If offered, do you think Nadal would agree to trade a couple of his RG titles for a couple more HC/Grass titles?

[clout]

In a hypothetical world, I think he would be willing to give away a couple of his RG titles for a couple extra HC/grass slams since winning a couple more HC/grass titles would help his case that he's not just a predominately a clay court player. Losing a couple RG titles won't hinder his clay rep one bit since he'd still be the GOAT dirtballer by lightyears.

Discuss

 

[Lleytonstation]

Nope, but he would trade his h2h with Fed for one more slam anywhere.

 

[Centrius]

He could actually trade 5 FO and still be the best clay courter in the Open Era.

 

[clout]

I mean if he traded let's say 3 RG titles for one more title at the other three majors, that'd make his distribution a lot more even. 2-9-3-4 looks a lot better than 1-12-2-3 despite his RG total not being in double figures anymore

 

[BGod]

Something about La Decima so I don't think he'd go below 10. But his 11th and 12th French Open are largely meaningless at this point. Legacy wise it adds nothing.

I think given his 2 five set losses in Australian Open Finals where he had the advantage coupled with 2 more makes me think he'd absolutely trade 1 FO for an AO. Then I think he'd probably like a 3rd Wimbledon. It's easy to forget he lost 2 epic five setters at Wimbledon in a Final and SF coupled with a 5 set epic in the 4th round one year and 2011 loss to Djokovic in 4. I don't think he'd care to have more USOs.

 

[TripleATeam]

I think there's something long-standing about winning 12 slams at a single event. That is the most likely to never be replicated. Even if he doesn't end up the tennis GOAT, he can end up the undisputed clay GOAT. Why would Nadal trade his unique record in order to be worse at what the other two players do?

2-10-3-3 v 6-1-8-5 v 7-1-5-3

Sure, maybe he'd enjoy that, but honestly it doesn't separate him much from Fed in that case.

However: 1-12-2-3 v 6-1-8-5 shows impressive numbers at one slam. It shows he was more successful at Federer's "pet slam" than Federer was at his, and Nadal's decent on hard courts anyhow.

I'd rather have a record that will stand far beyond my death than a record that can possibly be broken by the next generation of players.

 

[Deleted member 762343]

Probably, but he will obviously say otherwise if asked about it.

 

[MichaelNadal]

I would trade 2. One for a Wimby and 1 for an AO.

 

[Lleytonstation]

I would trade 2. One for a Wimby and 1 for an AO.

I think a fair trade would be to trade Fed 5 RG for a AO and 3 for a WC.

 

[BGod]

I think there's something long-standing about winning 12 slams at a single event. That is the most likely to never be replicated. Even if he doesn't end up the tennis GOAT, he can end up the undisputed clay GOAT. Why would Nadal trade his unique record in order to be worse at what the other two players do?

2-10-3-3 v 6-1-8-5 v 7-1-5-3

Sure, maybe he'd enjoy that, but honestly it doesn't separate him much from Fed in that case.

However: 1-12-2-3 v 6-1-8-5 shows impressive numbers at one slam. It shows he was more successful at Federer's "pet slam" than Federer was at his, and Nadal's decent on hard courts anyhow.

I'd rather have a record that will stand far beyond my death than a record that can possibly be broken by the next generation of players.

Well in reality Federer would still have more Slams at 3 of 4 events and 6-0 at WTF. So Nadal wouldn't surpass Federer, just have more hardware from some Slams.

And in terms of shelf life of a record, I'm pretty sure 10 is a very solid guarantee. Federer only became the 2nd man after Nadal to win an 8th title surpassing both Tilden and Renshaw who won 7 titles in the ancient era. And it's a safe bet now Federer won't be getting a 10th Wimbledon. Novak maybe gets 3 more AOs. Maybe.

 

[TripleATeam]

Well in reality Federer would still have more Slams at 3 of 4 events and 6-0 at WTF. So Nadal wouldn't surpass Federer, just have more hardware from some Slams.

And in terms of shelf life of a record, I'm pretty sure 10 is a very solid guarantee. Federer only became the 2nd man after Nadal to win an 8th title surpassing both Tilden and Renshaw who won 7 titles in the ancient era. And it's a safe bet now Federer won't be getting a 10th Wimbledon. Novak maybe gets 3 more AOs. Maybe.

Of course Federer would still be ahead. What I'm saying is if you trade RGs, you just make Nadal into another less successful Federer. This way, his records will stand for ages.

Think about it. Careers used to be 15 years on the high end (17-32) and only a few of them were slam-winning ages. Now it seems that players can last into their late 30s and win slams, extending that shelf life from 17-32 to 17-36. The extra 4 years is a huge thing, and potentially spells doom for future records, particularly if that can be extended further.

