If Federer wins the ATP Finals, should he be recognized as 2017 World Champion by ITF?
- Thread starter mtincoronel76
- Start date
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Gilles Muller begs to differ, as do all other tennis fans.
peakin11mugs
Semi-Pro
You’re all about official lines, ATP it’s official etc. Federer officially has more ATP titles, more ATP no 1 weeks, more ITF titles. Nadal officially lacks the ATPs biggest event. Nadal officially has least ATP a I 1 if the big three. As you already say can’t lie about no 1. Official stats. Deal with it etc
ITF probably will award nadal the title as it would be dangerous to give a guy who missed a slam it. They might give it to fed though. Just funny to see you dismiss ITF. Now we can see how hypocritical (or more fan obsessed) you are when you change your tune if nadal wins
Bottom line VB has gone into melt down mode. Their boy has become poster boy of a mug era - a new term to describe nadals no 1 weeks and these slams. Weak era doesn’t do it justice as hewit, safin, Roddick, aghasi were all no1s and multi slam winners (not Roddick). Hahah Anderson. Lol mug era. Hahaha. No 2 player literally trumps no 1 players top 10 record. No 1 player can only beat outside top 10 even in mug era
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
I keep wondering why you are always posting replies that have nothing to do with my posts.
mtincoronel76
Rookie
YEP!!!!
"In 1990, the Association of Tennis Professionals (ATP) took over the running of the men's tour and replaced the Masters with the ATP Tour World Championship. World ranking points were now at stake, with an undefeated champion earning the same number of points they would for winning one of the four Grand Slam events. The ITF, who continued to run the Grand Slam tournaments, created a rival year-end event known as the Grand Slam Cup, which was contested by the 16 players with the best records in Grand Slam competitions that year.
In December 1999, the ATP and ITF agreed to discontinue the two separate events and create a new jointly-owned event called the Tennis Masters Cup. As with the Masters Grand Prix and the ATP Tour World Championships, the Tennis Masters Cup was contested by eight players. However, player who is ranked number eight in the ATP Champion's Race world rankings does not have a guaranteed spot. If a player who wins one of the year's Grand Slam events finishes the year ranked outside the top eight but still within the top 20, he is included in the Tennis Masters Cup instead of the eighth-ranked player. If two players outside the top eight win Grand Slam events, the higher placed player in the world rankings takes the final spot in the Tennis Masters Cup.
In 2009, the Masters was renamed the ATP World Tour Finals ...In 2017 the event was renamed the ATP Finals ... "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATP_Finals#cite_note-1
peakin11mugs
Semi-Pro
I keep wondering why you are always posting replies that have nothing to do with my posts.
What are you on about. Weak era, slam inflation and h2h are fundamental core of VB. Now even more so as nadal is the poster boy of slam inflation and the mug era. This has everything to do with what you are discussing. Nadal is mug era poster boy. Weak no 1 poster boy. Unable to defeat no 2 player. A record. Wow. Trail blazer
VB invented weak era and slam inflation and peak level of play etc. They might as well embrace mug era, nadals slam inflation and his oeak level being demolished by Djokovic on all three surfaces
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
Again and again it's hilarious that are always posting replies that have nothing to do with my posts.
If you don't want to join the discussion then don't derail the thread.
Party pooper.
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
peakin11mugs
Semi-Pro
Fed is a better ATP and ITF player. Facts. Stealth with etc as you say Calm down and enjoy nadal for what he is. Nadals 2017 was dulled by feds 2017. So what? Deal with it instead of trying to change reality to fit how you think the world should be. Obviously for you 2017 should have been nadal era with nadal doing a Djokovic 2011 or a Fed 2004-2007. Instead nadal did mediocre and became a mug era poster boy and slam inflated poster boy. Boy did alright If VB didn’t invent weak era, slam inflation, h2h you wouldn’t be in this boat trying to defend nadal all the time you could just enjoy the tennis. Instead you’re picking a new h2h or slam inflation by going i after ITF, WTF and fan fav award etc. Lol
No, you are. Had you just stay away and leave them alone, this thread would continue perfectly fine.
mtincoronel76
Rookie
@octobrina10
ABOUT 2013 ITF World Champion:
"... Novak Djokovic narrowly edges out Rafael Nadal to become Men’s World Champion thanks to his consistency at the Grand Slam tournaments and year-end performances. The 26-year-old won his third successive Australian Open title, and was a finalist at Wimbledon and the US Open and a semifinalist at Roland Garros. He won seven titles during the year, including the ATP World Tour Finals, and was unbeaten in seven singles rubbers as Serbia reached the Davis Cup Final.
