If H2h's tell the whole story, Nadal had a better 2006 than Federer

[Cesc Fabregas]

Exactly. It is either uninformed opinions or biased Nadal hating to think Baghdatis would have ever beaten Nadal in a hard court slam.

Baghdatis doesn't have a big serve, isn't a great mover and doesn't hit that hard, abit like Gasquet really. Perfect for Nadal.

 

[JennyS]

If they kept losing to the same team, people would indeed question.

Also, team sports have a whole lot of more variables. Not only do the teams change, there are substitutions, etc.

Tennis is mano amano and the winner is the better player, especially if he has proved it time and again way beyond statistical fluctuations.

the 1998 Yankees had a losing record to the Angels. The Angels had a losing record that year and the Yankees won 114 regular season games and the World Series. They had a losing record against the Angels in almost every World Series winning season. Nobody used that against the Yankees.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

Oh get a room guys. :lol:

I can't speak rationale to you guys......I give up.

 

[grafselesfan]

Baghdatis doesn't have a big serve, isn't a great mover and doesn't hit that hard, abit like Gasquet really. Perfect for Nadal.

He is more of a shotmaker than a pure big hitter. He is a great shotmaker, I will give him that, but that isnt what troubles Nadal. He certainly isnt a great flat ball striker like Blake, Youzhny, Gonzo, Tsonga, Berdych, and others who had give Nadal trouble on hard courts at one point in time. He isnt that great a mover as you said and has iffy fitness. Not even mentally that strong, though he was mentally stronger than chokers Nalbandian and Ljubicic when he played them there. A dream matchup for Nadal as their history proves.

 

[grafselesfan]

Oh get a room guys. :lol:

I can't speak rationale to you guys......I give up.

So rational is saying a guy who is 0-5 vs Nadal and who Nadal destroyed badly both in hard courts and grass in the coming months is actually the kind of player Nadal hates to play, LOL! Enjoy your fantasy world.

 

[abmk]

LOL none of those could have taken Nadal.

really ????

Haas- Nadal's pigeon. Has never beaten Rafa or even come close.

yeah, at that time haas was his pigeon :roll:, again you are using what happened after that -> which is a fallacy

Davydenko- slam choker. Did beat Rafa once on hard courts but in a slam never would unless they met in the round of 16 which they wouldnt have.

Pray tell me, how many chances had he blown that time, again another of your great fallacies , using what happened after the event to predict how the event would go

Baghdatis- ROTFL!

He was playing the best tennis of his life, he'd have the edge over rafa that time

Nalbandian certainly could've taken down nadal ....

P.S. BTW with rafa in the draw, everything changed and the draw would be rearrangement so the sequence of events ( matches would be completely different ) and only in your ******* world would rafa be a lock to reach the finals ... All it would take was any one of these players ( who were superior to nadal on HC that time )

 

[film1]

LOL, high five, NOT, BRB

LOL none of those could have taken Nadal.

Haas- Nadal's pigeon. Has never beaten Rafa or even come close.

Davydenko- slam choker. Did beat Rafa once on hard courts but in a slam never would unless they met in the round of 16 which they wouldnt have.

Baghdatis- ROTFL!

If Berdych, Youzhny, or another on fire flat ball hitter who Rafa was vurnerable to at the time was in the late rounds I would agree but this wasnt the case.



I am certainly serious and you havent suggested anyone or anything that would suggest otherwise. The fact you even bring up Haas and slam choker Davydenko as your first choices already says enough.



Yes well enough to win with the easiest draw imaginable, and the only people he ran into playing great were his pigeons or unseeded opponents.



Yes he did. He choked a bunch of chances away in their 2005 FO semi (their 3rd ever meeting) and came out intimidated and scared to start their Miami final in 2005 (their 2nd ever meeting). Their first meeting in 2004 where kid Rafa spanked #1 Federer already had him a bit spooked and it only built from there.

