If Nole wins RG this year - Is he still majoring in minors?
G A S
Hall of Fame
AngieB
Banned
I haven't been to #Europe in several years. Travel is so much more a hassle since they've implanted all the security features. The last straw was when I was frisked at JFK when my husband and I were returning from the #USOpen. He thought it was funny and laughed, but I felt violated. A little common sense should tell them that just because an older lady accidentally left a broach in her pant-suit pocket doesn't make her a threat to anyone.
You get to a point where you only want to travel when absolutely necessary. I prefer watching from comforts of my sewing room. That wasn't the case 10+ years ago. You will understand one day.
#AngiesLyst
The governing bodies are meaningless as each has its own agenda and politics, not necessarily it the best interest of the sport. What matters is the competition at the tournaments. The prize money in the masters has sky rocketed and this has seen most of the best players continuously participating in these. Aside from the big four only 7 individual winners have managed to take these tournaments down. since 2009. That is 7 out of 59 contested. During this time in the grand slams we have had 3 out 25. So it seems to me that percentage wise they are identical. Those at the top still have to fight just as hard to win these tournaments, as they always play against each other, and the field has rare chances to win. I think when you call these tournaments minor you fail to qualify that these are minor to a player of Djokovic's standard, ie an all time great. They are certainly not minor to a Ferrer or Tsonga. From your tone i understand that you are not a Djokovic fan but we will see once Rafa, Roger, Andy and Novak retire that this era of mens tennis was by far the best.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
The current era of Men's tennis is comparable to 2004.. In terms of competition.
AngieB
Banned
Tour-level #masters wins alone won't get you inducted into the #ITHOF. You have to win #ITF-sanctioned Grand Slam events, hence, the importance shifts to the #ITF-sanctioned events, as they have been the biggest and most coveted tournaments since the beginning of the sport.
Historically, #masters are #minors, anyway you look at it. No amount of historical revisionism will change it.
#AngiesLyst
Prabhanjan
Professional
Even if one has to consider ITF, its stupid to look at the win % in the finals only. For instance, its the #ITF which organizes all the rounds before the finals in slams and not the ATP. Its the ITF that says Finalist gets more points, rewards, etc, than losing in earlier rounds. So, please don't project failures at earlier than finals as better than losing in the finals. #ITFBye 
It's got nothing to do with revisionism. The current masters are a better standard of competition on a global scale than pre open era grand slams. Even the Aussie open was not played by recently as the 80s. I think you need to get into the present, as things have changed a fair bit. Tennis is far more competitive now than 50 years ago, 100 years ago as non-rich people from non-english speaking countries have began to play the sport. It would have been easier to win a grand slam in the say 30's than to be a top 100 player today.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
What you forget is that he lost a couple of those finals in his younger years and when he was still inferior to Fed and Rafa, especially mentally.
Anyways, fact is, he shares the 8th place along with a couple of players more to have won the MOST SLAMS in tennis HISTORY. Isn't that enough to give him a place in tennis history cause you clearly are questioning his greatness in page one. You say Grand Slams are what determines a players role in the history of the game, yet he has 8 slams. Or are you one of those armchair experts who thinks you can only be respected if you have Serenas, Federers and Nadals slam count? Everyone else below are losers?
Wich thread did I make about you? I can understand your age is starting to catch up now, but I did not make this thread. Check again
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RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
What is so hard to get about that? He shares the 8th place along with a couple of players more such as Agassi, Lendl, Rosewall in terms of having the most slams of all time. That woman says he is majoring in minors, yet he has one of the most slams.
Berasategui94
Semi-Pro
AngieB, you have lost the argument. I won.
Bye.
What argument? You posed the wrong question. It's wrong to ask what was before the Big Bang. What if time came into existence with the Universe? You can't have "before" if time is non existent.
So, it's wrong to say Nole is still minoring, since you assume in advance that Djokovic was even minoring in the first place.
It's a trick question. It's like asking you, do you still beat your wife?
