If Federer had his Pete Sampras moment at W 2012...

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I remember a lot of comments, in particular from his haters that Federer should have retired after W 2012, by going out on top, instead of being humiliated over and over again. This was the landscape of post injury Fed in 2013 and early 2014.

If he had listened to haters and doubters he would never

Won his first Davis Cup title with his team for Switzlerland
Broken Pete Sampras' record at W to become the outright owner of the most Wimbledon titles
Beaten Nadal again in a slam final and ultimately turn the head to head, well...on its head
Become the joint record holder for most slams at AO
Won Wimbledon without dropping a set, the first player to do it since Borg
Won a third sunshine double at IW-Miami
Been the first male tennis player in history to hit a phenomenal 20 slams
Won doubt digit HC slams
And as it stands right now...be two matches away from being the oldest number one in history....

Conclusion....Never let the doubters or haters stop you or make you doubt what you are able to, because in the end, your greatness will silence them all.
 
Hitman said:
I remember a lot of comments, in particular from his haters that Federer should have retired after W 2012, by going out on top, instead of being humiliated over and over again. This was the landscape of post injury Fed in 2013 and early 2014.

If he had listened to haters and doubters he would never

Won his first Davis Cup title with his team for Switzlerland
Broken Pete Sampras' record at W to become the outright owner of the most Wimbledon titles
Beaten Nadal again in a slam final and ultimately turn the head to head, well...on its head
Become the joint record holder for most slams at AO
Won Wimbledon with dropping a set, the first player to do it since Borg
Won a third sunshine double at IW-Miami
Been the first male tennis player in history to hit a phenomenal 20 slams
And as it stands right now...be two matches away from being the oldest number one in history....

Conclusion....Never let the doubters or haters stop you or make you doubt what you are able to, because in the end, your greatness will silence them all.
Click to expand...

Haters never thought Federer was retiring. It was just wishful thinking because their worst nightmare is coming true.
 
fedtennisphan said:
Haters never thought Federer was retiring. It was just wishful thinking because their worst nightmare is coming true.
Click to expand...

Funny thing was that were a lot of Fed haters mocking the fact that Fed had only won Halle in 2013. It was a recurring joke here. To think Federer just in the last 12 months won three slams, three masters and a bunch of 500s is bewildering.
 
Hitman said:
Funny thing was that were a lot of Fed haters mocking the fact that Fed had only won Halle in 2013. It was a recurring joke here. To think Federer just in the last 12 months won three slams, three masters and a bunch of 500s is bewildering.
Click to expand...

Who’s laughing now?
 
Some of these achievements were to be expected from Federer.After all he is the greatest of all time.It will be huge shock if Novak or Nadal win or even reach final of any tournament after 35 years old but not for Federer.Djoko stopped him in 2015 but he was at its peak ,otherwise Fed would have had 22 Grand Slams
 
Never understood that argument ever. Sampras for all his greatness was literally a non factor in his last couple of years barring US Open where he made Finals. He was title less for more than 18 months prior to his 5th US Open title in 2002. Federer was winning titles and reaching SF of most slams & even Finals when he was healthy.

Yes 2013 & 2016 were scary though. Always believed in 18 but to get to 20 was so very special. The bonus ofcourse is how he turned the H2H against Nadal.
 
People who said that seriously (i.e. not the haters) didn't know what the hell they were talking about.
Federer reached #1 after winning Wimbledon 2012 (unbeaten in 2011 indoor season, 2012 AO semi, 2012 RG semi, won IW, won Madrid on blue clay before that)

Why the hell would you retire just after that at the age of just ~31 ?

Sampras was ranked/seeded #17 at the time of USO 2002, had not won a single title after Wimbledon 2000 (that's > 2 years). USO 2002 was a fitting end to cap off his career.
 
abmk said:
People who said that seriously (i.e. not the haters) didn't know what the hell they were talking about.
Federer reached #1 after winning Wimbledon 2012 (unbeaten in 2011 indoor season, 2012 AO semi, 2012 RG semi, won IW, won Madrid on blue clay before that)

Why the hell would you retire just after that at the age of just ~31 ?

Sampras was ranked/seeded #17 at the time of USO 2002, had not won a single title after Wimbledon 2000 (that's > 2 years). USO 2002 was a fitting end to cap off his career.
Click to expand...

