J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
The Jolly Volley instruction method has so far 100% success rate from 2.0-5.0.
J
Ironic since my volleys are the weakest part of my game.
J
The Jolly Volley instruction method has so far 100% success rate from 2.0-5.0.
J
The Jolly Volley instruction method has so far 100% success rate from 2.0-5.0.
J
Better than @Wise one's 95% failure rate for BH poaching.
Better than @Wise one's 95% failure rate for BH poaching.
I hit a backhand poach this weekend in the opposite doubles alley.
Totally forgot about Wise Juan.
J
Then you must be < 3.0 or > Open [the range of his study].
Either that or you conveniently forgot about the 19 attempts when your team lost the point.
I understand the guys taking volleys in weird spots because of mobility, but this guy's tend to end up being some of the better volleyers because they're forced to learn how to hit a ton of weird out of position shots of they aren't gonna play 2 back.Not sure if you all see this a lot, but folks consistently taking volleys between the baseline and service line. I have seen this in my area quite a bit and always though it was weird. But I did notice it was mostly older players (where I will be soon) who may have mobility issues. Don't want to run back for lobs and don't want to rush the net. Kinda a non-committal defensive position.
Yeah the guys I know who do this definitely save a lot of out balls because it's hard to tell. But they're either 65+ and have those S&V era hands or have old leg injuries and have had to learn to play that part of the court. But on the flip side they win plenty of points off crazy atypical pick ups.What I have seen is dangerous about the mid-court volleying is it appears some of those look like they would probably be out if not intercepted in that mid area. I also was a fill in practice player with some women players working with their teacher and he actually espoused this tactic for play.
If you're consistent enough to practice your volleys against a wall effectively, then you probably don't need that much work on your volleys. It's kind of a catch 22.
Because most are impressed with big serves and forehands, Watch them the next time you see some out practicing. They are either hitting serves or they are hitting massive ground strokes with their partner. Wife and I went out to practice yesterday for a tourney this week....we never left the service box except to work on returning short balls. I have a very low tolerance for hitting ground strokes in doubles now. On a rare occasion some guy is kicking the ball up so high you just have to lob the return or whatever, but most of the time...I'm hitting the return and coming straight in. Anything more than two ground strokes is a waste of time.Why do the majority of USTA players have such weak volleys compared to the rest of their game?
I probably know 5 people who's volley is the best part of their game, from 3.0-5.5+.
J
yea, but hell...most can't even volley...and the wall is a perfect place to practice volleys. You don't have to put them away in most cases because most can't even volley more than two balls back. If you hit one to the right shoulder and one to the left shoulder, you will get the point with many people. I don't understand why you think you can't volley against the wall. I've done it when wife can't practice...it works very well. actually better because the wall is undefeated.lol Everything is coming back...if you can keep say 6 going off the wall...you will win most of the time with people.lolYeah, and also, even if you do find a way to volley against the wall, or find a practice partner willing to do volleys, you usually still only end up practicing 'control' volleys rather than 'put away' volleys. To practice put aways you need a basket of balls and someone willing to just feed.
Agreed.
It's not natural to spend 45min working on volleys. Yet they are what separates ok doubles players from really good doubles players. Realistically, I suppose in USTA, you can have one awesome net player and one really good baseliner and do very well.
The only way I improved my volleys was to actually work on them. And to do it correctly with footwork. I'd be dripping with sweat more from practicing volleys than groundstrokes.
Everything is coming back...if you can keep say 6 going off the wall...you will win most of the time with people.lol
I've found that when I get into a defensive reflex volley rally, when, say, the opposing net man poaches and volleys it at me, if I can get 3 back, I can reset the point or perhaps even take the offensive. The problem is that I often can only get one back.
That's because your footwork and preparation is good enough that you're not relying on reflexes to hit the ball at the netWho TF hits 3 consecutive reflex volleys?
I probably do that once a month.
