If inter-string friction reduces spin, what happens if you oil the strings?

S

samalo0

New User
I was reading the string friction test, and it really was an interesting read. Before I had thought that spin was mainly produced by the friction between the ball and the strings, making textured and odd shaped strings produce more spin. But having thought about this a lot, it does make sense that the predominant force in producing the spin is the stretch and snap back of the mains. No wonder spaghetti stringing works, which creates spin by not crossing the mains with any strings but having two separate planes of strings.

Anyway, along this topic, I was thinking about what would happen if you were to use an oil (like silicon oil, gun oil, etc) to lubricate the intersections of the strings. It might be hard to get it in there and it might wipe off fairly quickly as the ball moved the strings and rubbed on them, but it would be interesting to experiment with this and would be fairly easy to confirm any benefits.

I have heard of people using oil on gut to keep it lasting - which may be because it reduces the friction and allows it to slide easier, creating more spin in the process. Also the gut absorbs the oil, allowing it to remain longer.
Thoughts?
 
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I've been testing out Head Intellitour which comes out of the package very oily. I don't find the spin potential to be higher than many of the other multis I've been trying.
 
kiteboard said:
I tried it against a guy who I beat the first set 6-4, then I lost the oiled set: at love. No control.
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There is no way that oiling your stringbed will cause such a huge loss in control that you get bageled. It's not significant enough of a factor to be possible.
 
I used spray oil, the kind on electrical connections: silicone spray, and it was due to the spray totally. The ball did not stay on the bed at all, but just slipped off right away. Try it. If you haven't tried it, there's no way you can comment as if you have tried it.
 
Yeah, if you oiled the whole stringbed, I can imagine that being a problem. I think what you need is very precise oil application at the string intersections. A little extra would probably be OK, but you don't want it over the whole surface. Just enough to let the strings break static friction with each other more easily when contact is made.

I think there was a Japanese study on this that concluded the oil does aid spin. If you search for it, you can probably find it.
 
Kevo said:
Yeah, if you oiled the whole stringbed, I can imagine that being a problem. I think what you need is very precise oil application at the string intersections. A little extra would probably be OK, but you don't want it over the whole surface. Just enough to let the strings break static friction with each other more easily when contact is made.

I think there was a Japanese study on this that concluded the oil does aid spin. If you search for it, you can probably find it.
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Here it is - I searched for 'japanese tennis spin oil' in google; the results are kind of interesting if you can decipher the article.

They don't explain (although I quickly glanced) how they lubricate the strings, but since they are natural gut you could probably oil them all rather than trying to oil individual locations, etc.

I would be interested to see how one would lubricate the string bed to avoid having oil everywhere and thus causing a reduction in ball to string friction, which you want.

After reading all of those studies, I want to try and find a good gut mains/poly crosses setup to try, but I don't want to buy $40 gut. So I'm thinking about trying something similar in place of the gut to cut down on the cost. I really want to spend about $10 a set of string give or take a little.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Wj4Ne5pSvPfSo4ZBw&sig2=fGy6G1SXcr6i7pQ-NoCvDg
 
samalo0 said:
After reading all of those studies, I want to try and find a good gut mains/poly crosses setup to try, but I don't want to buy $40 gut. So I'm thinking about trying something similar in place of the gut to cut down on the cost. I really want to spend about $10 a set of string give or take a little.
Click to expand...

Best bet is to use the cheaper gut like unifibre, volley, or global from the bay in your mains... or TW's Titan crossed with a poly like sppp.

Per racquet you'll be at $13.50 using Titan mains/SPPP cross; or under $10 using volley gut and a $7 poly like cyberflash.
 
Kevo said:
Yeah, if you oiled the whole stringbed, I can imagine that being a problem. I think what you need is very precise oil application at the string intersections. A little extra would probably be OK, but you don't want it over the whole surface. Just enough to let the strings break static friction with each other more easily when contact is made.

I think there was a Japanese study on this that concluded the oil does aid spin. If you search for it, you can probably find it.
Click to expand...
It's called MiraFit, if that helps with the search. I don't know if it is silicone, something new and proprietary, or what. The pdf I read about it sounded promising, but it still seems problematic to me, and here's why:

There's a distinction to be made between static friction (the resistance to getting the mains to start moving across the crosses, which I believe is what TW Prof has been measuring with the TW Friction Tool) and dynamic friction (the resistance to the mains' continuing to move and snap back once they've gotten started). A lubricant added to a racquet that's already strung ought to help with dynamic friction – though Kiteboard's post suggests it introduces other problems at the same time.

But how could it possibly help with static friction, unless you used a string saver applicator to lift a string at each intersection so you could add one drop of lubricant between the strings? And if you did go to that much trouble, how many string movements would be effectively lubricated before the tiny amount between the strings is worn away?
 
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I think it could negatively affect the strings I wouldl'nt recommend it. Also if theres too much it could oil up the fuzz on the ball.
 
I think you would need a micro applicator tip and would need to apply a single small drop at the intersections of the strings. Then after a few hits the oil would be spread around on the string as the strings moved. I imagine there would be some necessary trial and error to get it just right. Some oils would surely work better than others.

