If your life depended on the outcome of a match with a worst-case scenario, which of these two players would you trust?

[TennisGrandpA]

Vitali.

Vitali was a professional kickboxer and a world champion in it six times I think.

Greatest h2h boxer in my book alongside Lennox Lewis.

 

[-NN-]

I’ll chose death since this is an impossible to win for anyone to win while trailing 0-2 and 2 breaks and 3 mp downs.

You could at least inquire about who the opponent is, yes?

 

[TennisGrandpA]

You could at least inquire about who the opponent is, yes?

I won’t if the opponent is a top 200 atp player.

Such optimism has ruined me already lol, have lost big in trading , almost 90% of my wealth.

 

[Fed_Nole]

It’s A match, I will choose Rafa, even from a decades long Nole fan.
1) Rafa peak is higher (my 2 cents only)
2) He rarely blinked in key matches. OTOH, Nole had USO13
3) If it’s series, I might lean to Nole due to his consistency, of course RG is exception.

 

[Biotic]

I'm tempted to pick Ned, but then I realize the match could be played indoors vs #1000.

The whole experience could quickly turn from just dying to dying in a humiliating kind of way.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Vitali.

Vitali was a professional kickboxer and a world champion in it 6 times before boxing.

I would have picked him too.

 

[GoatNo1]

is it 25% that it is CC match, 50% that it is HC and 25% GC?

 

[RS]

I would have picked him too.

Wlad would be higher on my list though despite that because he achieved more and beat more top fighters. But that's different to what you asked.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Wlad is higher on my all time list though.

That's perfectly fine.

 

[Mustard]

Nadal. He's the best big match player.

 

[mike danny]

Nadal. He's the best big match player.

That holds true mostly at RG where he is almost perfect. But on the other surfaces he's more or less 50/50.

 

[Mustard]

That holds true mostly at RG where he is almost perfect. But on the other surfaces he's more or less 50/50.

He's beaten Federer in Wimbledon and Australian Open finals, and beaten Djokovic in most of their US Open finals, on top of French Open domination.

The Nadal of 2005-2014 was particularly formidable in big matches. In matches in the majors against Federer and Djokovic in that period, Nadal won 18 and lost 5.

 

[messiahrobins]

Scenario;

Down by two sets, 0-5 in the third and 0-40, just like that, without knowing your opponent or even the surface on which you play to avoid possible conditioning in your choice (if you knew it was on clay the choice would be too easy, ditto on hard), in this scenario to whom between Djokovic and Nadal, or rather the two players who more than any other during their career have shown that they know how to overturn certain desperate score situations, would you entrust your slim hopes of survival?

*Obviously you can choose between Djokovic and Nadal with both at their peak.

Put Zverev in there maybe?

 

[messiahrobins]

That holds true mostly at RG where he is almost perfect. But on the other surfaces he's more or less 50/50.

USO he is 4-1 in finals. Huge difference for Nadal at FO and USO compared to AO and W

 

[messiahrobins]

He's beaten Federer in Wimbledon and Australian Open finals, and beaten Djokovic in most of their US Open finals, on top of French Open domination.

The Nadal of 2005-2014 was particularly formidable in big matches. In matches in the majors against Federer and Djokovic in that period, Nadal won 18 and lost 5.

I agree but there is a caveat to what you say in that Nadal was physically so strong over best of 5 set matches he wore both Federer and Djokovic down through sheer physicality.

 

[mike danny]

He's beaten Federer in Wimbledon and Australian Open finals, and beaten Djokovic in most of their US Open finals, on top of French Open domination.

The Nadal of 2005-2014 was particularly formidable in big matches. In matches in the majors against Federer and Djokovic in that period, Nadal won 18 and lost 5.

He has still lost more slam finals outside RG than he has won.

 

[messiahrobins]

He has still lost more slam finals outside RG than he has won.

Not at USO. and at W he only lost to Federer and Djokovic at their peaks and at AO only to Djokovic and Wawrinka (when injured). Losing to Federer and Djokovic in conditions that suit them better at their peaks i dont think is something we can criticise him for.
Djokovic oth has lost to Murray twice, Wawrinka twice Medvedev and a not peak Alcaraz x2. All fine players, and Alcaraz may go on to be GOAT, but at the times he lost to them they were not GOAT level players, Medvedev frankly was an embarrassment looking back.
As for Federer he only lost slam finals to Nadal Djokovic and Del Potro zoning pre-injury. Federer and Nadal in big matches were virtually unbeatable unless up against a fellow GOAT standard player.

 

[TheGoldenEra1990’s]

Well realistically no one is gonna prevail with that. But I would pick a healthy 2008-2010 Nadal over 2011/2015 djokovic or 2005-2006 Fed in this scenario or head to head. Slightly. The only question with Nadal is will his body hold up

 

[ebar86]

He has still lost more slam finals outside RG than he has won.

US OPEN
Final 10,11,13,17,19
Conversion 4/5 (10,13,17,19)

AO
Final 09,12,14,17,19,22
Conversion 2/6 (09,22)

Wimby
Final 06,07,08,10,11
Conversion 2/5 (08,10)

Total 8 wins out 16 finals.
So nope, it's split actually.

 

[Hitman]

Djokovic is the greatest player of all time when the back is against the wall. There has been no one more clutch than him when looking down the barrel of defeat. Picking anyone else over him, IMO, is foolish.

