If Federer wins the ATP Finals, should he be recognized as 2017 World Champion by ITF?
- Thread starter mtincoronel76
- Start date
Without much discussion (I'm not a Rog's fan).
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm delighted that ATP recognizes number one Rafa, but 2017 is ... property of Fedr.Fed is number one in the Fedfans' alternare unverse.
In the real world: Vamos Rafa!
mtincoronel76
Rookie
yep, I read it. And then i ask you something.
Jaitock1991
Hall of Fame
That's coming from the right place.
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
In 2013, Serbia won the Davis Cup (an ITF event) and Djoko earned more points than Rafa in GS tournaments (ITF events).
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Disagree slightly - he has to win the year-end finals to be No 1 for 2017 in my book.
mtincoronel76
Rookie
GS ITF events? not ATP events?
anyway ...
so basically, you states that ITF didn take into account at all the ATP Finals to choose your World Champion, this is so?
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
mtincoronel76
Rookie
did you know that the Masters was created in 1970 ... by ITF?
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
Only the present matters.
every7
Hall of Fame
The ITF's most important point of measure in World Champion considerations are the majors.
- Federer played extremely well in all the majors he played in, but will be docked heavily for electing not to play in F.O.
- Nadal played extremely well in all the majors he played in, and has a slight advantage in that his weakest showing was still a 4th round result
The ITF doesn't recognise the ATP World Tour Finals as a "World Championship" as such so Federer's performance there will not have the same significance to the Tennis Federation as it does to others.
- Federer played extremely well in all the majors he played in, but will be docked heavily for electing not to play in F.O.
- Nadal played extremely well in all the majors he played in, and has a slight advantage in that his weakest showing was still a 4th round result
The ITF doesn't recognise the ATP World Tour Finals as a "World Championship" as such so Federer's performance there will not have the same significance to the Tennis Federation as it does to others.
mtincoronel76
Rookie
in the present all single tournaments are part of the ATP Tour. There is no ITF tour since 1989 (Grand Prix) You should inform yourself appropriately.
mtincoronel76
Rookie
In 1990, the Association of Tennis Professionals (ATP) took over the running of the men's tour and replaced the Masters with the ATP Tour World Championship. World ranking points were now at stake, with an undefeated champion earning the same number of points they would for winning one of the four Grand Slam events. The ITF, who continued to run the Grand Slam tournaments, created a rival year-end event known as the Grand Slam Cup, which was contested by the 16 players with the best records in Grand Slam competitions that year.
In December 1999, the ATP and ITF agreed to discontinue the two separate events and create a new jointly-owned event called the Tennis Masters Cup. As with the Masters Grand Prix and the ATP Tour World Championships, the Tennis Masters Cup was contested by eight players. However, player who is ranked number eight in the ATP Champion's Race world rankings does not have a guaranteed spot. If a player who wins one of the year's Grand Slam events finishes the year ranked outside the top eight but still within the top 20, he is included in the Tennis Masters Cup instead of the eighth-ranked player. If two players outside the top eight win Grand Slam events, the higher placed player in the world rankings takes the final spot in the Tennis Masters Cup.
In 2009, the Masters was renamed the ATP World Tour Finals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATP_Finals#cite_note-1
In December 1999, the ATP and ITF agreed to discontinue the two separate events and create a new jointly-owned event called the Tennis Masters Cup. As with the Masters Grand Prix and the ATP Tour World Championships, the Tennis Masters Cup was contested by eight players. However, player who is ranked number eight in the ATP Champion's Race world rankings does not have a guaranteed spot. If a player who wins one of the year's Grand Slam events finishes the year ranked outside the top eight but still within the top 20, he is included in the Tennis Masters Cup instead of the eighth-ranked player. If two players outside the top eight win Grand Slam events, the higher placed player in the world rankings takes the final spot in the Tennis Masters Cup.
In 2009, the Masters was renamed the ATP World Tour Finals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATP_Finals#cite_note-1
The Itf doesn’t just count slams as we saw was the case in 2013
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Well considering neither was really playing Davis Cup or Olympics this year, it is kind of a moot point. They played slams primarily.
Spencer Gore
Legend
The player who did best in slams is always the moral #1 of the year.
The ITF counted the WTF in 2013 as below quote from their official states
“Rafael Nadal made a remarkable comeback from injury with two Grand Slam wins, but it is Novak Djokovic’s consistent results across all four Slams, Davis Cup and the ATP World Tour Finals that see him named World Champion.”
From
http://www.itftennis.com/news/163361.aspx
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
I am talking about 2017, and the Federer and Nadal situation.
You and I are are discussing two different things. Yes, I am aware that Djokovic got more points in 2013 and took home the heavyweight title. I have no issues with that at all to be frank.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
No, not when he skipped a major and Nadal scored more points than him. Same reason Nadal didn't deserve it at the end of 2013.
peakin11mugs
Semi-Pro
By the way thanks for your posts I do appreciate how they are very nicely laid out and have good Infographics and you pull out a lot of interesting facts from various sources and post good, interesting news etc on nadal and ATP etc.
