If RAFA wins Gold and US Open...it WILL BE the greatest individual season ever!

[LDVTennis]

No one stabbed Federer.

Steffi's golden slam happened in 1988. Seles was stabbed in 1993. So, the stabbing made no difference.

In 1992, Seles had the opportunity to equal Steffi's golden slam. But, if I remember correctly, Seles was thrashed in the Wimbledon final by Steffi and then did not even enter the Olympic tournament.

Seles also had the opportunity in 1996 to equal Steffi's golden slam. Instead, it was Steffi who won 3 out of the 4 majors. And, despite Steffi's absence from the Olympic tournament, Seles did not win the gold medal at the 1996 Olympics.

 

[edmondsm]

Wow that is hilarious. There is no way that an olympic medal will EVER be as important as a major. To argue that is so silly.

Yes. I'm glad to see that there are more than just couple sane people in this thread who realize that.

 

[BreakPoint]

Wow that is hilarious. There is no way that an olympic medal will EVER be as important as a major. To argue that is so silly.

EVERYONE on the planet knows what an Olympic gold medal is and what it means. Only people who know pro tennis (a very tiny percentage of the world population) know what a major title is. Thus, an Olympic gold medal is much more prestigious to a MUCH larger portion of the world.

It's like the difference between going to the most prestigious college in Argentina or going to Harvard. Which is more prestigious? Harvard, of course, because almost everyone in the world has heard of Harvard, whereas, mostly only Argentinians know the most prestigious college in Argentina.

 

[ninman]

He won the Grand Slam for the second time in his career, that's all. No big deal.

If Nadal wins the Open, I would consider it the greatest non-Grand Slam season ever turned in by a male player.

So making 16 finals from 17 tournaments winning 12 including all 4 GS's and winning 3/4, as well as going 92-5 for the season isn't better?

 

[SgtJohn]

So making 16 finals from 17 tournaments winning 12 including all 4 GS's and winning 3/4, as well as going 92-5 for the season isn't better?

As much as it's hard saying this for me as a Federer admirer, I have to admit that Nadal has a definite shot at completing the best season since Laver in '69.
Anyway, this discussion is pointless right now... In less than 3 weeks, we will know. The US Open is definitely not enough for Nadal to complete the best season in 40 years, but it is definitely necessary...

 

[caulcano]

So making 16 finals from 17 tournaments winning 12 including all 4 GS's and winning 3/4, as well as going 92-5 for the season isn't better?

Clearly not by some people's standards.

IMHO, even if Nadal wins the USO & YEC this year, Federer's 2006 achievements in 2006 would still be better. You just have to look at the stats.

For Nadal to surpass Federer's 2006 achievements, he would have to win all the remaining tournaments in 2008 (which is possibly, but not likely).

 

[BallzofSkill]

EVERYONE on the planet knows what an Olympic gold medal is and what it means. Only people who know pro tennis (a very tiny percentage of the world population) know what a major title is. Thus, an Olympic gold medal is much more prestigious to a MUCH larger portion of the world.

It's like the difference between going to the most prestigious college in Argentina or going to Harvard. Which is more prestigious? Harvard, of course, because almost everyone in the world has heard of Harvard, whereas, mostly only Argentinians know the most prestigious college in Argentina.

i highly doubt an olympic gold medal in trampoline is more valuable than winning the world series. but that's the kind of argument you are making.

plus, weren't there many pros talking about skipping the olympics because they wanted to concentrate on the us open? doesn't exactly shine a good light on the games now does it.

 

[mentalcase]

According to all of the Gold medalists, and even Fed. And according to all of the worldwide sporting audience.

I think you may have lost a bit in interpretation about what Nadal said about the importance of the Olympic Gold.

Heres what Nadal said:

"Well, everything is different feeling, but winning the Olympics is a little bit more special, because I know in tennis, the Grand Slams are more important than here, but here you only have one chance every four years."

