If there was a Masters Series Tournament played on grass

JoshDragon

Hall of Fame
Too bad the ATP doesn't hold any of their Masters series tournaments on grass. They could use a few more weeks in between the French and Wimbledon. That would give the players more time to adapt to the slippery, fast surface.

If you were able to pick a country to hold a grass court Masters Series tournament. Where would it be and when would you have it?

I would pick Sweden. It's relatively close to England, making it a short plane trip over to play in Wimbledon and I would probably host it two weeks before Wimbledon starts. Could be a great grass court warm up.
 

Xemi666

Professional
I think there should be 3 on clay, 3 on grass and 3 on hardcourts, or at least 2 on grass and 4 on hardcourts, don't get why the ATP has to be dominated by HCs.
 
D

Deleted member 21996

Guest
Oh Josh....

two weeks before SW19?

Sweden?

no wonder you make threads about GoKu serves and Sailor moon forehands...
 

Speranza

Hall of Fame
Holmes: Have been thinking about this myself recently, although Sweden wouldn't have been my first thought as a location. If you think the British summer is unpredictable with rain, I'd hazard a guess that Sweden's would be slightly more.

Watson: Yes, a Masters event on grass is a great idea. No doubt it has been talked about before here. The fact that there are numerous for clay and hard court, and none for grass... Well, it certainly may have made a certain head to head more competitive ;)
 

JoshDragon

Hall of Fame
I think there should be 3 on clay, 3 on grass and 3 on hardcourts, or at least 2 on grass and 4 on hardcourts, don't get why the ATP has to be dominated by HCs.

3 on grass might be difficult. They're very difficult to maintain and aren't viable in certain climates. But I would like to see more grass court tournaments.:)
 

malakas

Banned
talked about here before is an understatement.

EVERY godamn year we have the same threads coming up.
Wait to see next : why Wimby makes players wear white?
 

Speranza

Hall of Fame
talked about here before is an understatement.

EVERY godamn year we have the same threads coming up.
Wait to see next : why Wimby makes players wear white?

Holmes: Really? Well I never..... ;)

Watson: Holmes, why do they make you wear wh-

Holmes: You really ought to catch on to my sarcasm sooner Watson.
 
It would be lovely to have more grass action on the tour. I just don't know what's the whole thing about inserting new tournaments in the calendar. Who decides it?...

Don't these guys have funds and stuff?...Only guys like Tiriac can make things happen?
 

mr_eko

Professional
IF they started Indian Wells and Miami earlier in the year and then pushed up the clay tournaments a week or two then there might be more space for an extra grass masters tournament before Wimbledon. But that would never happen.

Or they could just make the Queens club tournament a Master Series Event but that wouldn't make sense.

The only time I could see a Master Series on grass is after Wimbledon. Since Wimbledon ends like 2nd week of July and the Rogers Cup begins what 2nd week of August, there is space their for a grass masters which could take place in the U.S since they have grass courts in great condition at that time. But that would mean that the U.S open series would get overshadowed but most top players don't play those events besides Roddick and Del Potro.
 

Centered

Hall of Fame
talked about here before is an understatement.

EVERY godamn year we have the same threads coming up.
Probably because every year the problem still hasn't been dealt with.

It's crazy that there isn't even one Masters event on grass in my opinion.

As for the location, what about New Zealand?
 

Donny0627

Professional
I think there should be 3 on clay, 3 on grass and 3 on hardcourts, or at least 2 on grass and 4 on hardcourts, don't get why the ATP has to be dominated by HCs.

because hard caourts are considered the most even(fair for all) playing surface...
 
NO! NO! NO!

I hate grass!!! So much!!! It's all serve!
Doesn't help that like 1/5 of the players I like can play on grass. Melzer, Hewitt, Ferrero (ha ****ing ha)

With Kolya it's like, "See you in Hamburg"
 

Donny0627

Professional
I think that the number of grass masters and clay masters should be equal.

Hard court tournaments it really dosnt matter because it is halfway between the two. There can b as many or as little HC tourneys it rilly doesnt matter
 

JeMar

Legend
NO! NO! NO!

