If Raonic is the best the new generation has to offer, Nadjok is going forever....

nadal_slam_king

nadal_slam_king

Banned
If Raonic is the best talent the new generation has to offer....I think we'll see Nadal and Djokovic dominate the tour long after each decline....
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Raonic's baseline ability is a joke. He will never beat Nadal in a slam. He probably won't beat Djokovic either. His groundstrokes have the consistency of a junior. You can't beat the top 2 baseliners in the world when all you have is a serve. His movement is horrific (not as bad as some of the other oafs though). His game is repulsively one-dimensional. And he also appears to lack pride in his results, if his happy handshake at the net for Federer was anything to go by.
 
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Needs more Serve and Volley, Nadal had troubles against Florian Mayer at Shanghai. Against Djokovic, he might need to develop a more solid baseline game.
 
After Rafa and Djokovic, you've got Federer sunsetting. After that it's Murray, who is inconsistent on the big stages.

After those four...It's ugly. I hope that Raonic will be a great player, but he sure doesn't seem like he possesses the athleticism to be a Major winner.

I hope I'm wrong.
 
Once this crop of players has passed there will be one or 2 who get their act together dominate and then the whole weak field argument will come up again.
 
maybe this generation just sucks and the next super champ will come out of the current 16-17 yo dudes. there will be a great player again.
 
Don't count out Delpo. He is just now coming back to full strength after his injuries. He's only 22 I believe.
 
why so hard on him?

slam_nadal_king,
why hammer on Raonic? The guy is still young. I'd rather his serve and Nadal's, wouldn't you? All he has to do is improve other aspects of his game. As long as he's willing to learn new tricks, and short of any serious injury, nothing wrong of where he's right now. If I remember correctly, the last 2 times he lost to Fed, they were both 3-setters, and both times, he took the first set. With a bit of poise, he may not relinquish that head-start the next time. I'd give him another 2-3 years, and if he consistently comes in QF, SF at Masters 1000 or GS, then he's fine.
 
VPhuc tennis fan said:
slam_nadal_king,
why hammer on Raonic? The guy is still young. I'd rather his serve and Nadal's, wouldn't you? All he has to do is improve other aspects of his game. As long as he's willing to learn new tricks, and short of any serious injury, nothing wrong of where he's right now. If I remember correctly, the last 2 times he lost to Fed, they were both 3-setters, and both times, he took the first set. With a bit of poise, he may not relinquish that head-start the next time. I'd give him another 2-3 years, and if he consistently comes in QF, SF at Masters 1000 or GS, then he's fine.
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Raonic's serve is useless vs a top 2 baseliner in best-of-5 where you can't fluke 3 sets. Even in best-of-3, Nadal made a fool of Raonic in their 2 hardcourt meetings. Raonic never broke Nadal, and Nadal broke Raonic in every set. If I had to choose between Nadal's game at age 20 and Raonic's serve I'd obviously choose Nadal. I have no doubt Raonic will beat Federer. Federer is not the top 2 baseliners in the game. Federer is inconsistent and will donate points. Raonic can't change direction sufficiently and looks like a man on stilts almost falling over. Isner is far more talented, but unfortunately Isner is not young.
 
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nadal_slam_king said:
Raonic's serve is useless vs a top 2 baseliner. Nadal made a fool of Raonic in their 2 hardcourt meetings. Raonic never broke Nadal, and Nadal broke Raonic in every set. If I had to choose between Nadal's game at age 20 and Raonic's serve I'd obviously choose Nadal. I have no doubt Raonic will beat Federer. Federer is not the top 2 baseliners in the game. Federer is inconsistent and will donate points. Raonic can't change direction sufficiently and looks like a man on stilts almost falling over.
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If a washed up Roddick can beat down a prime Rafa twice, I don't see why Raonic can't eek out a couple wins over him in the near future.
 
nadal_slam_king said:
Raonic's serve is useless vs a top 2 baseliner. Nadal made a fool of Raonic in their 2 hardcourt meetings. Raonic never broke Nadal, and Nadal broke Raonic in every set. If I had to choose between Nadal's game at age 20 and Raonic's serve I'd obviously choose Nadal. I have no doubt Raonic will beat Federer. Federer is not the top 2 baseliners in the game. Federer is inconsistent and will donate points. Raonic can't change direction sufficiently and looks like a man on stilts almost falling over. Isner is far more talented, but unfortunately Isner is not young.
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to me raonic is better from the baseline than isner. but his return is as bad if not worse, and his serve is not as reliable (although it is huge)
 
okdude1992 said:
to me raonic is better from the baseline than isner. but his return is as bad if not worse, and his serve is not as reliable (although it is huge)
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I know Raonic hits harder than Isner, and can generate more damaging shots, but that is never enough vs a player like Nadal/Djokovic. Their defense makes you hit one more, and one more, and one more, until you overhit. Isner is happy to rally and use the backhand slice and picks his moment better. Raonic has been on tour long enough to learn this, but he's not even close.
 
