If Djokovic loses in straight sets to a qualifier on his best surface how can he have been a lock to win a slam?

intrepidish said:
I'm not sure that I follow...

The fact that Djokovic lost to a qualifier in straight sets in a tournament where he presumably slept in a proper hotel and had plenty of solid preparation for the tournament establishes that he was a lock to win 7 matches when he was just coming back from covid and sleeping in a detention center?
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It means that had they let him play, and had he faced anyone other than Vesely, it might have ended like the Khachanov match yesterday.

Even Rafa might not have been able to scoot by (we'll never know...), but the Djoker backhand cannot set up properly against JV.
 
Aabye5 said:
It means that had they let him play, and had he faced anyone other than Vesely, it might have ended like the Khachanov match yesterday.

Even Rafa might not have been able to scoot by (we'll never know...), but the Djoker backhand cannot set up properly against JV.
Click to expand...

It might have and it also might not have.

The fact that Djokovic lost to a qualifier in straight sets in a tournament where he slept in a hotel and had solid preparation for the tournament stands in stark contrast to the AO where he had just had covid and was sleeping in a detention center.

Anything can happen even in ordinary conditions much less those conditions as you start to get older. Djokovic has lost to players like Istomin and Chung at the AO and has 9 titles in the 18 years since he's been entering the tournament which is awesome but far from a lock.
 
A couple thoughts:
  1. I agree with the idea that players prioritize certain events more than others. That said, Djokovic fans will totally ignore that someone like Nadal simply doesn't prioritize the post-USO swing (unless it's necessary to finish YE #1), so make of that what you will.
  2. Djokovic after getting screwed by insane Australia clearly had something to prove at this event, and clearly wanted to hold on to No. 1, so this is a bad loss.
  3. Djokovic could be headed downward. Remember that after Serena lost to Roberta Vinci in her own attempt at a CYGS around the same age, she only won 4 more events ever, and yes two were majors but her draws were really weak for the most part,
  4. Now we are a going to hear a lot of subtle Australian Open trolling by posters dissecting minor differences in hardcourt surfaces, ugh.
 
FrontHeadlock said:
It's a way for them to make inane distinctions between different hardcourts so as to prove the importance of the AO even though it's by far the least prestigious Major.
Click to expand...

I'm waiting for a detailed break-down of the hard court kingdom so I know which ones count as hard court for these lofty purposes.
 
intrepidish said:
It might have and it also might not have.

The fact that Djokovic lost to a qualifier in straight sets in a tournament where he slept in a hotel and had solid preparation for the tournament stands in stark contrast to the AO where he had just had covid and was sleeping in a detention center.

Anything can happen even in ordinary conditions much less those conditions as you start to get older. Djokovic has lost to players like Istomin and Chung at the AO and has 9 titles in the 18 years since he's been entering the tournament which is awesome but far from a lock.
Click to expand...

He's probably salty. Whether you agree or disagree with him, it can be hard to play when you are salty.
 
intrepidish said:
I'm waiting for a detailed break-down of the hard court kingdom so I know which ones count as hard court for these lofty purposes.
Click to expand...

Seriously.

Nadal is 4-1 in the USO finals, and 2-4 in the AO finals with two of the AO losses being from a break up in the fifth. He's literally a handful of games away from being the exact same player at both events.

Yet Djokovic fans will have you believe that the conditions between the two are so divergent as to mimic RG and W in the 70s.
 
FrontHeadlock said:
Seriously.

Nadal is 4-1 in the USO finals, and 2-4 in the AO finals with two of the AO losses being from a break up in the fifth. He's literally a handful of games away from being the exact same player at both events.

Yet Djokovic fans will have you believe that the conditions between the two are so divergent as to mimic RG and W in the 70s.
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If Nadal is as terrible as I consistently hear that he is from Djokovic fans, it's truly an unbelievable black mark on Djokovic's resume that he lost twice to him in US Open finals.
 
intrepidish said:
It's too early to say how much Djokovic's well documented case of covid will impact him going forward.
Click to expand...

You mean the one with the wonky paperwork? or the Adriatica case? Maybe if he needs it for an exemption, he'll get a third case too.

That said, losing one early match does not a season make.
 
abhi_trip said:
Tennis match-ups don't work like that. It seems that the OP is biased against Novak Djokovic.
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Hi! I'm the OP and while I have tremendous regard for Mr. Djokovic's ability on a tennis court I don't have tremendous regard for 'locks' particularly when Mr. Djokovic was just returning from covid and sleeping in a detention center and has lost to both Chung and Istomin at the AO in the past 5 years for example.

Losing to a qualifier today in straight sets in spite of better preparation is a cautionary tale...
 
intrepidish said:
In 2022, if there's are important facts that can't be changed they are:

Djokovic lost the AO 2022 and then lost to a qualifier in straight sets in his next tournament in his return from a case of covid
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This is highly misleading, but I will not object.
But wait, Nadal won a slam in his first serious tournament after overcoming a not so mild covid infection.
 
