If Novak wins USO 2014, then he is better than Rafa on 3 majors

[tennisaddict]

If Novak wins USO 2014, then he is better on 3 majors/surfaces over Nadal. Just like Fed.

AO - Novak

FO - Nadal

Wimbledon - Novak . 2 majors each, however Novak beat Rafa in a final there.

USO - Novak. 2 majors each. However Novak has probably countless finals and SF.

If Murray finds form, he can also perhaps target this goal. Not really out of the question.

Isn't it an irony that a 14 major winner is still inferior to his contemporaries on 3 of 4 surfaces in terms of performance ?

Thoughts ?

 

[LazyNinja19]

Why talk about "Ifs.........."

CURRENTLY,

AO- Djoko

RG- Rafa

Wimby- Rafa (by your logic -> "However Rafa has 2 more finals" )

USO- Rafa

So Rafa IS currently better than Djoko at 3 Majors! :twisted:

REALITY! You should look into it sometimes. :lol:

 

[zam88]

eh... Nadal may have beat Rafa there, but he's a 5-time finalist who would probably be a 4 Wimbledon winner if he hadn't had to go through the grass GOAT.

I think he has to get that 3rd Wimbledon to be ahead.

Also Ralph has beaten Nole twice in USO finals... so it's hard to say he's better there.

I think Nole can win one more WImbledon and one more USO so then he would be superior provided he doesn't let Ralph win any more USO's... he should be disgusted with himself for last year.

 

[torpantennis]

Isn't it an irony that a 14 major winner is still inferior to his contemporaries on 3 of 4 surfaces in terms of performance ?

Thoughts ?

It'll just highlight the fact that 9/14 of his slams are on clay. He'll be regarded as clayGOAT, better on clay than anybody else on any other single surface.

 

[Djokovic2011]

What I also find interesting is that even though Nadal has twice as many Slams as Novak, if you look at the W/L% at all four majors, Novak is actually ahead in three of them. It really does go to show how RG pads out Nadal's overall stats and I ain't saying that as a hater either.

 

[jm1980]

But Nadal is 2-1 against Novak at the USO. If you say Novak's 1-0 against Rafa at Wimby puts him ahead of Nadal, then you can make the same argument for the USO.

I think the H2H argument is pointless. Just look at the overall achievements at the slam by each player. Novak has performed better than Nadal at the USO overall if he wins another title (currently Nadal holds the edge here), and Nadal performed better than Novak at Wimby thus far.

Current: AO: Djokovic / FO: Nadal / Wimby: Nadal / USO: Nadal
If Novak wins USO: AO: Djokovic / FO: Nadal / Wimby: Nadal / USO: Djokovic

 

[tennisaddict]

Why talk about "Ifs.........."

CURRENTLY,

AO- Djoko
RG- Rafa
Wimby- Tied. "However Rafa has 2 more finals"
USO- Rafa

So Rafa IS currently better than Djoko at 3 Majors! :twisted:

REALITY! You should look into it sometimes. :lol:

1. Beating Rafa in a wimbledon finals counts for more. No point in flaunting the Berdych final.

2. You need to work on math. Even going by your own logic, it is 2-1 for Nadal with 1 tied , but you state Nadal leads in 3 majors.

3. Novak is getting multiple USO and that has never been in doubt. You can question whether he can get another Wimbledon but it is LOL if you think he is not winning more there.

 

[tennisaddict]

But Nadal is 2-1 against Novak at the USO. If you say Novak's 1-0 against Rafa at Wimby puts him ahead of Nadal, then you can make the same argument for the USO.

I think the H2H argument is pointless. Just look at the overall achievements at the slam by each player. Novak has performed better than Nadal at the USO overall if he wins another title (currently Nadal holds the edge here), and Nadal performed better than Novak at Wimby thus far.

Current: AO: Djokovic / FO: Nadal / Wimby: Nadal / USO: Nadal
If Novak wins USO: AO: Djokovic / FO: Nadal / Wimby: Nadal / USO: Djokovic

Like I said, the Berdych win is not the same as winning against Rafa + Fed. And Rafa has the three early round upsets to 100, 125 and 144 ranked players.

 

[Djokovic2011]

It really is amazing to me that Nadal has more USO than Nole. Hopefully that will be rectified in September.

