Iga Swiatek receives doping ban after positive test for banned substance trimetazidine

[FedForGOAT]

I would like to have seen this Barry Binds guy play. He sounds like a great player.

Whoops, Barry Binds sounds like something for a different forum…

 

[Bartelby]

It is completely false to say that Sharapova deliberately cheated. She was exonerated of this charge and yet still got 15 months for unintentional doping.

I have little doubt Sharapova deliberately cheated in order of improve her physical stamina. The Iga suspension is a joke if it is for December, when no important tournaments are scheduled. She should have been suspended in order for her to miss the AO, assuming the suspension was justified. Halep got screwed, period.

 

[Mustard]

I have little doubt Sharapova deliberately cheated in order of improve her physical stamina

Meldonium was not on the banned list until 1 January 2016, and Sharapova tested positive at the 2016 Australian Open.

Sharapova got an initial 2-year ban, reduced to 15 months on appeal. I believe the reasons for the harshness, compared to Sinner and Swiatek, to be Sharapova representing Russia and Sharapova herself revealing her positive test in a press conference before it had been publicly revealed.

 

[LOBALOT]

It is completely false to say that Sharapova deliberately cheated. She was exonerated of this charge and yet still got 15 months for unintentional doping.

It's this kind of reasoning though why we have this problem with tennis. Deliberate or not if she tested + she is guilty. I personally feel she make up the excuse about not seeing that e-mail but happened to see all the others. Especially given it was known at the time that that drug was under investigation for potential ban as it was known to provide a benefit. In fact the very benefit she sought from taking it.

We need to take all these stories and excuses out of it.

 

[LOBALOT]

Meldonium was not on the banned list until 1 January 2016, and Sharapova tested positive at the 2016 Australian Open.

Baloney. It was well known they were looking at this drug due to the benefit it had which is the very reason Sharapova was taking it. These are the same lame excuses we see being "thought up" just to work the system.

 

[Mustard]

It's this kind of reasoning though why we have this problem with tennis. Deliberate or not if she tested + she is guilty. I personally feel she make up the excuse about not seeing that e-mail but happened to see all the others. Especially given it was known at the time that that drug was under investigation for potential ban as it was known to provide a benefit. In fact the very benefit she sought from taking it.

We need to take all these stories and excuses out of it.

She tested positive within weeks of meldonium becoming a banned substance, so what advantage did she get by continuing to take it? None.

 

[Bartelby]

She indeed tested positive to a drug that was only recently listed for contentious reasons. Many athletes missed the same email and were pinged unwittingly for doping.

Morevoer, many who saw the listing of Meldonium and stopped taking it were still banned because WADA did no research and it did not know the substance stayed in the body for months, not days.

It's this kind of reasoning though why we have this problem with tennis. Deliberate or not if she tested + she is guilty. I personally feel she make up the excuse about not seeing that e-mail but happened to see all the others. Especially given it was known at the time that that drug was under investigation for potential ban as it was known to provide a benefit. In fact the very benefit she sought from taking it.

We need to take all these stories and excuses out of it.

 

[Mustard]

Baloney. It was well known they were looking at this drug due to the benefit it had which is the very reason Sharapova was taking it. These are the same lame excuses we see being "thought up" just to work the system.

It was not on the banned list until 1 January 2016. That's the truth.

Should Djokovic be punished for his CVAC oxygen machine in 2011? It wasn't against the rules.

 

[Bartelby]

I can't remember you or anyone else drawing our attention to the ban before it happened. WADA had and still has not researched the drug. It's too expensive to test, so they just classified it.

Baloney. It was well known they were looking at this drug due to the benefit it had which is the very reason Sharapova was taking it. These are the same lame excuses we see being "thought up" just to work the system.

 

[LOBALOT]

It was not on the banned list until 1 January 2016. That's the truth.

Should Djokovic be punished for his CVAC oxygen machine in 2011? It wasn't against the rules.

when is the AO each year????? she got the letter she knew.

 

[Bartelby]

This is simply false. It was an email, not a letter, by the way.

when is the AO each year????? she got the letter she knew.

 

[Mustard]

when is the AO each year?????

In January, so just after meldonium went on the banned list in the case of 2016.

she got the letter she knew.