Just before this years Olympics Federer Said :

"If I won, it would mean as much to me as a Wimbledon victory."
Federer: Olympic glory would mean as much as winning Wimbledon


If you search a bit you will find references of all the mens and womens gold medalists that say that they all rate it as their greatest achievement. All rate it on par or HIGHER than a slam. None rate it lower.

Just in this 1 article: Gold Medals and Grand Slam Titles Fed, davenport, Agassi, venus all rate the Gold as highly or higher than a slam.




I like Agassi's quote in that article:

Agassi summed up his win by saying, "To win a Grand Slam in the sport of tennis is the greatest accomplishment inside the sport. To win an Olympic gold medal is the greatest thing you can accomplish in any sport."

Interesting. I wonder if Fed would trade in one of his Wimbledon crowns for an Olympic Gold Medal? Would Venus give up one of her crowns for another Gold?



IMO, the Oylmpics is the most prestigious Tier 1 or Masters tournament. I would not de-value, Sampras, Hingis, Serena careers for not winning the OG.

 

[oberyn]

Nicolas Massu.

/end thread.

Exactly. For all intents and purposes, tennis at the olympics has a 20 year history.

If this year's participation is any indicator, it's on an upward trend in terms of prestige and importance, but, let's not kid ourselves and act like it's somehow more prestigious than the slams.

It's a wonderful icing on the cake for guys who's careers would still have been considered great. This is the case with Agassi and Nadal.

Agassi's gold medal took on tremendous importance after he won the French Open in 1999 and had a resurgence. The "career golden slam", etc. At the time he won it, Agassi himself was pretty much the only one making a big deal about it. It was the lone bright spot in an otherwise dreadful 1996.

More to the point, no one acts as if winning the gold medal should cause us to view the careers of Miloslav Mecir, Nicolas Massu, Marc Rosset, and Yevgeny Kafelnikov in an entirely different light, which should be the case if winning a gold medal is just as prestigious as winning Wimbledon! LOL.

 

[BreakPoint]

i highly doubt an olympic gold medal in trampoline is more valuable than winning the world series. but that's the kind of argument you are making.

plus, weren't there many pros talking about skipping the olympics because they wanted to concentrate on the us open? doesn't exactly shine a good light on the games now does it.

Is trampoline and the world series in the same sport? :-?

I thought we were talking about tennis? In any case, lots more Americans know about the World Series than know about the Australian Open. But EVERYONE in the ENTIRE WORLD knows about the Olympics.

You can go to Kenya with your Wimbledon trophy and very few people on the street will be impressed. But show them your Olympic gold medal and you'll be surrounded by a mob.

 

[BreakPoint]

Exactly. For all intents and purposes, tennis at the olympics has a 20 year history.

If this year's participation is any indicator, it's on an upward trend in terms of prestige and importance, but, let's not kid ourselves and act like it's somehow more prestigious than the slams.

It's a wonderful icing on the cake for guys who's careers would still have been considered great. This is the case with Agassi and Nadal.

Agassi's gold medal took on tremendous importance after he won the French Open in 1999 and had a resurgence. The "career golden slam", etc. At the time he won it, Agassi himself was pretty much the only one making a big deal about it. It was the lone bright spot in an otherwise dreadful 1996.

More to the point, no one acts as if winning the gold medal should cause us to view the careers of Miloslav Mecir, Nicolas Massu, Marc Rosset, and Yevgeny Kafelnikov in an entirely different light, which should be the case if winning a gold medal is just as prestigious as winning Wimbledon! LOL.

Brad Gilbert has always said that the biggest regret of his ENTIRE CAREER was not winning the Olympic gold medal (he won the bronze), NOT not winning Wimbledon, the US Open nor any other tournament. It was the Olympic gold medal that he wanted most of all.

 

[veritech]

Brad Gilbert has always said that the biggest regret of his ENTIRE CAREER was not winning the Olympic gold medal (he won the bronze), NOT not winning Wimbledon, the US Open nor any other tournament. It was the Olympic gold medal that he wanted most of all.

i guess for people that don't know or dont' have an interest in the details of professional tennis, a gold medal is as good as a major.