Personally I feel this is kind of pointless. I mean I can hit all the spin I want/need now. What I can't do is play a set with no errors, and run down 20 shots in a point. I can train and practice and improve those things through my own effort and that depends solely on me. No gimmicks or special equipment needed.
 
Kevo said:
I think you would need a micro applicator tip and would need to apply a single small drop at the intersections of the strings. Then after a few hits the oil would be spread around on the string as the strings moved. I imagine there would be some necessary trial and error to get it just right. Some oils would surely work better than others.

Personally I feel this is kind of pointless. I mean I can hit all the spin I want/need now. What I can't do is play a set with no errors, and run down 20 shots in a point. I can train and practice and improve those things through my own effort and that depends solely on me. No gimmicks or special equipment needed.
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I agree. I don't quite understand the current obsession with excessive spin.
I remember watching our local club hero get taken apart at an open event
at my friend's club. Our hero (a well known author on doubles tennis) was, I guess, ahead of his time and hit with heavy, heavy topspin with windshield washer strokes. His nemesis in this event was a smooth,flat hitting, old style, "economy of motion" player. Old style just wore our hero out.
We were embarassed for him.
 
kiteboard said:
I used spray oil, the kind on electrical connections: silicone spray, and it was due to the spray totally. The ball did not stay on the bed at all, but just slipped off right away. Try it. If you haven't tried it, there's no way you can comment as if you have tried it.
Click to expand...

I read om someone's blog that spray actually helps. I just don't see myself spraying strings every time I am playing.
 
All you need to do is to put oil(what kind?) after you string the mains and that will even be easier to pull the crosses for some strings.
 
Buckethead said:
All you need to do is to put oil(what kind?) after you string the mains and that will even be easier to pull the crosses for some strings.
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We are not talking about while a stringing. We are talking about while playing.
Silicone will decrease friction between mains and crosses and at the same time will decrease traction between a ball and string bad, which ultimately decrease spin, unless you're playing with "textured strings.
Poly Star already comes "pre-oiled". But according to Poly Star it is a special coating.
 
DavidNERODease said:
Is it legal lubricate string?
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Yes, I believe it is illegal per the tennis rules. How about all the oil junk on the ball after a while? Who the heck wants to have oil all over your tennis clothing as well? Just find a string that works, take some tennis lessons to be a better player.
 
You need to keep ball/string interface rough, and make string/string interface smooth. Put some teflon string savers might help, or find a way to only lubricate the string/string interface.
 
I spray some bug repellent on my stringjobs. Really helps get rid of mosquitos on court, and if the odor is really repulsive, annoying people from the neighboring courts tend to leave sooner.
 
Try string-savers...

samalo0 said:
I was reading the string friction test, and it really was an interesting read. Before I had thought that spin was mainly produced by the friction between the ball and the strings, making textured and odd shaped strings produce more spin. But having thought about this a lot, it does make sense that the predominant force in producing the spin is the stretch and snap back of the mains. No wonder spaghetti stringing works, which creates spin by not crossing the mains with any strings but having two separate planes of strings.

Anyway, along this topic, I was thinking about what would happen if you were to use an oil (like silicon oil, gun oil, etc) to lubricate the intersections of the strings. It might be hard to get it in there and it might wipe off fairly quickly as the ball moved the strings and rubbed on them, but it would be interesting to experiment with this and would be fairly easy to confirm any benefits.

I have heard of people using oil on gut to keep it lasting - which may be because it reduces the friction and allows it to slide easier, creating more spin in the process. Also the gut absorbs the oil, allowing it to remain longer.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I used Babolat string-savers to make my strings last longer. I used 8X6 pattern (topToBottomXsideways). One additional benefit i noticed is that spin generation also improved.

String snap-back was significant. I pulled/released the string with string-savers sideways and it snap back when released. I did the same thing to the other string with no string-savers and there is no snap-back: they stayed where i moved them...
 
When I play with someone who hits a killer top spin, I usually spray some oil on my string bed. It makes the ball and my opponent's string bed slippery and my opponent can no long generate that much of top spin.
 
Instead of oiling the strings. What if you string every other cross? Less strings = Less friction = More Spin

Probably illegal though.
 
samalo0 said:
Here it is - I searched for 'japanese tennis spin oil' in google; the results are kind of interesting if you can decipher the article.

They don't explain (although I quickly glanced) how they lubricate the strings, but since they are natural gut you could probably oil them all rather than trying to oil individual locations, etc.

I would be interested to see how one would lubricate the string bed to avoid having oil everywhere and thus causing a reduction in ball to string friction, which you want.

After reading all of those studies, I want to try and find a good gut mains/poly crosses setup to try, but I don't want to buy $40 gut. So I'm thinking about trying something similar in place of the gut to cut down on the cost. I really want to spend about $10 a set of string give or take a little.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Wj4Ne5pSvPfSo4ZBw&sig2=fGy6G1SXcr6i7pQ-NoCvDg
Click to expand...


I use timo with natty gut. Cost is about $15 a frame. I did not like the gut in the mains near as much as gut in the crosses.
 
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