Clearly not. If she knew, she would be a terrible criminal to get caught so quickly, and unbelievably stupid.

 

[LOBALOT]

I can't remember you or anyone else drawing our attention to the ban before it happened. WADA had and still has not researched the drug. It's too expensive to test, so they just classified it.

I did not bring it up nor did I follow it. I didn't get e mails like the tours sent to the players like Sharapova. It certainly was discussed more broadly.

 

[Bartelby]

I discussed all this at the time, but the short story is that USADA were gunning for Russian athletes, not Sharapova, as part of their "kick the Russians out of sport" campaign.

I did not bring it up nor did I follow it. I didn't get e mails like the tours sent to the players like Sharapova. It certainly was discussed more broadly.

 

[LOBALOT]

In January, so just after meldonium went on the banned list in the case of 2016.


Clearly not. If she knew, she would be a terrible criminal to get caught so quickly, and unbelievably stupid.

It is not a criminal/legal thing. this isn't civil law. they banned it and she knew. she had it in her system to take advantage of the drug and was caught.

 

[Bartelby]

The legal process found that she did not know, so you are spreading falsehoods.

It is not a criminal/legal thing. this isn't civil law. they banned it and she knew. she had it in her system to take advantage of the drug and was caught.

 

[LOBALOT]

I discussed all this at the time, but the short story is that USADA were gunning for Russian athletes, not Sharapova, as part of their "kick the Russians out of sport" campaign.

Seriously are trying to argue that the drug has no benefit and this was some plot of the west against the east?

why would the west not just take the same drugs the bearded East German women athletes were taking instead?

 

[Mustard]

she had it in her system to take advantage of the drug and was caught.

After a few weeks of it being on the banned list, and after taking it for years before when it wasn't on the banned list? Not very likely.

 

[Bartelby]

Meldonium has no performance-enhancing benefit other than what caffeine possesses. It's a pick-me-up available at any street kiosk in the Baltics and East Europe.

There is no pharmacological reason for it to be banned.

Seriously are trying to argue that the drug has no benefit and this was some plot of the west against the east?

why would the west not just take the same drugs the bearded East German women athletes were taking instead?

 

[LOBALOT]

The legal process found that she did not know, so you are spreading falsehoods.

There should be no legal process. this is isn't a court of law.

you are producing circular arguments that are twisting your statements in circles.

 

[Bartelby]

In any system that penalises an individual, natural justice requires that they be heard. There is an elaborate legal process run by barristers following legal principles and processes that deals with doping.

You just want to boot people out. This is sheer authoritarianism.

There should be no legal process. this is isn't a court of law.

you are producing circular arguments that are twisting your statements in circles.

 

[LOBALOT]

Meldonium has no performance-enhancing benefit other than what caffeine possesses. It's a pick-me-up.

Sorry but this just isn't the case. I will listen to the physicians that made the decision to ban the drug.

 

[Bartelby]

I don't think physicians were involved, but could you name those involved that you listened to?

Sorry but this just isn't the case. I will listen to the physicians that made the decision to ban the drug.

 

[LOBALOT]

In any system that penalises an individual, natural justice requires that they be heard. There is an elaborate legal process run by barristers following legal principles and processes that deals with doping.

You just want to boot people out. This is sheer authoritarianism.

This is not a court of law and this is not a class in legal ethics. If you want to discuss this from a civil law scenario than you have standing but it isn't and your theories do not apply to a club.

They can dope, test positive, get kicked out of this club and make their own club with rules that allow dopers.

This club says you can't do it. There is nothing stoping them from going off and forming their own club for dopers. That is not authoritarianism.

You are mixing civics with tennis.

An autocratic government would imprision the players or simply have them shot. We know those countries exist.

Your arguments in this area twist themself in all sorts of ways.

 

[Bartelby]

There is a process to satisfy natural justice in these matters and to depart from it is an authoritarian course of action.

This is not a court of law and this is not a class in legal ethics. If you want to discuss this from a civil law scenario than you have standing but it isn't and your theories do not apply to a club.

They can dope, test positive, get kicked out of this club and make their own club with rules that allow dopers.

This club says you can't do it. There is nothing stoping them from going off and forming their own club for dopers. That is not authoritarianism.