Nadal has probably made his record immortal with 12 RG. Even with a 20 year career, that takes extraordinary skill on clay, a lack of other significant clay courters, lack of injury/fatigue, and a mentality that just won't stop. However, 10 is 2 less than 12 (Next time on TripleATeam says the obvious...), and that means it's that much easier to break that.

Say a new phenom comes in, wins 6/8 RG the way Borg did, by 25. To surpass 10, all he would need is 5 more RG over the next 10 years. Not easy, but with the right circumstances it could happen. Now imagine that even after 6 RG, he needed another 7 to surpass Nadal. 7 more RG over the next 10 years. That's nearly impossible unless the stars align.

I really don't think it would be wise for Nadal to trade in RGs in order to be behind Federer in terms of versatility. He needs to win the GOAT debate on his own terms - surface dominance, not sheer dominance.

 

[The Blond Blur]

No, his clay record is incredible, and I think of all the tennis records is the most likely to stand the test of time. People that say him winning more RGs doesn't add to his legacy can miss me with that noise. Any time you win a slam it absolutely adds to your legacy. When people look back on his career they will not only say that he is the clay GOAT, but that he was basically unbeatable. The Guy has won multiple majors on all surfaces a feat even Fedovic cannot claim. Sure, he'd love another OZ Open or 2 (he's had more heart breaks there than anywhere else), but like I said he has more than proven he can win on all surfaces. He's had an incredible career, and the only regret he has is that he was not able to play the 2014 OZ Open the best of his ability. I also don't think he's done winning slams outside of RG, so we'll have to wait and see from here on out.

 

[Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil]

Maybe that 2nd AO would be tempting considering how close he came twice while getting injured on another occasion, but Nadal values all his RGs very highly and never gets tired of adding more. So I say no.

 

[Towny]

12 RG will likely never be beaten. Or at least, not in the next 50 years. Why trade that in? Sure, it would make his career more balanced and improve his legacy on the other two surfaces, but he'd still be a couple of slams short in the slam race with Nole right on his tail. I'm sure he'd love to win a second AO or another Wimbledon, but I doubt he'd trade in his enormous success at RG

 

[mightyrick]

I'm pretty sure no professional player looks at their slam numbers the same way TTW fanboys do.

 

[StrongRule]

All people who voted "yes" should leave and never watch tennis again because they don't know anything about this game anyway.
He has 12 RG titles. His record on clay is unreal. Right now Federer and Djokovic can't even dream about having such numbers at their best slams. Of course it would be great if Nadal could win at least one of the close matches which he lost in AO and Wimbledon, but trading RG titles for that? There is nothing funnier than reading a comment about his last RG wins being "meaningless" to his legacy. It hurts for haters, I get it. Every RG he won starting from 2013 (when he became the first player to win a specific slam 8 times) is a new record in tennis history, an incredible record. Only on this forum we can read that slam distribution should matter more than these records. I wonder what does it say about Federer if a "one dimensional clay courter" is only 2 slams behind him.

Somehow I have the feeling that many Federer fans were not even too upset about Federer missing a great chance to make his slam record safe by winning Wimbledon 2019. They were upset by the fact that this loss made the difference between Nadal in RG and Federer in Wimbledon even bigger than it was, and more than that already next year Djokovic in AO might become a greater player than Federer is in Wimbledon.

 

[Dilexson]

He won't be giving out just the titles here.
It's the memories that came with each titles. Big no.

 

[MeatTornado]

All people who voted "yes" should leave and never watch tennis again because they don't know anything about this game anyway.
He has 12 RG titles. His record on clay is unreal. Right now Federer and Djokovic can't even dream about having such numbers at their best slams. Of course it would be great if Nadal could win at least one of the close matches which he lost in AO and Wimbledon, but trading RG titles for that? There is nothing funnier than reading a comment about his last RG wins being "meaningless" to his legacy. It hurts for haters, I get it. Every RG he won starting from 2013 (when he became the first player to win a specific slam 8 times) is a new record in tennis history, an incredible record. Only on this forum we can read that slam distribution should matter more than these records. I wonder what does it say about Federer if a "one dimensional clay courter" is only 2 slams behind him.

Somehow I have the feeling that many Federer fans were not even too upset about Federer missing a great chance to make his slam record safe by winning Wimbledon 2019. They were upset by the fact that this loss made the difference between Nadal in RG and Federer in Wimbledon even bigger than it was, and more than that already next year Djokovic in AO might become a greater player than Federer is in Wimbledon.

Everything you wrote would still be true with 10 RG titles.

And it's laughable that you think Nadal's 12 or Novak's 7 is why Fed fans were upset by this Wimbledon.

 

[victorcruz]

I would have been happy to have him have an understanding with Djokovic at the start of this year to allow him to get an AO while Rafa gave Djokovic a FO.

But I think if Rafa gives up some of his FOs, that means someone else like Fed or Djokovic gets those instead? I don't think he would do it, as that would mean the other 2 would also have won multiple slams on every surface. Right now it's just Rafa.