 

[BreakPoint]

i guess for people that don't know or dont' have an interest in the details of professional tennis, a gold medal is as good as a major.

So you're saying that Brad Gilbert doesn't have an interest in professional tennis?

 

[veritech]

So you're saying that Brad Gilbert doesn't have an interest in professional tennis?

no. i don't know why i quoted you. brad gilbert has his opinion and i have mine. i'm just speaking about how the general public might view the importance of the olympics in relation to the majors.

 

[Deleted member 21996]

plus, weren't there many pros talking about skipping the olympics because they wanted to concentrate on the us open? doesn't exactly shine a good light on the games now does it.

That says more about those stated pros than about the tournament itself when you have Nr 1(2), Nr1(1) and 3 on the draw and yet they are going to the uso.

 

[BreakPoint]

That says more about those stated pros than about the tournament itself when you have Nr 1(2), Nr1(1) and 3 on the draw and yet they are going to the uso.

Don't forget #4, #5, #6, #7, #9, and #10. In fact, Roddick was the only one in the Top 10 that didn't show up.

 

[veritech]

Don't forget #4, #5, #6, #7, #9, and #10. In fact, Roddick was the only one in the Top 10 that didn't show up.

don't forget mr. gasquet

 

[BreakPoint]

don't forget mr. gasquet

Gasquet is no longer in the Top 10.

 

[JeMar]

Winning a gold medal in tennis is easier than winning a grand slam for a couple of reasons.

First of all, each nation is limited to the number of entries they can have, so a tennis powerhouse cannot enter all the players that would normally get straight into a grand slam draw.

Secondly, the matches are played over three sets rather than five. You are much less likely to see a top player go down because of inspired play the longer a match goes. This makes for some awkward match ups you normally wouldn't see at a grand slam.

Winning the Olympics is seen as such a great achievement for a tennis player because people tend to append the prestige of winning a gold medal from other sports to tennis, when it's essentially comparing apples to oranges.

For most Olympic athletes, the chance to compete for a gold medal is the apex of their whole career, if not their lives. Most Olympic athletes lead very ordinary lives for 200 weeks before they get a chance to join the other elite athletes of the world for an extremely lavish event, in which all their pain-staking training is finally rewarded. To be involved in this event, and walk away with a medal is a joy of astronomic proportions.

Tennis players, however, are quite different than your average Olympian. For the most part, they are millionaires who lead a jet-setter life style, living in first-class hotels the world over. When they are not competing in tournaments, they are in their multi-million dollars houses, training away. They have had their hard work rewarded already, they don't need a medal to validate their life's work. This is why you often see a relatively no-name player pull off big upset at this tournament and why the top guys don't seem to always play their best here.

Sure, they may say an Olympic medal is the biggest thing they've ever earned, but one would think that if they didn't say that, they'd look crazy and/or snobbish. Again, the allure of winning a gold medal in tennis comes from the achievement it symbolizes for other sports, not necessarily from the difficulty of the undertaking when compared to a major.

 

[Valdez737]

Let go RAFAAAAAA!!!

 

[oberyn]

Brad Gilbert has always said that the biggest regret of his ENTIRE CAREER was not winning the Olympic gold medal (he won the bronze), NOT not winning Wimbledon, the US Open nor any other tournament. It was the Olympic gold medal that he wanted most of all.

I think you need to place this comment in its proper context. This is Brad Gilbert speaking in hindsight after his bronze medal finish in 1988.

Gilbert was one win away from a guaranteed silver medal and two wins away from a gold medal.

That's closer than he ever came to winning Wimbledon or the U.S. Open, where he never made it past the quarterfinals.

Do you think he'd say the same thing if he'd actually come close to winning Wimbledon or the U.S. Open?

 

[BreakPoint]

I think you need to place this comment in its proper context. This is Brad Gilbert speaking in hindsight after his bronze medal finish in 1988.

Gilbert was one win away from a guaranteed silver medal and two wins away from a gold medal.

That's closer than he ever came to winning Wimbledon or the U.S. Open, where he never made it past the quarterfinals.

