If Djokovic beats Nadal at FO, who is better on clay- prime Djokovic or prime Federer

[NadalAgassi]

If Djokovic was able to beat Nadal in the French Open final who would you consider the better clay courter- prime Djokovic or prime Federer. Prime Federer has a French Open title and several other finals, along with 5 Masters titles. Djokovic would have a French Open title, and no other finals, and only 3 Masters titles. However Djokovic has already beaten Nadal back to back in straight sets on clay, something Federer was never close to good enough to doing to Nadal on clay even in Federer's prime. Obviously if he beat Nadal in the French Open final he would have done it 3 times in a row. Federer has beaten Nadal only twice on clay, both times well spread out (2 years and many meetings on clay apart). Djokovic also has won Rome twice which is the biggest event outside Roland Garros, and which Federer never won (nor Monte Carlo the 3rd biggest).

 

[USERNAME]

If Djokovic was able to beat Nadal in the French Open final who would you consider the better clay courter- prime Djokovic or prime Federer. Prime Federer has a French Open title and several other finals, along with 5 Masters titles. Djokovic would have a French Open title, and no other finals, and only 3 Masters titles. However Djokovic has already beaten Federer back to back in straight sets on clay, something Federer was never close to good enough to doing to Nadal on clay even in Federer's prime. Obviously if he beat Nadal in the French Open final he would have done it 3 times in a row. Federer has beaten Nadal only twice on clay, both times well spread out (2 years and many meetings on clay apart). Djokovic also has won Rome twice which is the biggest event outside Roland Garros, and which Federer never won (nor Monte Carlo the 3rd biggest).

Djoker. 10 char

 

[jackson vile]

Who ever voted Federer is delusional LOL

 

[rh310]

Nadal is post-prime. Djoko beating him at FO has little bearing on the question in the OP.

 

[kishnabe]

I would say Federer in his prime without Nadal in question would be the better clay courter. Djokovic without Nadal in question would be a good clay courter. Though Federer had the game to beat Nadal...couldn't mentally but Djokovic has the mental aspect.

It is all about matchups....Prime Federer vs Prime Djokovic on clay...Federer wins!

 

[Tennis_Monk]

Who ever voted Federer is delusional LOL

Yes. even "if" Djoker wins FO this year, that will make him one time winner of FO and no finals appearences.

Roger M Federer already won one FO and has multiple final appearences.

Picking him is delusional....yeah.....rite.

 

[Lsmkenpo]

What if Federer beats Djokovic at the FO but loses to Nadal in the finals?

 

[theagassiman]

I think for the moment, you will have to go with Federer, as he has been in more clay finals than Djokovic. But I think in the end the only time when this debate can be finally settled is at the end of their careers.

 

[Manus Domini]

Who ever voted Federer is delusional LOL

Federer beat Nadal twice in Rafa's CC prime, Novak didn't...

 

[USERNAME]

I think for the moment, you will have to go with Federer, as he has been in more clay finals than Djokovic. But I think in the end the only time when this debate can be finally settled is at the end of their careers.

I really didnt think about it like that at all lol, Im only looking at 2011 Djoko and not as a whole. Oops!

 

[wy2sl0]

Just compare the way the two are playing. Roger never moved and defended as well as Djoker has been. Sure, he is more surgical with his forehand, noone is disputing he still has the best of all time, but Djoker is more complete player on clay, especially since Roger's serve advantage is negated.

 

[tenis1]

Counting finals does not make too much sense since it depends on the draw too much.
Djokovic was stopped by Nadal on RG in 2006, 2007 and 2008. How do you know he wouldn't have made it to the final one of these years if he was on the other side or the draw?

 

[jackson vile]

Federer beat Nadal twice in Rafa's CC prime, Novak didn't...

We will know 100% come FO, if Nole beats Rafa their we know that Federer can't even compare.

 

[SStrikerR]

Why are people saying Nadal is past his prime? He just won 3 slams LAST YEAR.

Excuses, excuses...

 

[Ray Mercer]

If they were both to play each other on clay it would be close. Djokovic just matches up far better with Nadal than Federer. Djokovic's rally backhand is better than Federer's. Federer in his prime had just as good of defense as Djokovic and his forehand was better than Djokovic's. On another note Djokovic has just been kicking Nadal's ass lately.

 

[Tennis_Monk]

Why are people saying Nadal is past his prime? He just won 3 slams LAST YEAR.