Don't be so hard on the guy. He hasn't developed great movement yet, but he's only 20. Most players peak at ages 25-27 these days, with such advanced athleticism.

His ground game isn't awful, it's probably around top 50. Of course it looked bad today, he was playing Federer, someone who knows better than anyone else how to throw the big guys around the court. Federer makes everyone look like that. But there have been times where it has been great, for example when he beat Murray earlier this year. He still has plenty of time to develop his ground game.

What I think is very important, however, is that he is rock solid mentally. The last player to hold his head so well at such a young age is probably Nadal. He can always develop his strokes and athleticism more, but having a good mental outlook is something that will serve him very well. He probably won't threaten the top 4 at slams this year, but watch out because I think he has a great future.
 
Fed-Ferrer, 13-0
Fed-Tipsy 5-0
Fed-Almagro 5-0
Fed-Monaco 4-0
Fed-Verdasco 4-0
Fed-Lopez 10-0
Fed-Nishikori 1-0
Fed-Dolgopolov 1-0

Against the other 19 top 20 players, Fed has 8 'bagel' H2Hs. 40% isn't rare.

And if you go below the top 20, you'll find a much higher percentage of bagel H2Hs. Just go to atpworldtour.com and see that Fed is 12-0 against Youzhny, for example.
 
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WhiskeyEE said:
No they aren't. Not for top players. Except Nadal apparently.
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Anyone can beat anyone in best-of-3, it's a fact. If you disagree you just don't understand all the variables on a tennis court which can contribute to a result. Even a match-up like Federer vs Ferrer is not a forgone conclusion.
 
WhiskeyEE said:
Fed-Ferrer, 13-0
Fed-Tipsy 5-0
Fed-Almagro 5-0
Fed-Monaco 4-0
Fed-Verdasco 4-0
Fed-Lopez 10-0
Fed-Nishikori 1-0
Fed-Dolgopolov 1-0

Against the other 19 top 20 players, Fed has 8 'bagel' H2Hs. 40% isn't rare.

And if you go below the top 20, you'll find a much higher percentage of bagel H2Hs. Just go to atpworldtour.com and see that Fed is 12-0 against Youzhny, for example.
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LOL 1-0? Gee, great point. And you only looked at Federer. You are pathetic.
 
WhiskeyEE said:
Does it really matter? Fed has a **** load of bagel H2Hs regardless. That's only the top 20.

Next time don't make such a stupid statement with no reasoning to back it up.
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Fed? I said top 10. Not "Fed". You only looked at one player in the top 10. You are the most pathetic poster I've ever seen in my life. And do I have to specify everything? 1-0? You honestly think the type of bagel I'm talking about is 1-0?
 
nadal_slam_king said:
Fed? I said top 10. Not "Fed". You only looked at one player in the top 10. You are the most pathetic poster I've ever seen in my life.
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You seem really gotten to. I'm not going to compare Nadal to 10th Seed John Isner. We're on the topic of how common it is for top players to have bagel H2Hs, since we were discussing the likelihood of Raonic beating Nadal.
 
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WhiskeyEE said:
You seem really gotten to. I'm not going to compare Nadal to 10th Seed John Isner. That's ********. We're on the topic of how common it is for top seeds to have bagel H2Hs, since we were discussing the likelihood of Raonic beating Nadal. Use your brain.
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Hello? Can you read? I said-

"Bagel h2hs are UNCOMMON, that is a fact. How many bagel h2hs does each top 10 player have? Definitely uncommon."

And before you ask, that doesn't mean Federer vs each player in the top 10, that means every top 10 player vs the tour.

What a waste of time, but fortunately you've just joined Clarky21 on my ignore list. 2 of a kind, the kind I'll never see again....
 
I don't care what you said. Asking me to compare Nadal to the rest of the top 10 is a dumb request in the first place. The only players you can compare Nadal to are Federer and Djokovic.
 
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nadal_slam_king, you are either the most desperate troll or the most antagonistic poster on TT. This is a forum to discuss not to pick fights,for your own amusement, with people you will never see.
 
off_the_bounce said:
nadal_slam_king, you are either the most desperate troll or the most antagonistic poster on TT. This is a forum to discuss not to pick fights,for your own amusement, with people you will never see.
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I think he's a troll. I don't even think that he's a Nadal fan. He just comes here to hate on Fed since he knows that most people like him.

