If you could reverse the outcome of 3 grand slam matches then which 3 would those matches be ?

My picks were based on

2006 FO gives Fed the hyped CYGS and also does a lot of good to Fed's confidence on Clay, in 2007 as well it would help him, incase he loses in 2007 then I have 2008 FO final to again reverse, that would ruin Nadal's confidence and also win Fed 2008W and 2009AO. 2015W is pivotal to break Novak's confidence so that 2015 USO also falls in place.

Huge change to Fed's legacy, 3 slams altered would amount to 6-7 slams at least.
 
The answer could depend on whether every other outcome is guaranteed to stay the same. Otherwise the butterfly effect is in play.

2009 Wimbledon Final (poor Roddick)
2018 Wimbledon SF, Djokodal
2019 AO Final

If not, I’d reverse the 3 Djokodal slam final results Rafa lost 2011-2012 and see what happened after that.
 
topher said:
The answer could depend on whether every other outcome is guaranteed to stay the same. Otherwise the butterfly effect is in play.

2009 Wimbledon Final (poor Roddick)
2018 Wimbledon SF, Djokodal
2019 AO Final

If not, I’d reverse the 3 Djokodal slam final results Rafa lost 2011-2012 and see what happened after that.
Click to expand...

I have taken into account butterfly effect :D

Otherwise why will I pick clay matches ?

I hate clay.
 
Sunny014 said:
Maybe you are right.
Click to expand...
Borg would have gone to Australia to try and win the Grand Slam -he would probably have achieved it, so becomes the third man in history to do it. He probably doesn't retire as early and wins a few more slams, giving him maybe 15 or 16, which means Sampras has to keep playing if he wants the slam record, which means more meetings with Federer. Sampras probably fails and is never the slam record holder. Meanwhile, back in the 80s, McEnroe and Connors probably go to Oz to try and stop Borg which means the Australian Open becomes the real fourth slam years earlier than it did, in reality.

Yes, things would have been different.
 
Spencer Gore said:
Borg would have gone to Australia to try and win the Grand Slam -he would probably have achieved it, so becomes the third man in history to do it. He probably doesn't retire as early and wins a few more slams, giving him maybe 15 or 16, which means Sampras has to keep playing if he wants the slam record, which means more meetings with Federer. Sampras probably fails and is never the slam record holder. Meanwhile, back in the 80s, McEnroe and Connors probably go to Oz to try and stop Borg which means the Australian Open becomes the real fourth slam years earlier than it did, in reality.

Yes, things would have been different.
Click to expand...

Right, it would have made the AO a lot relevant at least 10-12 years earlier .....
Maybe Agassi and Pete would have taken the AO seriously from the 80s itself, Mac would also go to play Aus in 84.

The greats before Fed would look a lot more respectable in number and close to the big 3.
 
Sunny014 said:
Right, it would have made the AO a lot relevant at least 10-12 years earlier .....
Maybe Agassi and Pete would have taken the AO seriously from the 80s itself, Mac would also go to play Aus in 84.

The greats before Fed would look a lot more respectable in number and close to the big 3.
Click to expand...
One set of tennis can rewrite history...
 
USO F 1980
YEC F 1996 (As much as i like Pete, Boris deserved that one).
USO F 2001 (Pete beating Rafter, Agassi, Safin and Hewitt would be a hell of a run).

Honorable mention: Wimbledon final 1992, would be interesting to see if a) Agassi ever bounces back from losing his fourth consecutive slam final and b) if Goran would become less of a headcase in his future Wimbledon endeavors. Having his Wimbledon win in the bag so early in his career might give him a confidence boost and make him an even tougher rival for Pete. On the other hand, the 2001 tournament would lose its magic.
 
Assuming everything else stays the same, 2007, 2013 and 2021 USO final.

Okay even hypothetically that's extreme LOL.

I'll go for other players. Berdych winning Wimbledon by beating all the Big 3, Nishikori winning the 2014 US Open, and Krajinovic winning Bercy 2017.
 
Sunny014 said:
As a Novak fan you should erase those abominable losses vs Pigeons Murray and Stan, that is biggest black mark
Click to expand...
It's not a big issue for us Novak fans. He has won everything many times. That Wimbledon final do sting because Novak fans think, rightfully, that he is better player than Murray on any day.
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
Assuming everything else stays the same, 2007, 2013 and 2021 USO final.

Okay even hypothetically that's extreme LOL.

I'll go for other players. Berdych winning Wimbledon by beating all the Big 3, Nishikori winning the 2014 US Open, and Krajinovic winning Bercy 2017.
Click to expand...

Ripple effect would come into play.
If Novak is good enough to win 2007USO then he would be very stronger in 2008 and 09 as well.
I picked Fed to beat Nadal at FO2008, if that is possible then will Fed ever lose to Nadal after that ?
Ripple effect changes everything....
 
nachiket nolefam said:
It's not a big issue for us Novak fans. He has won everything many times. That Wimbledon final do sting because Novak fans think, rightfully, that he is better player than Murray on any day.
Click to expand...