Those results by Federer are the reason some wanted him to retire. Damaging his legacy was another excuse.
 
abmk said:
People who said that seriously (i.e. not the haters) didn't know what the hell they were talking about.
Federer reached #1 after winning Wimbledon 2012 (unbeaten in 2011 indoor season, 2012 AO semi, 2012 RG semi, won IW, won Madrid on blue clay before that)

Why the hell would you retire just after that at the age of just ~31 ?

Sampras was ranked/seeded #17 at the time of USO 2002, had not won a single title after Wimbledon 2000 (that's > 2 years). USO 2002 was a fitting end to cap off his career.
Click to expand...

And was an unsightly 20-17 in 2002 before the US Open.
 
Hitman said:
I remember a lot of comments, in particular from his haters that Federer should have retired after W 2012, by going out on top, instead of being humiliated over and over again. This was the landscape of post injury Fed in 2013 and early 2014.

If he had listened to haters and doubters he would never

Won his first Davis Cup title with his team for Switzlerland
Broken Pete Sampras' record at W to become the outright owner of the most Wimbledon titles
Beaten Nadal again in a slam final and ultimately turn the head to head, well...on its head
Become the joint record holder for most slams at AO
Won Wimbledon without dropping a set, the first player to do it since Borg
Won a third sunshine double at IW-Miami
Been the first male tennis player in history to hit a phenomenal 20 slams
Won doubt digit HC slams
And as it stands right now...be two matches away from being the oldest number one in history....

Conclusion....Never let the doubters or haters stop you or make you doubt what you are able to, because in the end, your greatness will silence them all.
Click to expand...
Brilliantly said.
 
Hitman said:
I remember a lot of comments, in particular from his haters that Federer should have retired after W 2012, by going out on top, instead of being humiliated over and over again. This was the landscape of post injury Fed in 2013 and early 2014.

If he had listened to haters and doubters he would never

Won his first Davis Cup title with his team for Switzlerland
Broken Pete Sampras' record at W to become the outright owner of the most Wimbledon titles
Beaten Nadal again in a slam final and ultimately turn the head to head, well...on its head
Become the joint record holder for most slams at AO
Won Wimbledon without dropping a set, the first player to do it since Borg
Won a third sunshine double at IW-Miami
Been the first male tennis player in history to hit a phenomenal 20 slams
Won doubt digit HC slams
And as it stands right now...be two matches away from being the oldest number one in history....

Conclusion....Never let the doubters or haters stop you or make you doubt what you are able to, because in the end, your greatness will silence them all.
Click to expand...

I was actually thinking about making a thread not dissimilar to this one over the last few days, but i’m glad a non-Fed fan and well respected member beat me to it.

There was one time that I wavered... immediately after Wimbledon 2015. Fed just wasn’t beating Novak on the biggest occasions, I wanted him to stop trying and failing because I knew as a fan that it must hurt getting so close but not getting over the line. My wife just laughed at me and asked why he would stop when he was making finals and playing at the top of the game.

Since then, even the day he announced the injury break in 2016, I still believed. I remember his press release promising that he would be back in 2017 playing even more attacking tennis. I believed it, but didn’t have a clue that the ride would be this good.

Besides...going out on top is overrated. Nothing wrong with falling short while aiming for more doing the thing you love. And as you rightly point out, if he’d gone out on top then, he might very well not have been on top by now...
 
Tennisgods said:
I was actually thinking about making a thread not dissimilar to this one over the last few days, but i’m glad a non-Fed fan and well respected member beat me to it.

There was one time that I wavered... immediately after Wimbledon 2015. Fed just wasn’t beating Novak on the biggest occasions, I wanted him to stop trying and failing because I knew as a fan that it must hurt getting so close but not getting over the line. My wife just laughed at me and asked why he would stop when he was making finals and playing at the top of the game.

Since then, even the day he announced the injury break in 2016, I still believed. I remember his press release promising that he would be back in 2017 playing even more attacking tennis. I believed it, but didn’t have a clue that the ride would be this good.

Besides...going out on top is overrated. Nothing wrong with falling short while aiming for more doing the thing you love. And as you rightly point out, if he’d gone out on top then, he might very well not have been on top by now...
Click to expand...

I understand. I know he's not my fav, I just naturally gravitate towards Djokovic, but I saw the Federer story from the start, back from the days when he was getting schooled by Agassi in Basel. He's the best I have ever seen.
 
Hitman said:
Who was stopping Nadal at AO 2017 then? Without Federer, Nadal could have been sitting on 17 also...
Click to expand...

Anyone on Fed's half would have had a great shot, Stan, NIshikori, Berdych (maybe even older Zverev who knows). I hear Nadal was very slow and had no power in his groundstrokes, reaching AO final was a major miracle.

