If Raonic is the best the new generation has to offer, Nadjok is going forever....

laughingbuddha said:
So what you are trying to say is that because of the hopelessly slow courts in slams, one-dimensional baseline pushers like Djokovic and Nadal will dominate? It does not take much of a savant to discern that, considering that this is the present unfortunate dilemna tennis fans are facing.
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False post.

Oh, and 2011 Roland Garros is the fastest Roland Garros we've seen. And even though this year wasn't as fast as 2011, it was not as slow as the 1990s/80s.
 
nadal_slam_king said:
False post.

Oh, and 2011 Roland Garros is the fastest Roland Garros we've seen. And even though this year wasn't as fast as 2011, it was not as slow as the 1990s/80s.
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any proof about RG this year is the fastest? Can you post up some scientific data, not just hearsay from players?
I just don't recall reading anything about it. If anything, it's the same old red clay, as slow as ever. Rain, wind, just made it even harder to play an attack style, that's all.
 
VPhuc tennis fan said:
any proof about RG this year is the fastest? Can you post up some scientific data, not just hearsay from players?
I just don't recall reading anything about it. If anything, it's the same old red clay, as slow as ever. Rain, wind, just made it even harder to play an attack style, that's all.
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Anyone who was alive in 2011 should recall the over-whelming consensus regarding how fast RG was and how it was Federer's chance to beat Nadal etc.
 
nadal_slam_king said:
Anyone who was alive in 2011 should recall the over-whelming consensus regarding how fast RG was and how it was Federer's chance to beat Nadal etc.
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read his post, he is talking about this year being faster than the 80/90's. No doubt with the conditions and the balls last year was the fastest.
 
nadal_slam_king said:
Anyone who was alive in 2011 should recall the over-whelming consensus regarding how fast RG was and how it was Federer's chance to beat Nadal etc.
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Scientific data, please! Not hearsay. Post a link to a scientific journal where they measure the speed of the bounce, the density of the court, weather affecting the ball speed traveling through hot vs humid air, etc. And don't please forget, the scientific data MUST BE BASED on 2011 vs whatever previous year. "Overwhelming consensus"? From who? Can I have a, if not more than one, scientific journals posting such data? Scientific data, not hearsay, please!
 
VPhuc tennis fan said:
Scientific data, please! Not hearsay. Post a link to a scientific journal where they measure the speed of the bounce, the density of the court, weather affecting the ball speed traveling through hot vs humid air, etc. And don't please forget, the scientific data MUST BE BASED on 2011 vs whatever previous year. "Overwhelming consensus"? From who? Can I have a, if not more than one, scientific journals posting such data? Scientific data, not hearsay, please!
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No way to prove how fast 2012 is, apart from observation (which you aren't capable of). But 2011, just read players interviews.
 
laughingbuddha said:
So what you are trying to say is that because of the hopelessly slow courts in slams, one-dimensional baseline pushers like Djokovic and Nadal will dominate? It does not take much of a savant to discern that, considering that this is the present unfortunate dilemna tennis fans are facing.
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what Djokovic....one dimensional? that's the first time I have heard this. What are you smoking?
 
nadal_slam_king said:
No way to prove how fast 2012 is, apart from observation (which you aren't capable of). But 2011, just read players interviews.
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So "no way to prove", so no scientific data to back up your argument, right? You're left with "player interview". Boy, oh boy, you realize each player has his/her own preference on how the ball should bounce for him/her, right? Anything off of that, of course, it's gonna be slower or faster, right? Red clay at RG is just...red clay, slow. I'd be very carefully about hearsay, e.g. player interview. That's not gonna hold in a court of law, you realize that , don't you? Granted, we're in a tennis forum, nevertheless, so much faith on "player interview",...
 