Yes, if I am given a chance to change Novak's matches that do no involve Fedal then I would strip Murray of that W and USO ... :D .... Then to balance things I would reward Tsonga with 08AO and Medvedev with that AO21.

Murray doesnt deserve a wimbledon win or a USO win, he hasn't even been great at USO, donno how he stole a win over novak
 
Sunny014 said:
Yes, if I am given a chance to change Novak's matches that do no involve Fedal then I would strip Murray of that W and USO ... :D .... Then to balance things I would reward Tsonga with 08AO and Medvedev with that AO21.

Murray doesnt deserve a wimbledon win or a USO win, he hasn't even been great at USO, donno how he stole a win over novak
Click to expand...
Yeah. I think we are in agreement here, Murray is a lesser player.
 
Sunny014 said:
Nice ... CYGS and a final slam win ... not bad... but it would be 23-19-19 ..still close for novak to bridge the gap
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there's no scenario in which they don't both catch Fed

but with a CYGS and beating them both in succession as an old fart...he could make a real strong case for being better than both of them.
 
Sunny014 said:
So that Steffi become undisputed GOAT and no Seles argument exists...
Click to expand...
The 1989 final could have gave her maybe 2 CGS (we don’t know if everything would have remained the same). This would have been a monumental achievement. The 1990 final wasn’t a really fair match imo as she was dealing with her father scandal. In retrospective, she probably shouldn’t have played that tournament. And the 1992 final was her toughest lost of her career. She even said that she has never seen the match and she never will.
 
Sunny014 said:
So that Steffi become undisputed GOAT and no Seles argument exists...
Click to expand...

Yes, with a FO 89 win Steffi would have had a second Grand Slam in a row.
And with a FO 92 Steffi win the Seles stabbing would have never happened and Steffi haters would have a big excuse less.
 
I will try to pick some comparatively niche ones.

1) Delpo vs Rafa US Open 2017 SF (would've been awesome for Delpo to win one after all that)
2) Delpo vs Murray Olympics 2016 F (same logic as before)
3) Tsonga vs Murray Wimbledon 2016 QF (felt like that was such a nice opportunity for Tsonga to get his slam)

Big 4 era was crazy. Delpo and Tsonga reached 1 slam final combined after Delpo's US Open win. So many SFs and QFs.
 
Steffi-forever said:
The 1989 final could have gave her maybe 2 CGS (we don’t know if everything would have remained the same). This would have been a monumental achievement. The 1990 final wasn’t a really fair match imo as she was dealing with her father scandal. In retrospective, she probably shouldn’t have played that tournament. And the 1992 final was her toughest lost of her career. She even said that she has never seen the match and she never will.
Click to expand...

R. Schweikart said:
Yes, with a FO 89 win Steffi would have had a second Grand Slam in a row.
And with a FO 92 Steffi win the Seles stabbing would have never happened and Steffi haters would have a big excuse less.
Click to expand...

Seles is not an excuse, it is a very valid reason.

Without Gunter doing what he did Seles would have cleaned all of the AOs and FOs for most of the 90s, we could expect her to steal an odd wimbledon or 2.
USO as well 1-2 here and there more she would have won

Seles would have been on 7AOs + 7FOs + 2W + 5USOs = 21 Slams

Something like this, when a 5 years older ATG starts choking vs a younger ATG who is still a teenage then that becomes a serious mental block from which there is no coming back.

It would have been worse than Federer-Nadal, Steffi would have been on 13-14 slams while Seles would have went on to cross 20 as she was 4.5 years younger which is a big gap.
 
Gunter Parche literally cost Seles the GOAThood, that 93-99 period would have sealed everything in Seles's favor, before the william sisters started winning slams Seles would have cleaned house, every year AO+FO and one of W or USO every year would have been hers for sure.
 
ffw2 said:
Well, you've got to put the Jams tally in context. The actual number is considerably lower.
Click to expand...

whose is lower?

I was told that none of Fed's Slams before 2008 count, as Rafa wasn't really good until then and so Fed really had no competition until that point.
 
Rosstour said:
there's no scenario in which they don't both catch Fed

but with a CYGS and beating them both in succession as an old fart...he could make a real strong case for being better than both of them.
Click to expand...

In a realistic scenario lets take this into account.

Federer takes 2008 Wimbledon FInal
Federer takes 2014 Wimbledon Final
Federer takes 2019 Wimbledon Final

This puts Federer at 23, Nadal at 19 and Novak at 18.

Nadal would win a max of 1 more slam, so he is set at 20.
Novak is the guy who can maybe go from 18 to 3-4 slams up but 5 up ? .... a bit tough

Lets make it even tougher

Federer without Mono takes 2008 AO
Federer takes 2014 Wimbledon Final
Federer takes 2019 Wimbledon Final

Now Fed 23, Nadal 20 and Novak 17, even if Novak takes 3-4 slams he is still stuck at 21 but he can stop Nadal at 20 or a best of 21 .... they both fail to beat as next gen would anyway arrive by 2024
 
Sunny014 said:
In a realistic scenario lets take this into account.