So, If I say yes to OP's premise, it means, that Djokovic isn't in big leagues even with 8 majors, which is false.
If I say no to OP's premise, it means that even after winning RG, he would still be low tier.
That's why it's the wrong question.
not at the top end.
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
True. The current dominant champion is a tad weaker compared to the 2004 one.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Damn, just spilt my tea all over my bed! She really does get better and better. :lol::lol::lol:
mellowyellow
Legend
Its a fact that through the years, AusO has been skipped. The RG has been skipped, and even Wimby has been boycotted... their is more emphasis NOW on those tournaments and they are a measuring stick, but its not black and white or cut and dry. Will be interesting if a 5th major is added....
they are not gifting tournaments anymore to rubbish players. if you said 2006 onward then maybe
my point was this the top players play a much greater % of the big tournaments these days due to the prize money, and they also compete with more intensity due to this. Hence making these pretty hard to win, and to do that more as often as he has done it is not minor
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Wich question? I did not open the thread.
All I'm saying to those talking about djokovic majoring in minors, is that he is not since he has 8 slams, and he is is one of the 8th with the most slams in history.
I have no idea what you are trying to say.
mellowyellow
Legend
Def agree, i feel in certain ways its harder than a Major, no rest, 16 seeds, stiffer competition from early rds on. The only thing that maybe makes it easier overall is the bye for some and the 3 set finals.
Ok, then what argument have you won? I thought Angie was also giving credit to Djokovic.
When Djokovic wins on clay it still counts. Only when Rafa wins, it doesn't count.
Rafa is too good on clay, it's his best surface, so he has an unfair advantage there.
But clay is arguably Nole's and Fed's worse surface, so their achievements there count a lot more.
AngieB
Banned
If you had any #CLUE how modern tennis #works, you would concede that winning #masters events will not get you into the #ITHOF. #ITF-sanctioned grand slam events (i.e. #Wimbledon, #USOpen) DO. #GirlBye
#AngiesLyst
AngieB
Banned
Sounds like the beginnings of a glory hunter. I believe the transition has already begun.
Post #2 in this thread. Here, I'll post it for you below to refresh your memory.
^^^^LOOK DOWN^^^^
Now, back to your latest.
#Really?AngieB, you have lost the argument. I won.
Bye.
It appears you continue to suffer from the 23-10 #PTSD which will forever be burned into your psyche. Since you've forever lost that battle, you've taken that energy and have suddenly jumped onto the #********** bandwagon. You are by far one of the most transparent glory hunters in this forum. I can't entirely blame you for that. Most #RogerFederer fans need some type of hope to cling to these days. No, Thank #YOU. #GirlBye
In case I #forget, I will #pray for you now.
#AngiesLyst
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D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
So, if Novak wins Paris this year, lets see.
He will have 9 slam titles - that moves him ahead of Agassi, Connors, Lendl
He will have a career slam on three different surfaces - that puts him with Federer, Nadal and Agassi
He will have won three of the last four slams - holding slams on three different surfaces
He will have had his second multi slam year - Also first player since Courier to win AO-RG back to back in same season
In the open era - only four other players will have won more slams than him, Borg, Sampras, Nadal and Federer
He will have gone from being 6-7 in slam finals to 9-7 in slam finals
He will have equaled Nadal with the same amount of slam wins since 2010
#Will he, in your expert eyes
still be majoring in minors then?
AngieB
Banned
So, if Novak wins Paris this year, lets see.
He will have 9 slam titles - that moves him ahead of Agassi, Connors, Lendl
He will have a career slam on three different surfaces - that puts him with Federer, Nadal and Agassi
He will have won three of the last four slams - holding slams on three different surfaces
He will have had his second multi slam year - Also first player since Courier to win AO-RG back to back in same season
In the open era - only four other players will have won more slams than him, Borg, Sampras, Nadal and Federer
He will have gone from being 6-7 in slam finals to 9-7 in slam finals
He will have equaled Nadal with the same amount of slam wins since 2010
#Will he, in your expert eyes
Tennis history existed for about 80+ years Pre-Open Era which continues to be recognized IN ITS ENTIRETY by the #ITF and #ITHOF. You cannot ignore 80+ years of history in an effort to prop the career of #**********. The most disappointing thing about your generation is how some yield the abject ignorance of history revisionism to dumb-down the history of our sport.