Excuses, excuses...

All said and done, Djoker hasnt beat Rafa on a clay Slam yet.
So far Rafa lost 4 master series finals to a guy in superb form.

SLams are different beast. sure Djoker can win it--sure he can lose as well.

So one loses a few finals and all of a sudden , the guy is past his prime .

 

[RalphDUD]

Nadal is post-prime. Djoko beating him at FO has little bearing on the question in the OP.

A guy who won 3 of the last 4 grand slams and last year went undefeated on clay. This year has not lost to anyone except Djoker is post prime? I think your shift at McDonalds is about to begin.

 

[Manus Domini]

We will know 100% come FO, if Nole beats Rafa their we know that Federer can't even compare.

With this Rafa, we won't know

 

[The-Champ]

Federer by a mile. Prime Federer on clay would obliterate current Nadal. Federer was very unfortunate to have played against Nadal during the spaniard's best years on clay.

 

[tennis_pro]

Federer by a mile. Prime Federer on clay would obliterate current Nadal. Federer was very unfortunate to have played against Nadal during the spaniard's best years on clay.

This. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling himself.
2011 Nadal is still a great clay courter but not the monster he was a couple years ago.

 

[Netspirit]

+1. Federer played Nadal when the guy was a blossoming clay-court specialist: legs, forehand and backhand. Djokovic has the luxury of playing a veteran all-courter.

 

[Buckethead]

Federer beat Nadal twice in Rafa's CC prime, Novak didn't...

Are you sure about it??
anybody who knows a little know that Nadal is clearly on his prime, however the contenders got better and they all have 2 handers, unlike Fed, different match up.

 

[powerangle]

Would the current Djokovic be able to beat 2008 RG Nadal? Me thinks not.

 

[NadalAgassi]

Would the current Djokovic be able to beat 2008 RG Nadal? Me thinks not.

I agree, but since Federer managed only 4 games against that Nadal this hardly means anything. Didnt Djokovic get 12 games off Nadal in the same event btw.

 

[RalphDUD]

This. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling himself.
2011 Nadal is still a great clay courter but not the monster he was a couple years ago.

So that monster back then who never won more than 2 GS in the year is much better than the one who is the holder of 3 and last season swept clay season and this year won 1 masters on clay? I'm failing to see any explanations other than people just stating it to be true with nothing backing it up.

 

[RoddickAce]

Djokovic, this is coming from someone who is more of a Fed fan than a Djoker fan.

 

[tennis_pro]

So that monster back then who never won more than 2 GS in the year is much better than the one who is the holder of 3 and last season swept clay season and this year won 1 masters on clay? I'm failing to see any explanations other than people just stating it to be true with nothing backing it up.

We're talking about clay, not general results on all surfaces.

2008 Nadal on clay owns 2011 Nadal on clay and would probably beat 2011 Djokovic on clay (would be a great match).

 

[NadalAgassi]

We're talking about clay, not general results on all surfaces.

2008 Nadal on clay owns 2011 Nadal on clay and would probably beat 2011 Djokovic on clay (would be a great match).

In which case Djokovic is still better than prime Federer on clay since Federer took only 1 out of 8 sets off Nadal on clay in 2008, and previous years to that did not do much better.

 

[The-Champ]

Are you sure about it??
anybody who knows a little know that Nadal is clearly on his prime, however the contenders got better and they all have 2 handers, unlike Fed, different match up.

dude what djokovic does on clay today wouldn't bother prime federer. You seem to have a very short memory. Federer was just as fast and his fh was miles better than current djokovic. He had a much better serve. Djokovic has a steadier bh, but federer had more variation on the bh, you know how well federer handled power games in his prime. Djokovic is lucky today with an old federer and a sub-par, a half-step slow and no bh nadal.

 

[namelessone]

Are you sure about it??
anybody who knows a little know that Nadal is clearly on his prime, however the contenders got better and they all have 2 handers, unlike Fed, different match up.

Yes, after SIX SEASONS of dominating clay, Nadal is in his prime

 

[NadalAgassi]

Prime Federer was having alot of trouble with a very young Djokovic on hard courts, so imagine on clay. I still wouldnt suggest at all that prime Djokovic is better than prime Federer on hard courts, but I could certainly imagine him being a nightmare for prime Federer on clay playing like he is now.

 

[danb]

NOLE - no djoke.

 

[Double_Fault]

Federer bagelled Nadal on clay. And on grass.

