If Roddick/Hewitt couldn't beat prime Federer at AO/Wimbledon/USO, then why couldn't Murray?

RS

G.O.A.T.
yeah, Federer did use his ground game quite a bit in Wim 09 final.
Federer was making Djokovic's serve look like Sampras' in the 14 final (minus the 4th set). For all the talk about Federer not returning well in Wim 09 final, he returned worse in Wim 14 final.
Wim 09 final > Wim 14 final.
Disagree. He didn’t have to use as much in 2014 and Roddick allowed him to play in his comfort zone. Only for short rallies and points and Roddick is not exactly the hardest to hit winners past even Murray in 09 got 76 past him and he isn’t the best attacker. Fed did return better in 09 but both still mediocre.

14 final was way way better imo.
 

RS

G.O.A.T.
Well, jeez,guess what Federer was considerably worse off the return&ground in 2014. No wonder Djokovic managed to get that many winners.

The far faster pace is a load of bullcr*p. Both Federer and Roddick were hitting hard in Wim 09 final. Federer most certainly was hitting harder than in Wim 14 final.
Hit hard and powerful yes but at a slower pace yes. Fed of the 09 goes done to Djoko in 14 in the same fashion in my eyes.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Hit hard and powerful yes but at a slower pace yes. Fed of the 09 goes done to Djoko in 14 in the same fashion in my eyes.
LEL, slower pace. Fed hit slower in Wim 14 - thanks to new racquet and not being accustomed to it.
Fed of Wim 09 takes out Djoko of Wim 14.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Well below the Wim 14 final and Wim 18 SF and the Murray match in the SF was better as well imo.
LEL what?
what next ? Murray of Wim 09 semi also better than Federer of Wim 09 and Nadal of Wim 10 ?
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Disagree. He didn’t have to use as much in 2014 and Roddick allowed him to play in his comfort zone. Only for short rallies and points and Roddick is not exactly the hardest to hit winners past even Murray in 09 got 76 past him and he isn’t the best attacker. Fed did return better in 09 but both still mediocre.

14 final was way way better imo.
Fed hitting considerably less powerful in Wim 14 final. Of course rallies are going to be longer.
09 final was clearly better, its not even remotely close.

Nadal of Wim 18 was struggling to return djoko's serve. would struggle considerably more vs Roddick.
Djokovic wasn't returning that well either. Would struggle as well.

Wim 09 final > Wim 18 semi in terms of quality (even though Wim 18 semi had better/more entertaining rallies)
 

RS

G.O.A.T.
Fed hitting considerably less powerful in Wim 14 final. Of course rallies are going to be longer.
09 final was clearly better, its not even remotely close.

Nadal of Wim 18 was struggling to return djoko's serve. would struggle considerably more vs Roddick.
Djokovic wasn't returning that well either. Would struggle as well.

Wim 09 final > Wim 18 semi in terms of quality (even though Wim 18 semi had better/more entertaining rallies)
Disagree. Still rate the late two a couple levels above. I don’t believe it had to do with power even in other Federer - Djoko matches the play of the ground was better. Fed hitting more powerful vs Djokovic playing like that just leads to more errors and Fed is a goner if he plays like that.

Hewitt is a weaker version of Wim 18 SF Nadal so he finishes off what Murray and Hewitt started. Nadal would have more confidence in returning the Roddick serve Djoko got into his head off clay at that point.
 
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RS

G.O.A.T.
LEL what?
what next ? Murray of Wim 09 semi also better than Federer of Wim 09 and Nadal of Wim 10 ?
The Murray match was a better match imo. I wouldn’t say Murray beats those two they have his number on grass but gave that Roddick hell though so he wasn’t a mug.
 

RS

G.O.A.T.
LEL, slower pace. Fed hit slower in Wim 14 - thanks to new racquet and not being accustomed to it.
Fed of Wim 09 takes out Djoko of Wim 14.
Djoko in 5 is how I see it but fine. I think Fed starts to slip in 5th like he has done vs Djoko in the past.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
The Murray match was a better match imo. I wouldn’t say Murray beats those two they have his number on grass but gave that Roddick hell though so he wasn’t a mug.
Like I said, LEL.
You don't understand the importance of serve enough. Mainly focus on ground game/rallies.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Disagree. Still rate the late two a couple levels above. I don’t believe it had to do with power even in other Federer - Djoko matches the play of the ground was better. Fed hitting more powerful vs Djokovic playing like that just leads to more errors and Fed is a goner if he plays like that.
bullsh*t. Federer was hitting just fine vs Djoko of Wim 12 semi.
He was hitting better in Wim 15 final as well compared to Wim 14 final - first 2 sets

Hewitt is a weaker version of Wim 18 SF Nadal so he finishes off what Murray and Hewitt started. Nadal would have more confidence in returning the Roddick serve Djoko got into his head off clay at that point.
hewitt still returned better. In any case, Roddick played better in the final than the QF.
Djokovic was ranked in the 20s and seeded #12 in Wim 18. Nadal didn't show any signs of Djokovic getting into his head in that match. Just didn't return that well - returning obviously not as good as it was at his prime.
 