Sudacafan said:
This is highly misleading, but I will not object.
But wait, Nadal won a slam in his first serious tournament after overcoming a not so mild covid infection.
Click to expand...

Nadal had been vaccinated and Djokovic had merely pressed several pieces of bread against his stomach in his fight against covid.

Also, Djokovic insisted on alternative accommodations for this year's AO which, while free of charge courtesy of the Australian government, may have made his preparation less effective...
 
intrepidish said:
Nadal had been vaccinated and Djokovic had merely pressed several pieces of bread against his stomach in his fight against covid.

Also, Djokovic insisted on alternative accommodations for this year's AO which, while free of charge courtesy of the Australian government, may have made his preparation less effective...
Click to expand...
At this moment, I could not defend Djokovic, even if he said the Earth is round. I know it's wrong and I can't help it.
 
FrontHeadlock said:
A couple thoughts:
  1. I agree with the idea that players prioritize certain events more than others. That said, Djokovic fans will totally ignore that someone like Nadal simply doesn't prioritize the post-USO swing (unless it's necessary to finish YE #1), so make of that what you will.
  2. Djokovic after getting screwed by insane Australia clearly had something to prove at this event, and clearly wanted to hold on to No. 1, so this is a bad loss.
  3. Djokovic could be headed downward. Remember that after Serena lost to Roberta Vinci in her own attempt at a CYGS around the same age, she only won 4 more events ever, and yes two were majors but her draws were really weak for the most part,
  4. Now we are a going to hear a lot of subtle Australian Open trolling by posters dissecting minor differences in hardcourt surfaces, ugh.
Click to expand...


I missed this earlier but it was a solid post with some interesting points.
 
intrepidish said:
If Djokovic loses in straight sets to a qualifier on his best surface how can he have been a lock to win a slam?

Please explain....
Click to expand...
Because he has(had) PASSION like NOBODY before him or
anyone ever will presume to have ..
AND if you werent aware of this youre
a tennis NOOB and need to
shut yourphuck up!
Then there was that nagging #conspiracy...
 
Last edited:
He won’t be slam record holder if Nadal gets to 22 or 23 I can pretty much promise that. His decline is actually more imminent than nadal’s because he lacks the loopy topspin. Djokovic relies more on movement and defense than Nadal. Djokers only shot is to collect a few more Wimbledons and judging by last years form I don’t think that’s guaranteed anymore either. I think Djoker will begin losing to guys like berretini at Wimbledon soon
 
Sampras-Bruguera 1993 said:
He won’t be slam record holder if Nadal gets to 22 or 23 I can pretty much promise that. His decline is actually more imminent than nadal’s because he lacks the loopy topspin. Djokovic relies more on movement and defense than Nadal. Djokers only shot is to collect a few more Wimbledons and judging by last years form I don’t think that’s guaranteed anymore either. I think Djoker will begin losing to guys like berretini at Wimbledon soon
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Yep… his career is collapsing like a house of cards since the Olympics. What an awful 6 months.

Either he learns to start hitting his FH 90mph every shot or he ends with a whimper.
 
The importance of the event matters a lot. And not all hard court surfaces are the same, which explains why it took Djoker until 2018 to win Cinci. It also explains why Federer was only 2-3 vs Roddick at Canada and the Miami Open, yet 19-0 at all of the other events

But let's examine Djoker on Plexicushion and GreenSet since 2008 at the AO:

79-5, .940 overall, which includes the following:
9-0 in finals
9-0 in semis
5-0 vs Murray
4-0 vs Federer
2-0 vs Nadal
16-0 vs the top 5

by comparison, here's Nadal's record at the FO since 2008:
84-3, .966 overall, which includes the following:
10-0 in finals
10-1 in semis
5-2 vs Djokovic
3-0 vs Federer
2-0 vs Murray
14-2 vs the top 5

Now granted, Nadal is the gold standard for dominating a slam event. But Djoker is no slouch at all at the AO. He's been a stone-cold killer at the AO; plain and simple.

Note; Nobody is a "lock" for winning an event. But Djokovic would have been a large favorite against the entire field, had he been allowed to play the 2022 AO.
 
Pheasant said:
The importance of the event matters a lot. And not all hard court surfaces are the same, which explains why it took Djoker until 2018 to win Cinci. It also explains why Federer was only 2-3 vs Roddick at Canada and the Miami Open, yet 19-0 at all of the other events

But let's examine Djoker on Plexicushion and GreenSet since 2008 at the AO:

79-5, .940 overall, which includes the following:
9-0 in finals
9-0 in semis
5-0 vs Murray
4-0 vs Federer
2-0 vs Nadal
16-0 vs the top 5

by comparison, here's Nadal's record at the FO since 2008:
84-3, .966 overall, which includes the following:
10-0 in finals
10-1 in semis
5-2 vs Djokovic
3-0 vs Federer
2-0 vs Murray
14-2 vs the top 5

Now granted, Nadal is the gold standard for dominating a slam event. But Djoker is no slouch at all at the AO. He's been a stone-cold killer at the AO; plain and simple.