Do you think he'd say the same thing if he'd actually come close to winning Wimbledon or the U.S. Open?

I don't know. I've never heard him say that he regrets never winning the US Open nor Wimbledon (or the French nor Aus Opens for that matter).

 

[BreakPoint]

First of all, each nation is limited to the number of entries they can have, so a tennis powerhouse cannot enter all the players that would normally get straight into a grand slam draw.

But that sure didn't stop the Russians from flooding the draw in the women's tounament.

Secondly, the matches are played over three sets rather than five. You are much less likely to see a top player go down because of inspired play the longer a match goes. This makes for some awkward match ups you normally wouldn't see at a grand slam.

The Olympics used to be best of 5 sets in every round for the men. They only started with best of 3 sets in 1996.

 

[tennis_addict]

Yes, Laver's '69 was great. But, he was not the all-around brilliant speciman Nadal is. Also, Nadal's competition is greater than what Laver had. Connors and Borg were not on the scene yet. Rosewall and Newcomb were good but not at Federer's level and not at Novak's level, in my opinion.

You cannot compare generations like this

Winning 4 Slams and 18 tournaments is an all time accomplishment - not due to relative competition at any given decade. It is an accomplishment one need to measure his own.

 

[oberyn]

I don't know. I've never heard him say that he regrets never winning the US Open nor Wimbledon (or the French nor Aus Opens for that matter).

Just ask yourself these questions:

Are Marc Rosset and Nicolas Massu placed on the same level as one-time slam winners?

Is the Olympic gold medal regarded as the accomplishment that elevates Yevgeny Kafelnikov past guys like Safin and Rafter?

Does anyone really consider not winning an Olympic gold medal a "hole" in any player's resume?

ETA:

It's not just a case of me not taking Brad Gilbert at his word.

My overall point is that I don't think one can use Brad stating that his biggest regret is not winning the Olympic gold medal as evidence that, in the tennis world as a whole, the Olympic gold medal is more prestigious or even as prestigious as a slam for the simple fact that Gilbert came closer to winning a gold medal than he did to winning a slam.

I have greater regret over not winning prizes which I came closer to winning than I do over not winning prizes that I really didn't have much of a shot at winning. This doesn't necessarily say anything about the value or prestige of those prizes relative to each other.

 

[oberyn]

BreakPoint,

Suppose you've got a player who's won neither a slam (any of the 4) nor an Olympic gold medal. In their heart of hearts, do you think any player is going to choose 2012 Olympic Tennis Gold Medal over 2012 Wimbledon title?

 

[BreakPoint]

Just ask yourself these questions:

Are Marc Rosset and Nicolas Massu placed on the same level as one-time slam winners?

Is the Olympic gold medal regarded as the accomplishment that elevates Yevgeny Kafelnikov past guys like Safin and Rafter?

Yes, if you have the same number of Slams PLUS a gold medal then that would elevate you over guys that never won a gold medal.

How many times have you heard people mention that Agassi won a gold medal?

 

[BreakPoint]

BreakPoint,

Suppose you've got a player who's won neither a slam (any of the 4) nor an Olympic gold medal. In their heart of hearts, do you think any player is going to choose 2012 Olympic Tennis Gold Medal over 2012 Wimbledon title?

That would depend on the individual. Some people might value the Olympic gold medal more.

But this is not a fair question because someone who has never won a Slam probably hasn't earned a whole lot of prize money in their career and could use the $1.5+ million they'll earn from winning the 2012 Wimbledon versus nothing for winning the Olympic gold medal. Many will choose Wimbledon for the biggest payday of their lives and which will pretty much set them up for life financially.

 

[TropicThunder]

Winning an olympic medal is so overrated and plain worldly. When you die, do you take that piece of metal? They place those medals like on pedestals and like something it's worth your entire life or like it's the ultimate prize or something. Pathetic

 

[TropicThunder]

Why did they make this thread? Of course it won't be the greatest individual season ever. Graf won the 4 slams and the gold medal before. It will be a terrific season at best, but not the greatest.

