If Federer dominated a weak era, then so have Nadal and Djokovic

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 307496
  • Start date Start date
Match performance vs. peak level of player: Federer was peak as a player in 2004-2007, but some of his best PERFORMANCES (where he took the most out of what was available in him that time):

1. Wimby 2015 SF
2. RG 2011 SF
3. USO 2004 F
4. AO 2007 SF
...

Taking a single match performance, and using that as a meter of the level of a player is just... SMH!
 
NatF said:
Tennis years are not all inherently the same. There is variation. I've tried my hand a couple of times at measuring objectively the strength of era's both looking at the Win/Loss of top 10-20 players and looking at the dominance of slam opponents. My conclusion was that Djokovic had the hardest competition with Nadal and Federer roughly the same.

Of course there are hypotheticals about how such and such player might have performed in certain scenarios. But I can at least try my hand at analyzing what actually occurred. I'm not saying I'm necessarily right but I think it's better than just saying it's impossible to compare.
Click to expand...

I disagree. You cannot quantify the strength of an era. There are too many things to consider and numbers don't give you the complete story. Statistics can be misleading.

So who is Djokovic's competition since 2012/2013? --- 31/34 year old Fed? A declining Nadal? Inconsistent Wawrinka? Injured DelPotro & Nishikori? Servebot Raonic?
Also, Wawrinka, Murray and Cilic would not have won majors during Federer's prime/peak.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
You can't say that Djokovic would never beat Federer at RG peak for peak just because of that defeat in 2011. What about Novak's win in straight sets the next year when Roger was just a month away from recapturing the #1 ranking?
Click to expand...


I don't even think Djokovic played his peak clay level in that match, let alone Federer. In fact, Fed wasn't really that great throughout the tournament, losing sets to Goffin, Mahut etc.

Anyways, saying Djokovic would never beat peak Fed is silly.
 
mattosgrant said:
Yet that is exactly what you are doing.
Click to expand...
Nope. I'm saying whether Federer of a certain year would beat Federer of another year, if you put them on court. The match performance would NOT be the same as it was in any real life match. All things, some random, would affect how that match would go. Clearly though, 2005-2009 Federer would be a strong favorite against 2011 Federer.
 
TommyA8X said:
I don't even think Djokovic played his peak clay level in that match, let alone Federer. In fact, Fed wasn't really that great throughout the tournament, losing sets to Goffin, Mahut etc.

Anyways, saying Djokovic would never beat peak Fed is silly.
Click to expand...

As silly as saying Djokovic is playing in a stronger era than Federer.
 
Numero Uno said:
we can argue and analyse all those players,but in rogers era you have roddick,hewitt,nalbandian and in these era you have nadal,murray,wawrinka,djokovic,federer,del potro..todays era is BY FAR stronger
Click to expand...

Roger won 14 majors after Rafa won his first major. So think again which era is Rafa part of.

For that matter Fed has won 6 majors after Novak won his first major. How many has Novak won till now ? 14 or 16 ?
 
As I already mentioned 32 year old Virigina Wade beat peak Chris Evert at Wimbledon. So based on some Federer fanboy logic in this thread, this is proof Wade would have been the heavy favorite, maybe never lost to Chris, at Wimbledon prime for prime. :lol:
 
Numero Uno said:
and you are GOAT when you have h2h againt biggest rival 10-23?
Click to expand...
When the ATP changes tennis to two men's race, H2H will be an important measurement of greatness. Unfortunately for you and some other trolls, you do not receive a trophy for having a good H2H against someone. Guess what players do receive trophies/recognition from ATP for? Slam titles, being No.1, WTF titles, Masters 1000 titles etc.
 
Omega_7000 said:
A declining Nadal?
Click to expand...

Nadal wasnt declining until this year. During 2011-2014 he was not and was still really good. He had his usual bout with injuries, missing half of 2012 and 2014, which he endured non stop during Federer's era too so no difference there.