When does a big-serving very tall guy ever get to the very top these days on the slower courts we have now. These Isner/Karlovic types will never have the movement to dominate the modern game. Raonic has talent, but is just not built the right way for the modern game. He is too big, too slow and simply not the athlete others are which will always let him down.
 
laughingbuddha said:
So what you are trying to say is that because of the hopelessly slow courts in slams, one-dimensional baseline pushers like Djokovic and Nadal will dominate? It does not take much of a savant to discern that, considering that this is the present unfortunate dilemna tennis fans are facing.
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Surely the big-serving oafs like Isner and Raonic who can't rally from the baseline or move around the court are the more one-dimensional?? It's either service winner or lose the point. Tell me please, what is the more one-dimensional?
 
pds999 said:
When does a big-serving very tall guy ever get to the very top these days on the slower courts we have now. These Isner/Karlovic types will never have the movement to dominate the modern game. Raonic has talent, but is just not built the right way for the modern game. He is too big, too slow and simply not the athlete others are which will always let him down.
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Time will tell, no? As long as he keeps improving his conditioning, and learning...Hard to say when the barrier is until you hit it. For Raonic, I believe the barrier is still way ahead. Improvement still needed, but hitting the glass ceiling already, neah, not yet.
 
Djokodal Fan said:
what Djokovic....one dimensional? that's the first time I have heard this. What are you smoking?
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If this was the first time you heard this, I suggest you step out your cave and/or watch some of his matches. However, you cannot be blamed for avoiding his matches as you could be far more entertained by sleeping or running errands.
 
netlets said:
Don't count out Delpo. He is just now coming back to full strength after his injuries. He's only 22 I believe.
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he's going to be 24 in a few months. And he's been back well over a year. time to stop making excuses for him and start understanding why the top players beat him. one, movement. two transition from defense to offense. watch fed play him and you will soon discover his weaknesses as a player.
 
laughingbuddha said:
If this was the first time you heard this, I suggest you step out your cave and/or watch some of his matches. However, you cannot be blamed for avoiding his matches as you could be far more entertained by sleeping or running errands.
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you should watch some of his matches bud as you have no clue what you are talking about (and yes, I've seen many of his matches since 2005). Djoko is fun to watch. he is pretty versatile. and please define this 'one dimensional thingy' and enlighten us. sheesh ... you go back to your cave idiot. just another 12 yo 'tennis expert' ... whatever
 
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laughingbuddha said:
If this was the first time you heard this, I suggest you step out your cave and/or watch some of his matches. However, you cannot be blamed for avoiding his matches as you could be far more entertained by sleeping or running errands.
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Right. Djkovic and Rafa are one-dimensional players who rose to the top echelon of the sport by fluke and by playing in a mug era. On the other hand Milos "serving wonder" Raonic is the super versatile player who will save tennis in the future.

I think you should take up a sport like NASCAR or something which is easier for you to understand and wont stress the solitary brain cell that you seem to possess.
 
tistrapukcipeht said:
Serve is part of the game just like any other fundamental.

Take Nadal's movement and speed, He's not a big deal.

Take Djokovic's athleticism away, he is not a big deal.

Your post makes no sense.

Raonic is getting better just like Nadal got better, could not serve on right handeded player's forehand, could not volley, had no inside out forehand, still doesn't have a dtl forehand, had a bad bh, now look how much better he is now.

BTW Nadal models his game on Federer's game, despite of the differences.
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Well let's see. Nadal has a great serve, killer forehand, killer backhand (topspin and slice), outstanding offense and wicked defense, and he volleys well. Then you've got his outrageous fitness, movement and speed. And the mental toughness of an army. That, my friend, is why he's won all four slams (some multiple times) and has dominated for so many years.

Movement and speed alone don't win tennis matchess consistently. Seems you don't know much about what it takes to win in tennis. No?

Your post makes no sense.
 
t135 said:
Well let's see. Nadal has a great serve, killer forehand, killer backhand (topspin and slice), outstanding offense and wicked defense, and he volleys well. Then you've got his outrageous fitness, movement and speed. And the mental toughness of an army. That, my friend, is why he's won all four slams (some multiple times) and has dominated for so many years.

Movement and speed alone don't win tennis matchess consistently. Seems you don't know much about what it takes to win in tennis. No?