Joking aside, I'd give Stan a sem-decent shot, no one else.
 
abmk said:
People who said that seriously (i.e. not the haters) didn't know what the hell they were talking about.
Federer reached #1 after winning Wimbledon 2012 (unbeaten in 2011 indoor season, 2012 AO semi, 2012 RG semi, won IW, won Madrid on blue clay before that)

Why the hell would you retire just after that at the age of just ~31 ?

Sampras was ranked/seeded #17 at the time of USO 2002, had not won a single title after Wimbledon 2000 (that's > 2 years). USO 2002 was a fitting end to cap off his career.
Click to expand...

Sampras was on a downward slope in that period but he was still bringing it in slams. That Bastl debacle aside it usually took strong players to stop him still.

He reached 4 slam finals in 2000-2002 compared to 3 for Fed in 2010-2012.
 
zagor said:
Sampras was on a downward slope in that period but he was still bringing it in slams. That Bastle debacle aside it usually took strong players to stop him still.

He reached 4 slam finals in 2000-2002 compared to 3 for Fed in 2010-2012.
Click to expand...

He lost to an older version of former pigeon Todd Martin at the AO in 2001. Wasn't that great in the first 2 sets vs Safin in AO 02 from what I know. (hadn't/haven't watched the match)

bastl was a debacle and of course talented young fed upset him in Wim 01

was talking about the 01-02 period. Not 2000. 2000, he was strong in slams - agassi just edging him out in AO 00 semi, won Wim, made final of USO beating Krajicek and Hewitt.

fed in 10-12 was stopped 5 times by djokodal in the semis. (even if you don't take RG 12 semi that seriously, that makes it 4 times)
 
Just for the sake of recent seasons it's good that Federer still competes. What a wasteland it would have been without him in the picture. The glimpses of the Tour without a fit Fed like the second half of 2016 and especially that last US Open were atrocious.

On that note, wake up already Novak! :mad:
 
abmk said:
He lost to an older version of former pigeon Todd Martin at the AO in 2001. Wasn't that great in the first 2 sets vs Safin in AO 02 from what I know. (hadn't/haven't watched the match)

bastl was a debacle and of course talented young fed upset him in Wim 01

was talking about the 01-02 period. Not 2000. 2000, he was strong in slams - agassi just edging him out in AO 00 semi, won Wim, made final of USO beating Krajicek and Hewitt.

fed in 10-12 was stopped 5 times by djokodal in the semis. (even if you don't take RG 12 semi that seriously, that makes it 4 times)
Click to expand...

Losing to Todd Martin ain't that much different than Fed losing to Tsonga in 2011 Wimbledon or Berdych in 2012 USO. Safin was just a tough opponent back then for Sampras (even though Pete got him in 2001 USO), too powerful and consistent from the baseline with a wicked ROS.

Don't forget Pete's 2001 USO run to the finals, that was quite something. Beating several USO champions on the way, especially that 2001 USO QF match with Agassi which was probably their best USO encounter on the whole.

My point is, just like it was the case for his whole career, Sampras was still that much more deadly in slams. No titles and #17 ranking didn't do him justice, as 2002 USO showed in a way. I think he still had more to give but wasn't motivated enough with Agassi being so far behind in the slam count. I don't feel that the game passed him by, I wonder if he went Fed's route and switched to a bigger racquet in early 30s.
 
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TheAssassin said:
Just for the sake of 2017-18 it's good that Federer still competes. What a wasteland it would have been without him in the picture. The glimpses of the Tour without a fit Fed like the second half of 2016 and especially that last US Open were atrocious.
Click to expand...

No young guys, it's as simple as that. I know people will disagree and cite the evolution of the game, physical requirements today, the big 4 (which is big 2 right now for all intents and purposes) etc. but still, no young guys.

Hopefully, Novak and Murray can come back and FAA and Shapo mature quicker than expected.
 
zagor said:
Losing to Todd Martin ain't that much different than Fed losing to Tsonga in 2011 Wimbledon or Berdych in 2012 USO. Safin was just a tough opponent then for Sampras, too powerful and consistent fromt he baseline with a wicked ROS.
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1. of course it is different. Tsonga was ranked #19 at the time of Wim 2011 , would end the year at #6. He was in his prime.
Berdych was ranked #7 at the time of USO 12, would end the year at #6. He was in his prime.

Todd Martin was ranked #54 at the time of AO 2001, ended the year at #57. He was well past his prime.