 

[xFedal]

Unfortunately Novak had to deal with Fed. The organizers wanted that match up.

Just think about 2010 SF. Novak had to fight for his life against Fed saving match points while lucky clayboy had a dream draw capped with a SF against Youzhny.

Youzny has beaten Rafa before on hard though?

 

[Steve0904]

Djokovic is still not better than Nadal overall at Wimbledon, and it is very arguable that even if Novak wins this USO, he might not be better than Nadal there.

All in all, a terrible thread designed by a Federer fanboy to rile up Nadal fans. I'd give it negative stars if I could.

 

[MichaelNadal]

It really is amazing to me that Nadal has more USO than Nole. Hopefully that will be rectified in September.

It's amazing because you REFUSE to acknowledge just how DAMN GOOD Nadal is. I like you, but if you just watched the matches that question answers itself. Nadal outplayed him 2 out of 3 times at the US Open with damn good form both times. Djokovic thinks Nadal is the hardest guy to beat and that he has the best forehand but I'm sure you and Chico know better.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Djokovic is still not better than Nadal overall at Wimbledon, and it is very arguable that even if Novak wins this USO, he might not be better than Nadal there.

All in all, a terrible thread designed by a Federer fanboy to rile up Nadal fans. I'd give it negative stars if I could.

How would it be arguable that Nole is better at USO than Nadal if he wins this year Steve? More finals, semis, better W/L%, more match wins. Strange thing to say.

 

[Backspin1183]

It really is amazing to me that Nadal has more USO than Nole. Hopefully that will be rectified in September.

year with Rafa's 3rd title at Flushing.

 

[tennisaddict]

Stats do not lie :

Nadal / Novak

AO - 83 % / 88%
FO - 99 % / 81 %
Wim - 83% / 85%
USO - 84% / 85%

 

[Steve0904]

Novak at the USO is kind of like Nadal in Australia. Both seem to have underachieved just a bit at these respective majors.

In the same way, you could kind of say that Federer has underachieved at RG given the Nadal factor.

 

[jm1980]

It's amazing because you REFUSE to acknowledge just how DAMN GOOD Nadal is. I like you, but if you just watched the matches that question answers itself. Nadal outplayed him 2 out of 3 times at the US Open with damn good form both times. Djokovic thinks Nadal is the hardest guy to beat and that he has the best forehand but I'm sure you and Chico know better.

Nadal outplayed him in 2010, sure. That was a great display by Rafa.

In 2013 I'd say Djokovic wilted away when pressure mounted.

 

[torpantennis]

Stats do not lie :

Nadal / Novak

AO - 83 % / 88%
FO - 99 % / 81 %
Wim - 83% / 85%
USO - 84% / 85%

A clay specialist...

 

[Djokovic2011]

year with Rafa's 3rd title at Flushing.

Man that would really put me on a downer, not even gonna lie.

 

[victorcruz]

Djokovic is still not better than Nadal overall at Wimbledon, and it is very arguable that even if Novak wins this USO, he might not be better than Nadal there.

All in all, a terrible thread designed by a Federer fanboy to rile up Nadal fans. I'd give it negative stars if I could.

Good post. Appreciate some logic from Federer fans as opposed to the constant trolling and insecure threads from addict.

 

[Backspin1183]

It's amazing because you REFUSE to acknowledge just how DAMN GOOD Nadal is. I like you, but if you just watched the matches that question answers itself. Nadal outplayed him 2 out of 3 times at the US Open with damn good form both times. Djokovic thinks Nadal is the hardest guy to beat and that he has the best forehand but I'm sure you and Chico know better.

It's amazing that Rafa has less Australian Open titles than Novak who was very much his pigeon. Melbourne is hot and sunny, just the kind Rafa thrives in and Novak struggles in.

 

[tennisaddict]

Djokovic is still not better than Nadal overall at Wimbledon, and it is very arguable that even if Novak wins this USO, he might not be better than Nadal there.

You probably need a reminder of what Novak has achieved on USO :

2007 - Finals
2008 - Semi Final
2009 - Semi Final
2010 - Final
2011 - Winner
2012 - Finals
2013 - Finals

In the same period, Rafa was MIA once and 4R the other time.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Nadal outplayed him in 2010, sure. That was a great display by Rafa.