You do love the ATP or ITF say this, this is official etc
So I do wonder how you will react if ITF deem fed player of the year. I’m predicting you wouldn’t be so well ITF said it so it’s official or posting pictures of fed collecting the award so it’s official “these are facts etc” like you have been with nadal and ye 1 for example just as you don’t when fed officially wins sportsmanship award etc. I’m sure we’ll hear conspiracy theories about how ITF is false authority and it’s all about ATP (but then you also ignore how ATP Offcially say WTF is most prestigious ATP event which is odd as you love official stats, rule etc.
Johnnypeacock
Rookie
The ITF world champion is always who performed best at the Majors. That will be Nadal. Wtf is not a Major.
Johnnypeacock
Rookie
Even though Nadal won two majors I think Djokovic did better overall at the four didn't he?
Johnnypeacock
Rookie
Not only that but he or she every post essentially makes the argument that Nadal is GOAT. The irony is amusing.
Johnnypeacock
Rookie
I'm pretty sure Nadal and Federer will be delighted with their year. Can't imagine either losing sleep over who a load of suits prefer.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
He finished with 1,120 more points than Nadal in the majors, which is even more than Nadal has finished ahead of Federer this year.
Johnnypeacock
Rookie
And was rightfully world champion according to ITF by their criteria.
Federev
G.O.A.T.
SURE!!! Why Not??? I like it!!!
mtincoronel76
Rookie
Exist since 1978. Always is good to learn something new ...
peakin11mugs
Semi-Pro
Fed is number one in the Fedfans' alternare unverse.
In the real world: Vamos Rafa!
I wonder if ITF crown fed player of the year if you will say that nadal is player of year only in vamos brigrade universe. Cos then it will be official
VB is seriously at crisis point. They’re bread and butter h2h, peak level, slam inflation, weak era arguments are finished and they are very confused and panicking how to respond.
You will also be very confused if ITF officially call fed the best player of the year. People will happily agree with your logic of just listen to what’s official. We already do btw. OfficiAlly. WTF is second biggest tournament after slams. Officially players and fans voted for fed and not nadal for you know what awards. Only in VB universe has nadal
Won second biggest award or voted by fans and players anything
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Feder also skipt the Cincy Slam. So not eligible.
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
The "Player Of The Year" award does not exist in the men's pro tennis circuit.
It exists in the women's pro tennis circuit.
- Simona Halep received the "WTA 2017 YE #1" award,
- Garbiñe Muguruza was named the "WTA 2017 Player of the Year", and she received the award.
http://www.wtatennis.com/sites/defa...33_1_2x/public/halep_no_1_press_release_2.jpg
http://www.wtatennis.com/news/singles-player-year-garbiñe-muguruza
mtincoronel76
Rookie
what?????
ITF "World Champion" OF THE YEAR, is basically the same, c´mon ...
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
Nope.
peakin11mugs
Semi-Pro
LMAO fans favourite doesn’t exists neither does the sportsmanship award voted by players. It’s all a conspiracy. ATP says if you don’t vote Federer you’re fined 6 years prize money and have to forfeit the tour.
Ok then ITF champion of the year. Either way an official recognition by the ITF. The highest body in mens and women’s tennis
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
I wonder why you are always posting replies that have nothing to do with my posts.
mtincoronel76
Rookie
yep
world champion is best player for ITF, N°1 of year end is best player for ATP, in fact the" ATP Player of The Year" exist and was won by Nadal for be year end N°1. Since 1990 ATP named "Player of the year" to year-end N°1 ranking.
McEnroeVsAnnacone
New User
who really cares other than obsessed faniodiots - weakest year since hewitt was #1
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Considering that Nadal has an additional final at a Major (1200 pts) I think that for that to happen Federer needs to win the WTF undefeated (1500 pts) with the difference accounting for the difference in the format (BO3 vs. BO 5).
I know that it is not a points calculation, but somewhat objective metric to go by.
Then Federer will have 3 of the 5 biggest events of the year.
Any other scenario and Nadal should get it due to his additional final.
I know that it is not a points calculation, but somewhat objective metric to go by.
Then Federer will have 3 of the 5 biggest events of the year.
Any other scenario and Nadal should get it due to his additional final.
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
Here is the official list of the ATP awards:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/atp-awards-2017-categories-nominees
You can see the name of the ATP award on the trophy:
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
mtincoronel76
Rookie
Here is the official list of the ATP awards:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/atp-awards-2017-categories-nominees
You can see the name of the ATP award on the trophy:
I understand what you say and I am aware of the list of ATP awards. I never said the opposite. I only mention 2 things:
1- The question in the thread is about who should be the ITF world champion, not ATP.
2 - The ATP Finals, as I showed before, is jointly organized by ATP and ITF, so, I suppose, should be taken into account when choosing the tennis player of the year by ITF. Not if to a greater or lesser extent, but surely it is taken into consideration.
Only that.
regards
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
Nope!
And if Federer wins the WTF he has a better year without a shadow of a doubt.
SQA333
Hall of Fame
You're wrong.
The TENNIS MASTERS CUP (From 2000 to 2008) was the one jointly organised by the ATP and ITF. It was an amalgamation of the ATP Championships (precursor to the event we have today) and the competing event by the ITF, the Grand Slam Cup.
Since 2009, ITF has had no say in the WTF.
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