Your post makes no sense.
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So quick to jump to Nadal's defense, ha? So quick that you didn't read the post correctly. What he said was Raonic is and will get better just as Rafa was doing a few years ago. Back then, Rafa's serve was just average, not enough to be killed outright, but certainly not enough to win him freebies (compared to his today serve anyway). Killer FH, yes. Killer BH (hah? what did I miss here?) Anyway, the point is Rafa improved all these things, and Raonic barring being stupid and stubborn and suffering from serious injuries, will also improve. To the point of a GS contender or win one? No one knows even himself? Time will tell...I'd give 2-3 years before saying anything definitive. In the meanwhile, love Rafa but don't defend him so blindly to the point of being ridiculous!
 
pds999 said:
When does a big-serving very tall guy ever get to the very top these days on the slower courts we have now. These Isner/Karlovic types will never have the movement to dominate the modern game. Raonic has talent, but is just not built the right way for the modern game. He is too big, too slow and simply not the athlete others are which will always let him down.
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Has a big serving tall guy ever dominated the men's game during the open era?

Several have made it near the top but never dominated. Because it takes more than a big serve to consistently win big events.
 
t135 said:
Goran did pretty well at Wimbledon and won once but...that's not exactly dominating the game except for those two weeks. But for those two weeks he did it.
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oh well, he had his 5 minutes of fame (or 2 weeks):). Nevertheless I agree with all the posters that it takes more than just a weapon to rise to #1. Re-read my posts. I said as long as Raonic shows improvement in the next 2-3 years both technically and mentally, he will become more dangerous. His serve is already a gift that I wouldn't give up by any accounts.
 
VPhuc tennis fan said:
So quick to jump to Nadal's defense, ha? So quick that you didn't read the post correctly. What he said was Raonic is and will get better just as Rafa was doing a few years ago. Back then, Rafa's serve was just average, not enough to be killed outright, but certainly not enough to win him freebies (compared to his today serve anyway). Killer FH, yes. Killer BH (hah? what did I miss here?) Anyway, the point is Rafa improved all these things, and Raonic barring being stupid and stubborn and suffering from serious injuries, will also improve. To the point of a GS contender or win one? No one knows even himself? Time will tell...I'd give 2-3 years before saying anything definitive. In the meanwhile, love Rafa but don't defend him so blindly to the point of being ridiculous!
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I'm not so sure Nadal needs defending does he? His game and results speak for themselves, and he's on TV constantly so it's there for all of us to see. I'm just making objective observations of the guy. He isn't my favorite player but he certainly has an impressive body of work. Hard to argue with his amazing professional career.

You make some very good observations though, he had to develop his game although his development has been extraordinary. Think about that lefty backhand and the easy target it is for all the righty cross court forehands. He may not rip it as hard as his forehand but it's a major asset not a liability. Compare to Roddicks backhand and other two handers on the tour.

I'm more of a Federer guy for sure but, some players just earn and deserve respect. Others are just fun to watch even if they aren't headed to a hall of fame career. :-)
 
papertank said:
Don't be so hard on the guy. He hasn't developed great movement yet, but he's only 20. Most players peak at ages 25-27 these days, with such advanced athleticism.

His ground game isn't awful, it's probably around top 50. Of course it looked bad today, he was playing Federer, someone who knows better than anyone else how to throw the big guys around the court. Federer makes everyone look like that. But there have been times where it has been great, for example when he beat Murray earlier this year. He still has plenty of time to develop his ground game.

What I think is very important, however, is that he is rock solid mentally. The last player to hold his head so well at such a young age is probably Nadal. He can always develop his strokes and athleticism more, but having a good mental outlook is something that will serve him very well. He probably won't threaten the top 4 at slams this year, but watch out because I think he has a great future.
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I'd like to see him defend some points or a title before I pass judgement on his 'rock solid mentality'.

Rafa had overpowering confidence until he had to defend some titles, then we saw that he is only human.

Raonic is only 20, but top players already have very developed game by 15-17. At that level you can tweak what you already have but its rare to see someone completely revolutionize their game with already 10-15 years of tennis under their belt.

I'd like to see him serve as well in a championship match--better yet defending the points--to believe he has a shot.

--

I'm hopeful of Tomic as he has the game and speed/footwork is easier to improve than FH BH technique. I also used to hit with Tomic when he was 11/12, so it would please me to see him take a GS.
 
MDCCLXXVI said:
I'd like to see him defend some points or a title before I pass judgement on his 'rock solid mentality'.

