If you re-string only the crosses, how do you handle the old knots?

My string pattern has one cross end tie to a main, the other to a cross.

What I think: cut crosses, push the knot on the main away from the grommet from the tail outside grommet. Close cut, leave the knot as is.

Will the knot rattle?
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Cut the cross and gently pull the knot away from the grommet. If that does not work, try pushing the old out away. If you plan to do this on your own frames or at a customers' request, gently enlarge another hole so you can tie cross-on-cross. FWIW, knot will not buzz or rattle. Eventually it may fall off if you leave it there.
 

struggle

Legend
You should be able to snip the knot away (once you push it from the grommet it will be easier) from the main
if done carefully, without much issue.

As stated above, next time tie cross off on a cross and yes you'll likely need to enlarge a hole to accommodate two strings.
 

Humbi_HTX

Rookie
I have done this several times, different reasons of why, but you can snip/cut the old knot without damage to the main where it is tied off. It has never been an issue.
 

fritzhimself

Semi-Pro
I consider this approach to be a gross bungle.
What does that save you, please?
The bit of string and a lot of time to fumble out the old string.
What's the point - are you from Scotland - they are supposed to be the greediest stringers?
On top of that, you're sure to strain your frame - so a no go.
I would never do something like that - keyword "stringer honor".
Shame on you for this evil thought or contact Miki 1234. :D:D
 

am1899

Hall of Fame
Advisable to alternate your weave the opposite way on the second set of crosses. OTOH, some “expert” on here claimed dented strings don’t matter. So if you believe that, don’t bother.
 

Dobby

New User
Same as what others have said already. But tie off on a cross, you might need to enlarge or use some chapstick will help.

Alternatively you can cut off the knot carefully
 

struggle

Legend
Advisable to alternate your weave the opposite way on the second set of crosses. OTOH, some “expert” on here claimed dented strings don’t matter. So if you believe that, don’t bother.
Yes, i did this when i practiced such (only a handful of times).....the alternating part, that is.

I've found the practice pointless going forward, but my mains are NG and as such, replacing crosses
has revealed zero benefit to me.
 

am1899

Hall of Fame
Yes, i did this when i practiced such (only a handful of times).....the alternating part, that is.

I've found the practice pointless going forward, but my mains are NG and as such, replacing crosses
has revealed zero benefit to me.
I agree, it’s a waste of time. No matter what you do, the second string job will be different than the first- particularly because of the wear and tension loss on the mains.

Me, I want the racquet to feel as humanly close to the same as possible every time. (Unless of course I decide to change something).
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
I consider this approach to be a gross bungle.
What does that save you, please?
The bit of string and a lot of time to fumble out the old string.
What's the point - are you from Scotland - they are supposed to be the greediest stringers?
On top of that, you're sure to strain your frame - so a no go.
I would never do something like that - keyword "stringer honor".
Shame on you for this evil thought or contact Miki 1234. :D:D
If people are from Scotland(why be racist against the Scots?!) they can do whatever they want with their strings.
If you are used to doing it, it actually saves a lot of time and money(especially if the cross is gut or an expensive multi). And it also prevents waste.
Some poly's can last a long time, and if they are crossed with gut or multies, simply restringing the cross makes sense.
I often test a lot of hybrids in the off seasons, and remove a lot of crosses in the process. Just remember the main will be much lower tension than the first stringing. I prestretch and use higher tensions in these cases.
I make sure to mount the frame in the stringer first before cutting the crosses out, tho. I also tend to leave the string-ends longer(about with the edge of the frame) so it's easier to pull later if needs be.
I can get a month out of a good poly. No way can I do that with a multi. A friend of mine runs TB mains with NXT crosses. He gets one restring of the crosses before he needs a new stringbed.
We both own stringing machines. You tend to do a lot more experimenting when you own one.
 

fritzhimself

Semi-Pro
You're right - I take that back with the Scots - sorry folks.
Actually, with a string cut out, the already stretched and thus dead string will not be better.
We don't need to sugarcoat this now - it is and remains absolute nonsense.
That would be the same as if you turn over the worn underpants and use them again.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
My string pattern has one cross end tie to a main, the other to a cross.

