If Nadal passes Feds slam count, it's tough for me to put him ahead

RF-18

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Since the slam race is on, I just wanted to give an opinion on Fed Vs Rafa.

Nadal is a fantastic player and will always be a legend of the sport but I just want to give my opinion that if he finishes with the most slams I'll have a tough time putting him ahead of Federer. Federer is just a better player and the gap between them on grass, HC and indoors will always remain the same, maybe Nadal could make it less difference but he won't ever be on the same ball park nevertheless.

It's the same with someone like Pete, sure he lacks a clay major but how Much does Nadal lack in comparison with him on the other surfaces? Even today with Nadal having won all the majors and having two slams more I just cannot put him ahead of Pete even when looking at their careers as a whole. For me, versatility is one of the best attributes you can have and something I rate highly and always spoke highly of in this forum, and that's why I'd never be able to put Rafa ahead of Federer or even Sampras ATM. I'm only speaking for myself right now and how I'd rate greatness.

This is no hate towards Rafa, as I said he is a fantastic player and sportsman and will always remain a legend, but he is not #1 material or GOAT material player IMO.

Thanks.
 
Julian Houston said:
Thats how u look but most fans won't look at it this way..

Its very crucial Roger stays ahead, Nadal will break his legs for the slam record. Nadal wont retire until 45 if Roger retires.
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As I said, I'm only speaking for myself wich I made it clear. This is my view.
 
Federer is an intrinsically better tennis player than dull. Only Fedhaters don't want to accept the facts, anyone with two eyes can see who the better player is regardless of how many RG dull vultures.

For the sake of argument, if we exclude USO 17 which saw the biggest joke draw of all time, dull doesn't even have 3 slams at another venue when all the GOAT contenders like Laver, Borg etc have atleast 5 slams at two different slams. Just goes to show that dull is a glorified claycourter.
 
Julian Houston said:
Thats how u look but most fans won't look at it this way..

Its very crucial Roger stays ahead, Nadal will break his legs for the slam record. Nadal wont retire until 45 if Roger retires.
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"Most fans". First of all you need to realise that Nadal is getting away with scrutiny about why he is NOT the GOAT anytime he loses, it's just is he injured etc. OTOH when Fed loses, this media starts questioning Fed's GOAT status. So currently, the media targets Federer way more than Nadal and hence Nadal fans enjoy this bubble they live in that there are scenarios where Federer is not the GOAT.
So if Nadal does indeed break Fed's record, Nadal will be met with the same scrutiny and the criticism will be even harsher with his clay skewed resume. So don't take for granted what you see in the media now is a reflection of the future.
 
paranoidandroid said:
If Nadal wins one more AO and Wimbledon and wins a WTF title all while overtaking Fed’s slam count I will accept Nadal as GOAT.
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There is literally 0 chance of this ever happening so I don't think any sane Fed fan is losing sleep at night.

Nadal will go back to losing to mugs or being injured once the final point of the FO final is played. He was on his deathbed before Monte Carlo and you saw what happened afterwards.

He can win another 20 FO titles it still won't make him the GOAT. If you take out his clay results he's another Becker or Edberg. Do the same for Fed on grass (or HC) and he still has 10 majors or more. Nadal is just way too clay heavy.
 
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Nadal needs to win WTF title.According to ATP site the big titles in the tennis are Grand Slams,WTF and Masters 1000.How you can be GOAT when you havent won one of these big titles even once.
 
tennis_pro said:
He can win another 20 FO titles it still won't make him the GOAT. If you take out his clay results he's another Becker or Edberg. Do the same for Fed on grass (or HC) and he still has 10 majors or more. Nadal is just way too clay heavy.
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Do you know how to count?

If you take out Fed’s HC results, he has 8 Wimbledons and 1 RG, that’s 9 majors, not 10 or more. Btw if you do the same for Nadal on HC, he still has 10 RGs and 2 Wimbledons. That’s 12 majors (soon to be 13)

Guess your hate for Nadal is so strong it made you forget how to count.
 
RF-18 said:
Since the slam race is on, I just wanted to give an opinion on Fed Vs Rafa.

Nadal is a fantastic player and will always be a legend of the sport but I just want to give my opinion that if he finishes with the most slams I'll have a tough time putting him ahead of Federer. Federer is just a better player and the gap between them on grass, HC and indoors will always remain the same, maybe Nadal could make it less difference but he won't ever be on the same ball park nevertheless.

It's the same with someone like Pete, sure he lacks a clay major but how Much does Nadal lack in comparison with him on the other surfaces? Even today with Nadal having won all the majors and having two slams more I just cannot put him ahead of Pete even when looking at their careers as a whole. For me, versatility is one of the best attributes you can have and something I rate highly and always spoke highly of in this forum, and that's why I'd never be able to put Rafa ahead of Federer or even Sampras ATM. I'm only speaking for myself right now and how I'd rate greatness.

