If they push Wimbledon back a week...

Agent Orynge

Professional
...to widen the gap between it and the French, will that favor more defensive / less powerful players, since the grass will already be worn by the time the tournament begins? It would only be fair, considering what happened to Nadal this year. Discuss.
 
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Irony Zealot

New User
Even if it would favor more defensive/less powerful players i.e. Nadal, it wouldn't favor the aggressive/more powerful players. Wimbledon is where the latter type of players thrive (supposedly), and taking that away from them means ALL FOUR SLAMS would favor the former.

So no, it wouldn't be fair.
 

Agent Orynge

Professional
Well, there's all that sarcasm floating around about 'green clay,' but you have to admit that waiting an extra week to let the grass wear down would give Nadal a decided advantage. Then you could call it 'brown clay,' I guess.
 

CDNguy87

Hall of Fame
Wait what? If they push it back a week why would the grass wear down, nobody would be playing on it...
This. The grass gets worn down in the 1st week because of the players playing on it, not because of the time of year. Unless Wimbledon is being extended to a 3-week tournament, the premise of this thread makes absolutely no sense. The grass isn't going to magically die because the tournament will start and finish one week later.
 

Agent Orynge

Professional
This. The grass gets worn down in the 1st week because of the players playing on it, not because of the time of year. Unless Wimbledon is being extended to a 3-week tournament, the premise of this thread makes absolutely no sense. The grass isn't going to magically die because the tournament will start and finish one week later.
I honestly haven't seen any studies that might confirm this, and I'd be dubious if I saw one anyways. I think you're missing my point. What do you think about Nadal's odds if the grass is already worn down at the start of the first round? It really couldn't hurt to wait a week.
 

papertank

Hall of Fame
This. The grass gets worn down in the 1st week because of the players playing on it, not because of the time of year. Unless Wimbledon is being extended to a 3-week tournament, the premise of this thread makes absolutely no sense. The grass isn't going to magically die because the tournament will start and finish one week later.
I'm really surprised no one else has called the thread starter out on this...I'm pretty sure the greatest tennis tournament in the world is going to have fresh grass to play on when the tournament starts no matter when it starts.
 

Agent Orynge

Professional
I'm really surprised no one else has called the thread starter out on this...I'm pretty sure the greatest tennis tournament in the world is going to have fresh grass to play on when the tournament starts no matter when it starts.
You're clearly distracted by trivialities. What do you think about the question I proposed?
 

TopFH

Hall of Fame
...to widen the gap between it and the French, will that favor more defensive / less powerful players, since the grass will already be worn by the time the tournament begins? It would only be fair, considering what happened to Nadal this year. Discuss.
Why should we only make it fair for Nadal?
 

Justin-JP

Rookie
Putting the GS back a week or even a month, is not going to favour a defensive style, simply as the grass would not be worn? Why would you think it would be...:confused:
 

papertank

Hall of Fame
You're clearly distracted by trivialities. What do you think about the question I proposed?
The question is moot because the grass is going to be fresh at the start no matter when it happens, so it will play the same. If the grass was worn at the start of course it would favor more defensive players because it would play slower, but it's pointless to discuss because that won't happen.
 

Agent Orynge

Professional
Why should we only make it fair for Nadal?
I was just using him as a hypothetical, since his loss on a pristine grass court at Wimbledon, just a few weeks after his FO victory, is still fresh in our minds. You're welcome to substitute my proposition for whatever player you like.
 

Agent Orynge

Professional
The question is moot because the grass is going to be fresh at the start no matter when it happens, so it will play the same. If the grass was worn at the start of course it would favor more defensive players because it would play slower, but it's pointless to discuss because that won't happen.
Yeah, but I'm talking about the consequences of delaying Wimbledon a week. What do you think?
 

Satch

Hall of Fame
...to widen the gap between it and the French, will that favor more defensive / less powerful players, since the grass will already be worn by the time the tournament begins? It would only be fair, considering what happened to Nadal this year. Discuss.
problem solved.. remove all the grass and let the players play in a mud, so rafa has better chances to win
 

Agent Orynge

Professional
I think someone's just talking themselves out of a very badly (incorrect) question.
Have you seen the way the courts look in the second week? There's no way that pushing Wimbledon back wouldn't affect the speed of the surface. I'm just asking how fair that would be to the players as a whole.
 