What I think: cut crosses, push the knot on the main away from the grommet from the tail outside grommet. Close cut, leave the knot as is.

Will the knot rattle?
April fool? Will the knot rattle? It may rattle you if you worry about it.
 
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WYK

Hall of Fame
You're right - I take that back with the Scots - sorry folks.
Actually, with a string cut out, the already stretched and thus dead string will not be better.
We don't need to sugarcoat this now - it is and remains absolute nonsense.
That would be the same as if you turn over the worn underpants and use them again.
Thank you for taking back your disgusting remark about Scots.

I agree. If a poly is dead, it's dead. But if it isn't dead, restringing a cross, especially if it is frayed gut or a multi, makes sense.
 

MAX PLY

Hall of Fame
You're right - I take that back with the Scots - sorry folks.
Actually, with a string cut out, the already stretched and thus dead string will not be better.
We don't need to sugarcoat this now - it is and remains absolute nonsense.
That would be the same as if you turn over the worn underpants and use them again.
Actually, I suspect you get better consistency of functionality with turning over your worn underpants than you do when replacing the crosses. As I’ve stated many times before, it matters little to me what one does with his/her own racquet but the fact that someone can replace the crosses does not mean it’s a recommended stringing practice. It’s simply not.
 

esm

Hall of Fame
I would also have another idea. Why not just flip the overgrip when one side is very worn? :rolleyes:
Not a bad idea. One time I ran out of the original Tourna grip in my bag, so I flip it around and I was able to get through the last 15/20 mins session. Since then, I always check if I have spare OG in my bag. Lol
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
What's the point - are you from Scotland - they are supposed to be the greediest stringers?
If people are from Scotland(why be racist against the Scots?!) they can do whatever they want with their strings.
You're right - I take that back with the Scots - sorry folks.
Thank you for taking back your disgusting remark about Scots.
I'm sorry, but can no one take a joke? I don't see this as racist....it may be stereotyping, but certainly not racist. And it was funny!
My maternal great grandmother and grandfather came to this country from Scotland (through Ellis Isle no less); they were Gaelic Scot. My paternal side is from Scotland as well. My DNA puts me all over Scotland and Ireland. (Somehow the Iberian peninsula got in there for 1%.....)
Anyway being Scotch/Irish, I find myself lucky. My Irish side is prone to drunkenness but the Scot in me is too cheap to pay!
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
I'm sorry, but can no one take a joke? I don't see this as racist....it may be stereotyping, but certainly not racist. And it was funny!
My maternal great grandmother and grandfather came to this country from Scotland (through Ellis Isle no less); they were Gaelic Scot. My paternal side is from Scotland as well. My DNA puts me all over Scotland and Ireland. (Somehow the Iberian peninsula got in there for 1%.....)
Anyway being Scotch/Irish, I find myself lucky. My Irish side is prone to drunkenness but the Scot in me is too cheap to pay!
Didn't realize the Scots were a race.
Technically, there is no such a thing as racism. We are all humans, and of one race regardless of skin colour(though all of us have varying degrees of Neanderthal DNA in our mix).
Racism in practice generally refers to making judgements based upon a stereotype of an ethnic group. Scots most definitely fall in to this category.
I didn't find it funny at all - because it was racist and unnecessary. Jokes about races aren't jokes you can share here. Take it elsewhere. Be adults.
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
Technically, there is no such a thing as racism. We are all humans, and of one race regardless of skin colour(though all of us have varying degrees of Neanderthal DNA in our mix).
Racism in practice generally refers to making judgements based upon a stereotype of an ethnic group. Scots most definitely fall in to this category.
I didn't find it funny at all - because it was racist and unnecessary. Jokes about races aren't jokes you can share here. Take it elsewhere. Be adults.
Technically you're right, there aren't significant differences between humans to connote a separate race. However, the generally observed use of the term race is to denote Caucasian, Negro, Asian, etc. Stereotyping then is not racist by any stretch.
And since you're being technical....Neanderthal DNA appears in all non-African humans. Please refrain from stereotyping all humans. ;)

The humor police will forever monitor your posts.
 
