If Djokovic remains at 24 slams, is it fair to say Djokovic's passing shot down BP in the 2018 Wimbledon SF is the most consequential shot in history?
- Thread starter weakera
- Start date
GRASScaraz
Hall of Fame
Djokovic would have broken back anyway
prosperned
Professional
No. I feel AO12 is a more important legacy match.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
That was not even a game point though, and earlier in the 5th set
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
4-2, 30-15
TennisGrandpA
Legend
Disagree , Novak was the right winner by a very close margin , reason is simple Nadal was defensive whenever he had a chance , on a set point in 3rd set he kept going CFH to Novak’s Bh instead of taking a chance to go FH DTL , Novak hammered the ball ultimately, In 5th set he has many bps and he could have capitalise one one of them. Novak took his chances ,Nadal didn’t , also his return on many bps didn’t help much.
TennisGrandpA
Legend
It was an easy peasy passing shot by Novak’s standard , had he missed it would have been deemed a choke.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
I do think that the 2018 Wimbledon semi final between Nadal and Djokovic was the most important match in terms of the major count. I honestly believe that Djokovic would be on around 15 majors today had Nadal won that match. Djokovic believed that destiny was with him after he won, so he went on another surge.
Another huge one was the 2014 Wimbledon final between Djokovic and Federer.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
I think a few are seeing that now.
BauerAlmeida
Legend
Huge point. Djokovic could fewer slams without that one.
Another big one is the set point saved in the 3rd set of the RG 2021 semifinal.
Another big one is the set point saved in the 3rd set of the RG 2021 semifinal.
TennisGrandpA
Legend
Read my above post i addressed that
TennisGrandpA
Legend
Djokovic and Nadal would be tied at 23 if not for Djokovic's ridiculous forehand return winner match point save in the 2011 US Open semifinal against Federer. People forget that Federer was a full-fledged pidgeon to Nadal at every slam at that stage of their careers, and Nadal would have undoubtedly defeated Federer at the 2011 US Open final were it not for Djokovic's clutch heroics.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic not taking the Vaccine is what helped Nadal reached 22 slams, so I am not sure in the grand scheme of things Wimbledon 2018 is that significant.
Djoker should be easily above 25 today, if it was Federer in his place then he would be 25+.
We dont need to credit Nadal for helping Novak reach 24 because Nadal himself received help from Scott Morrison. Had Novak won AO 2022 then Nadal's confidence level in FO 2022 would not be that great to bag that Slam, not saying Rafa would lose for sure but the odds would be 50-50... so maybe Nadal should be on 20 tied with Federer or maybe Federer should be on 21 (wimbledon 2019) and Nadal should be on 20 in an ideal world. Djokovic was always going to reach 24, it is written in his destiny by God, he was the chosen one to surpass Federer by God. As Novak's mother put it so clearly after Wimbledon 2019... it was God that saved Novak from Federer.
Djoker should be easily above 25 today, if it was Federer in his place then he would be 25+.
We dont need to credit Nadal for helping Novak reach 24 because Nadal himself received help from Scott Morrison. Had Novak won AO 2022 then Nadal's confidence level in FO 2022 would not be that great to bag that Slam, not saying Rafa would lose for sure but the odds would be 50-50... so maybe Nadal should be on 20 tied with Federer or maybe Federer should be on 21 (wimbledon 2019) and Nadal should be on 20 in an ideal world. Djokovic was always going to reach 24, it is written in his destiny by God, he was the chosen one to surpass Federer by God. As Novak's mother put it so clearly after Wimbledon 2019... it was God that saved Novak from Federer.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
In any case, as far as slams go, the difference between the big 3 comes down to like 4 points lol. One of the reasons I don't believe Novak is the undisputed best ever. And that's without even getting to timing and circumstances.
I suspect if it was your favourite player holding the record you might contend differently.
TheAssassin
G.O.A.T.
I mean we could also select some other pressure points from different matches over the years and say they were crucial for Nadal to keep it closer. I guess it is natural that more focus is given on the close matches won by Djokovic as the winner of the whole race, but he narrowly missed out on some Slams too.
For what it's worth I think the 2014 Wimbledon final had a more crucial effect. He was always reaching finals but failing at the last hurdles a bit too much. Whether he won the 2018 Wimbledon semifinal or not it was by far his best tournament after two years of mediocrity. The return was inevitable.
For what it's worth I think the 2014 Wimbledon final had a more crucial effect. He was always reaching finals but failing at the last hurdles a bit too much. Whether he won the 2018 Wimbledon semifinal or not it was by far his best tournament after two years of mediocrity. The return was inevitable.
DSH
Bionic Poster
Which approach to the net was worse, Nadal's in the 2018 Wimbledon semifinals or Federer's in the 2019 Wimbledon final, both against Djokovic?
DSH
Bionic Poster
Without a doubt, the biggest robbery in the history of tennis this century.
Nadal would have beaten Federer at the 2011 US Open, make no mistake.
DSH
Bionic Poster
Turning Pro
Hall of Fame
This is precisely why the GOAT race is so tight.
It's all subjective. Yeah someone got the records but so did Roy Emerson....
All 3 are up for contention based on era, peak and records obviously.
A few breakpoints, backhands, roofs, wind, forehands, swings, temperatures, crowd noise, wind etc are fine margins, especially when it's 24-22-20. It's not like 22-14 Sampras margins.