I hate grass!!! So much!!! It's all serve!
Doesn't help that like 1/5 of the players I like can play on grass. Melzer, Hewitt, Ferrero (ha ****ing ha)

With Kolya it's like, "See you in Hamburg"

I'll have you know that all those players, except for Melzer, have gotten to at least the quarters of Wimbly.

Oh, and Davy.
 

egn

Hall of Fame
Wait...and ****ing clay is even and fair for all?:???:

According to the latest conspiracy theories the French Open is just a hardcourt painted red with some dirt sprinkled on it >.< So I guess that "makes it fair".

On topic there should be at least one on grass and hell one on carpet.

Honestly if it went like this

2 slow hardcourt
3 clay
1 grass
2 hardcourt
1 indoor
1 carpet

And you only had to play 7 of the 10 nobody would complain and everyone would be happy. Also bring back the best of 5 finals as well, when it used to make things more challenging. Oh screw Shanghai, I don't even get why we have a medium speed hardcourt tournament in the fall indoor season its a joke. Shanghai plays just like Montreal and is just another DecoTurf tournament.
 

Fee

Legend
The reason there is no Masters on grass is because the ATP does not dictate their own schedule. All of the power in tennis is with the Grand Slams and when Wimbledon says 'we're not starting later' and Roland Garros says 'we're not starting earlier' and the AO says 'we will stay right where we are before the kids go back to school' and the USO says' are you HIGH, we make all of our money over labor day weekend' then all the ATP can do is work around those events and schedule their tournaments in between.

So, if you want a grass court Masters, write to W and RG and tell them to move their events. Good luck with that.
 

Centered

Hall of Fame
The reason there is no Masters on grass is because the ATP does not dictate their own schedule. All of the power in tennis is with the Grand Slams and when Wimbledon says 'we're not starting later' and Roland Garros says 'we're not starting earlier' and the AO says 'we will stay right where we are before the kids go back to school' and the USO says' are you HIGH, we make all of our money over labor day weekend' then all the ATP can do is work around those events and schedule their tournaments in between.

So, if you want a grass court Masters, write to W and RG and tell them to move their events. Good luck with that.
The US Open used to be on grass.
The Australian Open used to be on grass.
Lots of things used to be on grass, regardless of the schedule.
 

aceX

Hall of Fame
The true fans want more grass, but people will still flock even if it's hard court.

Hard court = cheaper and easier, so hard court it is.
 
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aceX

Hall of Fame
Australian Open
3 Clay Court Masters (Monte Carlo, Rome, Madrid)
French Open
3 Grass Court Masters (Halle, Queens, ?)
Wimbledon
3 Hard Court Masters (Miami, Cincy, Rogers Cup)
US Open
 

Fee

Legend
The US Open used to be on grass.
The Australian Open used to be on grass.
Lots of things used to be on grass, regardless of the schedule.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. What's your point? We're talking about the game and the schedule now.
 

egn

Hall of Fame
Australian Open
3 Clay Court Masters (Monte Carlo, Rome, Madrid)
French Open
3 Grass Court Masters (Halle, Queens, ?)
Wimbledon
3 Hard Court Masters (Miami, Cincy, Rogers Cup)
US Open

Ideal world yes, weather permitting world... >.< ehh? When are we playing for example Miami..are we moving say French Open back and then too when? May is probably the best month for the French Open. April it is still a bit too cold and we don't want to move it further back into June. I think 3 grass court masters is too much...1 would be enough possibly 2. However if say we push wimbledon back then Miami is almost out of the picture. They all ready complain about Australian summers well Miami summers are crazy. It can be almost 32-33 Celsius 90+ Fahrenheit every single day for the two weeks. Same goes for July and September. The reason Miami is held in March or April is the weather is more bearable in terms of playing tennis.

There is no point in redoing the schedule if you are going to make players play in awful conditions..So you can move the French up maybe 2-3 weeks and possibly move wimby back a week. However then 3 hardcourt master series with optimal rest that is a week after wimby and a week between each master series is pushing the US Open back two weeks, because you can't simply just have master series. What do the lower ranked players get to play points?