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Shroud

G.O.A.T.
If people are from Scotland(why be racist against the Scots?!) they can do whatever they want with their strings.
If you are used to doing it, it actually saves a lot of time and money(especially if the cross is gut or an expensive multi). And it also prevents waste.
Some poly's can last a long time, and if they are crossed with gut or multies, simply restringing the cross makes sense.
I often test a lot of hybrids in the off seasons, and remove a lot of crosses in the process. Just remember the main will be much lower tension than the first stringing. I prestretch and use higher tensions in these cases.
I make sure to mount the frame in the stringer first before cutting the crosses out, tho. I also tend to leave the string-ends longer(about with the edge of the frame) so it's easier to pull later if needs be.
I can get a month out of a good poly. No way can I do that with a multi. A friend of mine runs TB mains with NXT crosses. He gets one restring of the crosses before he needs a new stringbed.
We both own stringing machines. You tend to do a lot more experimenting when you own one.
You summed up the benefits pretty well!

I always do the crosses only until the mains are shot. I can get at least 2 crosses may 3 per one set of kevlar mains. Basically I hate stringing and don't notice much difference with a replaced cross vs fresh everything. Actually the replaced cross is often better because I don't have to experience the drop in mains tension like what happens in a fresh stringbed.

It takes me like 2 hours to string with the manual prestretching (try getting kevlar to stretch permanently) and stringing...hey you try getting kev/4g at 86lbs strung in 20 minutes. Have fun with the cross weaves at that tension.

So I notice I save time and the replaced crosses play a bit better than the original ones that I cut out. Alternating the weave helps. Saved time and saved some stringing hassle.

This weekend I might restring some crosses and because of this thread I probably will reuse the existing cross and just add some new string for the 2 lower crosses... I have some 4g 16l I dont plan to use and now I can!

To Scottsmen everywhere!

Also if you have gut mains and the poly is gone how can that not just save dough?
 

struggle

Legend
Also if you have gut mains and the poly is gone how can that not just save dough?
IME, since the gut retains it's tension, the poly is just there as a sliding surface and place keeper,
(strung at a lower tension anyhow) so i haven't found the need. I did it a few times, but stopped for this reason.
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
IME, since the gut retains it's tension, the poly is just there as a sliding surface and place keeper,
(strung at a lower tension anyhow) so i haven't found the need. I did it a few times, but stopped for this reason.
Huh? For what reason?

Cutting out the gut and doing fresh vs. redoing a cross has to save money
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Actually, I suspect you get better consistency of functionality with turning over your worn underpants than you do when replacing the crosses. As I’ve stated many times before, it matters little to me what one does with his/her own racquet but the fact that someone can replace the crosses does not mean it’s a recommended stringing practice. It’s simply not.
Yes, “recycling” underwear in this manner will keep you a 40-year-old virgin well into senior citizen years. :-D

#1 rule in retail...the customer is always right, as long as they are informed before the procedure and sign a waiver of responsibility. Mounted properly on a sturdy machine before cutting out the crosses, I’ve had zero casualties from doing this for guys looking to save some cash. I wouldn’t do it to my own frames and I tell them that before they decide.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
You summed up the benefits pretty well!

I always do the crosses only until the mains are shot. I can get at least 2 crosses may 3 per one set of kevlar mains. Basically I hate stringing and don't notice much difference with a replaced cross vs fresh everything. Actually the replaced cross is often better because I don't have to experience the drop in mains tension like what happens in a fresh stringbed.