... ITF President Francesco Ricci Bitti said:
“Serena Williams demonstrated once again why she is one of the greatest athletes of all time, and is a worthy winner of the women’s award. The men’s award was more closely contested, but our criteria rewards players for their performances at the Grand Slam tournaments and in our team competitions.
"Rafael Nadal made a remarkable comeback from injury with two Grand Slam wins, but it is Novak Djokovic’s consistent results across all four Slams, Davis Cup and the ATP World Tour Finals that see him named World Champion.”
Link to article in the official ITF website:
http://www.itftennis.com/news/163361.aspx
So, said by the then ITF President Francesco Ricci Bitti, The ATP Finals are taken into account to choose the ITF World Champion.
ABOUT 2013 ITF World Champion:
"... Novak Djokovic narrowly edges out Rafael Nadal to become Men’s World Champion thanks to his consistency at the Grand Slam tournaments and year-end performances. The 26-year-old won his third successive Australian Open title, and was a finalist at Wimbledon and the US Open and a semifinalist at Roland Garros. He won seven titles during the year, including the ATP World Tour Finals, and was unbeaten in seven singles rubbers as Serbia reached the Davis Cup Final.
... ITF President Francesco Ricci Bitti said:
“Serena Williams demonstrated once again why she is one of the greatest athletes of all time, and is a worthy winner of the women’s award. The men’s award was more closely contested, but our criteria rewards players for their performances at the Grand Slam tournaments and in our team competitions.
"Rafael Nadal made a remarkable comeback from injury with two Grand Slam wins, but it is Novak Djokovic’s consistent results across all four Slams, Davis Cup and the ATP World Tour Finals that see him named World Champion.”
Link to article in the official ITF website:
http://www.itftennis.com/news/163361.aspx
So, said by the then ITF President Francesco Ricci Bitti, The ATP Finals are taken into account to choose the ITF World Champion.
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octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
I know.
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
mtincoronel76
Rookie
Good for you to know, it seemed like you dont, when you mentioned that Murray was World Champion in 2013 because the Davis Cup, without mentioning the ATP Finals at all ...
then we will agree that this year ATP Finals will also be taken into account (that does not mean that Federer or Nadal is going to be the World Champion or not only for that, as long as Fed wins the tournament)
right?
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
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mtincoronel76
Rookie
ha ha ha ha ... really?
ask Bjorn Borg, Jimmy Connors, Boris Becker, Andy Roddick or Arantxa Sanchez if it doesnt matter ...
even ask Guillermo Vilas, who still laments that the prize was created in 1978 and not in 1977.
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Towser83
G.O.A.T.
People remember slam winners not who was world champion, which is decided not in tournament play but is a bunch of people's opinion
mtincoronel76
Rookie
people also remember the world champions (who are slam winners, always), at least the tennis connoisseurs ...
Nadal deserves to finish as the year end no. 1, but if Federer wins the YEC then I think he will have had the better year with 8 titles in total to Nadal's 6, 3 masters series titles to Nadal's 2, 3 out of the 5 biggest titles for the year compared to Nadal's 2, and that convincing 4-0 h2h record for the year.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
it's an abitary title though. To be honest can't remember anyone talking about this. Not trying to argue with you, just honestly can't think when I've heard it talked about. Slams, number one ranking, head to head, wtf, masters even... world champion, not much
mtincoronel76
Rookie
Anyway, you enter a thread to say that you do not find interesting. Is perfect to me. I can not discuss that. Luck!!
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
No I was intrigued about this world champion stuff. My point is, it's decided by people who judge who has had the best season. It's not a title won on the court. Anyway no offence, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
mtincoronel76
Rookie
well, is a votation, right. Like the Balon D'or of football, for example.
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mtincoronel76
Rookie
well, Goffin beat Roger!! bye
Comb Over Champion
Hall of Fame
Can I change my vote? Now I say: "Yes, undoubtedly."
Spencer Gore
Legend
Only those who win the WTF can be considered an all-time great.
Or something...
Or something...