He is better.

 

[tennis_pro]

In which case Djokovic is still better than prime Federer on clay since Federer took only 1 out of 8 sets off Nadal on clay in 2008, and previous years to that did not do much better.

Dude a 30-year old Federer took a set off Nadal this year on clay. As for this Djokovic being better than prime Federer on clay - completely hypothetical, you can provide 100 arguements for or against and still won't have an answer.

 

[Pwned]

In which case Djokovic is still better than prime Federer on clay since Federer took only 1 out of 8 sets off Nadal on clay in 2008, and previous years to that did not do much better.

So Nadal isn't playing worse than previous years on clay?

 

[tenis1]

Would the current Djokovic be able to beat 2008 RG Nadal? Me thinks not.

2008 Djokovic played quite competitive match vs 2008 Nadal in Hamburg. Took a set should have won in two actually, but could not keep up in the third. So I would not be so sure.

 

[CocaCola]

If he does, than it's Djokovic and there is nothing to argue about. Prime Fed wasn't able to win 2 sets vs Rafa in Paris.

 

[SoBad]

Djokovic. Wow, that was easy.

 

[NadalAgassi]

Dude a 30-year old Federer took a set off Nadal this year on clay.

That still doesnt change the fact Federer barely made any impression on Nadal on clay even when Nadal was Federer was in his own prime. Lets say 2005-2008 was Federer's clay court prime. Nadal went 9-1, 25-9 in sets. No 5 setters at Roland Garros. If the current Djokovic were to even be as competitive with 2008 Nadal on clay as you propose in the part I quoted, that would already be much better than prime Federer was (especialy considering 2008 Nadal was better than 2005, 2006, or even 2007 Nadal).

 

[NadalAgassi]

So Nadal isn't playing worse than previous years on clay?

Of course he is playing worse than 2008 or 2010. However he probably is still playing atleast as well as 2005 or 2006 when he was only 18 or 19. And yet even peak Federer of those years couldnt dream of beating that Nadal in straight sets on clay, never mind twice in a row (as it was he didnt beat Nadal either of those years on clay even once).

 

[tacou]

arguments tend to boil down to slams here, and as stated Federer has a better record at FO than Djokovic, and also more Masters than Djokovic. by those facts you go with Roger easy.
however Roger never beat Nadal in best of 5 on clay, so in this hypothetical situation Djokovic has that edge..but that's a very subjective edge. so far Roger has far more clay credentials than Djokovic, even if Novak has an imaginary FO.

 

[T1000]

Is Soderling better than both since he beat Nadal at the FO?

 

[NadalAgassi]

Is Soderling better than both since he beat Nadal at the FO?

Soderling's FO win over Nadal on clay was a one off, an aberration in the big picture of things. He has been destroyed by Nadal every other time they played on clay, including such drubbings as a 6-1, 6-0 defeat and a spanking in their biggest ever meeting on clay. And the fact Nadal missed Wimbledon a month later injured arguably puts the result into a certain context as well. Djokovic is a whole other story entirely. He has beaten Nadal twice in straight sets on clay, and the wins were consecutive as well. He has taken sets off Nadal in most of their other matches on clay since 2008. And Nadal was fully fit for virtually all those encounters.

 

[SoBad]

Is Soderling better than both since he beat Nadal at the FO?

No, he's not, he's just not, sorry.

 

[Pwned]

Of course he is playing worse than 2008 or 2010. However he probably is still playing atleast as well as 2005 or 2006 when he was only 18 or 19. And yet even peak Federer of those years couldnt dream of beating that Nadal in straight sets on clay, never mind twice in a row (as it was he didnt beat Nadal either of those years on clay even once).

Thanks for the expert opinion.

 

[Spider]

Who is to say this is Djokovic's prime? We are assuming considering his improvement. But I have a feeling he will get better with time (a very very scary proposition for opponents).

 

[Manus Domini]

Are you sure about it??
anybody who knows a little know that Nadal is clearly on his prime, however the contenders got better and they all have 2 handers, unlike Fed, different match up.

I said CC prime, as in prior to his knee injury when he wasn't losing CC tourneys before RG.

He's in his GC and HC prime, certainly. I won't argue that. But I believe his CC days are numbered. And his GC and HC days will follow.

 

[BigForehand]

the only reason fed lost to ****** is because he is an abusing exploiter against the 1hbh, got nothing to do with Fed not being good on clay.