Very different.

In AO 01, Sampras was down 2 sets to 1 in the previous round vs Chela as well.

2. Re : the AO 02 loss :
Sampras has acquired a new coach Tom Gullikson, twin brother of his earlier coach Tim who died, together with a new-found zest for tennis life, or so he would have everybody believe. The reality is that Sampras, who turned 30 last year, is not what he was.

The serve has lost much of its bite and his reflexes at the net have slowed enough for him to be beaten for pace during the first two sets, when he could scarcely hit a volley of note.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2002/jan/22/australianopen2002.australianopen

Him losing to a Safin is not even close to a problem, its that he was below par in the first 2 sets.
He had also gone 5 sets vs Escude in the previous round (yeah, I know Escude could be a tricky early round, but just mentioning that Sampras did go 5 sets with him)

zagor said:
Don't forget Pete's 2001 USO run to the finals, that was quite something. Beating several USO champions on the way, especially that 2001 USO QF which was probably their best career USO encounter.

My point is, just like it was the case for his whole career, Sampras was still that much more deadly in slams. No titles and #17 ranking didn't do him justice, as 2002 USO showed in a way. I think he still had more to give but wasn't motivated enough with Agassi being so far behind in the slam count. I don't feel that the game passed him by, I wonder if he went Fed's route and switched to a bigger racquet in early 30s.
Click to expand...

He was excellent at the USO from 2000-02, no doubt. I didn't forget.
But AO was down in 01 & 02.
Was getting to good enough form in Wim 01, but cut short by fed in R4, and the bastl debacle in 02.

He was better at the slams, no doubt,but you are under-rating his struggles in AO 01/02.
Throw in Wim 02.
He was below par/barely decent enough in 3 of the 6 slams in 01/02. (not even taking into account RG)

He was no doubt in trouble with the advent of poly making it easier to return/pass, with the young guns being pretty good at that that (Hewitt, Safin, Fed etc.) and his own movement/returning/consistency declining.
He'd have to come in more selectively rather than out and out SnV. A bigger racquet would've helped IF he adapted to it well.

As good as Sampras was, Federer is more skilled by a significant amount . This won't show up in their levels on non-clay surfaces when playing well ( they are on similar level on medium-fast surfaces, and fed better to some extent on slower HC) because Sampras had a straight-up all-court blitz game that he executed at high intensity. But it will come into the picture when you have to adjust/re-tool and you don't have your prime level game facets.
 
abmk said:
He was no doubt in trouble with the advent of poly making it easier to return/pass, with the young guns being pretty good at that that (Hewitt, Safin, Fed etc.) and his own movement/returning/consistency declining.
He'd have to come in more selectively rather than out and out SnV. A bigger racquet would've helped IF he adapted to it well.

As good as Sampras was, Federer is more skilled by a significant amount . This won't show up in their levels on non-clay surfaces when playing well ( they are on similar level on medium-fast surfaces, and fed better to some extent on slower HC) because Sampras had a straight-up all-court blitz game that he executed at high intensity. But it will come into the picture when you have to adjust/re-tool and you don't have your prime level game facets.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, all good points. However, Sampras didn't seem to have trouble adapting to K90 in those exos against Fed, quite the opposite he was serving like a beast despite being out of shape and retired for 4 years (I know they were just exos but still).

No doubt he had trouble adapting to slower surfaces, younger athletic guys using poly, his loss of physicality etc. but in a case of effectively retiring shortly after you win a slam I'd still say motivation is the main issue there. 2002 USO is seen as too much of a fluke in my eyes considering it was his 3d straight USO final at that point and that he beat Agassi whose game would still hold up for the next 2-3 years before his back gave up.
 
Hitman said:
Funny thing was that were a lot of Fed haters mocking the fact that Fed had only won Halle in 2013. It was a recurring joke here. To think Federer just in the last 12 months won three slams, three masters and a bunch of 500s is bewildering.
Click to expand...

3 slams. That's Murray's career so far for you. The fourth member for so called big 4.
 
tennis_crazy said:
Never understood that argument ever. Sampras for all his greatness was literally a non factor in his last couple of years barring US Open where he made Finals. He was title less for more than 18 months prior to his 5th US Open title in 2002. Federer was winning titles and reaching SF of most slams & even Finals when he was healthy.

Yes 2013 & 2016 were scary though. Always believed in 18 but to get to 20 was so very special. The bonus ofcourse is how he turned the H2H against Nadal.
Click to expand...