I think the major problem is the weight the master series have been given, if they were not all mandatory and players had wiggle room you would see more creative scheduling from players which would allow them the optimal time to be ready for events. You would see things more like Fed in his prime or the mid 90s were a player plays only 4 or 5 master series and isn't worried about some silly master series records. I mean whats next an international series 500 record and then a 250 record??
 
The reason there is no Masters on grass is because the ATP does not dictate their own schedule. All of the power in tennis is with the Grand Slams and when Wimbledon says 'we're not starting later' and Roland Garros says 'we're not starting earlier' and the AO says 'we will stay right where we are before the kids go back to school' and the USO says' are you HIGH, we make all of our money over labor day weekend' then all the ATP can do is work around those events and schedule their tournaments in between.

So, if you want a grass court Masters, write to W and RG and tell them to move their events. Good luck with that.

You do know that July is basically a free month for top tennis players right?

Finding a spot in the calendar is the last of the problems.
 

egn

Hall of Fame
You do know that July is basically a free month for top tennis players right?

Finding a spot in the calendar is the last of the problems.

Biggest question is would any of the pro players want to play a grass court master series after wimbledon? I would love to see it and most of us would and I am sure a handful of pros would love to as well however after playing non stop tennis since late March for most pros the question is are any going to actually want to play it? If it is added here I think it should be a non mandatory master series.
 

Fee

Legend
You do know that July is basically a free month for top tennis players right?

Yes, except for that pesky Davis Cup thing.

Finding a spot in the calendar is the last of the problems.

Actually, no its not.

What would you suggest? A grass court masters in July, after the Slam on that surface has already happened? As egn said, would the players go along with it? I think not, and they have a good amount of influence over it. They are the ones who prefer to play their tennis in 'seasons' by surface. I don't see a grass court masters happening unless there's a schedule change and it can happen before Wimbledon.
 
Biggest question is would any of the pro players want to play a grass court master series after wimbledon? I would love to see it and most of us would and I am sure a handful of pros would love to as well however after playing non stop tennis since late March for most pros the question is are any going to actually want to play it? If it is added here I think it should be a non mandatory master series.

Yes, except for that pesky Davis Cup thing.



Actually, no its not.

What would you suggest? A grass court masters in July, after the Slam on that surface has already happened? As egn said, would the players go along with it? I think not, and they have a good amount of influence over it. They are the ones who prefer to play their tennis in 'seasons' by surface. I don't see a grass court masters happening unless there's a schedule change and it can happen before Wimbledon.


Are you guys familiar with the cash prizes for Masters Series events? and the number of ranking points awarded?... I think players, could accommodate to the uncomfortable task of playing tennis for that, even if it's after Wimbledon.
 

rocket

Hall of Fame
Biggest question is would any of the pro players want to play a grass court master series after wimbledon? I would love to see it and most of us would and I am sure a handful of pros would love to as well however after playing non stop tennis since late March for most pros the question is are any going to actually want to play it? If it is added here I think it should be a non mandatory master series.

sure, why not? Indian Wells & Miami happen after AO.
 

Fee

Legend
Are you guys familiar with the cash prizes for Masters Series events? and the number of ranking points awarded?... I think players, could accommodate to the uncomfortable task of playing tennis for that, even if it's after Wimbledon.

Yes I'm very aware of how the ATP is run. Are you familiar with the fact that the players are the ones who got the exemption for top players that allows them to skip one of the mandatory Masters without penalty? The number of players that don't go to Monte Carlo now that its not mandatory (even though it offers those same points and prize money)? They are not cash and points hungry mercenaries, they still prefer to have some amount of choice and control over their schedules.

The players will not agree to adding another mandatory Masters event to the schedule, so one of the existing Masters will have to be bought and moved (the ATP will not do that again unless someone volunteers, after the very expensive Hamburg lawsuit).