J
That's because your footwork and preparation is good enough that you're not relying on reflexes to hit the ball at the net
Who TF hits 3 consecutive reflex volleys?
I probably do that once a month.
J
We all lose our share of reflex volleys. The main point is just try to win the normal volleys. Also if someone is serving to your partner, you really should be facing the person at the net. The biggest mistake most people make is they are facing the server and they are no threat to you at that moment as they are serving to your partner...so some so called reflex volleys are really normal volleys that feel like reflex volleys because you are turned the wrong way.I've found that when I get into a defensive reflex volley rally, when, say, the opposing net man poaches and volleys it at me, if I can get 3 back, I can reset the point or perhaps even take the offensive. The problem is that I often can only get one back.
What I mean is, when you have a volley that should be a put away, but instead is hit as a 'control' volley back to the other team, it gives them an opportunity to win the point that should already be yours.yea, but hell...most can't even volley...and the wall is a perfect place to practice volleys. You don't have to put them away in most cases because most can't even volley more than two balls back. If you hit one to the right shoulder and one to the left shoulder, you will get the point with many people. I don't understand why you think you can't volley against the wall. I've done it when wife can't practice...it works very well. actually better because the wall is undefeated.lol Everything is coming back...if you can keep say 6 going off the wall...you will win most of the time with people.lol
What do you mean by 'fine'. Sure, if you can handle low volleys you are unlikely to miss high ones when just attempting to control them. But we have all seen people overhit high volleys when trying to put them away, or not get enough behind them and giving the other team another bite at the point, or not placing it where it needs to be to put it away.If you can make a control volley coming at pace below knee height, you'll be fine with a shoulder high put away.
Idk I was always told that best praxis was to put the first one deep at their feet then put the second away if I wasn't comfortable that I could 100% put the first away. Putting the ball over the net is always more important than putting it away at least up through 4.0.What I mean is, when you have a volley that should be a put away, but instead is hit as a 'control' volley back to the other team, it gives them an opportunity to win the point that should already be yours.
Here's a common example: Server hits a good serve, returner hits a weak return to the server's partner at net, server's partner makes the volley but right back to the returner. Now the other team are still in the point and it's frustrating if you end up losing it because it should have been a quick easy point.
You can practice those control volleys against the wall and obviously that's better than nothing, but most of us don't ever practice aggressive put away volleys.
That's absolutely true, given the scenario that you are working your way up to the net, or that the first volley is challenging. Put it deep at their feet, close the net, and put the next one away.Idk I was always told that best praxis was to put the first one deep at their feet then put the second away if I wasn't comfortable that I could 100% put the first away. Putting the ball over the net is always more important than putting it away at least up through 4.0.
My experience with rec players is that they tend to go for too much too soon, lose the percentage game, then only remember the sexy out aways that worked out and refused to acknowledge the play they had on the ≥⅔ of the ballots that went out wide or in the net.
Ok, that makes more sense. I've played with more than one rec player who gets frustrated that I put potential winners deep, even if I win the next shot. But they don't split step and often don't turn sideways for volleys and don't understand the subtly of having good footworkThat's absolutely true, given the scenario that you are working your way up to the net, or that the first volley is challenging. Put it deep at their feet, close the net, and put the next one away.
What I'm talking about is the next one! Or a scenario where the server's partner gets an easy first volley off a good serve. Who actually practices those put-away volleys other than when actually playing out points?
Putting the ball over the net is always more important than putting it away at least up through 4.0.
I can't speak for above 4.0 even if I had a suspicion this was true*7.0
J
What I mean is, when you have a volley that should be a put away, but instead is hit as a 'control' volley back to the other team, it gives them an opportunity to win the point that should already be yours.
Here's a common example: Server hits a good serve, returner hits a weak return to the server's partner at net, server's partner makes the volley but right back to the returner. Now the other team are still in the point and it's frustrating if you end up losing it because it should have been a quick easy point.