I think Sampras' mindset was a big reason for that. He only really turned it up at the slams and used other events as some kind of tune ups. Maybe it was hard for him to stay motivated after a long, successful career, which makes Federer look an abnormality.
 
tennis_crazy said:
Never understood that argument ever. Sampras for all his greatness was literally a non factor in his last couple of years barring US Open where he made Finals. He was title less for more than 18 months prior to his 5th US Open title in 2002. Federer was winning titles and reaching SF of most slams & even Finals when he was healthy.

Yes 2013 & 2016 were scary though. Always believed in 18 but to get to 20 was so very special. The bonus ofcourse is how he turned the H2H against Nadal.
Click to expand...
Let's add something about 2016: in Australia no one except peak-Djokovic could've stopped him, as we saw. He would've steamrolled Murray in an eventual final.
 
Vish13 said:
3 slams. That's Murray's career so far for you. The fourth member for so called big 4.
Click to expand...

Let's be fair, though, to Murray. I think he could've snatched a couple of slams from Novak if he didn't have back problems right at the peak of his career. H could've won a couple more Wimbledon and maybe also a USO. FO was a possibility as well, I think, because his clay tennis level picked up around 2015. Imagine what he could've been if that back injury hadn't abruptly halted his peak. It took him a couple of years to fully get back to his optimal level and that was a big waste for him. I honestly think it's over for Murray now, his injuries seem quite terminal. I feel sorry for him whenever people try to push him out of the position of big 4, because had his peak rolled on, he would've collected at least a couple more slams and could've reached to no.1 earlier, and people would never question his status as the big 4 of the so called Golden Era.
 
zagor said:
Fair enough, all good points. However, Sampras didn't seem to have trouble adapting to K90 in those exos against Fed, quite the opposite he was serving like a beast despite being out of shape and retired for 4 years (I know they were just exos but still).

No doubt he had trouble adapting to slower surfaces, younger athletic guys using poly, his loss of physicality etc. but in a case of effectively retiring shortly after you win a slam I'd still say motivation is the main issue there. 2002 USO is seen as too much of a fluke in my eyes considering it was his 3d straight USO final at that point and that he beat Agassi whose game would still hold up for the next 2-3 years before his back gave up.
Click to expand...

Sampras also struggled with back problems and just couldn't go full throttle in every tournament he entered. He was really concentrating on slams at the tail end of his career and tried to save his body for the big occasions. I guess bad back gave him even more reasons to focus on the slams more.
 
I'm one of those guys (Fed fan, not a "hater") who thought he should've considered retirement after 2012 Wimbledon (and I definitely thought he should hang it up after 2013). I'm delighted to be wrong, but I don't feel silly now for thinking that at the time. There was no logical reason to expect that any of this success would've occurred in his mid-30s.
 
Hitman said:
If he had listened to haters and doubters he would never

Won his first Davis Cup title with his team for Switzlerland
Broken Pete Sampras' record at W to become the outright owner of the most Wimbledon titles
Beaten Nadal again in a slam final and ultimately turn the head to head, well...on its head
Become the joint record holder for most slams at AO
Won Wimbledon without dropping a set, the first player to do it since Borg
Won a third sunshine double at IW-Miami
Been the first male tennis player in history to hit a phenomenal 20 slams
Won doubt digit HC slams
And as it stands right now...be two matches away from being the oldest number one in history....
Click to expand...

And most importantly, never would've won GQ's Most Stylish Man

3-t7686026-340.jpg

will-roger-federer-ever-be-done__356918_.jpg
 
MeatTornado said:
I'm one of those guys (Fed fan, not a "hater") who thought he should've considered retirement after 2012 Wimbledon (and I definitely thought he should hang it up after 2013). I'm delighted to be wrong, but I don't feel silly now for thinking that at the time. There was no logical reason to expect that any of this success would've occurred in his mid-30s.
Click to expand...

Even if he did not win any majors last two years, it was already successful by 2015 reaching 3 major finals and being the No 2 for most of the period.
 
Even though Federer was an absolute freight train 2004-07, to me these last couple seasons are my favorite. 2009 was amazing and 2012 was great too. But, what he's been able to do since AO 2017 is legendary stuff. I've never seen him as confident or been as confident as a fan. Maybe that's why I lean towards the clay now. He doesn't have to do it of course. It sure would be interesting. This forum will blow up if he plays the French without a doubt. Either way, I'm glad he stuck it out during the tough years and saved some of his best for all of us to witness now. Its been a privilege and continues to be so.
 
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