Federer deserves ITF world champion 2017..ITF gives weightage to Grandslam in the order of Wimbledon, US Open, French Open and Australian Open...These are shared by both. While Federer won both slams against Grandslam winners (Nadal and Cilic), while Nadal won both slams against Wawrinka. and Anderson..In 2017, Federer leads in Grandslams 1-0 agangster Nadal...While ITF includes Davis Cup and Federation Cup, they also take into account their officially sanctioned events like ATP Finals (ITF/ATP Combined event) and Hopman Cup (other team event of ITF)...Federer participated and fared well than Nadal in these events in 2017..Federer's overall 7 titles to Nadal's 6. Federer leads Nadal 4-0 in 2017. Federer win-loss is better than Nadal for the entire year 2017..Federer has won 3 Masters to Nadal's 2...Out of both contenders for ITF world champion, Federer scores over Nadal....
Federer narrowly edges over Nadal in 2017 similar to Novak Djokovic over Nadal in 2013 for ITF World champ ion. ..
Remember ITF decision on Ivan Lendil in 1990...It was Lendil overall performance despite missing French open, edged over Stefan Edberg for ITF World champion...It is the toughest decision to make but ITF has to give it to Federer, looking at overall superior performance over the other contender Nadal to declare World champion...Federer has a tour best win-loss record and most titles in the season...Moreover, he won better slams (Wimbledon and AO) over Grandslam winners...His most GSM appearances 71, Most wimbledon titles 8 at age 36, 5+ titles in three GS in this year makes him World Champion...To be ashamed if Federer is not ITF world champion this year
Slam: 2-2
Master1000: 3-2... IW & Miami hit hard.
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mtincoronel76
Rookie
Nadal and Muguruza named 2017 ITF World Champions
Read more at http://www.itftennis.com/news/277534.aspx#JtBwcAkWJzSbrpVo.99
Read more at http://www.itftennis.com/news/277534.aspx#JtBwcAkWJzSbrpVo.99
yatestwile
Rookie
Predictable. The 2013 result still stands out as one of the 2 true shockers in their history. The other being Myskina in 2004 for the women which was arguably even more bizarre, even if 2004 was the nuttiest ever WTA year. I am utterly convinced politics came into play in both of those, although what exactly that was I dont know.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Wow, I didn't realize they'd voted Myskina as world champ - that truly is bizarre!
yatestwile
Rookie
Yes I am so glad Halep did not win it despite ending the year #1. Garbine was far more worthy and rightfully swept all Player of Year awards given out so far. The only year they gave it to a slamless player I semi agreed was Woz in 2010 (had they given it to her in 2011 it would have been a farce but they of course didnt).
yatestwile
Rookie
Yes it is. I would love to know what they based that one. They atleast went public on their reasoning for choosing Djokovic over Nadal, which I still completely disagreed on, and make numerous inconsistencies with many of their past choices, but atleast they gave a rational. For Myskina I cant see even one possible one. Even the 3 other slam winners all had better years in pretty much every respect than she did. I would guess it is a random she is Russian, Russian rise is a big story, we dont like Maria, and she is hotter than Kuznetsova, and the womens year was so wide open we will give it to her since we just feel like it.
She was #3 in the rankings and neither of the top 2 players -- Davenport and Mauresmo -- made a Major final that year.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Nadal wins it, fair and square. He's #1 in the rankings at the end of the year. Federer had the better year (one more Masters 1000, tied with 2 slams apiece), but it doesn't matter. He's old and he faded at the end of the year. Come to think of it, so did Rafa, but he amassed such a lead on clay it wasn't realistic to catch him for #1 anyway.
yatestwile
Rookie
Still not good enough. If it were just on rankings obviously you give it to Davenport or Mauresmo who both had really good years overall even without a major final.
If winning a slam is a must then you either give it to Henin who even in her injury impacted year won Australian Open, Olympics, Indian Wells, and 5 overall tournaments, the best year of anyone really. Or Sharapova who won Wimbledon and the YEC, beating Serena in the finals of both (and Myskina in the WTF semis en route to winning that big event which really sets her above Myskina for the year as their overall slam results are virtually identical all the way).
Even Kuznetsova (another slam winner), Serena, or Dementieva (only women to reach 2 slam finals) could be argued as more worthy. There is no legit case for Myskina and it was a ridiculous decision.
Nadal has 1 more slam final which I think atleast negates and more likely trumps 1 more Masters. Obviously a slam final far outdoes a slam quarter as their 3rd result, and even a mediocre 4th round beats a DNP so Nadal outdid Federer in slams this year. I think Federer was probably the better player this year, but I do not think he had the better year. He would have had to win the WTF or atleast 1 more Masters to have the better year.