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RS

G.O.A.T.
bullsh*t. Federer was hitting just fine vs Djoko of Wim 12 semi.
He was hitting better in Wim 15 final as well compared to Wim 14 final - first 2 sets
hewitt still returned better. In any case, Roddick played better in the final than the QF.
Djokovic was ranked in the 20s and seeded #12 in Wim 18. Nadal didn't show any signs of Djokovic getting into his head in that match. Just didn't return that well - returning obviously not as good as it was at his prime.
[/QUOTE]
The 2015 match was even better. In 2012 Djokovic was average.

Nadal would have more trouble with the serve but he was million miles better than 2009 Hewitt and Murray. Roddick wouldn’t cope from the ground or in those rallies.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
The 2015 match was even better. In 2012 Djokovic was average.
Djokovic wasn't given too much rhythm by Federer in that Wim 12 semi. Like I said, Fed had no problem hitting with Djoko there.

Nadal would have more trouble with the serve but he was million miles better than 2009 Hewitt and Murray. Roddick wouldn’t cope from the ground or in those rallies.
nadal was better from the ground, but nothing like million times better. Roddick did enough to be able to break Nadal from the ground in Dubai 08 and Miami 10 (from 2nd set onwards) anyways. He has to pick his spots to break by clustering return points well. Doesn't have to be consistently great from the baseline.
 
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RS

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic wasn't given too much rhythm by Federer in that Wim 12 semi. Like I said, he had no problem hitting with him there.



nadal was better from the ground, but nothing like million times better. Roddick did enough to be able to break Nadal from the ground in Dubai 08 and Miami 10 (from 2nd set onwards) anyways. He has to pick his spots to break by clustering return points well. Doesn't have to be consistently great from the baseline.
Roddick has done well vs Rafa off clay tbh in real life tennis and not just time travel so true.

Djokovic pre Becker was inconsistent in the late stages apart from 11 of grass. smashed by 14/15 Fed. Even 2019 Djokovic played better.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Roddick has done well vs Rafa off clay tbh in real life tennis and not just time travel so true.
exactly

Djokovic pre Becker was inconsistent in the late stages apart from 11 of grass. smashed by 14/15 Fed. Even 2019 Djokovic played better.
not really. Djokovic did more than fine in QF of Wim 12. Was in excellent form in Wim 12 before meeting Fed who stifled him.
In Wim 13, Djoko beat Berdych in straight sets in QF and staved off a hot delpo in the semi. only final was bad - in significant part due to long semi.

Wim 12 djokovic > wim 19 djokovic, including the respective matches.
 

RS

G.O.A.T.
you brought it upon yourself ;)
Djokovic fans do not mind it as much.

exactly



not really. Djokovic did more than fine in QF of Wim 12. Was in excellent form in Wim 12 before meeting Fed who stifled him.
In Wim 13, Djoko beat Berdych in straight sets in QF and staved off a hot delpo in the semi. only final was bad - in significant part due to long semi.

Wim 12 djokovic > wim 19 djokovic, including the respective matches.
Shame we cannot say the same about Roddick vs 2 others and not Rafa ;)

Yes Djokovic was very good in Wim 12/13 before Djokovic/Murray. His 2013 run was one of his best before the final he missed his chance of winning in 2013 by taking 5 to finish Del Potro i think.
 
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ElisRF

Professional
It is hard to see Murray besting a peak Federer in slams but i guess the best chances Murray has is that AO 12 - WI 13 stretch as that was the best slam tennis Murray played on grass and HC in his career.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
It is hard to see Murray besting a peak Federer in slams but i guess the best chances Murray has is that AO 12 - WI 13 stretch as that was the best slam tennis Murray played on grass and HC in his career.
Depends which version of Fed that alligns with.

Having said that, Murray barely beat Fed at AO 2013 and any Fed in his prime was better than that.
 
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