In 2013 I'd say Djokovic wilted away when pressure mounted.

Like Nadal in Wimby 2011 and AO 2012? Who cares, the better player won on all occasions.

 

[jm1980]

Like Nadal in Wimby 2011 and AO 2012? Who cares, the better player won on all occasions.

I'll give you AO 2012, but Wimby 2011 wasn't really close.

FO 2013 SF was a pretty bad choke from Novak too, following a choke from Nadal.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Stats do not lie :

Nadal / Novak

AO - 83 % / 88%
FO - 99 % / 81 %
Wim - 83% / 85%
USO - 84% / 85%

 

[Backspin1183]

Man that would really put me on a downer, not even gonna lie.

Who is going to stop Nadal at Flushing? Federer? Del Potro? Only Djokovic has stopped him there once in last 3 years. Novak on the other hand can lose to Fed, Murray and Nadal.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Man that would really put me on a downer, not even gonna lie.

What's there to be down about?

 

[Djokovic2011]

Who is going to stop Nadal at Flushing? Federer? Del Potro? Only Djokovic has stopped him there once in last 3 years. Novak on the other hand can lose to Fed, Murray and Nadal.

Confident aren't you?

 

[jm1980]

Who is going to stop Nadal at Flushing? Federer? Del Potro? Only Djokovic has stopped him there once in last 3 years.

Nobody has stopped me in Flushing in the last three years. See how easy it is to say that when I don't play?

Novak on the other hand can lose to Fed, Murray and Nadal.

I just don't see Novak losing to Fed in Flushing, and Murray can beat Nadal too.

I'd be most interested in seeing a Nadal-Fed match at the USO though.

 

[Djokovic2011]

What's there to be down about?

Nadal possibly having 3 USO to Nole's 1.

 

[xFedal]

Confident aren't you?

If Nadal wins US Open this year belongs to him and if nole wins then this year belongs to him. USO Is the decider for this year again just like it was last year.

 

[BGod]

Djokovic beats him in Australia, I think it's hard to take Djokovic over Nadal at the U.S. Open with him losing both Finals to Nadal but Novak has 5 Finals appearances coupled with two semifinal exits (7 consecutive semis or better).

Here's the Wimbledon breakdown:

Djokovic
Semifinal at 20
3 Total Semifinal Exits
3 Finals
2 Wins

Nadal
Final at 20
5 Total Finals
2 Wins


I think it's hard to definitively conclude Nadal is better on grass. He missed Wimbledon 09 due to injury and that was in the middle of his heavy contention there. However Djokovic has made 6 Semifinals along with 3 Finals with as many wins and Nadal has spun out the last 3 seasons. I think it's close.


If we're being fair I think Novak and Nadal are about equal at the U.S. and Wimbledon Majors and both have their definitive lead in the other two.

 

[jm1980]

If Nadal wins US Open this year belongs to him and if nole wins then this year belongs to him. USO Is the decider for this year again just like it was last year.

I'm thinking neither of them will win the USO this year. A third Slam for Murray is imminent

 

[Steve0904]

How would it be arguable that Nole is better at USO than Nadal if he wins this year Steve? More finals, semis, better W/L%, more match wins. Strange thing to say.

Yeah, maybe it was. I think I'm being a little harsh on Novak because I think he should be better than he actually is at the USO.

Nadal has outperformed him at the USO to this point, and as fantastic a player as Nadal is, Djokovic is a better player accomplishment wise on most HC's except for the USO.

I completely understand and agree with what MN said above me though.

 

[Backspin1183]

Confident aren't you?

Confident? Yes. But not cocky like some of you Novak fans.

 

[Djokovic2011]

If Nadal wins US Open this year belongs to him and if nole wins then this year belongs to him. USO Is the decider for this year again just like it was last year.

The WTF will be the decider. :twisted:

 

[MichaelNadal]

Nadal possibly having 3 USO to Nole's 1.

I assure you, that it's just tennis.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Confident? Yes. But not cocky like some of you Novak fans.

Were you impressed with Novak's Wimbledon win Backspin?

 

[Backspin1183]

Nobody has stopped me in Flushing in the last three years. See how easy it is to say that when I don't play?



I just don't see Novak losing to Fed in Flushing, and Murray can beat Nadal too.

I'd be most interested in seeing a Nadal-Fed match at the USO though.