Anyway by the logic Nadal of 2011-2014, Murray, old Federer, arent worthy enough competition, then Federer's competition wouldnt have been tough either as Roddick, Nadal of 2004-2007, Davydenko are not any better, probably worse in fact.
 
mattosgrant said:
As I already mentioned 32 year old Virigina Wade beat peak Chris Evert at Wimbledon. So based on some Federer fanboy logic in this thread, this is proof Wade would have been the heavy favorite, maybe never lost to Chris, at Wimbledon prime for prime. :lol:
Click to expand...
How many RGs has Djokovic got? How many RGs has Federer got? How many finals each?
 
mattosgrant said:
Nadal wasnt declining until this year. During 2011-2014 he was not and was still really good. He had his usual bout with injuries, missing half of 2012 and 2014, which he endured non stop during Federer's era too so no difference there.

Anyway by the logic Nadal of 2011-2014, Murray, old Federer, arent worthy enough competition, then Federer's competition wouldnt have been tough either as Roddick, Nadal of 2004-2007, Davydenko are not any better, probably worse in fact.
Click to expand...
Nadal was declining already in 2014. Don't you remember all the lost matches against other Spaniards on clay?
 
torpantennis said:
How many RGs has Djokovic got? How many RGs has Federer got? How many finals each?
Click to expand...
That's not always the best way to ascertain that player A would always beat player B just because he has a slightly better record at that one tournament. Unless you'd always favour peak Gaudio against peak Djokovic at RG?
 
On average Fed's level was higher in say 2005-2007 on clay but 2011 FO SF was one of the best CC matches he played in his career IMO. Prime for prime, I'd say Fed-Novak on clay would be 50-50, a toss-up.
 
torpantennis said:
Nadal was declining already in 2014. Don't you remember all the lost matches against other Spaniards on clay?
Click to expand...
Nadal won the French last year, reached the AO final and also reached the finals in Miami and Rome. I'm not so sure that you could class those results as the decline of a player, even one as great as Nadal is.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
That's not always the best way to ascertain that player A would always beat player B just because he has a slightly better record at that one tournament. Unless you'd always favour peak Gaudio against peak Djokovic at RG?
Click to expand...
Number of finals or semifinals is the best measure for level in a tournament. I agree, winning just one lone title is based on luck. Federer has 5 finals and 2 SFs, Djokovic less at 3 finals and 4 SFs. So I'll admit, Djokovic could win Fed 1-2 times out of four, peak-to-peak, at RG.
 
torpantennis said:
Number of finals or semifinals is the best measure for level in a tournament. I agree, winning just one lone title is based on luck. Federer has 5 finals and 2 SFs, Djokovic less at 3 finals and 4 SFs. So I'll admit, Djokovic could win Fed 1-2 times out of four, peak-to-peak, at RG.
Click to expand...
Coming from you I'll take that torpan! ;)
 
mattosgrant said:
Nadal wasnt declining until this year. During 2011-2014 he was not and was still really good. He had his usual bout with injuries, missing half of 2012 and 2014, which he endured non stop during Federer's era too so no difference there.

Anyway by the logic Nadal of 2011-2014, Murray, old Federer, arent worthy enough competition, then Federer's competition wouldnt have been tough either as Roddick, Nadal of 2004-2007, Davydenko are not any better, probably worse in fact.
Click to expand...

When did Nadal miss half a year during Fed's prime (2004 - 2009)?

My point is you can take any era and make it look bad including the one we are in right now.
 
Federer won only 1 out of last 22 grand slams... stop talking about age,the competition got too tough for elegant roger style of play
 
The 30 plus yr old Fed from 2011 on is slower and does not recover as quickly as his peak/prime years. That is a fact not speculation.
 
Omega_7000 said:
I disagree. You cannot quantify the strength of an era. There are too many things to consider and numbers don't give you the complete story. Statistics can be misleading.

So who is Djokovic's competition since 2012/2013? --- 31/34 year old Fed? A declining Nadal? Inconsistent Wawrinka? Injured DelPotro & Nishikori? Servebot Raonic?
Also, Wawrinka, Murray and Cilic would not have won majors during Federer's prime/peak.
Click to expand...
I agree. There is no way Wawrinka is winning a slam against NCode Fed.
 