The purpose of this thread was basically to point out that Raonic will never beat Nadal or Djokovic, but can beat Fed. It's a Fed-hating thread in disguise.
 
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I'm a fan of Fed and Nadal, hell my first forehand was like Nadal's but even my 'fanaticism' is friendly. I really don't understand why someone can be so bitter about another player.

Also, Raonic has really impressed me. When he's on his game it's shocking how good he is, although I'm feeling like he is starting to slow down in his improvements, but it's the nature of the game. Dimitrov is really starting to improve though, I hope those two start battling it out more.
 
nadal_slam_king said:
Hello? Can you read? I said-

"Bagel h2hs are UNCOMMON, that is a fact. How many bagel h2hs does each top 10 player have? Definitely uncommon."

And before you ask, that doesn't mean Federer vs each player in the top 10, that means every top 10 player vs the tour.

What a waste of time, but fortunately you've just joined Clarky21 on my ignore list. 2 of a kind, the kind I'll never see again....
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Federer has plenty of bagels against top 30 players. Some even go as far as 13-0, 14-0 ... I don't think bagel h2h is uncommon at all, especially for the current top 3.
 
Sampras will come out of retirement to win several more Wimbledons and a couple USOs. After he holds the number one spot for a year, he will reretire.
 
Just out of interest, the current top 10 players have the following bagel H2Hs against each other:

Nadal:
v Tipsarevic 2-0
v Isner 3-0

Federer:
v Ferrer 13-0
v Tipsarevic 5-0

Murray:
v Isner 2-0

Tipsarevic:
v Isner 1-0

Del Potro:
v Tipsarevic 3-0
v Isner 3-0

Tipsarevic and Isner seem to be on the receiving end for most H2H bagels while Ferrer is on the receiving end of by far the largest one.
 
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nadal_slam_king said:
Even in best-of-3, Nadal made a fool of Raonic in their 2 hardcourt meetings. Raonic never broke Nadal, and Nadal broke Raonic in every set.
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Yeah, at the Japan Open in 2010, Nadal beat the qualifier and 200th ranked Raonic 6-4, 6-4, with Raonic dominating the entire stat sheet except for break point conversions. Boy, Nadal really made a fool of Raonic there and truly showed why he's such a dominant fast hard court player! lolll

Congratulations, you really have a gift for embarrassing yourself...
 
Only time will tell

As I said about Raonic, let's wait 2-3 years before putting down a decision whether or not he's good. I would say the same for Rafa and Djoker, let's wait and see how they do when reaching 30-31 year old. Let just wait and see if Rafa can even equal Fed's 16 GS titles, and the same can be said about Djoker. Not granted that Rafa will win the next 5-6 FO either. And I certainly don't bet my house on Rafa on any other surface. Wimby coming up, let see how he does there? BTW, for nadal_slam_king, Nadal just got bounced off Halle tournament. Go ahead and bet on Nadal vs Raonic the next time they meet at Wimby.
 
nadal_slam_king said:
If Raonic is the best talent the new generation has to offer....I think we'll see Nadal and Djokovic dominate the tour long after each decline....
2zq53m9.gif

4153995.jpg

Raonic's baseline ability is a joke. He will never beat Nadal in a slam. He probably won't beat Djokovic either. His groundstrokes have the consistency of a junior. You can't beat the top 2 baseliners in the world when all you have is a serve. His movement is horrific (not as bad as some of the other oafs though). His game is repulsively one-dimensional. And he also appears to lack pride in his results, if his happy handshake at the net for Federer was anything to go by.
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I wouldn't go that far.

Nadal hasn't played Raonic this year yet, Nadal is a momentum/rhythm player, with Raonic He won't get it, He will get aced back and forth, and another point is: Raonic in 2 serves can erase break points quickly and take chances on Nadal's serve, despite of Raonic having and terrible return.

In quick surfaces it is very difficult to break his serve, which is the best on the tour. He can still improve a lot.

Fed has done the service for Nadal and Djokovic in all slams and draw this year, He has taken Del Potro/Raonic amongst others out, I hope both can be on Nadal and Djokovic's draw so we can see these match ups.
 
nadal_slam_king said:
If Raonic is the best talent the new generation has to offer....I think we'll see Nadal and Djokovic dominate the tour long after each decline....
2zq53m9.gif

4153995.jpg

Raonic's baseline ability is a joke. He will never beat Nadal in a slam. He probably won't beat Djokovic either. His groundstrokes have the consistency of a junior. You can't beat the top 2 baseliners in the world when all you have is a serve. His movement is horrific (not as bad as some of the other oafs though). His game is repulsively one-dimensional. And he also appears to lack pride in his results, if his happy handshake at the net for Federer was anything to go by.
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Take the huge serve away and he's not a big deal. There have been so many others like him though; Isner right now, Krajicek, Ivanisevic, Rosset, etc. I can't stand to watch big servers play. I can't even stand to watch Isner play and I support American players 100%.