LOL I am ROTFL and hang on, BRB ok LOL Peter Duhan was better on grass in 87 than Becker.
I AM ROTFL AT U hang on BRB I'm back LOL

 

[grafselesfan]

really ????

yes really. You are the one who seems blinded by either your Federer fanboyism or Nadal hate.

yeah, at that time haas was his pigeon :roll:, again you are using what happened after that -> which is a fallacy

So Nadal beat Haas twice easily on hard courts in best 2 out of 3 set matches later in 2006, yet Haas in a slam on a slow hard court in early 2006 would have been doing any better? :lol:

Pray tell me, how many chances had he blown , again another of your great fallacies , using what happened after the event to predict how the event would go

2005 French Open semis- choked 4-2 5th set lead vs Mariana Puerta.

2007 French Open semis- choked away all 3 sets vs Federer which he either served or was up a break late in each. Even the *******s on the forum admited so at the time. Gave away the serve game each time with gift easy errors.

2006 Australian Open quarters- you forget their match at this very Australian Open where Davydenko blew some leads and choked a bit at the clutch moments.

He was playing the best tennis of his life, he'd have the edge over rafa that time

Sorry but Bagdhatis would NEVER have the edge over Rafa in a slam. He is a an easy matchup and opponent for Rafa on all surfaces. At Wimbledon later that very year he played the 2nd best tournament of his life and he still was destroyed by Rafa when Rafa wasnt yet some grass court Master. As I said his run to the Australian Open final that year, as well as he played, was nothing like Gonzalez or Tsonga the next 2 years. He beat a few tough opponents, the last 2 especialy his semifinal win were all but gifted by collasal choking by his opponents. Nalbandian should have beaten him in straight sets had he held his nerve.

Nalbandian certainly could've taken down nadal ....

Please, he couldnt even keep his nerves together enough to beat Baghdatis from 2 sets to 0 up and from a break up in the 5th. Just like he couldnt beat Roddick in the U.S Open semis after dominating the whole match, and couldnt even get a set off Gaudio. Since his shock Wimbledon final he has gone 0-4 in slam semis.

 

[JennyS]

If Nadal had been in the 2006 Australian Open, the entire draw would have been different as seeds 2-32 would now be seeds 3-33!

To say that Nadal would have won the 06 Australian Open and 09 Wimbledon without him having set foot on court in those Slams in ludicrous. If that's the case then...

-Agassi wouldn't have won the 99 US Open had Sampras not pulled out.

-Agassi wouldn't have won the 95 Australian Open had Sampras' coach not gotten seriously ill.

-Henman would have gotten to the 01 Wimbledon final if it hadn't rained.

-Roddick would have beaten Federer in 04 Wimbledon if it hadn't rained

-Federer would have won the 08 Australian Open if he hadn't gotten mono

-Federer would have beaten Nadal in the 06 French Open had he won Rome.

None of that happened.

 

[grafselesfan]

If that's the case then...

-Agassi wouldn't have won the 99 US Open had Sampras not pulled out.

I believe that strongly anyway and have said so many times in fact. In fact nearly everyone believes this.

-Agassi wouldn't have won the 95 Australian Open had Sampras' coach not gotten seriously ill.

I am not as sure about this as Agassi has a great record down under and was playing incredible on hard courts this year. However yes this is certainly also possible. Sampras did amazingly well to make the final and be as competitive in it as he was given the circumstances he was in.

-Henman would have gotten to the 01 Wimbledon final if it hadn't rained.

I also agree with this, and again nearly everyone else feels that way. Ivanisevic even said he would have lost that semis without the rain delay anyway. I wonder who would have won the Rafter-Henman final that year?

-Roddick would have beaten Federer in 04 Wimbledon if it hadn't rained

I am not as sure about this as the Henman-Ivanisevic semifinal at Wimbledon 2001, but I do believe this is also possible.

-Federer would have won the 08 Australian Open if he hadn't gotten mono

No.

-Federer would have beaten Nadal in the 06 French Open had he won Rome.

I actually believe he would have also. He didnt win Rome so it doesnt matter. Another gut wrenching defeat for Federer in a big match to Nadal which shifted the momentum of their rivalry even more in Rafa's favor.

 

[abmk]

yes really. You are the one who seems blinded by either your Federer fanboyism or Nadal hate.

yeah, right , look who's talking !