#Laver alone makes #********** look like a crumb on the tablecloth of tennis history. #GirlBye.
#AngiesLyst
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
The question I asked you is after all that, will Novak still be majoring in minors? Even with all the history, you have Tilden, Laver and Emerson with more slams....Now, I ask you again...will Novak still be majoring in minors after he wins the French Open, and does everything I stated above?
AngieB
Banned
Oh, let's see. We cannot forget about #DonBudge, the father of the #CYGS and then there's the All-Time AO great, #RoyEmerson.
I don't know. I will have to think about it.
#AngiesLyst
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
^^^ You've still not answered Hitman's question Angie. Be honest - it would kill you to admit that Novak's no longer majoring in minors if he wins the French this year! :grin:
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
OK, lets add DonBudge and Roy Emerson.
Fine, have a think. I will wait for your answer.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
She wants to think. So lets let her think. She didn't say she wouldn't answer my question, to be fair.
AngieB
Banned
What's the #hurry?
It took #********** 10 years to struggle winning grandslam finals and you demand an instant answer to an historically difficult question to answer?
#AGAIN, I will think about it.
#AngiesLyst
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
Pre Open tennis is interesting only as a historical exercise. Tells us next to nothing about the modern game which is almost another sport given changes in who plays, equipment, surfaces, and the general training and conditioning of the modern athlete.
Djokovik is already one of the all time greats and I suspect will end with at least four YE1, if not more. That's four years of dominating the field somthing I think only four or five players have accomplished in the modern era. There is a good chance he will reach 5 YE. We'll see.
Djokovik is already one of the all time greats and I suspect will end with at least four YE1, if not more. That's four years of dominating the field somthing I think only four or five players have accomplished in the modern era. There is a good chance he will reach 5 YE. We'll see.
I authorized myself to speak in her behalf and I can tell you that Djokovic is indeed majoring in majors.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I'd be interested to know how much more Novak needs to achieve for Angie to consider him no longer majoring in minors. CYGS?
I'm more interested to know how much more Novak needs to achieve for you to consider him equal to Nadal.
Or what he needs to do to even surpass Nadal.
Can you give me a few scenarios with different combinations?
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
12 slams + 200 weeks at #1, 4 YE#1 and the Masters record and I'd probably put him as at least equal to Nadal. I doubt it will happen though.
Cool
. I doubt that will happen too. That's cuz Novak will win more than 12 slams
.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
With that record he'd be clearly above Nadal.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Haha that's true. People who don't major have too much free time on their hands, that's why they don't major. So, they have time to invent phrases for so called "failures" of the world-class.
In the mean time, world-class are too busy winning
"**********" is the new one in Angie's repertoire, presumably because Evert lost more slam finals than any other player(16). Of course according to her, Chris would have been far better off losing in the early rounds rather than now being regarded as one of the greatest and most consistent tennis players ever. Go figure. :lol:
Yeah, I know how you feel, there are a lot of people here with this kind of reasoning.
They would probably say Delpo is better than Djokovic at USO, because he is 100% in USO finals
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
i won the argument cause she has no answer to Djokovic slam count wich places him as top 8 most slam winners of all time. She is saying he majors in minors, yet what I stated above is ignored. Obviously if he is one of the finest GS winners, how is he majoring in minors? Cause he lost finals?
Idiotic. She is the one who came up with that stupid BS.
AngieB
Banned
#See.
Now you've gotten yourself all #worked-up after bringing my name into this thread. I still don't know why you did that, especially since you are such a #HUGE #RogerFederer fan. It's just bad #form.
#AngiesLyst
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