Rosset I could tolerate a little or some reason. But not much. It's just too one dimensional to keep my interest. I'd Canadian dude wins a big one I'm not likely to be watching.

But these guys make the most of their gifts so I can't blame them for capitalizing. I just can't watch it.
 
t135 said:
Take the huge serve away and he's not a big deal. There have been so many others like him though; Isner right now, Krajicek, Ivanisevic, Rosset, etc. I can't stand to watch big servers play. I can't even stand to watch Isner play and I support American players 100%.

Rosset I could tolerate a little or some reason. But not much. It's just too one dimensional to keep my interest. I'd Canadian dude wins a big one I'm not likely to be watching.

But these guys make the most of their gifts so I can't blame them for capitalizing. I just can't watch it.
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Serve is part of the game just like any other fundamental.

Take Nadal's movement and speed, He's not a big deal.

Take Djokovic's athleticism away, he is not a big deal.

Your post makes no sense.

Raonic is getting better just like Nadal got better, could not serve on right handeded player's forehand, could not volley, had no inside out forehand, still doesn't have a dtl forehand, had a bad bh, now look how much better he is now.

BTW Nadal models his game on Federer's game, despite of the differences.
 
Maybe Raonic or Tomic will pull a Federer and just randomly become GOATs.
 
nadal_slam_king said:
If Raonic is the best talent the new generation has to offer....I think we'll see Nadal and Djokovic dominate the tour long after each decline....
2zq53m9.gif

4153995.jpg

Raonic's baseline ability is a joke. He will never beat Nadal in a slam. He probably won't beat Djokovic either. His groundstrokes have the consistency of a junior. You can't beat the top 2 baseliners in the world when all you have is a serve. His movement is horrific (not as bad as some of the other oafs though). His game is repulsively one-dimensional. And he also appears to lack pride in his results, if his happy handshake at the net for Federer was anything to go by.
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So what you are trying to say is that because of the hopelessly slow courts in slams, one-dimensional baseline pushers like Djokovic and Nadal will dominate? It does not take much of a savant to discern that, considering that this is the present unfortunate dilemna tennis fans are facing.
 
t135 said:
Take the huge serve away and he's not a big deal. There have been so many others like him though; Isner right now, Krajicek, Ivanisevic, Rosset, etc. .
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Perhaps because the other guys don't have good (lateral) mobility? I remember reading somewhere that Raonic has improved on that aspect the last 2 years. Again perhaps he's still not as mobile as Fed, Rafa, or Djoker, but we're comparing him to the top 3, and talking about a 6foot5, ~200lbs player. Perhaps a fairer comparison is between Raonic and Delpo, or Berdych, or Soderling (height, weight, ~style of play). If so, I don't think Raonic is so bad. As for a big serve, I'd rather have it as a 'natural gift' then work on other aspects. With it, I can win easy points, shorten a lot of rallies, and put pressure on my opponent to hold his own serve. Go and ask Rafa and Djoker why they have tried to improve their own serve the last few years, and it's not that their own serve was bad to start with, but just not good enough to give them freebies.
 
VPhuc tennis fan said:
Perhaps because the other guys don't have good (lateral) mobility? I remember reading somewhere that Raonic has improved on that aspect the last 2 years. Again perhaps he's still not as mobile as Fed, Rafa, or Djoker, but we're comparing him to the top 3, and talking about a 6foot5, ~200lbs player. Perhaps a fairer comparison is between Raonic and Delpo, or Berdych, or Soderling (height, weight, ~style of play). If so, I don't think Raonic is so bad. As for a big serve, I'd rather have it as a 'natural gift' then work on other aspects. With it, I can win easy points, shorten a lot of rallies, and put pressure on my opponent to hold his own serve. Go and ask Rafa and Djoker why they have tried to improve their own serve the last few years, and it's not that their own serve was bad to start with, but just not good enough to give them freebies.
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If Nadjokovic had to choose between their mobility and Raonics serve (with awful mobility), obviously they'd choose their mobility. Raonic will never improve his mobility sufficiently enough to beat Nadjokovic in a slam. Whereas Nadjokovic improved their serves enough to be elite players (actually, they would still be elite with their 2007 serves).

Raonic feels immense pressure when he plays Nadal, because if Raonic misses a first serve and Nadal gets the 2nd serve back then Raonic will probably lose the point. That is why Raonic can't hold his serve for a set vs Nadal. And he can't break Nadal's serve.
 
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