So Nadal beat Haas twice easily on hard courts in best 2 out of 3 set matches later in 2006, yet Haas in a slam on a slow hard court in early 2006 would have been doing any better? :lol:

He was playing MUCH better at the AO than later that year ..he's had more than fair share of injuries too

2005 French Open semis- choked 4-2 5th set lead vs Mariana Puerta.

puerta was playing well at that time

2007 French Open semis- choked away all 3 sets vs Federer which he either served or was up a break late in each. Even the *******s on the forum admited so at the time. Gave away the serve game each time with gift easy errors.

uh, that was after 2006 AO .

2006 Australian Open quarters- you forget their match at this very Australian Open where Davydenko blew some leads and choked a bit at the clutch moments.

possibly because he was facing fed, a multiple time champion on HC >> would he be afraid of nadal at that time on HC ??? really ???

Sorry but Bagdhatis would NEVER have the edge over Rafa in a slam. He is a an easy matchup and opponent for Rafa on all surfaces. At Wimbledon later that very year he played the 2nd best tournament of his life and he still was destroyed by Rafa when Rafa wasnt yet some grass court Master. As I said his run to the Australian Open final that year, as well as he played, was nothing like Gonzalez or Tsonga the next 2 years. He beat a few tough opponents, the last 2 especialy his semifinal win were all but gifted by collasal choking by his opponents. Nalbandian should have beaten him in straight sets had he held his nerve.

He was playing well and better than anything rafa had shown in HC slams

Please, he couldnt even keep his nerves together enough to beat Baghdatis from 2 sets to 0 up and from a break up in the 5th. Just like he couldnt beat Roddick in the U.S Open semis after dominating the whole match, and couldnt even get a set off Gaudio. Since his shock Wimbledon final he has gone 0-4 in slam semis.

So that guarentees nadal a win though he matches up terribly with nalby ? right !

all it requires was one match, any of these players

 

[World Beater]

baghdatis is a talented player who on his day could give nadal a run for his money.

but more often than not, nadal would win.

of course things might have changed if baghman would have defeated federer at the AO. he might have the confidence to defeat the top guns.

 

[JennyS]

Had Nadal played the 06 AO, seeds 2-32 would have all moved down one. This would have been his projected draw from rounds 3-SF:

3R: Niemenen
4R: Hrbaty or Robredo
QF: Coria, Mirnyi, Ancic or Gonzalez
SF: Ferrero, Berdych, Grosjean or Hewitt

Not sure where Baghdatis would have fit in.

 

[bruce38]

Head2heads don't measure who the better player is, however saying Federer is a better tennis player than Nadal because Federer has more slam isn't correct either. Nadal is 5 years younger, so obviously Nadal will have less slams. The fact that Nadal is about to win the Career Grand Slam at such a young age is a sign he is a better player than Federer right now. The fact that Nadal is only just starting to remodel his game for hardcourts yet already has the Australian Open (and that he improves each year at the US Open) is another warning of what is ahead. Everything points to Nadal being better than Federer, not just the head2head.

You contradicted yourself. See if you can figure out where - I highlighted to help you out.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

So rational is saying a guy who is 0-5 vs Nadal and who Nadal destroyed badly both in hard courts and grass in the coming months is actually the kind of player Nadal hates to play, LOL! Enjoy your fantasy world.

Baghdatis never beat Roddick other than the AO that year. Gonzo never beat Nadal after the 07 AO and Tsonga never since the 08 AO. It only takes one match for an in the zone guy to beat a guy, even if he's better than him.

 

[TheFifthSet]

2007- Had a leg injury and lost to on fire Gonzo playing the match of his life

Really? You don't think he played better in the Haas match? I would say a 15:1 ratio of winners/UE's is pretty unbelievable. Guess who stopped an on-fire Gonzalez? FEDERER.

Talk about hard luck - Federer was playing absurd Tennis in '05 before meeting Safin. Just an absolute highlight reel, particularly against Suzuki and Agassi. Guess what? He lost to a Safin who played his best tennis ever, which is clearly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gonzalez's best. And Federer didn't get freaking straight-setted, he had a MP against Safin.

2008? Meets Djokovic, who probably played the tournament of his life, most likely would've lost even if Federer been 100%.

So as I see it:

Safin's and Djokovic's best >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gonzalez and Tsonga's best.