Anyways, I would do it. I want him to get another 1 or 2 at AO and another 1 or 2 at Wimby.

 

[AceSalvo]

Nope he would keep his 12 and grab what was offered and run away.

 

[er4claw]

It wouldnt be that simple to find out in english since bull ends every sentence with no. You agree to the trade, no? Yes no or no no? You give me the coup de muskateers, what do you mean by no... hard to tell what he means.

 

[weakera]

He could realistically win 14 RG lol

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

At the expense of other players or not? As in he trades FO 2010 for Wimbledon 2007?

 

[StrongRule]

Everything you wrote would still be true with 10 RG titles.

And it's laughable that you think Nadal's 12 or Novak's 7 is why Fed fans were upset by this Wimbledon.

Last time I checked 12 was more than 10. Winning another RG gives him a new record. It's not only that, it's also the fact that at age 33 he still lost only once in RG when in decent form or better.

As for the second part, I'm not talking about normal Federer fans here, I'm talking about trolls. Realizing that Federer might end up being the least dominant player at his favorite slam (between the big 3) really hurts them. I don't have any other explanations for these joke of comments about the last few RG titles not adding anything to Nadal's legacy.

 

[weakera]

Last time I checked 12 was more than 10. Winning another RG gives him a new record. It's not only that, it's also the fact that at age 33 he still lost only once in RG when in decent form or better.

As for the second part, I'm not talking about normal Federer fans here, I'm talking about trolls. Realizing that Federer might end up being the least dominant player at his favorite slam (between the big 3) really hurts them. I don't have any other explanations for these joke of comments about the last few RG titles not adding anything to Nadal's legacy.

It's a simple coping mechanism. The best way to poke holes in Rafa's legacy is to pretend that clay, and Roland Garros titles, are unimportant. Rafael has become so utterly, historically dominant on clay that Djokerer fans play the "outside of clay" game on this forum every day. It is what it is.

 

[Born_to_slice]

If he wins FO once it has a roof. No point in trading that rained out scheduling 19th century hack job for a decent event like AO or Wimbledon.

 

[StrongRule]

It's a simple coping mechanism. The best way to poke holes in Rafa's legacy is to pretend that clay, and Roland Garros titles, are unimportant. Rafael has become so utterly, historically dominant on clay that Djokerer fans play the "outside of clay" game on this forum every day. It is what it is.

Yes, lol. Reading this forum one might start thinking that his slam record would look much better if he won 3 RG titles instead of 12. I mean 1-3-2-3 is so balanced.

 

[weakera]

Yes, lol. Reading this forum one might start thinking that his slam record would look much better if he won 3 RG titles instead of 12. I mean 1-3-2-3 is so balanced.

Lol. Exactly.

 

[Sudacafan]

Nadal has enough RGs to trade them for anything he’d like to have.

 

[BGod]

Of course Federer would still be ahead. What I'm saying is if you trade RGs, you just make Nadal into another less successful Federer. This way, his records will stand for ages.

Think about it. Careers used to be 15 years on the high end (17-32) and only a few of them were slam-winning ages. Now it seems that players can last into their late 30s and win slams, extending that shelf life from 17-32 to 17-36. The extra 4 years is a huge thing, and potentially spells doom for future records, particularly if that can be extended further.

Nadal has probably made his record immortal with 12 RG. Even with a 20 year career, that takes extraordinary skill on clay, a lack of other significant clay courters, lack of injury/fatigue, and a mentality that just won't stop. However, 10 is 2 less than 12 (Next time on TripleATeam says the obvious...), and that means it's that much easier to break that.

Say a new phenom comes in, wins 6/8 RG the way Borg did, by 25. To surpass 10, all he would need is 5 more RG over the next 10 years. Not easy, but with the right circumstances it could happen. Now imagine that even after 6 RG, he needed another 7 to surpass Nadal. 7 more RG over the next 10 years. That's nearly impossible unless the stars align.

I really don't think it would be wise for Nadal to trade in RGs in order to be behind Federer in terms of versatility. He needs to win the GOAT debate on his own terms - surface dominance, not sheer dominance.

I'd argue the age window went from 18-28 to 20-36.

It is insane.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Probably, but he will obviously say otherwise if asked about it.

Exactly, you nailed it.

It's like Agassi's scripted response when he's asked about Pete's tennis career: "I am happy I won all the majors and I wouldn't trade my career for anyone's."

Rafa's slam distribution would vault up significantly if he had 10 FO's, but two more Wimbledon's. He's still King of clay with 10 RG's, so it only helps his career (tremendously) by having 2 additional Wimbledon titles.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Rafael has become so utterly, historically dominant on clay that Djokerer fans play the "outside of clay" game on this forum every day. It is what it is.