3 years including 2010.

 

[tennisfan87]

Stats do not lie :

Nadal / Novak

AO - 83 % / 88%
FO - 99 % / 81 %
Wim - 83% / 85%
USO - 84% / 85%

Oh boy, oh boy. You better not go there and bring up that win/loss percentage, otherwise Nadal is the overall GOAT already and a better player than Federer since he has the highest career win/loss percentage in history of 83,71 % :lol:

So, tennisaddict, what it's gonna be? :lol:

I'm just using your logic here. Nadal is the GOAT

It really is amazing to me that Nadal has more USO than Nole. Hopefully that will be rectified in September.

The same way that Novak has the same number of Wimbledon titles as Rafa :-? Be grateful that he didn't have to go through peak and prime Federer otherwise he wouldn't have come anywhere near that Wimbledon title.

Where was he between 2006 - 2010? Even now in 2014 with Federer past his prime and relying only on his serve with no ground game to speak of, he needed 5 sets to defeat him and even that barely. Federer would've ripped him apart in his peak years.

 

[Backspin1183]

Were you impressed with Novak's Wimbledon win Backspin?

Yes I was. He won despite choking the 4th set with his pushing game.

 

[Djokovic2011]

I assure you, that it's just tennis.

I know babe, you're right. But I just want to see 2011 played out all over again. :razz:

 

[MichaelNadal]

Confident? Yes. But not cocky like some of you Novak fans.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Yes I was. He won despite choking the 4th set with his pushing game.

Do you mean just at the end of the 4th set he was pushing? I thought he played pretty aggressive all throughout the match.

 

[jm1980]

The same way that Novak has the same number of Wimbledon titles as Rafa :-? Be grateful that he didn't have to go through peak and prime Federer otherwise he wouldn't have come anywhere near that Wimbledon title.

Where was he between 2006 - 2010? Even now in 2014 with Federer past his prime and relying only on his serve with no ground game to speak of, he needed 5 sets to defeat him and even that barely. Federer would've ripped him apart in his peak years.

Novak just gets no respect on grass :lol:

2011: Win over Nadal
2012: SF loss to Fed (eventual champion)
2013: F loss to Murray (eventual champion... duh)
2014: Win over Fed

Do tell, who has accomplished more than Novak in Wimbledon in the last four years?

 

[Backspin1183]

I know babe, you're right. But I just want to see 2011 played out all over again. :razz:

I'm sure you can find old videos from 2011.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Oh boy, oh boy. You better not go there and bring up that win/loss percentage, otherwise Nadal is the overall GOAT already and a better player than Federer since he has the highest career win/loss percentage in history of 83,71 % :lol:

So, tennisaddict, what it's gonna be? :lol:

I'm just using your logic here. Nadal is the GOAT



The same way that Novak has the same number of Wimbledon titles as Rafa :-? Be grateful that he didn't have to go through peak and prime Federer otherwise he wouldn't have come anywhere near that Wimbledon title.

Where was he between 2006 - 2010? Even now in 2014 with Federer past his prime and relying only on his serve with no ground game to speak of, he needed 5 sets to defeat him and even that barely. Federer would've ripped him apart in his peak years.

No credit for Novak's victory tennisfan?

 

[Djokovic2011]

I'm sure you can find old videos from 2011.

I'm gonna watch some tonight! :razz:

 

[tennisaddict]

Oh boy, oh boy. You better not go there and bring up that win/loss percentage, otherwise Nadal is the overall GOAT already and a better player than Federer since he has the highest career win/loss percentage in history of 83,71 % :lol:

So, tennisaddict, what it's gonna be? :lol:

I'm just using your logic here. Nadal is the GOAT

Didnt you see the stat about 99% clay wins of Nadal contributing to the career win/loss ?

Weak clay era is weak.

 

[Steve0904]

Who is going to stop Nadal at Flushing? Federer? Del Potro? Only Djokovic has stopped him there once in last 3 years. Novak on the other hand can lose to Fed, Murray and Nadal.

I still think Nadal can lose to Murray at the USO. Nadal is not that good on HC that you can just dismiss Murray for Nadal but not for Djokovic. It's not RG anymore.

And I also think there are more threats to Nadal and even Djokovic outside of the top 4 on HC's.