 

[Connors]

Because Rafa has had to beat Federer and he's had to win the French and Wimbledon in best of five matche, FAR more physically and mentally grueling than what Graf did. What the men to as far as winning three sets is simply more difficult and impressive than what the women do in winning best of three set matches.

Endurance, long range concentration, and physical strength are much more required by the men in the slams and in some of the other tournaments than what the women do.

Case closed.

 

[BreakPoint]

Winning an olympic medal is so overrated and plain worldly. When you die, do you take that piece of metal? They place those medals like on pedestals and like something it's worth your entire life or like it's the ultimate prize or something. Pathetic

Do you take a Wimbledon trophy with you when you die?

And when you die, your obituary will read - "Olympic gold medalist so-and-so passed away last week........." Once an Olympic gold medalist, always an Olympic gold medalist. Did you see how happy both Federer and Nadal were when they won their gold medals?

 

[TropicThunder]

Did you see how happy both Federer and Nadal were when they won their gold medals?

So for you that's the greatest thing in the world?

 

[TropicThunder]

Or better put, is that the happiest thing for you?

 

[scineram]

Roger had far better year in 2006.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Roger had far better year in 2006.

The majority of the surfaces favor fastcourt player. If 2/3 of the year was played on clay, Nadal would have a better year.

 

[wangs78]

If Nadal wins the US Open, I think he will have had the greatest season, better than any Fed has had, esp because in so many of his titles, he beat Fed, who is a GOAT contender who is just turned 27. He will not have to win the Masters Cup to have had the best season, if he can win the USO. However, Roger won 3 GS's 3 times. I can't see Nadal doing that, but then again, he is only 22.

 

[slice bh compliment]

Lacking an Olympic singles gold medal is not a hole in a player's career. No Davis Cup generally is considered a hole, which'll be tough for Nastase and Federer forever.

Back on topic....
Certainly Rafa is on the short list of favorites for the Open. I personally think Nole or Rog will prevail in NY, but if Rafa plays well enough to win it (whether he takes the Masters or not) it'll go down as one heck of a season. As good as anything Pete or Federer have ever accomplished in a year.
And if Raf takes the Open, JW Tsonga will go down in history as a legendary spoiler. The answer to a trivia question at the very least.

 

[wangs78]

L
And if Raf takes the Open, JW Tsonga will go down in history as a legendary spoiler. The answer to a trivia question at the very least.

Not sure I would call Tsonga a spoiler bc when he beat Rafa it was not as if Rafa was on his way to completing the Grand Slam (i.e., winning the 4th GS of the year).

In retrospect, we know that yes he spoiled what turned out to have been been a shot at a calendar slam, but when it happened, Rafa was just winning the first of the year, so not exactly a spoiler.

For example, Carl Everett hitting a bloop single in the 9th inning with 2 out 2 strikes against Mike Mussina who was until then pitching a perfect game, that's a spoiler.

But, anyway, I'm arguing in nuances, and I'm very bored. So... anyway.

 

[slice bh compliment]

Yeah, well, a spoiler at the last second would be more dramatic. I'm saying Tsonga will be a little like Iva Majoli....responsible for Hingis' only slam loss that year.

 

[Deleted member 3771]

Federer said winning the singles Gold would mean as much to him as winning Wimbledon. So for him NOT winning the Gold leaves a HOLE in a players career as if they had never won WIMBLEDON in their whole career, or even bigger. That's the common sentiment.

Lacking an Olympic singles gold medal is not a hole in a player's career. No Davis Cup generally is considered a hole, which'll be tough for Nastase and Federer forever.

Back on topic....
Certainly Rafa is on the short list of favorites for the Open. I personally think Nole or Rog will prevail in NY, but if Rafa plays well enough to win it (whether he takes the Masters or not) it'll go down as one heck of a season. As good as anything Pete or Federer have ever accomplished in a year.
And if Raf takes the Open, JW Tsonga will go down in history as a legendary spoiler. The answer to a trivia question at the very least.