Federer takes 2008 Wimbledon FInal
Federer takes 2014 Wimbledon Final
Federer takes 2019 Wimbledon Final

This puts Federer at 23, Nadal at 19 and Novak at 18.

Nadal would win a max of 1 more slam, so he is set at 20.
Novak is the guy who can maybe go from 18 to 3-4 slams up but 5 up ? .... a bit tough

Lets make it even tougher

Federer without Mono takes 2008 AO
Federer takes 2014 Wimbledon Final
Federer takes 2019 Wimbledon Final

Now Fed 23, Nadal 20 and Novak 17, even if Novak takes 3-4 slams he is still stuck at 21 but he can stop Nadal at 20 or a best of 21 .... they both fail to beat as next gen would anyway arrive by 2024
Click to expand...

Rafa will end on 22-23 Slams
Novak on 23-27
 
Rosstour said:
Rafa will end on 22-23 Slams
Novak on 23-27
Click to expand...

Impossible!

Nadal has a MAX of 1 more Slam left in him and that is at the 2022FO, if he loses in 2022 then he is finished.

Novak I am not sure how far he can go, he looks set to reach 25 slams but injuries can change things

Not everyone is Roger Federer to win 3 slams after 35, lets not forget the field is not as weak as it was in 2017-2018 after Novak-Murray went down, Medvedev and Zverev are young and powerful, even Stefan is, these guys are young and hungry.

I have a strong feeling they not let Novak cross 22 or 23, this next year will tell us a lot on how the slams race will end up, at the end of 2022 we can predict.
 
Rosstour said:
whose is lower?
Click to expand...
Lowering bars?

You've come to the right place, brother. :giggle:

iu
 
Sunny014 said:
Seles is not an excuse, it is a very valid reason.

Without Gunter doing what he did Seles would have cleaned all of the AOs and FOs for most of the 90s, ...
Click to expand...

:-D What makes you think this BS?
So "Gunter" is responsible for Seles not winning AO 94 (:-D!), AO 95, AO 97, AO 98, AO 99? Graf, Pierce, Hingis, Hingis, Hingis beg to differ!
And not winning FO 93, FO 94, FO 95, FO 96, FO 97, FO 98, FO 99??
Mighty Gunter...
What cheap excuses for year-long failure!

Graf and Hingis were definitely better players than Seles. On every surface.

Seles was a transitional champ, comparable to Osaka.
 
Sunny014 said:
Gunter Parche literally cost Seles the GOAThood, that 93-99 period would have sealed everything in Seles's favor, before the william sisters started winning slams Seles would have cleaned house, every year AO+FO and one of W or USO every year would have been hers for sure.
Click to expand...

Why this?
Any evidence, no even any indication for that?

And don't come up with this whining, "but, but, my Moni won 7 of 9 slams in 1991-93". That argument has been thoroughly debunked long ago.
 
@Spencer Gore @Rosstour

In your view how would the Slams race have been today if Pete & Agassi had been just 5 & 6 years younger respectively to Federer instead of 10 years and 11 years respectively ?

Something like 1976 born and 1975 born for both of them now.

1975 - Agassi
1976 - Sampras
1981 - Federer
1986 - Nadal
1987 - Djokovic

I guess Djokovic still benefits the most from this scenario as he peaks the last, but how does it change Roger's mental strength with stronger prev gen ATG? Would Pete be able to adapt to newer racquets or would he still have the huge decline as he was already declining bigtime in 98 itself, can't expect him to be any better if that guy is sent to 2003 facing the axe in the form of Federer?
 
Sunny014 said:
@Spencer Gore @Rosstour

In your view how would the Slams race have been today if Pete & Agassi had been just 5 & 6 years younger respectively to Federer instead of 10 years and 11 years respectively ?
....
Click to expand...

Speaking about hypotheticals - in your view how would the slam race stand today if Steffi had not had to suffer under her family's awful blackmail scandal in 1990-92?
What do you think, honestly?
 
Sunny014 said:
Impossible!

Nadal has a MAX of 1 more Slam left in him and that is at the 2022FO, if he loses in 2022 then he is finished.

Novak I am not sure how far he can go, he looks set to reach 25 slams but injuries can change things

Not everyone is Roger Federer to win 3 slams after 35, lets not forget the field is not as weak as it was in 2017-2018 after Novak-Murray went down, Medvedev and Zverev are young and powerful, even Stefan is, these guys are young and hungry.

I have a strong feeling they not let Novak cross 22 or 23, this next year will tell us a lot on how the slams race will end up, at the end of 2022 we can predict.
Click to expand...

Here's my view: I can't say Nadal is finished when 2 of his 3 losses EVER at RG have been to Djok. So for me, right now he's only beatable by one guy. And there's no guarantee that guy even gets to Rafa next year.

Rafa doesn't beat himself like Fed does. I don't see him going down in straight to Medvedev like Djok did (if healthy).
 
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