If Djokovic wins the final, he'll become grass goat contender

existential dread

Professional
Grass GOAT or Wimbledon GOAT?

They aren't necessarily the same thing.

One could argue Sampras is the Wimbledon GOAT while Federer is the grass GOAT.

By the way, Djokovic will be neither.
 

TripleATeam

G.O.A.T.
4th best, at best. 1. Federer 2. Sampras 3. Borg 4. Djokovic

And that's at Wimbledon specifically - there are players that played when there was much more grass in the schedule, and would still have more slams on grass. Can't be bothered to see who, though.

With another 3 titles after this one? At that point, still no. Federer would have more finals. With another 4 Wimbledon titles after winning this one? Yeah, sure. But there's no way that's happening. No chance in hell.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
And what does grass GOAT even mean in an era where grass has almost disappeared. Two of the 4 semifinalists didn’t even bother to play warmup events ahead of Wimbledon. Would any one skip playing clay matches ahead of the FO or HC matches ahead of the USO or the AO?
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
And what does grass GOAT even mean in an era where grass has almost disappeared. Two of the 4 semifinalists didn’t even bother to play warmup events ahead of Wimbledon. Would any one skip playing clay matches ahead of the FO or HC matches ahead of the USO or the AO?
In fairness, Sampras didn't really play grass warmups either.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
Nah, he can't stand at the top but he will be among the very very best to have done it on this surface if he wins.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
But that‘s my point. You have lots of Wimbledon winners that skip warmup events. I don’t see that happening in any of the other slams
I take that back. He did play quite a few Queens tourneys. I thought he skipped a lot of them but I was wrong.

So you are saying how can there be a grass GOAT when so little tournaments are played on it? Ok I see.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
I take that back. He did play quite a few Queens tourneys. I thought he skipped a lot of them but I was wrong.

So you are saying how can there be a grass GOAT when so little tournaments are played on it? Ok I see.
There are few tournaments and many top players skip even the few available. It’s a very marginal surface compared to HC or clay. I know that wasn’t always the case but it is today.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
There are few tournaments and many top players skip even the few available. It’s a very marginal surface compared to HC or clay. I know that wasn’t always the case but it is today.
Yea it was pretty marginal in the 90s as well and I guess we would have to go back in the 70s and 80s for it to be different, but that was before most of our time or before we started watching tennis. There's only like 6 tournaments on it today, played in a month span so you have a point.
 

chimneysweep

Semi-Pro
No. He’s only a slight favorite against almost 38 year old Federer.
Djokovic himself is 32. It is not like either is a spring chicken. The way mens tennis is going Djokovic will probably be a contender at 38 too; I hope not as that means we will probably continue having crappy up and coming generations, but sadly I am becoming cynical in that regard.
 

romeo8880

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic himself is 32. It is not like either is a spring chicken. The way mens tennis is going Djokovic will probably be a contender at 38 too; I hope not as that means we will probably continue having crappy up and coming generations, but sadly I am becoming cynical in that regard.

Well if that ends up being the case he will pass Roger’s slam count
 

chimneysweep

Semi-Pro
Well if that ends up being the case he will pass Roger’s slam count
I dont care about that one way or the other so much (not a big Roger fan like I am guessing you are). What I care most about is that we dont continue having Generation Lost or Generation Sucks moving forward. Surely the next generation with some talent and the needed drive and determination (eg not Kygrios clones), even if not Big 3 duplicates, has to be coming at some point right? I am becoming increasingly cynical about that though, and it is my biggest worry of all.

If Djokovic is contending at 38 as Roger is now, while he would deserve some credit, it isnt a good sign the state of the younger players in the mens game has improved at all in the next 6 years. And if Nadal is at 38 with the state of his body then that would just be :-D to the state of the guys in their 20s.
 

weakera

G.O.A.T.
He won't be in the conversation yet but the potential would be there. 6-7 titles and 3-0 in finals against the guy with 8 would be tough to argue against. But a win tomorrow is a big ask, as is two more in the years to come.
 