I never see this, so I must have these cretins on ignore. I wasn't aware anyone was playing the "outside of clay" game. Quite bizarre. I'm literally laughing out loud that this game is actually being played here!

@weakera

 

[kevaninho]

I never see this, so I must have these cretins on ignore. I wasn't aware anyone was playing the "outside of clay" game. Quite bizarre. I'm literally laughing out loud that this game is actually being played here!

@weakera

Maybe you do have them on ignore, but its big business around here to always say 'off of clay' when debunking Rafas achievements...

 

[Deleted member 762343]

What is even worse is claiming that clay isn’t a real tennis surface and shouldn’t be counted. I don’t even know how we can say such a thing.

 

[Breakpointerer]

What is even worse is claiming that clay isn’t a real tennis surface and shouldn’t be counted. I don’t even know how we can say such a thing.

@Deon Sanders

 

[JasonZ]

Of course he would, same aa Djokovic would trade at least two auszralien open titles for one more french open and one more us open title

 

[Born_to_slice]

What is even worse is claiming that clay isn’t a real tennis surface and shouldn’t be counted. I don’t even know how we can say such a thing.

Surface is great. RG facilities are not. It's the most physical surface and having advantage of rest is huge. That's why Rome champions all came from the part of the draw that had extra rest since 2011, when Novak did it the hard way. Also, why Nadal doesn't have 10 Madrid titles, since he is mostly playing evenings and courts have 3 roofs, so no advantage of rest for him there most of the time.

 

[The Blond Blur]

If he wins FO once it has a roof. No point in trading that rained out scheduling 19th century hack job for a decent event like AO or Wimbledon.

The OZ Open is way out of Wimbledon's league just as an event. When Wimbledon gets night matches (curfew because of the surrounding neighborhood), play on the middle Sunday (again because of the neighborhood), and ditches the 2-year ranking system (when Nadal wants this people lose their minds) then we can begin to have a conversation. Until then both the Euro slams have a lot of catching up to do.

 

[Born_to_slice]

The OZ Open is way out of Wimbledon's league just as an event. When Wimbledon gets night matches (curfew because of the surrounding neighborhood), play on the middle Sunday (again because of the neighborhood), and ditches the 2-year ranking system (when Nadal wants this people lose their minds) then we can begin to have a conversation. Until then both the Euro slams have a lot of catching up to do.

Their quirks aside, Wimbledon has 2 roofs now. Can't be in the same sentence with RG. Agreed that AO is how slam should be done ideally.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Why would he? 18 is 18 and distribution isn't a relevant argument, never has been other than winning all of the slams which Rafa has done.

 

[crackerspreaded]

Probably not. The only thing that really sets him apart in history from everyone else, is how much better he is on one surface (clay) to what anyone else is on any surface. If he was merely an 8 or 9 time RG champion, even if he traded it for a guaranteed triple Career slam, he still would not stand out in history for something the way he does for one thing now. As while he would probably be the Clay GOAT he would no longer be clearly and far and away better on clay than Sampras or Federer on grass, than Borg on clay, than Djokovic on hard courts, etc..And even with the Triple Career Slam he would still be seen as less versatile without dominance on a 2nd surface, or any ability to win indoors.

 

[Mustard]

No. Rafa wouldn't trade away any of his French Open titles. Winning 12 French Opens is his greatest legacy to date.

 

[Fiero425]

No. Rafa wouldn't trade away any of his French Open titles. Winning 12 French Opens is his greatest legacy to date.

To secure some kind of legacy, I'd guess Nadal would give up a couple USO's and add to that 12 FO's! Right now, even though in 2nd place behind Roger in majors, that imbalance makes the experts skip him in deference to a more balanced great in Djokovic! He came up so fast; even more so than Roger a decade ago when he overtook Sampras in record time! The same will happen to Roger if he were to leave the game today; 2 players might overtake him within 3 years! Nole's already outclassed Fedal in so many other categories with records that may never be threatened! Rafa can keep his FO's!

 

[Deon Sanders]

What is even worse is claiming that clay isn’t a real tennis surface and shouldn’t be counted. I don’t even know how we can say such a thing.

First world nations can say such things

 

[The Blond Blur]

To secure some kind of legacy, I'd guess Nadal would give up a couple USO's and add to that 12 FO's! Right now, even though in 2nd place behind Roger in majors, that imbalance makes the experts skip him in deference to a more balanced great in Djokovic! He came up so fast; even more so than Roger a decade ago when he overtook Sampras in record time! The same will happen to Roger if he were to leave the game today; 2 players might overtake him within 3 years! Nole's already outclassed Fedal in so many other categories with records that may never be threatened! Rafa can keep his FO's!

 

[Deleted member 762343]

First world nations can say such things

I'm not serbian.

Apparently the message in which I said you seem to troll all the time got deleted, sorry if I offended you.