Rafa had overpowering confidence until he had to defend some titles, then we saw that he is only human.
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Nadal holds the record for most title defenses, winning the Monte Carlo Masters 8 straight years. Nobody defends titles better than Nadal.
 
nadal_slam_king said:
Big servers can take 2 sets from Nadal, but not 3.
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WRONG!! del potro beat him at the USO 09 sf by some huge serving..in straights that too(6-2 6-2 6-2 lolzz at the score..)nadal himself had said that juan martin's serve that day was too dfficult to handle and that his serves were bouncing all over him and he could barely reach..Big Servers with some half-decent baseline play can give nightmares to nadal..especially on grass..if he has to face raonic in the 2r or 3r in wimby i think nadal should be worried
 
nadal_slam_king said:
None, but I think Federer only defended one clay title, and he's almost supposed to be as good as Laver, so its obviously not important to defend away from your favorite surface.
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oh in that case..fed has just one weaker surface and even there he hz defended 1 whereas for ur beloved rafa every other surface than clay is a weak surface and he defended none there..that shows nadal is nowhere near federer when it comes to goat contention !!:lol:
 
The next big thing in tennis has not yet been born. It took 30 years from the birth of one King of Clay, Bjorn Borg, for the next King of Clay, Rafael Nadal, to be born.
 
All of this Rafa defending nonsense is silly. Obviously its good to be versatile but what will make you a great player is how dominant you are on your best surface and Rafa is near unstoppable on clay.
 
primetennis said:
WRONG!! del potro beat him at the USO 09 sf by some huge serving..in straights that too(6-2 6-2 6-2 lolzz at the score..)nadal himself had said that juan martin's serve that day was too dfficult to handle and that his serves were bouncing all over him and he could barely reach..Big Servers with some half-decent baseline play can give nightmares to nadal..especially on grass..if he has to face raonic in the 2r or 3r in wimby i think nadal should be worried
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Exactly. Doesn't make much sense, does it?
tennisreporters-tweet.jpg
 
WhiskeyEE said:
Does it really matter? Fed has a **** load of bagel H2Hs regardless. That's only the top 20.

Next time don't make such a statement with no reasoning to back it up.
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I'm looking forward to Rafa winning his 20th match against Federer..........not long to go. Djokovic and Federer are nearly neck and neck in line for the honour of losing 20 times to Nadal.:)
 
TennisMaestro said:
All of this Rafa defending nonsense is silly. Obviously its good to be versatile but what will make you a great player is how dominant you are on your best surface and Rafa is near unstoppable on clay.
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And speaking of versatility, Nadal can win his 3rd Channel Slam if he wins this Wimbledon. Borg has won 3, the record. Plus, judging by the 2012 AO, looks like Nadal has a great chance at more hardcourt slams.
 
clayqueen said:
The next big thing in tennis has not yet been born. It took 30 years from the birth of one King of Clay, Bjorn Borg, for the next King of Clay, Rafael Nadal, to be born.
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claygoof, I assume you are a NSK's sister. please do me a favor and do NOT put your butt picker and Borg in the same sentence (and no, I don't care how many RG butt picker won). and even your nick is so pretentious, oh 'clayqueen' (what are you queen of, really?) whatever, so ********.

we have Nadal king,
now we got Nadal queen,
what's next, Nadal princess ...
God help us all
 
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Nadal is the only player EVER to have won 3 different titles 7 times. That's enough defending for him to be getting on with.
 
nadal_slam_king said:
Exactly. Doesn't make much sense, does it?
tennisreporters-tweet.jpg
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lol..isn't this the usual case?he almost all the time says he is injured whenever he loses..i m sure it wouldn't be any different if he bows out of wimbledon in the initial stages..he would probably say " i had a very long clay season no?i play mc barcelona madrid rome and rg no?my knees get exhausted no ,need rest no" :lol:
 
Evan77 said:
claygoof, I assume you are a NSK's sister. please do me a favor and do NOT put your butt picker and Borg in the same sentence (and no, I don't care how many RG butt picker won). and even your nick is so pretentious, oh 'clayqueen' (what are you queen of, really?) whatever, so ********.
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So who would you put in the same sentence as Borg? One clay slam wonder Fed who only won it because Nadal was injured?:???:
 
dont worry people if not Raonic someone else butt picker wont be here for long he has to go one day and when he does TENNIS can celebrate!!! :D
 
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