main and weave new poly through the gut cross? that doesn't too good for a racket
Westerwick
Rookie
Some of the companies sell a kind of second grade gut that you can use on the cross, since it doesn't have to be the same quality as the main. That is why it is half the price
The best guy ever does so it seems many might want to copy that.
Westerwick
Rookie
No, of course not. I think the standard terminology has been [main type]/[cross type]. Gut is the main. Remove the poly cross. Replace it. Easy to do since you always have the cross anchored to the mains, which remain in place. I realize there are some pros who have Poly/Gut combinations, but I can't envision how this would make sense for most of us mortals.
Nate7-5
Hall of Fame
Then you have to factor in the $15-$20 cost of a restring, and I have to restring OG Sheep much faster than natural gut. I'll stick with the Klip.
AceyMan
Professional
Umm, yeap.
Good light, good tools, and "look thrice, cut once" gets you through almost every time.
/Acey
I'm the only one who who strings natural gut in my area. It's starting to become my niche audience. But that's no bad place to be, actually; on account of lots of serious tennis players are in that cadre.
Booger
Hall of Fame
But if you want it on the cross youre not feeling the gut at all. And if youre putting it on the mains youre just feeling the benefits of a cheap gut. But I dont think youre putting it on the cross, and you just said its not the same quality as a main so what is the point? You may know Mains/Cross dont impact feel 50/50 I forget the actual number but its somewhere 70/30 in favor of the main so if it were me I would get a nice string in the mains and cheaper in the cross like youre referring to, but you also said in another post you cant imagine doing poly/gut combo
I'm planning to use gut/poly throughout Spring/Summer from here on, with a full synthetic gut frame as a back-up in case of string breakage. Still working out what to use in winter out of multi/poly, poly/multi, syn/poly, poly/syn or just full synthetic gut.
I think a lot more recreational players should use natural gut. A lot of people I play are not hitting very hard, or with much spin, so natural gut would last them a long time, would be much more comfortable, and would probably help their shots.
Westerwick
Rookie
Gut/Gut: high quality gut in both main and cross. Expensive, but good performance
Gut/Cross gut: high quality gut in main, lower quality in cross. Less expensive than Gut/Gut, with very similar performance
Gut/Poly: high quality gut in main, poly in cross. Much less expensive than either of above, sacrifices a little performance. Maybe. You could make a case that it has some advantages over a full gut bed
Poly/Gut: poly main, gut cross. About the same cost as Gut/Poly, a few pros use this but can’t see any role for this for the rest of us who have to pay for our racquets and stringing.
I never mentioned Cross gut/Gut, since this would have the same cost as Gut/Cross gut with inferior performance, so nobody would use or recommend that combination. Makes no sense to do this.
It is nearly impossible to replace mains and leave the crosses intact, so I never said that. Easy to replace crosses if you are careful.
Gut/Cross gut: high quality gut in main, lower quality in cross. Less expensive than Gut/Gut, with very similar performance
Gut/Poly: high quality gut in main, poly in cross. Much less expensive than either of above, sacrifices a little performance. Maybe. You could make a case that it has some advantages over a full gut bed
Poly/Gut: poly main, gut cross. About the same cost as Gut/Poly, a few pros use this but can’t see any role for this for the rest of us who have to pay for our racquets and stringing.
I never mentioned Cross gut/Gut, since this would have the same cost as Gut/Cross gut with inferior performance, so nobody would use or recommend that combination. Makes no sense to do this.
It is nearly impossible to replace mains and leave the crosses intact, so I never said that. Easy to replace crosses if you are careful.
FiddlerDog
Hall of Fame
How did you arrive at this data
AceyMan
Professional
Nailed it.
But I'll go you one better.
As the quote implied, if you don't hit hard (*actually* hard) then NG lasts longer and pays you back.
Now consider: the best player in my area goes thru stings pretty fast because he hits legit—I've played him.
Lately he has been dealing with a shoulder injury.
What is he playing?— VS 16 mains and YPTP crosses (in a new VCP97/310).
Yes it costs some more and yes he'll pop it faster than anyone I know... and still he *still* chooses it over other combinations (I didn't sell him on this, btw, he came to me already using that setup).
/Acey
Tennis Warehouse did a comparison video of RPM Blast 15L vs Wilson's Champion's Choice and they listed the string bed stiffness as 151 for gut/poly.
FiddlerDog
Hall of Fame
AceyMan
Professional
Relatively low among all polys, statistically, but not the very softest, no.
This guy hits hard and will soften up the YPTP easily enough. When you hit hard (5.5+) you actually have a use for stiff strings. (Cf., Nadal, et al).
I had natural gut/YPTP yellow in a hybrid and it wasn't uncomfortable at all. Had it in there about 10 weeks. Felt amazing.
If Top ATP pros use their own jet to travel why do some youtubers drive around different states to play against each other and even record it?
Gut is too expensive.
There is always great deals for some solid poly (eg. $6.5 lynx tour).
Not related to the topic but some 3.5 rec baseliners are too easy to break multi. String labor is too expensive for multi.
I only strung gut once and it feels great! I wish some day $45 + string labor + tax is as easy as a can of soda to me.
Gut is too expensive.
There is always great deals for some solid poly (eg. $6.5 lynx tour).
Not related to the topic but some 3.5 rec baseliners are too easy to break multi. String labor is too expensive for multi.
I only strung gut once and it feels great! I wish some day $45 + string labor + tax is as easy as a can of soda to me.
So you put gut/cross gut? Im just trying to understand your set up. Have you done gut/syn gut?
Westerwick
Rookie
I haven’t experimented with a Gut/Syn Gut setup
I'm planning to try natural gut mains syn gut crosses at some point. My logic is this: with both full syn gut and nat gut/syn gut hybrid, the strings will move and get stuck out of place. If that will happen with both set-ups, I might as well benefit from natural gut mains. I don't want the power of full natural gut, I'd like the synthetic gut crosses there to reduce the power slightly.
AceyMan
Professional
Good thinking. Upgrade the plain syngut to AK Pro CX, 6Starstring, Vanquish, etc..
It's still affordable and can offer a discernable update to the feel.
FiddlerDog
Hall of Fame
beltsman
G.O.A.T.
I think that rec users benefit from poly in a different way. It keeps the ball in the court by virtue of being dead. Doesn't even require snapback. Gives the player more control even on slow strokes. People prefer this to launching into the back fence.