This is no hate towards Rafa, as I said he is a fantastic player and sportsman and will always remain a legend, but he is not #1 material or GOAT material player IMO.

Thanks.
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Relax, rafa will not surpass federer in slam count. He has not enough time as he is no federer in terms of longetivity, also, one quality clay opponent and the rafa baloon is boom......pinned.......
 
He needs 3 more USOs, 4 more Wimbledons and 5 more AOs and 2 more Wimbledons. Then 10 more IWs. Another couple titles in Barcelona and 1 more AO. Then 1 more at each of the slams and 7 more USOs. Finally he needs 10 titles at the WTF and 2 at the ATP the finals. To round it up he'll have to win three additional sunshine doubles and 9 at Miami to compensate for all the lost finals. By winning all this, he could have a place in the GOAT conversation.
 
tennis_pro said:
There is literally 0 chance of this ever happening so I don't think any sane Fed fan is losing sleep at night.

Nadal will go back to losing to mugs or being injured once the final point of the FO final is played. He was on his deathbed before Monte Carlo and you saw what happened afterwards.

He can win another 20 FO titles it still won't make him the GOAT. If you take out his clay results he's another Becker or Edberg. Do the same for Fed on grass (or HC) and he still has 10 majors or more. Nadal is just way too clay heavy.
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YAAAAAssssss. This.
 
paranoidandroid said:
If Nadal wins one more AO and Wimbledon and wins a WTF title all while overtaking Fed’s slam count I will accept Nadal as GOAT.

Until then, Mury GOAT.
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Nadal has won at least 2 GS titles on each surface (grass, hard and clay), so the Spaniard has his GS titles more evenly distributed by surface than Federer. It illustrates that Nadal had better adaptability at GS surfaces, and consequently outdoour courts. Federer only won 1 GS on clay.

If Nadal ties Federer's GS count (which will never happen), Federer would need at least another French Open title to surpass Nadal.

Nadal doesn't need a WTF. That is compensated with Federer's lack of an Olympic Gold Medal in singles. People from future generations will consider the OG in singles equally relevant as the WTF, if not more relevant. Players can participate in the Olympics only once every four years, while they can participate at the WTF every year. It is like comparing the Champions League (WTF) with the World Cup (OG in singles).
 
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Nadal will have to do very well to pass Federer's count, either by winning RG into late 30s or winning more on other surfaces. Both would enhance his resume a lot. He may end up with a superior argument for GOAT if he passes Federer in major titles, but until and unless that happens, Federer remains firmly above.
 
Sport said:
Nadal has won at least 2 GS titles on each surface (grass, hard and clay), so the Spaniard has his GS titles more evenly distributed by surface than Federer. It illustrates that Nadal had better adaptability at GS surfaces, and consequently outdoour courts. Federer only won 1 GS on clay.

If Nadal ties Federer's GS count (which will never happen), Federer would need at least another French Open title to surpass Nadal.

Nadal doesn't need a WTF. That is compensated with Federer's lack of an Olympic Gold Medal in singles.
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If Nadal ties , You better hope he doesn’t bring another Wimby or AO or it will be three titles on each surface or Double career Grand slam
 
EloQuent said:
Nadal lacks a period of dominance and weeks at #1. He also has the imbalance of mostly being a clay champ.

But how much will casual followers care about the intricacies? Hard to say.
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Not at all. Ask 100 random "watch the Wimbledon Final" style tennis fans whether Serena won more slams than Steffi, or whether Connors won more than McEnroe. How many do you think could tell you? More serious fans who didn't grow up with Fed or Nadal - why will they care? The numbers will likely be so stratospheric that it will effectively be meaningless. Plus Nike and Fed's marketing team have so heavily promoted the GOAT thing that probably quite a few people will just assume Fed is the GOAT in some kind of "objective" way.

Of course Fed and Nadal fanatics will continue to argue it relentlessly till the end of time but that will happen whatever the final score. Imagine if Fed hadn't won FO, got to fifteen slams and then retired. Would devoted Sampras fans have said "Oh, well, of course Fed is the GOAT?".
 
Red Rick said:
If he does, it's very easy for me to put him ahead.

Otherwise I'll have to accept that the GOAT criteria are completely arbitrary on which players you like, in which case Andy Murray narrowly edges out Fabio Fognini for goathood.
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It's easy for anyone who believes slam count is the only thing that matters while everything else are insignificant.