 

[ninman]

The majority of the surfaces favor fastcourt player. If 2/3 of the year was played on clay, Nadal would have a better year.

Is that why Federer keeps making all those clay court finals then?

 

[BreakPoint]

So for you that's the greatest thing in the world?

Or better put, is that the happiest thing for you?

Why does it matter to me? I will never win an Olympic gold medal.

What matters is how important it is to the people that actually won the gold medals. And judging from Federer's and Nadal's reactions after winning their gold medals, they were just as happy and elated as when they won any of their Grand Slams.

 

[BreakPoint]

Federer said winning the singles Gold would mean as much to him as winning Wimbledon. So for him NOT winning the Gold leaves a HOLE in a players career as if they had never won WIMBLEDON in their whole career, or even bigger. That's the common sentiment.

I don't think in any of Federer's interviews did he ever specify a "singles" gold medal. He just said he wanted to win "an Olympic gold medal". Which he has now accomplished.

 

[jstr]

Career Slam and ATP tournament equivalent points as computed by ATP method for finals and wins for the modern era ( rounded off obviously):
1) Sampras = 26,000
2) Fed = 24,000
3) Agassi = 20,000
Nadal = 14,000.

Even if he walks on water, he still has to surpass #1,#2,or #3 in career points to get me to sit up and use the word "great" .

 

[Cup8489]

didn't graf win a golden slam? i think that that's about the best season you can have.

plus laver's 18 titles and grand slam in '69 is pretty tough to top too

seriously, i'm happy for nadal.

and to the OP, there have been more one-sided finals before, just not recently.

nadal isn't a god, really.

but he has had an incredible season. not the best, but incredible nonetheless.

 

[Deleted member 3771]

Federer eyeing uncaptured prize

FUNNY

Notice that in the article linked below where he says the Gold means as much as WImbledon that all of the Referenced Fed makes in the article are to the SINGLES. When he's asked who the favourites are , he doesnt say the Bryan Brothers..lol.

BUT I'm sure the doubles gold means more to him than winning the US Open doubles. Thats why he threw himself on the ground like he had won a singles slam when he won the SEMI - IN DOUBLES.

Fed is desperate to get that elusive gold in Wimbledon 2012.

Federer eyeing uncaptured prize

I don't think in any of Federer's interviews did he ever specify a "singles" gold medal. He just said he wanted to win "an Olympic gold medal". Which he has now accomplished.

 

[BreakPoint]

FUNNY

Notice that in the article linked below where he says the Gold means as much as WImbledon that all of the Referenced Fed makes in the article are to the SINGLES. When he's asked who the favourites are , he doesnt say the Bryan Brothers..lol.

BUT I'm sure the doubles gold means more to him than winning the US Open doubles. Thats why he threw himself on the ground like he had won a singles slam when he won the SEMI - IN DOUBLES.

Fed is desperate to get that elusive gold in Wimbledon 2012.

Federer eyeing uncaptured prize

I still don't see anywhere in that linked article where Federer specifies gold medal in "singles" only.

He concluded with this remark:
"I really hope I can win gold, otherwise, hopefully at Wimbledon in 2012."

He did win gold in Beijing.

 

[Cenc]

The majority of the surfaces favor fastcourt player. If 2/3 of the year was played on clay, Nadal would have a better year.

man, dont get it wrong, but you really need a girlfriend

 

[Deleted member 3771]

Put your reading goggles on.

Fed failed. The doubles is just a consolation prize. And he'll be trying to make amends in London 2012 to fill that big void in his SINGLES trophy cabinet. Mabe it will be 4th time lucky.

Doubles achievements don't add to the singles legacy. Or else Woodbridge would be considered a greater tennis player than Federer. Now that Fed has the doubles Gold like Woodbride, he just needs another doubles silver and 16 doubles slams to catch up to Woodbridge in DOUBLES.

I still don't see anywhere in that linked article where Federer specifies gold medal in "singles" only.

He concluded with this remark:
"I really hope I can win gold, otherwise, hopefully at Wimbledon in 2012."

He did win gold in Beijing.