It takes me like 2 hours to string with the manual prestretching (try getting kevlar to stretch permanently) and stringing...hey you try getting kev/4g at 86lbs strung in 20 minutes. Have fun with the cross weaves at that tension.

So I notice I save time and the replaced crosses play a bit better than the original ones that I cut out. Alternating the weave helps. Saved time and saved some stringing hassle.

This weekend I might restring some crosses and because of this thread I probably will reuse the existing cross and just add some new string for the 2 lower crosses... I have some 4g 16l I dont plan to use and now I can!

To Scottsmen everywhere!

Also if you have gut mains and the poly is gone how can that not just save dough?
Paragraph #3 made my elbow hurt just by reading it.
 

Folsom_Stringer_Musa

Professional
if only they were made "double sided". Many aren't anyhow, perhaps some are?
True.

Some of the Yonex overgrips are one sided only. Other side is rough or doesn't have the feeling of a overgrip.
Same goes with Head Comfy overgrip.

On the other hand, Wilson Pro overgrips can be flipped. Both sides are soft and has griping ability.
 

Folsom_Stringer_Musa

Professional
To Scottsmen everywhere!

Also if you have gut mains and the poly is gone how can that not just save dough?
For expensive mains, it may make sense to replace cheap cross or if cross dies (frayed or lost coating\preventing auto-snap) but mains still playable.
This is meant for stringer's own racket only.
 
I tried this once as an experiment. If you are careful the knot is fairly simple to cut off the main string. Would I do it again? Not a chance. It is awful for me. The tension is awful compared to a fresh job. The mains had stretched and so went board like on the new job. I guess if you use high tensions like @Shroud then this board like feeling g is what you are actually looking for so you can do this method. If you use normal tensions then I would highly advise against it. IMO it is just a waste of time and half a set of crosses. The mains take the least time to restring so I'm not even sure you save yourself time when doing this method carefully vs redoing the whole string bed
 

fritzhimself

Semi-Pro
Who has not yet understood, it is no longer to help.
This is raqcuet rape in its highest form and with nothing to justify.
No stringing license for such people - they belong at every tennis club on the bulletin board.
Stinginess is cool or how else can you describe it? :unsure:
 

struggle

Legend
Huh? For what reason?

Cutting out the gut and doing fresh vs. redoing a cross has to save money
For the reason that there is NO REASON to replace just the crosses in this type of setup.
You play it until the gut breaks or has lost too much tension (which is rare, it'll break first).
The poly doesn't play much into this setup, but to actually deaden it abit and provide slide/
snapback and that's rarely an issue.

So as the gut stretches abit (slightly) the already dead yet now deader poly keeps it in check. Do you follow?
 
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Crazydoc

New User
You could also leave out the cross strings completely, then they can't play dead. In addition, you then get massive spin......;)
 

petetennis54

New User
For expensive mains, it may make sense to replace cheap cross or if cross dies (frayed or lost coating\preventing auto-snap) but mains still playable.
This is meant for stringer's own racket only.
I do this sometimes on my racquets if the gut mains are good and the poly crosses have gone dead or I didn't like the tension. String new poly on the opposite side of the gut. I tie mains to mains and crosses to crosses. So gut is tied to gut and poly to poly. Then the knots are not an issue.
 

gucanella

New User
Here in Brazil, tennis products are so expensive that I use the same Wilson Pro Overgrip twice.

Because I have a OHBH, everytime the overgrip is getting bad, I just turn it upside-down, so i can use the "fresh and clean" part of it.
 

LOBALOT

Hall of Fame
Really to all their own but I don't see the need.

It is usually not the cross that makes me think a gut/poly hybrid is shot. Instead the gut that has given up the the battle due to the abuse and at that point while not broken the gut is shot and I restring the whole thing.
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
For the reason that there is NO REASON to replace just the crosses in this type of setup.
You play it until the gut breaks or has lost too much tension (which is rare, it'll break first).
The poly doesn't play much into this setup, but to actually deaden it abit and provide slide/
snapback and that's rarely an issue.