You can practice those control volleys against the wall and obviously that's better than nothing, but most of us don't ever practice aggressive put away volleys.
Sure, agree with you there!That's true what you are saying, but wouldn't you agree that you must learn to volley before you can even learn to put a way a volley? Again, I'm not suggesting not work on that but you can't put one away if you can't first learn how to volley instead.
The last type is definitely what I'm talking about haha. One guy in particular is in his 50s but played shortstop and has that reaction time. Puts away some really good balls, but had yet to realize how exploitable he is once you figure him out. Also tends to leave his partner open with unplanned poaches on balls he can get to and not put awaySure, agree with you there!
Unrelated, but funny things I see playing social tennis with people who can't volley:
The guy who has zero volley technique but who parks himself at the net and jabs away at balls. Mostly leading to errors, but once in a while he makes a winner drop volley off a shank, and then gets this look of "yeah, I totally meant to do that!"
The guy who is so scared of the net that he stays back when his partner is serving. This happened to me the other day... now I have a pretty good serve (above average for my level 4.5), and here I am serving and the guy is at the baseline. Just weird.
Then on the other hand I see people who have no groundstrokes and no technique but good hands and good reflexes, who basically crash the net at all times and end up being more of a challenge than would initially appear.
I think because it takes much longer to progress when building an all-court game with all-court skills so most people just focus on baseline play.Why do the majority of USTA players have such weak volleys compared to the rest of their game?
I probably know 5 people who's volley is the best part of their game, from 3.0-5.5+.
J
you can practice put away volleys on a wall if the area is fenced in, it's tedious though, you can do four or five reaction volleys and then finish with a put away.Yeah, and also, even if you do find a way to volley against the wall, or find a practice partner willing to do volleys, you usually still only end up practicing 'control' volleys rather than 'put away' volleys. To practice put aways you need a basket of balls and someone willing to just feed.
Being a "good volleyer" is much more than the skill of the volley technique itself.
It's 75% not being afraid and 25% everything else.
J
Fear comes from being in a situation where we don't know what to do.
Therefore, I would phrase it differently .....
Knowing how to position is what makes us unafraid, Knowing what to do with the ball makes us confident. Knowing how to volley (technique) makes us dangerous.
That's the great thing about the internet, you get to phrase things how you want, I get to phrase things how I want and everyone else gets to pick who they listen to.
J
Dang, didn't mean to rub you the wrong way
It's 75% not being afraid and 25% everything else.
J
Knowing how to position is what makes us unafraid,
I know people who, even if they are in the optimal position, are still afraid of getting passed. They worry about that 15-20% that they can't cover rather than the 80-85% that they can.
I give up the 15-20%; if my opponent can hit it, I say "great shot"; I also think "let's see you do that all match long". If I'm going to win, I need to do well with the 80-85%.
This feels like an Anchorman quote but also very good advice.If you find something that works 55% of the time, do it every time.
J
This feels like an Anchorman quote but also very good advice.
A lot of times people get frustrated when they lose points but dont realize they are playing an advantageous pattern that they are winning 6 out of 10 of those points but then lose 2 points of that pattern in a row and change because of frustration.
This is the bane of my existence in park tennisNo better demonstration of this than when a net player tries to pinch/poach and gets burned DTL once after winning the previous 7 points: what does the partner say? Not "no worries! Keep being aggressive! We're killing them with this strategy!". More like "stay on your side, will ya?"
This is the bane of my existence in park tennis
I like to tell newbies to use the high five technique, hand out in front and compact forward movement.one tip: the number 1 weakness in volley technique is too big of a swing. Don't take the racket back at all and stop your follow through so you get the feeling of staying behind the ball. I see very good baseline players that take the racket head behind their shoulders and almost always late or making off center contact. The other error is players take a long follow thru trying to hit the ball hard or trying to put underspin on the shot. Your basic meat and potatoes volley should be very very compact - no take back and shorten the follow threw so strings are staying behind contact.