Fed will still be the king of grass, even if Novak wins tomorrow! However, 5 Wimbledon’s and 3 final wins over the grass king, would elevate Novak’s status a lot. He’d tie Borg but I’d put him above him! So only Sampras and Fed would be above him then!
 

chimneysweep

Semi-Pro
Fed will still be the king of grass, even if Novak wins tomorrow! However, 5 Wimbledon’s and 3 final wins over the grass king, would elevate Novak’s status a lot. He’d tie Borg but I’d put him above him! So only Sampras and Fed would be above him then!
I put him behind Borg for now even if he wins tommorow. Borg won 5 straight, and 1 match from 6, which is a level of dominance well beyond Djokovic. He was in some of the all time great matches which I dont think Djokovic has even 1 of at Wimbledon so far. He won when it was fast grass. And he overall probably had tougher competition, 2 years of peak McEnroe, many years of peak/prime Connors, Tanner, Vitas G., is probably is tougher than old Federer and only a bit of Nadal (since Nadal isnt even good on grass most years this decade).
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
I put him behind Borg for now even if he wins tommorow. Borg won 5 straight, and 1 match from 6, which is a level of dominance well beyond Djokovic. He was in some of the all time great matches which I dont think Djokovic has even 1 of at Wimbledon so far. He won when it was fast grass. And he overall probably had tougher competition, 2 years of peak McEnroe, many years of peak/prime Connors, Tanner, Vitas G., is probably is tougher than old Federer and only a bit of Nadal (since Nadal isnt even good on grass most years this decade).
If Novak wins tomorrow he will also have 5 W and 1 match from 6. He beat 32 year old Federer in 2014 and 33 in 2015 who was quite the challenge. As a point of comparison that’s the age Nadal and Nole are this year and both completely dominated their favorite slam.

Nole also beat 25 year old Nadal who was the reigning Wimbledon champ at the time and had reached 5 consecutive W finals
 

chimneysweep

Semi-Pro
If Novak wins tomorrow he will also have 5 W and 1 match from 6. He beat 32 year old Federer in 2014 and 33 in 2015 who was quite the challenge. As a point of comparison that’s the age Nadal and Nole are this year and both completely dominated their favorite slam.

Nole also beat 25 year old Nadal who was the reigning Wimbledon champ at the time and had reached 5 consecutive W finals
Yes but 5 in a row and nearly 6 in a row is more dominant. Djokovic had numerous breaks between his wins, although he would have defended his title twice. Borg had much more sustained dominance.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
Yes but 5 in a row and nearly 6 in a row is more dominant. Djokovic had numerous breaks between his wins, although he would have defended his title twice. Borg had much more sustained dominance.
Winning X tournaments in a row points to consistency. Winning the same number of tournaments over time points to longevity. Both are important indicators for a player.
 
D

Deleted member 762049

Guest
It may come to pass that we have a GOAT of clay, one of grass, and one of hard courts. And the big three may wind up with roughly or exactly the same number of slams.
 
If Novak wins tomorrow he will also have 5 W and 1 match from 6. He beat 32 year old Federer in 2014 and 33 in 2015 who was quite the challenge. As a point of comparison that’s the age Nadal and Nole are this year and both completely dominated their favorite slam.

Nole also beat 25 year old Nadal who was the reigning Wimbledon champ at the time and had reached 5 consecutive W finals
They also didn’t have 2 of the best players of all time 5 years their junior and in their prime in the way.
 
Djokodal have each other. Fed had mugs sweeping slams in 2003-2007.
What? Try staying on your own topic.

You were talking about 2014 and 2015 and how that is roughly Djokodal’s age now. Insinuating that Fed should have won if they are winning this year. His competition was far stiffer those years.

Don’t just change the argument so childishly just because you don’t like it anymore.
 

CYGS

Legend
What? Try staying on your own topic.

You were talking about 2014 and 2015 and how that is roughly Djokodal’s age now. Insinuating that Fed should have won if they are winning this year. His competition was far stiffer those years.

Don’t just change the argument so childishly just because you don’t like it anymore.
Everything balances out. That's the only argument worth making.
 
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