The evaluation of an ATG should includes other important criteria like the ranking(no. weeks and YE#1), performance at the slams(no. of finals, records held/broken), big titles(WTF, MS1000 across all surfaces), level of dominant against the field(annual winning percentage, total match wins against top 10), longevity.
 
StANDAA said:
Do you know how to count?

If you take out Fed’s HC results, he has 8 Wimbledons and 1 RG, that’s 9 majors, not 10 or more. Btw if you do the same for Nadal on HC, he still has 10 RGs and 2 Wimbledons. That’s 12 majors (soon to be 13)

Guess your hate for Nadal is so strong it made you forget how to count.
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Wow u still mad, bro. The hate is strong here.
 
StANDAA said:
Do you know how to count?

If you take out Fed’s HC results, he has 8 Wimbledons and 1 RG, that’s 9 majors, not 10 or more. Btw if you do the same for Nadal on HC, he still has 10 RGs and 2 Wimbledons. That’s 12 majors (soon to be 13)

Guess your hate for Nadal is so strong it made you forget how to count.
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Not that I agree with this sort of assessment, but if you take out HC, Fed still has more slams than Rafa if you extract clay from his resume.

He counted well.
 
mike danny said:
Well, the vast majority of people will look at their slam count and put Nadal over Federer in case he does surpass him. It is what it is. The one with the most slams wins, regardless of other factors.
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That would be true if Nadal established a substantial lead but I don't think would be true if Nadal established a +1. Psychologically also 21-20 looks different to 20-19.

There is no true GOAT anyway and I would hope most sensible fans would agree that if the score was so close - +1 either way - we can say they were both amazing and your choice of the Greatest was pretty much a personal preference.
 
Nadal can only overtake the slam count by piling on more RG titles which only makes his resume look more like a dirt specialist.

Plus there's the WTF, so yeah…no chance of him overtaking Fed's Goatness.
 
mike danny said:
Not that I agree with this sort of assessment, but if you take out HC, Fed still has more slams than Rafa if you extract clay from his resume.

He counted well.
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That wasn’t his condition and you know it. Don’t twist it. If you take out HC, Nadal has more Slams. He counted wrong.
 
Fedforever said:
That would be true if Nadal established a substantial lead but I don't think would be true if Nadal established a +1. Psychologically also 21-20 looks different to 20-19.

There is no true GOAT anyway and I would hope most sensible fans would agree that if the score was so close - +1 either way - we can say they were both amazing and your choice of the Greatest was pretty much a personal preference.
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Nadal would need to get at least 20 to have a case. No more shortcuts for him will cut it anymore like deluded fans used to find for him in 2013 back when Fed only had 17 majors. They used to say things like Nadal only needs 15 slams an the H2H + weak era will take care of the rest.

But now after Fed has established tremendous longevity at 35-36, Nadal will need to go all the way and reach or surpass 20 to pass Fed. No more shortcuts. Especially since Fed has got the better of Nadal in their last 5 matches.
 
StANDAA said:
I’m not. I won’t.

Stop crying you got owned.
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I guess you are since you've been replying to me the entire day in very negative fashion.

And please expand your vocabulary because if this is ownage to you don't even get into a serious discussion with me here.
 
TMF said:
It's easy for anyone who believes slam count is the only thing that matters while everything else are insignificant.

The evaluation of an ATG should includes other important criteria like the ranking(no. weeks and YE#1), performance at the slams(no. of finals, records held/broken), big titles(WTF, MS1000 across all surfaces), level of dominant against the field(annual winning percentage, total match wins against top 10), longevity.
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I can't stress how stupid #1 is for that evaluation. It's massively dependent on a tiny, tiny fraction of the competition it's not even funny. Sampras would never have reached YE#1 if he'd been Federer's age and gotten the same results at every tournament. Ranking is 100% a byproduct of achievement, not an achievement in itself.
 
Sport said:
Nadal has won at least 2 GS titles on each surface (grass, hard and clay), so the Spaniard has his GS titles more evenly distributed by surface than Federer. It illustrates that Nadal had better adaptability at GS surfaces, and consequently outdoour courts. Federer only won 1 GS on clay.

If Nadal ties Federer's GS count (which will never happen), Federer would need at least another French Open title to surpass Nadal.

Nadal doesn't need a WTF. That is compensated with Federer's lack of an Olympic Gold Medal in singles. People from future generations will consider the OG in singles equally relevant as the WTF, if not more relevant. Players can participate in the Olympics only once every four years, while they can participate at the WTF every year. It is like comparing the Champions League (WTF) with the World Cup (OG in singles).
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No one will ever consider Nadal more adaptable than Federer, so cut the act.

