If two racquets have the same swing weight...

[Moveforwardalways]

will the racquet with the heavier static weight have more power? Or will the equal swing weights negate the difference in static weight? Presumably they will each feel just as heavy to the player during a swing, but will the pop on the ball be more from the higher static weight?

 

[AMGF]

I'd say yes up to a point.

When I leaded my frame to achieve a higher mgr/i ratio, I added about 24g without increasing SW.

I had more power, but slower rhs. In the end, my serve suffered because I couldn't get the same rhs (that wasn't a problem for forehand/backhand). It was better on volleys though and had better plow through.

I bet there is a point where more static weight would slow down your swing so much it would hurt overall ball speed.

So yes better power. But too much will hurt ultimately.

 

[zalive]

Yes.

It's because of realistic swing situation, which is closer to double pendulum model (two axis of rotation), so there is importance also of SW from the shoulder axis of rotation point. More static mass will eventually show as a higher SW from the shoulder axis of rotation.

You can easily confirm this by adding some significant mass to the handle of your racket (say, 5-10g). While standard (wrist) SW remains almost the same, you can see that you will generate some more power on your shots than before adding mass to the handle.

But if you compare different rackets or different setups, there is also COR (coefficient of restitution) of each racket, so if the two rackets have different COR then it can be more or less decisive for bigger pop. And COR depends on many things...

 

[Irvin]

The shortest one (see AMAZING RESULTS in http://www.tennisindustrymag.com/articles/2006/02/raw_racquet_power.html.) Assuming that all rackets are the same length it would depend on the head size, strings, tension, and other boring stuff.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

The shortest one (see AMAZING RESULTS in http://www.tennisindustrymag.com/articles/2006/02/raw_racquet_power.html.) Assuming that all rackets are the same length it would depend on the head size, strings, tension, and other boring stuff.

Very interesting. To take a real life example, compare the Pure Aero and Pure Aero Tour. Essentially identical swing weight, but the tour version has a higher static weight and is more head light. According to this data, a player would not get any more power out of the PAT even though it is heavier? Am I interpreting that correctly?

 

[AMGF]

The shortest one (see AMAZING RESULTS in http://www.tennisindustrymag.com/articles/2006/02/raw_racquet_power.html.) Assuming that all rackets are the same length it would depend on the head size, strings, tension, and other boring stuff.

The only problem is that experiment is for a stationnary racquet. I don't believe for a second that a shorter swung frame has more power than a longer swung frame because the longer frame will hit the ball at a higher velocity. But yes of course, for equal sw, the shorter frame will need more weight in the head hence the higher RP. Ultimately if these was accurate for swung frames, pros would play with shorter (junior) frames, not longer ones, imho.

Players actually choke down their frames on attack ground stroke for more power, not choke up. I'd like if TWU would test the different lenght frames like they did for SW.

 

[Irvin]

@AMGF for a shorter frame to have the same SW as a longer racket it must be more polarized which puts more weight in the ends of the racket. For the SW to be as high as a longer racket the end with the highest weight must be the head of the racket. Therefore a shorter racket will have more weight behind the ball at the contact point. I THINK ( an assumption on my part) a player will swing a shorter racket a little faster so the the speed of the head will be the same.

But you bring up a great point, if all the rackets were stationary how can SW and racket length make any difference at all? Clearly from the results the higher the SW or the shorter the length the greater the rebound power. Hummmmm? Very interesting indeed.

 

[zalive]

Racket cannot stay stationary after hitting the ball. It may be stationary prior to impact, but it doesn't remain stationary during the impact.

Stationary racket will receive ball's moment, react to it with its own moment of inertia (edit: for this situation recoil weigth is relevant, not SW!) and return back part of received energy to the ball.

Since racket is held by the handle during the impact, same rotational physical laws apply (meaning SW stays significant the same way as it is significant when racket is swung).

 

[fuzz nation]

will the racquet with the heavier static weight have more power? Or will the equal swing weights negate the difference in static weight? Presumably they will each feel just as heavy to the player during a swing, but will the pop on the ball be more from the higher static weight?

As a physics flunkie, my input here is more anecdotal than based in science... reality vs. MY reality, but I'll offer some ideas.