Yeah, if you go just by rankings, you tab Davenport or Mauresmo above Myskina, but it would be really tough (unprecedented?) to give the award to a player who didn't even make a Major final. I can see the case for Henin, but she finished the year ranked #8 and was 1,128 points behind Myskina. Again, it would be really tough (unprecedented?) to name the #8 player the player of the year. I can see a case for a lot of players as player of the year that year, but I can't argue against going with the top ranked player with a Major (or even a Major final).
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
I disagree, but of course this is all individual opinion. I give no "bonus points" to slam finalists, the point is the win the tournament. To me, Lendl is actually hurt legacy-wise by being 8-11 in slam finals. But your point is taken.
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
Rafa had the better year according to the ITF criteria.
The ITF says: " The ITF’s selection of its senior World Champions is based on an objective system that considers all results during the year, but gives special weight to the Grand Slam tournaments, and two ITF international team competitions, Davis Cup and Fed Cup by BNP Paribas."
http://www.itftennis.com/news/277534.aspx
In 2013, Rafa won 10 titles (2GS, 5 Masters, 2 ATP-500, 1 ATP-250 ) and Djoko - 7 titles (1GS, 3 Masters, 2 ATP-500, WTF), but the ITF named Djoko the World Champion "thanks to his consistency at the Grand Slam tournaments and year-end performances. The 26-year-old won his third successive Australian Open title, and was a finalist at Wimbledon and the US Open and a semifinalist at Roland Garros [i.e. he earned more points than Rafa]. He won seven titles during the year, including the ATP World Tour Finals, and was unbeaten in seven singles rubbers as Serbia reached the Davis Cup Final."
http://www.itftennis.com/news/163361.aspx
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/rafael-nadal/n409/titles-and-finals
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/novak-djokovic/d643/titles-and-finals
yatestwile
Rookie
ITF gave the 2010 award to Wozniacki who didnt make a slam final, ahead of Serena who won 2 slams and Clijsters who won a slam, YEC, and 5 titles. And Davenport and Maursmo both had a heck of better years than her. I know this was in the future but still.
The one who IMO absolutely has to be above Myskina and should outrule her even being considered is Sharapova. Sharapova ended at #4 to Myskina's #3 so almost the same, but won Wimbledon and the YEC, two big titles, and had the same slam results practically- win, quarters, 3rd round, 3rd round vs win, quarters, 3rd round, 1st round, so a bit better in fact. She also won her 2 big titles beating Serena, Myskina won hers vs fellow first time finalist Dementieva. As I said the YEC semis with Maria beating Myskina, and Maria going on to win there after already having won a slam clearly set her above Myskina as the top Russian. I dont even think Sharapova is neccessarily the one who has to win it (although I think she has as good a case as anyone this year) but she clearly has to win it before Myskina, so that already should rule Myskina out.
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
Congrats to the 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONS
yatestwile
Rookie
Rafa had the better year according to the ITF criteria.
The ITF says: " The ITF’s selection of its senior World Champions is based on an objective system that considers all results during the year, but gives special weight to the Grand Slam tournaments, and two ITF international team competitions, Davis Cup and Fed Cup by BNP Paribas."
http://www.itftennis.com/news/277534.aspx
In 2013, Rafa won 10 titles (2GS, 5 Masters, 2 ATP-500, 1 ATP-250 ) and Djoko - 7 titles (1GS, 3 Masters, 2 ATP-500, WTF), but the ITF named Djoko the World Champion "thanks to his consistency at the Grand Slam tournaments and year-end performances. The 26-year-old won his third successive Australian Open title, and was a finalist at Wimbledon and the US Open and a semifinalist at Roland Garros [i.e. he earned more points than Rafa]. He won seven titles during the year, including the ATP World Tour Finals, and was unbeaten in seven singles rubbers as Serbia reached the Davis Cup Final."
http://www.itftennis.com/news/163361.aspx
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/rafael-nadal/n409/titles-and-finals
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/novak-djokovic/d643/titles-and-finals
2013 was simply absurd though, and I like Djokovic more than Nadal. I honestly think Djokovic gave a bunch of the ITF staff blowjobs to take that one. It is still one of the laughing stocks of the sport today, it is more comedic than something anyone takes seriously.
Federer winning the award over Nadal this year, while I wouldnt have agreed, would have been FAR more justifiable than 2013 was.
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