So as the gut stretches abit (slightly) the already dead yet now deader poly keeps it in check. Do you follow?
No. I dont. The poly will lose tension faster than the gut. When that happens the launch angle will be too high. String bed is too powerful. So no control. Gut is fine, but poly isnt. So with gut being so expensive just redo the cross. You improve playability and dont waste an expensive string.
 

Folsom_Stringer_Musa

Professional
Here in Brazil, tennis products are so expensive that I use the same Wilson Pro Overgrip twice.

Because I have a OHBH, everytime the overgrip is getting bad, I just turn it upside-down, so i can use the "fresh and clean" part of it.
It is possible to use that way to get more return for your money.
One thing you can do is to clean little (gently and dry) bit after it gets dirty.
Not all over grips are same. Some frays quickly.
You can and should try ordering from EU sites. They have Pro's Pro Super tacky over grips.
Not sure how much will be the shipping cost to Brazil.
 

First Serve

Rookie
Here in Brazil, tennis products are so expensive that I use the same Wilson Pro Overgrip twice.

Because I have a OHBH, everytime the overgrip is getting bad, I just turn it upside-down, so i can use the "fresh and clean" part of it.
I use my tennis shoes until the bottoms are racing slicks:D.

In high school playing days wore them down to the inner sole.

I'm guessing pros like Fed get a new pair for every match.
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Assuming you mean woodies, they were done by hand or a wooden tool that looked like big boomerang. Awls stuck in the holes were used to keep tension. If you meant a mineralized racquet, your guess is as good as mine since strings rubbing on hard edges would break quickly. Strings were probably woven reeds or gut from Mammoths. :happydevil:
 

tennisbike

Professional
IME, since the gut retains it's tension, the poly is just there as a sliding surface and place keeper,
Off Topic:
Have you or anyone measured gut tension before and after used? I wonder if we simply take what we heard and accept them as facts. My opinion is that some string retains its tension is a myth. All strings stretch out and at greater rate when at higher tension. Now when equally tensioned, and stretched out say 5 mm per 10 ft original length, if this is on a frame Kevlar is going to loose a lot more tension than natural gut.

Poly cross being a place keeper can be a useful mental image, but certainly not true. Else why would poly cross "die" sooner on a natural gut main hybrid string bed?
 

norcal

Hall of Fame
Anyway being Scotch/Irish, I find myself lucky. My Irish side is prone to drunkenness but the Scot in me is too cheap to pay!
Ha ha, one of my hitting buddies is Scotch/Irish and he calls himself a cheap drunk! (I never knew Scots were known for being 'cheap' until he mentioned it). :-D
 

Grieeegoorr

Rookie
You summed up the benefits pretty well!

I always do the crosses only until the mains are shot. I can get at least 2 crosses may 3 per one set of kevlar mains. Basically I hate stringing and don't notice much difference with a replaced cross vs fresh everything. Actually the replaced cross is often better because I don't have to experience the drop in mains tension like what happens in a fresh stringbed.

It takes me like 2 hours to string with the manual prestretching (try getting kevlar to stretch permanently) and stringing...hey you try getting kev/4g at 86lbs strung in 20 minutes. Have fun with the cross weaves at that tension.

So I notice I save time and the replaced crosses play a bit better than the original ones that I cut out. Alternating the weave helps. Saved time and saved some stringing hassle.

This weekend I might restring some crosses and because of this thread I probably will reuse the existing cross and just add some new string for the 2 lower crosses... I have some 4g 16l I dont plan to use and now I can!

To Scottsmen everywhere!

Also if you have gut mains and the poly is gone how can that not just save dough?
Hey Shroud, what technique have you settled on for prestretching Kevlar?
 
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