Nadal has enjoyed a very good match-up with Federer. It doesn't mean he is more versatile than Roger.
 
mike danny said:
He meant HC or grass for Federer because those 2 are his favorite surfaces just like clay is for Nadal. I'm sure that was the context.
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He said "if you take out Fed’s HC results he would still have 10 or more majors". Who’s counting wrong here? It’s not me.
 
RF-18 said:
It's the same with someone like Pete, sure he lacks a clay major but how Much does Nadal lack in comparison with him on the other surfaces? Even today with Nadal having won all the majors and having two slams more I just cannot put him ahead of Pete even when looking at their careers as a whole. For me, versatility is one of the best attributes you can have and something I rate highly and always spoke highly of in this forum, and that's why I'd never be able to put Rafa ahead of Federer or even Sampras ATM. I'm only speaking for myself right now and how I'd rate greatness.
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Is this a joke? Nadal is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Sampras in versatility. Pete went past the RG QF once in his entire career. Nadal has been to 5 Wimbledon finals, winning 2, and 8 hardcourt major finals, winning 4. Sampras was legit anemic on a surface that comprises a full one-third of the entire ATP calendar. Meanwhile grass is but a footnote (this is not to diminish Wimbledon, but given how much of the tour is played on clay, you simply have to have success on that surface as well as hard courts).

Agreed that Nadal does not have the resume right now to be compared with Federer.
 
StANDAA said:
He said "if you take out Fed’s HC results he would still have 10 or more majors". Who’s counting wrong here? It’s not me.
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Ok, fair enough.

But he wasn't far off. Without HC, which encapsulates the vast majority of the ATP tour, Fed still has 9 majors, which is incredible.
 
StANDAA said:
He said "if you take out Fed’s HC results he would still have 10 or more majors". Who’s counting wrong here? It’s not me.
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2008-2016 AO counts as clay. Which makes Nadal's resume even more clay heavy.

I was being kind here too btw because I basically merged 2 Slams together.

I mean what are we even talking about here, Federer blows Nadal in 3/4 Slams, WTF, most Masters. Nadal won't be greater no matter how many Barcelona titles he wins.
 
tennis_pro said:
And you stop being mad, go for a beer or something because you've been fuming at me the entire day. If you've got a problem with me add me to ignore.
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Dude I literally reacted to two of your posts on 2 threads because one was negative towards Nadal (u mad bro?) and one was wrong. I wasn’t mad, I was offensive. I’m sorry I hurt your feelings.
 
Sport said:
Nadal has won at least 2 GS titles on each surface (grass, hard and clay), so the Spaniard has his GS titles more evenly distributed by surface than Federer. It illustrates that Nadal had better adaptability at GS surfaces, and consequently outdoour courts. Federer only won 1 GS on clay.

If Nadal ties Federer's GS count (which will never happen), Federer would need at least another French Open title to surpass Nadal.

Nadal doesn't need a WTF. That is compensated with Federer's lack of an Olympic Gold Medal in singles. People from future generations will consider the OG in singles equally relevant as the WTF, if not more relevant. Players can participate in the Olympics only once every four years, while they can participate at the WTF every year. It is like comparing the Champions League (WTF) with the World Cup (OG in singles).
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And it's actually a bigger stain on Nadal's resume that he still hasn't been able to win the WTF despite having a chance every year to do so, ergo vastly more opportunities than Federer has had to win Olympic Gold.

And WTF history >>> OG history, which only started to become a thing in 2008.
 
RF-18 said:
Since the slam race is on, I just wanted to give an opinion on Fed Vs Rafa.

Nadal is a fantastic player and will always be a legend of the sport but I just want to give my opinion that if he finishes with the most slams I'll have a tough time putting him ahead of Federer. Federer is just a better player and the gap between them on grass, HC and indoors will always remain the same, maybe Nadal could make it less difference but he won't ever be on the same ball park nevertheless.

It's the same with someone like Pete, sure he lacks a clay major but how Much does Nadal lack in comparison with him on the other surfaces? Even today with Nadal having won all the majors and having two slams more I just cannot put him ahead of Pete even when looking at their careers as a whole. For me, versatility is one of the best attributes you can have and something I rate highly and always spoke highly of in this forum, and that's why I'd never be able to put Rafa ahead of Federer or even Sampras ATM. I'm only speaking for myself right now and how I'd rate greatness.

This is no hate towards Rafa, as I said he is a fantastic player and sportsman and will always remain a legend, but he is not #1 material or GOAT material player IMO.

Thanks.
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Sampras was only a two surfaces man , While Nadal has two majors on each surface , Better on Clay than Sampras on Grass , Better on Grass than Sampras on Clay.In other titles you see Sampras with 10/11 Masters and 5 WTF and Nadal with 31 Masters and 0 WTF.Nadal has a Career Grand slam, Sampras doesn’t even have a final at the French
 
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