 

[1H-Backhand]

I am surprised you have not included Sinner in the choices. I'd go for him. His commitment to every point he plays is unquestionable so he would never consider that a lost cause. He has won quite a few matches coming from MPs down. His temperament is second to none ( past greats included ). And last but not least, he came back from 3 consecutive MPs to beat non other than Djokovic. Of course, even for him, that would be an ALMOST impossible mission but if I HAD to choose anyone then...
Of course the paradox is that, no matter who you put on the other side of the net, it's virtually impossible that he would find himself 0-2 0-5 0-40 down, so we are assuming that you are already at that score and you need "someone" to step in and try to rescue the apparently compromised situation...

 

[ebar86]

If the match is on clay, it is Rafa.
On hard or grass, it is Novak.

But on clay, the probability is very low that Rafa is trailing 1-2 (only thrice out of whatever hundred games), or even 0-2 (exception of last year grandpa Rafa at RG24). He usually done it in straights.
So it's almost illogical thing to happen on clay.

So, Novak it is.

 

[Winner Sinner]

If the match is on clay, it is Rafa.
On hard or grass, it is Novak.

But on clay, the probability is very low that Rafa is trailing 1-2 (only thrice out of whatever hundred games), or even 0-2 (exception of last year grandpa Rafa at RG24). He usually done it in straights.
So it's almost illogical thing to happen on clay.

So, Novak it is.

But this is not the scenario.
It starts with a score of 0-2 0-5 0-40, it is premeditated.
So in that type of scenario without knowing on which surface it will take place and against which opponent, to save yourself you are offered the possibility of choosing one between Djokovic and Nadal peak version to stay alive/not lose that match.

However, if you think about it, the worst scenario, rather than 0-2 0-5 0-40, is 0-2 0-5 and 40-0 down in the return game.
Starting 0-40 rather than down 40-0, already allows you to have a much better chance of recovering that game by leveraging the serve, therefore coming out unscathed from the first watertight compartment.

 

[ebar86]

I can't comprehend 0-2, 0-5, 0-40 if Nadal is playing on clay lol

So, Novak it is. Signed off.

 

[jl809]

Another question here is how many times Djokodal have come back from 5-1, 5-0 or an equivalent double break in a set.

It’s one thing fighting like a demon when you’re one break behind and the route is clear, and this is where Djoker was always so dangerous (more than anyone ever)

But when you’re so far back that the daylight is nowhere to be seen - like 0-5 0-40 (which is obvs the extreme example), this is where instinct tells me it’s Rafa too

From memory I can think of a few bonkers comebacks in sets from Ned

- 1-5, 0-40 vs Andujar
- 1-5, 30-40 vs Meddy
- 1-5, 30-40 vs Federer
- 0-4 vs Federer
- 2-5? Vs Korda (was a double break with Korda serving for the match)

But can’t recall them for Djoker. I’m sure he has a bunch and that there are others for Nadal too, I just can’t recall and have no idea how to look this up

 

[mike danny]

US OPEN
Final 10,11,13,17,19
Conversion 4/5 (10,13,17,19)

AO
Final 09,12,14,17,19,22
Conversion 2/6 (09,22)

Wimby
Final 06,07,08,10,11
Conversion 2/5 (08,10)

Total 8 wins out 16 finals.
So nope, it's split actually.

Fair enough. Still he's 50/50 in non-RG finals, so he's not unbeatable in big matches on HC and grass.

 

[Mustard]

Fair enough. Still he's 50/50 in non-RG finals, so he's not unbeatable in big matches on HC and grass.

The Australian Open was like a cursed event for Nadal for years, and for Spaniards in general. Nadal said this himself.

Even in 2009, after his win, he got a gut punch when he heard that his parents were splitting up.

2006: Couldn't play, foot injury
2007: Favourite to beat Gonzalez in quarter final, gets battered
2008: Favourite to beat Tsonga in semi final, gets really battered
2009: Parents tell him that they are splitting up before they fly back to Spain
2010: Injured in the quarter final against Murray
2011: Injured in the quarter final against Ferrer, when trying to win 4 majors in a row
2012: A break up at 4-2 in the fifth set against Djokovic, loses 5-7 in the fifth set
2013: Couldn't play the event, after a stomach bug
2014: Seemed strong favourite to beat Wawrinka in the final, having won all 12 of their matches without losing a set. Nadal injured in the warm-up, and then injured much worse early in the second set. Wawrinka beats him in 4 sets.
2017: A break up at 2-0 and 3-1 in the fifth set against Federer, loses it 3-6.
2018: In the quarter final against Cilic, another injury

 

[ebar86]

AO 2022 was nature correcting itself.
Like how RG 2009 was for Roger.

 

[jackson vile]

We’ve seen Novak jump right out of the grave against the best players in history multiple times, my favorite is when he smacked Federer’s serve and then just went on to turn the whole entire game around and win.

Federer simply couldn’t get over that one

 

[DSH]

we all know how it would go in both cases...

Spoiler

Disgusting!

 

[DSH]

Nadal. He's the best big match player.

When Nadal reached the semifinals of a GS event, his chances of winning were greater than those of the other two members of the Big 3.

 

[mike danny]

We’ve seen Novak jump right out of the grave against the best players in history multiple times, my favorite is when he smacked Federer’s serve and then just went on to turn the whole entire game around and win.

Federer simply couldn’t get over that one

We've also seen him lose slam finals in 3 or 4 to guys like Murray and Stan

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

Disgusting!

i agree... it's a disgusting tactic.