Have you seen the way the courts look in the second week? There's no way that pushing Wimbledon back wouldn't affect the speed of the surface. I'm just asking how fair that would be to the players as a whole.
Pushing Wimbledon back wouldn't affect the speed of the surface.

The grass only gets worn down because of players playing on it. Pushing the tournament back a week doesn't mean the grass magically dies. Thus, since the grass will appear exactly as it did if Wimbledon were to start at its normal time a week earlier, it would be fair to all players. Everyone gets an extra week's rest and an extra week's practice in grass.

The only thing that would affect surface speed would be the weather, but that's already an uncontrolled variable outside of Center Court that has existed at Wimbledon forever and has always been random/unfair to many styles of players.
 

Hood_Man

Legend
Have you seen the way the courts look in the second week? There's no way that pushing Wimbledon back wouldn't affect the speed of the surface. I'm just asking how fair that would be to the players as a whole.
The quality of the grass in the second week is a direct result of it being played on in the first week. That's it.
 

kishnabe

Talk Tennis Guru
I believe that it would favour everyone. It would give them a chance to recuperate better.....and actually perform to their best.

It a big ask for the guys who reach the French Open final....and then at least 2-3 weeks later be ready for the next major.
 

Agent Orynge

Professional
I believe that it would favour everyone. It would give them a chance to recuperate better.....and actually perform to their best.

It a big ask for the guys who reach the French Open final....and then at least 2-3 weeks later be ready for the next major.
Especially while the grass is so fresh and fast. It's almost too much of a disparity.
 
If the "shoulds" matter ..... Wimbledon should be played in two weeks ..... separated by a month. If Wimbledon staff can grow a new grass for the Olympics in a month, then they can do it every year. Then we will have proper grass surface throughout the entire tournament.

And a grass Masters 500/1000 could be thrown in between, to keep the things with the surface going.
 

Agent Orynge

Professional
If the "shoulds" matter ..... Wimbledon should be played in two weeks ..... separated by a month. If Wimbledon staff can grow a new grass for the Olympics in a month, then they can do it every year. Then we will have proper grass surface throughout the entire tournament.

And a grass Masters 500/1000 could be thrown in between, to keep the things with the surface going.
While I take your point, it would completely undermine the endurance aspect of playing two weeks of intensive tennis. If you're going to make it soft on the players, why consider stretching the break between the FO and Wimbledon at all? No, clearly the best option is to push it back a week, but the ramifications of starting round 1 on a worn grass court is clearly beyond all our grasps.
 
While I take your point, it would completely undermine the endurance aspect of playing two weeks of intensive tennis. If you're going to make it soft on the players, why consider stretching the break between the FO and Wimbledon at all?
Well, the break between FO and SW19 means that the players are having it soft (in comparison with the scenario, where both tournaments are played back to back).

The endurance aspect may not be undermined, because the top dogs will have to peak for two separate weeks, which is much harder to achieve, when those two weeks are close enough (and a month pause is tricky in that regard).
 

okdude1992

Hall of Fame
Wait what? If they push it back a week why would the grass wear down, nobody would be playing on it...
yea my reaction was also "wait, what??!"
should thing things through before making a thread, op (not sure if trolling)
moving wimbledon back a week would be good so a grass masters can be added and players have a little extra time coming off the french
 
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woodrow1029

Hall of Fame
I honestly haven't seen any studies that might confirm this, and I'd be dubious if I saw one anyways. I think you're missing my point. What do you think about Nadal's odds if the grass is already worn down at the start of the first round? It really couldn't hurt to wait a week.
Are you serious? Or are you just trying to look like you don't know what you are talking about?
 

woodrow1029

Hall of Fame
...to widen the gap between it and the French, will that favor more defensive / less powerful players, since the grass will already be worn by the time the tournament begins? It would only be fair, considering what happened to Nadal this year. Discuss.
Why would anyone want to look ignorant? I think I've asked some perfectly valid questions, what's your take?
How is the bolded part a valid question? Why would the grass already be worn by the time the tournament begins?
 

Agent Orynge

Professional
That's an excellent question, but I'm not really familiar with the science of tennis, even if I could be lead to believe in such things.
 

Agent Orynge

Professional
I'm really surprised that nobody's been able to come up with a good answer for this. With all the tennis knowledge floating around the boards I thought we could put something together.
 
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