First off, I don't pay attention to swing weights anymore, just because they seem to tell me next to nothing about a racquet. Actually, in another current thread, our pal Irvin pointed out maybe at least a half-dozen variables that can make two racquets having the exact same swing weights feel and perform much differently in action on the courts.

I've become familiar with what I generally prefer in a racquet in terms of its static weight, balance, and flex. While some things like a frame's degree of polarization aren't readily reflected in these specs, I can much more easily predict how a racquet will perform for me when I know these three numbers. Compared with swing weight as a reference, knowing these specs helps me avoid lots of confusion.

Among the racquets in my "collection" that I use semi-regularly on the courts, these may vary in weight from around 12.5-13.0 oz., but they also share similar balance at about 10 pts. HL - that feels most familiar and comfortable for me in this weight range. When I want to hit with the most power (and handle power from an opponent more effectively), I consistently get better results with the heavier frames.

But I have to agree with our pal AMGF in terms of heavier racquet supplying more power only up to a certain point. The catch is that we still need to swing these things over and over again. Some extra weight may offer more power, but that's not good if the racquet is too heavy to play with all afternoon.

 

[McLovin]

When I leaded my frame to achieve a higher mgr/i ratio, I added about 24g without increasing SW.

Is that even possible? I ask because the TW customization tool (here http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/customization.php ) won't allow you to add weight without increasing swingweight. Just curious how you did it & measured the result.

 

[AMGF]

Is that even possible? I ask because the TW customization tool (here http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/customization.php ) won't allow you to add weight without increasing swingweight. Just curious how you did it & measured the result.

At the top of the handle. Look it up. You can add large amount of weight with virtually no effect on SW.

 

[BHud]

Very interesting. To take a real life example, compare the Pure Aero and Pure Aero Tour. Essentially identical swing weight, but the tour version has a higher static weight and is more head light. According to this data, a player would not get any more power out of the PAT even though it is heavier? Am I interpreting that correctly?

And in my experience, the PAT swings quicker than the PA?

 

[Karma Tennis]

compare the Pure Aero and Pure Aero Tour. Essentially identical swing weight, but the tour version has a higher static weight and is more head light. According to this data, a player would not get any more power out of the PAT even though it is heavier? Am I interpreting that correctly?

The higher static weight of the PAT means it does have more power "potential" in certain situations. The most obvious ones would be Return of Serve shots, certain types of defensive ground strokes, and punch volleys.

The heavier PAT does not get pushed around as much as the PA. The extra static weight means that a greater force is required to deflect the PAT. That also means the PAT will return more energy in the rebound phase. (The heavier PAT also increases the margin of error for off centre shots for the same reason.)

 

[Karma Tennis]

And in my experience, the PAT swings quicker than the PA?

Unless you actually measure your swing speed using an objective method (eg. film your stroke with a high speed camera) your experience is really just perception.

Many players feel that a more Head Light balanced racquet swings faster if SW numbers are similar, even when there is a 10 to 20 gram difference in static weight of the two racquets being compared.

Not that there is anything wrong with your perception from a playing view-point. You should always go with whatever feels good for you regardless of any other opinions (including those based of objective scientific measurement).

 

[BHud]

Unless you actually measure your swing speed using an objective method (eg. film your stroke with a high speed camera) your experience is really just perception.

Many players feel that a more Head Light balanced racquet swings faster if SW numbers are similar, even when there is a 10 to 20 gram difference in static weight of the two racquets being compared.

Not that there is anything wrong with your perception from a playing view-point. You should always go with whatever feels good for you regardless of any other opinions (including those based of objective scientific measurement).

Sorry Karma...been playing tennis for 45 years. It's not "perception" that I can more easily dig out low balls to the forehand with whippy topspin or get around on my backhand return of serve aggressively. Call it what you will but the PAT swings quicker than the PA for me.

PS - who's that in the picture with the Ricky?

 

[Karma Tennis]

Sorry Karma...been playing tennis for 45 years. It's not "perception" that I can more easily dig out low balls to the forehand with whippy topspin or get around on my backhand return of serve aggressively. Call it what you will but the PAT swings quicker than the PA for me.

PS - who's that in the picture with the Ricky?

@BHud, you must just be trying that little bit harder with the PAT

The two guys in the picture with the jangle machine are James Ave and L'Angelo Misteriso.