Let's pretend that happens, and a masters event becomes available... after Wimbledon? Nah, no player will agree to play a Mandatory event right after a slam, so there will need to be a week in between (perhaps Newport and something else on grass, but in what country?), so that puts a Masters in the 3rd week of July. That might work if either Cincy or Canada happens to be the one who gives up their event to make room on the summer calendar, so that there can be two weeks of hardcourt warmups before the next Masters event. It will of course completely screw those clay court events in Europe after Wimbledon (which I've never really understood anyway, but I hear they are popular). Davis Cup might also have to be moved, since they usually play a quarter final week in July somewhere (right after W this year).

I just don't see it happening like that, I honestly do not believe the players will go along with it.
 
T

TennisandMusic

Guest
Yes, except for that pesky Davis Cup thing.



Actually, no its not.

What would you suggest? A grass court masters in July, after the Slam on that surface has already happened? As egn said, would the players go along with it? I think not, and they have a good amount of influence over it. They are the ones who prefer to play their tennis in 'seasons' by surface. I don't see a grass court masters happening unless there's a schedule change and it can happen before Wimbledon.

Then how do you explain IW and Miami after the AO? The surest way to prevent something from happening is to think of every excuse for why it can't happen.
 

jackson vile

G.O.A.T.
Too bad the ATP doesn't hold any of their Masters series tournaments on grass. They could use a few more weeks in between the French and Wimbledon. That would give the players more time to adapt to the slippery, fast surface.

If you were able to pick a country to hold a grass court Masters Series tournament. Where would it be and when would you have it?

I would pick Sweden. It's relatively close to England, making it a short plane trip over to play in Wimbledon and I would probably host it two weeks before Wimbledon starts. Could be a great grass court warm up.

How about USA Washington or Oregon? They need to shorten the hard court season since it has 2 parts in 1 season, what is that crap?
 
Yes I'm very aware of how the ATP is run. Are you familiar with the fact that the players are the ones who got the exemption for top players that allows them to skip one of the mandatory Masters without penalty? The number of players that don't go to Monte Carlo now that its not mandatory (even though it offers those same points and prize money)? They are not cash and points hungry mercenaries, they still prefer to have some amount of choice and control over their schedules.

The players will not agree to adding another mandatory Masters event to the schedule, so one of the existing Masters will have to be bought and moved (the ATP will not do that again unless someone volunteers, after the very expensive Hamburg lawsuit).

Let's pretend that happens, and a masters event becomes available... after Wimbledon? Nah, no player will agree to play a Mandatory event right after a slam, so there will need to be a week in between (perhaps Newport and something else on grass, but in what country?), so that puts a Masters in the 3rd week of July. That might work if either Cincy or Canada happens to be the one who gives up their event to make room on the summer calendar, so that there can be two weeks of hardcourt warmups before the next Masters event. It will of course completely screw those clay court events in Europe after Wimbledon (which I've never really understood anyway, but I hear they are popular). Davis Cup might also have to be moved, since they usually play a quarter final week in July somewhere (right after W this year).

I just don't see it happening like that, I honestly do not believe the players will go along with it.

In all of this post you honestly didn't give anything reasonable to your cause, sorry to say.

Let's take another approach. Besides Federer, who in the last years has routinely skipped some Masters Series events. (And I find it hilariously funny how in all of those cases it was one on clay, and the one in which Nadal has been the most dominant, and the other one in the Indoor season, where Federer has pretty much sucked majorly, as of late), who do you think will skip it?

Nadal, the guy that prays he's not tired in order to play 500's?
Djokovic?
Murray?...

Who?...give me names and tie them with precedents that might have lead to your statement earlier.


As for the whole calendar thing. I repeat, THE WHOLE month of July is free. There are a bazillion 250's that are mostly played by journeymen and players that don't like to get a vacation and there's the infamous Hamburg 500, which is a downgraded past-great tournament that no one really cares about anymore. It is popular, in Germany that is, but every bigger tennis tournament is big in Germany, so that's not a criteria for anything.

Davis Cup?...do we really need to get started on this one?...Davis Cup, seriously?...