It's all subjective. Yeah someone got the records but so did Roy Emerson....
All 3 are up for contention based on era, peak and records obviously.
A few breakpoints, backhands, roofs, wind, forehands, swings, temperatures, crowd noise, wind etc are fine margins, especially when it's 24-22-20. It's not like 22-14 Sampras margins.
There is no subjectivity about the fact that Djokovic hit those clutch winners and went on to win more slams.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Yep and I wouldn't be any more or less correct
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
BauerAlmeida
Legend
Djokovic's clutchness was crucial many times.
- USO 2011
- Wimbledon 2018
- Wimbledon 2019
- RG 2021
- USO 2011
- Wimbledon 2018
- Wimbledon 2019
- RG 2021
TennisGrandpA
Legend
Exactly! Why do you think there are so many proxy threads like Sinner 2025 vs Roddick, Carlos is worse than Hewitt etc etc , peak this vs peak that.
But hey, atleast he saved 285 million grandparents. amiright?
TennisGrandpA
Legend
You forgot AO 2012, he played near perfect from baseline after Nadal broke him in the 5th and Nadal himself was matching him from baseline.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Yep. We know what the real agenda is.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
I have always maintained the belief that the outcome of Wim18 was inconsequential. Just being in a match like that proved that Novak was back. Honestly, he was back the moment he decided to actually get the elbow surgery instead of retiring. Once he made that choice, his return to the top was inevitable.
He came back too early in the spring and it was disastrous. But things were already improving throughout the clay season, and then it culminated on the grass. If he lost that SF then all it would've done is prove to himself that he can play on Rafa's level and given just a little bit extra motivation for the USO, which ended up being an easy win. From there I can't imagine 2019-23 playing out any differently.
He came back too early in the spring and it was disastrous. But things were already improving throughout the clay season, and then it culminated on the grass. If he lost that SF then all it would've done is prove to himself that he can play on Rafa's level and given just a little bit extra motivation for the USO, which ended up being an easy win. From there I can't imagine 2019-23 playing out any differently.
gamelovergold
Hall of Fame
Joker who triump against the king and his sucessor.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Sampras- Federer-Nadal-Djoko margins are 13-16-14-12
On their 30th birthday ...
We should not say 22-14 when we compare with Sampras because we are giving an impression that big 3 were 50% better than Sampras when reality is nothing like that.
D
Deleted member 827468
Guest
yes, true, again numbers are not the whole story, its like saying schuminator and hamilton are 2x better drivers than senna just coz 7 vs 3, but de facto its super super close between them, same story with pete and big three, they just inflated their numbers (overrated) thats it
gamelovergold
Hall of Fame
Big 3 were not 50 % better than Sampras.
But you can not take away what they acheived. 20 22 24 is way bigger than 14 but in Sampras era 14 was big enough number.
And if we hide big 3 numbers next candidate murray and stan are on 3 each.
So bottom line is big 3 over acheived.
messiahrobins
G.O.A.T.
Don't understand stuff like this. Why is AO 2019 final ignored. I'd say if people want to pick a match that swung the Slam race to Djokovic AO 2019 Final.was the one. A Final is ALWAYS more consequential than a SF.
I was at that match In person. Djokovic GOATED that day and put in a performance up there with Nadal 2008 at RG and Sampras 1994 at the WTF v Medvedev I think it was and McEnroe 1984 at W. To humiliate a fellow GOAT contender in that manner was truly something to see. Rafa got his revenge in Paris but both matches showed actually the gulf in class between them on Hard and Clay At their best. I wonder if Sinner and Alcaraz may turn out similar.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
In a way Djokovic remaining on 24 slams probably makes it more agonising for Fedal fans. Those matches that were separated by a hair in djokodal and Fedovic matches in djoko favour swung it his way. If not djoko wouldn’t have won the most.
It really was fine margins but makes it all the sweeter in the end!
It really was fine margins but makes it all the sweeter in the end!
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
While it was close and I understand what you saying we still got an overall winner. It was fine margins but facts are facts. In years to come Djokovic will be talked about first ahead of the others because he has the most big records of the 3.
Nadal will always be mentioned due to clay as his records are insane there so Rafa fans will be happy about that. It probably fed fans who will be most worried as he might end with nothing left in terms of holding records but we will see.
messiahrobins
G.O.A.T.
Not For me lol. Not sure about other Nadal fans but 2022 was when Rafa won the Big 3 debate. RG2022 sealed it. I'll forever be grateful for that one match. Different strokes for different folks but for me had the roles been reversed and Rafa have the slam record but had lost a match to Djokovic as big as RG 2022 with all the drama surrounding it when there was only 1 slam between them at the time and Rafa had lost to gon2 behind but then eventually got the record with Novak off the tour injured personally I'd feel the Slam record was a bit hollow. As I say everyone is different but for me 2022 sealed the deal for Rafa being top dog of his era and I was quick to pick up on Alcaraz from then on having seen the IW SF match between him and Rafa.In a way Djokovic remaining on 24 slams probably makes it more agonising for Fedal fans. Those matches that were separated by a hair in djokodal and Fedovic matches in djoko favour swung it his way. If not djoko wouldn’t have won the most.
It really was fine margins but makes it all the sweeter in the end!
I will never say Rafa, Roger or Novak are GOAT now as Alcaraz has appeared...and Sinner too although I maintain Alcaraz will win more slams than Sinner