Note; Nobody is a "lock" for winning an event. But Djokovic would have been a large favorite against the entire field, had he been allowed to play the 2022 AO.
Click to expand...

Why would you not include Nadal's 2005-2007 RG titles?

I mean, I know, why, but the extra three titles is a large reason as to why he's the gold standard. A lifetime record of 105-3 is a win pct. of 97.22%. Meanwhile even if you exclude Djoker's 2005 AO and simply judge him from the same age (19), he is 82-7 and his win pct. is 92.13%. At those percentages a 5% swing is massive.
 
intrepidish said:
If Djokovic loses in straight sets to a qualifier on his best surface how can he have been a lock to win a slam?

Please explain....
Click to expand...
blame the aus govt
and
how？
u r too silly
if djoker is given an option unlike at ao, he can win everything on hardcourt and for sure at ao
this is THE logic
 
FrontHeadlock said:
But aren't you ignoring the circumstances? Having been prevented from playing the AO, and needing to do well to retain his No. 1 ranking, surely he'd have a lot of incentive to do well, no? Are you saying he tanked? Didn't prepare? What, exactly?
Click to expand...
He had incentive to retain but he had not played a competitive match since November 20th. I'm sure he didn't come to lose but again, a mix of lack of form and adversity plus being away from the game didn't help matters. It makes the season more interesting actually.
 
FrontHeadlock said:
But aren't you ignoring the circumstances? Having been prevented from playing the AO, and needing to do well to retain his No. 1 ranking, surely he'd have a lot of incentive to do well, no? Are you saying he tanked? Didn't prepare? What, exactly?
Click to expand...

One would think Novak would have been better prepared for Dubai than he would have been just coming off COVID and detention at the AO.
 
Mike Sams said:
He had incentive to retain but he had not played a competitive match since November 20th. I'm sure he didn't come to lose but again, a mix of lack of form and adversity plus being away from the game didn't help matters. It makes the season more interesting actually.
Click to expand...

Rafa hadn't played a competitive match since Washington in August '21 and he is 12 - 0 this year .... not even on his best surface. So Djoko has no excuse.
 
intrepidish said:
If Djokovic loses in straight sets to a qualifier on his best surface how can he have been a lock to win a slam?

Please explain....
Click to expand...

Jiri Vesely is a consummate pro, he rarely loses, like Philipp Kohlschreiber & Andreas Seppi, opponents must beat them. He may not have the weapons of higher ranked pros, but he will rarely be an ‘easy-out’ type of player. Just not in his nature, same goes for the other guys.
Djoker didn’t play well today. Simple as that.
 
Pheasant said:
The importance of the event matters a lot. And not all hard court surfaces are the same, which explains why it took Djoker until 2018 to win Cinci. It also explains why Federer was only 2-3 vs Roddick at Canada and the Miami Open, yet 19-0 at all of the other events

But let's examine Djoker on Plexicushion and GreenSet since 2008 at the AO:

79-5, .940 overall, which includes the following:
9-0 in finals
9-0 in semis
5-0 vs Murray
4-0 vs Federer
2-0 vs Nadal
16-0 vs the top 5

by comparison, here's Nadal's record at the FO since 2008:
84-3, .966 overall, which includes the following:
10-0 in finals
10-1 in semis
5-2 vs Djokovic
3-0 vs Federer
2-0 vs Murray
14-2 vs the top 5

Now granted, Nadal is the gold standard for dominating a slam event. But Djoker is no slouch at all at the AO. He's been a stone-cold killer at the AO; plain and simple.

Note; Nobody is a "lock" for winning an event. But Djokovic would have been a large favorite against the entire field, had he been allowed to play the 2022 AO.
Click to expand...
I disagree. With a lot of commotion surrounding him (less practice, attending the court and explaining himself so he can participate etc) and all the confusion how is he going to perform his best? Don’t you think that all that will drain him a lot ?
A little bit of dip in performance and there are high probability that he will get beaten.
 
Rattler said:
Jiri Vesely is a consummate pro, he rarely loses, like Philipp Kohlschreiber & Andreas Seppi, opponents must beat them. He may not have the weapons of higher ranked pros, but he will rarely be an ‘easy-out’ type of player. Just not in his nature, same goes for the other guys.
Djoker didn’t play well today. Simple as that.
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I don’t agree. Djokovic didn’t play poorly at all.
 
Djokovic will never be a lock for a slam again. Not at 35+, he will still be the strong favourite at Wimbledon if he plays though
 
Rattler said:
Jiri Vesely is a consummate pro, he rarely loses, like Philipp Kohlschreiber & Andreas Seppi, opponents must beat them. He may not have the weapons of higher ranked pros, but he will rarely be an ‘easy-out’ type of player. Just not in his nature, same goes for the other guys.
Djoker didn’t play well today. Simple as that.
Click to expand...
Did you watch the match?

I can't think of too many higher ranked pros who have weapons like the Vesely serve...
 
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