Here's how I could sum up this:

-would the calendar benefit from a new big tournament on grass?...yes, surface-wise, and it would also make the calendar look a bit all-round for christ sakes...not a Nadal season + hard courts type a thing.
-would players like it?...oh hell yes, believe me, because grass is different compared to any of the other surfaces so it can bring some "specialists" at the forefront, plus the surface is easy on the joints.
-would the ATP benefit from it?....I think so, purely from the fact that it's a Masters, and the first and only Masters on grass.
-the costs of making this happen, surface maintenance etc could be easily balanced out by profit.
 

Fee

Legend
Then how do you explain IW and Miami after the AO? The surest way to prevent something from happening is to think of every excuse for why it can't happen.

IW and Miami have 3 weeks of hardcourt tournaments leading into them, its a 'season'.


These aren't my reasons, they are the ATP's. Personally, I would love to see the grass court season extended and a Masters Series added, but I've seen this same discussion every year since about 2004.
 

canuckfan

Semi-Pro
There are more than 5000 pts available on clay in the atp schedule. Depending on how many smaller tournaments a player is willing to play, that number could be 5500-6000.

On grass there is a maximum of 2750 pts, including the rarely played grass tourney in newport after wimbledon.

No wonder Nadal is able to track down fed in the rankings, and even then he needed Fed to flame out of several tourneys in the early rounds. Nadal has about 2500-3000 MORE pts annually available on his favorite surface compared to Fed, simply because grass is harder to maintain and thus less widespread on tour.
 

jackson vile

G.O.A.T.
There are more than 5000 pts available on clay in the atp schedule. Depending on how many smaller tournaments a player is willing to play, that number could be 5500-6000.

On grass there is a maximum of 2750 pts, including the rarely played grass tourney in newport after wimbledon.

No wonder Nadal is able to track down fed in the rankings, and even then he needed Fed to flame out of several tourneys in the early rounds. Nadal has about 2500-3000 MORE pts annually available on his favorite surface compared to Fed, simply because grass is harder to maintain and thus less widespread on tour.

Really... Really...

You left out the HardCourt points, how much is that again... How many Masters... How many slams...

Are you really this stupid???:confused:
 

Rhino

Legend
Really... Really...

You left out the HardCourt points, how much is that again... How many Masters... How many slams...

Are you really this stupid???:confused:

It's not stupid actually because there as so many hardcourt specialists that neither Fed or Nadal are a lock for all those HC points, Masters, etc. Look how many different HC Masters winners there are... Murray, Ljubicic, Roddick, Djokovic, Federer, Davydenko, etc.

However Nadal is a virtual lock for the clay points, and Federer a virtual lock for the grass points (having lost only one match on grass since 2002).

That is why the comparison is valid.
 

canuckfan

Semi-Pro
It's not stupid actually because there as so many hardcourt specialists that neither Fed or Nadal are a lock for all those HC points, Masters, etc. Look how many different HC Masters winners there are... Murray, Ljubicic, Roddick, Djokovic, Federer, Davydenko, etc.

However Nadal is a virtual lock for the clay points, and Federer a virtual lock for the grass points (having lost only one match on grass since 2002).

That is why the comparison is valid.

Rhino, thank you for explaining that for jackson. Sadly, the logical nature of your post makes it unlikely that readers like him will understand.
 
The reason there is no Masters on grass is because the ATP does not dictate their own schedule. All of the power in tennis is with the Grand Slams and when Wimbledon says 'we're not starting later' and Roland Garros says 'we're not starting earlier' and the AO says 'we will stay right where we are before the kids go back to school' and the USO says' are you HIGH, we make all of our money over labor day weekend' then all the ATP can do is work around those events and schedule their tournaments in between.

So, if you want a grass court Masters, write to W and RG and tell them to move their events. Good luck with that.

I just realized WTA has a Premier on grass next week in Eastbourne, and usually gets pretty good turnout from top players over the years. I know comparing ATP to WTA is ALWAYS tricky around here, but if WTA can have a Premier non mandatory on grass I don't see why the ATP can't do the same in Queens or Halle or Eastbourne even instead of keeping Monte Carlo a 1000 non mandatory. At the very least one or two of these events should be 500. That in itself would require no scheduling movements. Let's not make the ATP out to be victim in this is my point. If they want Queens and Halle to have that distinction, they can make it so.
 
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