Last edited:
Sabratha said:
Mononucleosis ruined his preparation for 2008; meaning he might have slipped off that same level ever so slightly. I still count 2008 as apart of Federer's prime, just not his absolute peak.
Click to expand...
Sabratha said:
Yeah, and who was No. 2 in Federer's era? Hewitt and Roddick, the former is around Murray's level and the latter not far behind.

Murray also had his chances to be No.1.. He just couldn't do it.
Click to expand...
Murray was blocked from number 1 by Rafa and Novak.
Fed needed the quitting and injured opponents to win. How is the blue clay helping him?

Mono? Is that larger than Novak beating down fed?
I remember Roddick trashing Novak for being injured and ill because he had little to do on tour. He at least matched fed in the insult department.
Mono was clearly better than Roddick, as Roddick was a distracted, laughable, lazy AND limited servebot. The money thrown at this fed 'rival' was over $1 million in 2000.
Roddick the crap player that predictably lost 3 set points against fed in 2009 and 4-2 at 2004 Wimbledon. He lost 6 straight matches in the strong era and was embarrassed that he beat Andreas seppi on grass and robredo in Rome.
He the skipper of usa titanic, lost 3 match points vs. fed and ginepri.
Let's not mention the Roddick beater Hewitt. lol
 
sliceroni said:
The 30 plus yr old Fed from 2011 on is slower and does not recover as quickly as his peak/prime years. That is a fact not speculation.
Click to expand...
The backhand sucks and the slower courts helped even the overrated fed. Otherwise, he'd lose to clowns like karlovic and Roddick on grass.
 
billboard said:
The backhand sucks and the slower courts helped even the overrated fed. Otherwise, he'd lose to clowns like karlovic and Roddick on grass.
Click to expand...

The backhand is not great but still he has better h2h against the clowns.
As for Djokovic, on his favorite surface, he is trailing 1-2 and 4-5 against the 'clowns'.

Numero Uno said:
roger in 2011 was less then 29 years old
Click to expand...

To save the mankind and prevent the brain cells from dying, please click the link below :D

http://www.calculator.net/age-calculator.html?today=08/08/1981&ageat=01/01/2011&x=63&y=24
 
Just came for a look... And I'm out. Predictable stuff in this thread really, can't believe I'm the only one who seemingly tires of it
 
gnana prakash said:
The backhand is not great but still he has better h2h against the clowns.
As for Djokovic, on his favorite surface, he is trailing 1-2 and 4-5 against the 'clowns'.
Click to expand...
roddick choked badly against fed in Wimbledon and masters cup, but he beat fed in Miami. Fed made him feel better by losing against safin and the injured djokerdal.
Roddick lost to all top 10 players in Olympics and Davis cup.
What slam did Ivo and Roddick win in 2007-2012?
 
Berdych, Robredo and seppi had a strong era in 2013-2015.
Poor Roddick was hopeless at Wimbledon, as a one dimensional fed needing luck. Roddick lost 6 straight matches and his mono was contagious.
 
NatF said:
He needs to have not dropped slam matches to players like Murray, Wawrinka and Nishikori...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately he had two of the finals on back to back days(USopen 2012 & RG2015). But no excuses on the other two. It is what it is. He lost to better player on that day, the same way Fed did to Safin at AO2005.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Sport
Andy Murray Weak Era
Replies
8
Views
860
Zardoz7/12
Zardoz7/12
M
There is a certain irony in the whole "weak era" concept
2 3 4
Replies
150
Views
6K
Chanwan
Chanwan
S
Is 2015 and beyond a weak era?
Replies
1
Views
316
K-H
K-H
D
Weak Era or Strong Era?
2 3
Replies
120
Views
12K
Deleted member 77403
D
P
Myth : Federer thrived in a "weak era"
Replies
28
Views
4K
TMF
T
Back
Top