If Zverev wins a slam next year, Lendl is coach GOAT?

Gyswandir

Semi-Pro
First Murray, now Zverev wins ATP Finals against Djokovic. If he can finally improve in best of 5 and actually win a slam in 2019, Lendl will have shown he is able to take those with promise, but lacking that final mile
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
Who has Lendl coached who wasn't already projected to be a slam winner?? No, taking already great players and pushing them along is fine, but hardly the stuff of a coaching legend. You could make a much better case for so many others, such as Larry Stefanki, who guided Rios and Kafelnikov to number 1 and Henman to number 4.
 

Fabresque

Hall of Fame
What do you mean by lacking that final mile?

Has Murray not done everything he was meant to do in his career? He had The Big 3 to deal with and still won two OSG and 3 slams. Not to mention he was world no. 1 and won countless other tournaments.
 

Kalin

Legend
Who has Lendl coached who wasn't already projected to be a slam winner?? No, taking already great players and pushing them along is fine, but hardly the stuff of a coaching legend
Respectfully disagree. There's a huge gap, nay, an abyss, between a projected slam winner and an actual one and few manage to bridge it. What Lendl has done is already incredible... a Slam by Zverev will be the cherry on top.

There was a rumour a couple of years ago that Lendl might have taken Grigor as a pupil.... ah, what may have been :cry:
 
D

Deleted member 763024

Guest
Didn't Lendl already prove his coaching credentials with Murray?

This may be a great combination and a long lasting one if success continues to flow. Zverev is young and has many years ahead of him.

Not sure temperamentally if they will gel though. Let's wait and see.
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
Respectfully disagree. There's a huge gap, nay, an abyss, between a projected slam winner and an actual one and few manage to bridge it
......….but the players Lendl has coached were ALREADY EXPECTED to be slam winners, so the abyss was manageable
 

Jackuar

Hall of Fame
Idk who the GOAT coach is, but I can safely say it's not even the best coaching of this era.

Imagine learning in 2012 that Stanislas F***ing Wawrinka would turn into a mental titan and win multiple majors by beating Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer.

Norman > Lendl
This. At one point I seriously believed, and I think even many of us would have, that Stan could actually complete the Career GS with some luck even if grass is not his best surface.
 

Rafa's OCD

Semi-Pro
I'll put it this way: is anyone going to consider Boris Becker the greatest coach ever for the run he had with Novak? the answer is no, and for the same reason I can't consider Lendl's work with Murray and Zverev that incredible. nor am I putting Edberg in the coaching hall of fame for supposedly turning Roger Federer into a legitimate player. those guys got on board with already established champions. in the case of Murray and Zvervev, both were/are extremely talented players who maybe hadn't quite achieved as much as they should have, but were already top level players who needed an nudge forward. that's commendable, certainly. but let's not pretend Lendl turned a Sam Querrey into a multiple Slam winner.
 

Kalin

Legend
If he wants to prove he's a super coach then he should pair with someone who just stinks.
I am not sure I quite agree with your point of view, with all respect (I know because I've given this a thought before in similar circumstances). Does Belichick have to coach the Cleveland Browns to a Super Bowl to prove how good he is? Or maybe that college team that just folded after, what was it, 50+ losses in a row? Should Pep Guardiola take some Championship 'kick it far and run after it fast' team to the League Cup to show his quality?

There are coaches for young/improving players (the type of coach found at a Bollettieri-type academy) and there are coaches for the pro level (the 'stinkers', as you say :) ). And then, at the top of the pyramid (food chain) are the elite coaches for the elite teams/players. This is where Lendl operates. Different skills, different mindset, different approach etc.

Elite coaches only (if ever) move to a lower level when they're not good enough at the top anymore. Lendl is as good as it gets at that level given the results he has got from his players. And yes, Norman's work has also been very impressive.
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
Does Belichick have to coach the Cleveland Browns to a Super Bowl to prove how good he is?
No, but if he did you'd say he's a greater coach than someone who only successfully coached teams with outstanding personnel. However, the analogy falls short because Belichick has coached a long time with teams with very different personnel over the years, and always seems to have some degree of success. Lendl starts with great players and leads them to greatness. Ho hum.
 
Lendl is awesome. He brings Skill, history, communication, and general badassery.
Lendl naturally commands yoooj respect. He is pursued by talented underachievers on a high level...and takes them higher.
Clearly, he learned from one of the best of the best. Tony Roche...who learned from Hop.
But my favorite recent coach is Magnus norman, for his work with stanley. Thorough.
 

Kalin

Legend
No, but if he did you'd say he's a greater coach than someone who only successfully coached teams with outstanding personnel. However, the analogy falls short because Belichick has coached a long time with teams with very different personnel over the years, and always seems to have some degree of success. Lendl starts with great players and leads them to greatness. Ho hum.
Well, Belichick has been a coach all his bloody life. In the meantime, Ivan Lendl was busy setting tennis records. Lendl, unless I am mistaken, has had two coaching jobs and both times his pupil had immediate and previously unreached success at the very top level. This, to me, is outstanding.

And, sorry to say, but Belichick will always be remembered for his Super Bowl wins and his overall record with the Patriots; not for whatever success he has had before. I just checked his Wikipedia page; he was an assistant on two Super-Bowl winning teams while his pre-Pats head-coaching career (the one that counts when one talks about greatness) was pretty crappy, to be honest. And, he-he, turns out he did coach the Browns... you can check his results with them... not good :p:eek:

By your logic, Steve Kerr is a ho hum coach too... I don't recall him having any prior success as a coach before taking over the Warriors. So is Pep Guardiola. He had a couple of uneventful years as a youth coach before taking over the mens' team of Barca and immediately winning everything that could be won... several times over. Both Kerr and Pep, with virtually no prior coaching history, started with great players and led them to greatness, to use your own words. Ho hum indeed :cool:

Anyway, I am not really arguing since people will always have different criteria on how to rate/grade coaches. It is very difficult since it is not the coach per se who does the playing; the players do. But let's not pretend that what Lendl has done is not special; it freaking is.
 
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