You are mixing civics with tennis.

 

[LOBALOT]

There is a process to satisfy natural justice in these matters and to depart from it is an authoritarian course of action.

There is no natural justice in a club. It is funny how you apply it in tennis but not government affairs.

In the case of countries it is no problem in a communist system for a government to simply lock someone up or put them in house arrest without any recourse.

In this case we are talking about a club sport with a set of rules players sign on entry and indicate they will abide by them in exchange for the benefit of financial reward and fame.\

To me that is twisted around.

 

[Bartelby]

A club is an association that you join, but it does not constitute a livelihood through competitions.

Where an association can cause an individual immense financial cost then natural justice usually operates.

There is no natural justice in a club. It is funny how you apply it in tennis but not government affairs.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

You're the one who has an itch that you keep scratching.

Said the guy who cannot stop himself from posting the same propaganda anytime Sharapova is mentioned. Obsessive in the extreme. Dry your eyes.

Sorry but this just isn't the case. I will listen to the physicians that made the decision to ban the drug.

Your statement will be ignored in favor of cries of a "witch hunt". The research into the drug and its appplication was known--proven (and posted on this site years ago), yet some favor defensive propaganda rather than truth.

Supplements “contamination” in cases of Halep and Iga. These are two similar cases to be honest.

Indeed.

How is it? Tests positive for a banned substance.

Yes--the same situation, but some attempt to place a halo on the head of certain players of this era as though they are above seeking an edge in their career.

I have little doubt Sharapova deliberately cheated in order of improve her physical stamina.

Absolutely.

The Iga suspension is a joke if it is for December, when no important tournaments are scheduled. She should have been suspended in order for her to miss the AO, assuming the suspension was justified.

It does appear that she was protected just in time to participate in the Australian Open.

 

[LOBALOT]

A club is an association that you join, but it does not constitute a livelihood through competitions.

Where an association can cause an individual immense financial cost then natural justice usually operates.

Not true. They can simply form their own club and if they are #1 in the world any court of law would say they have a market should they choose to set their own rules allowing
doping.

Moreover, one can say by not abiding by the rules she and he prevented those that abided by the rules and did not dope from a livelihood.

They stole from the others in the club.

 

[Mustard]

Absolutely.

I don't get people who say this at all. Even if Sharapova took meldonium with the intention of improving her performance, it wasn't on the list of banned substances until 1 January 2016. She tested positive at the 2016 Australian Open, so just weeks after meldonium went onto the list of banned substances.

Should Djokovic have been banned in 2011 for using that CVAC oxygen machine? That machine was clearly used to give his fitness and physicality an edge, but there was nothing to say that it was against the rules. The list of banned substances exists for a reason, i.e. those are the substances that you cannot take, and you risk bans and a damaged reputation for getting caught using them.

 

[LOBALOT]

I don't get people who say this at all. Even if Sharapova took meldonium with the intention of improving her performance, it wasn't on the list of banned substances until 1 January 2016. She tested positive at the 2016 Australian Open, so just weeks after meldonium went onto the list of banned substances.

Should Djokovic have been banned in 2011 for using that CVAC oxygen machine? That machine was clearly used to give his fitness and physicality an edge, but there was nothing to say that it was against the rules. The list of banned substances exists for a reason, i.e. those are the substances that you cannot take, and you risk bans and a damaged reputation for getting caught using them.

Yes, she should have stopped taking it when the letter went out. She chose to test the system.

Yes, Joker should have been banned too.

Enough of all this craziness.

 

[Bartelby]

You may want to live in the Soviet Union, but I don't.

Not true. They can simply form their own club and if they are #1 in the world any court of law would say they have a market should they choose to set their own rules allowing
doping.

Moreover, one can say by not abiding by the rules she and he prevented those that abided by the rules and did not dope from a livelihood.

They stole from the others in the club.

 

[Mustard]

Yes, Joker should have been banned too.

On what grounds?

 

[LOBALOT]

On what grounds?

Was it not banned? If it wasn't I stand corrected. If it was then he should have been.

 

[LOBALOT]

You may want to live in the Soviet Union, but I don't.

I do not want to live in the Soviet Union or China for that mater for the very reason that there is a difference between the ATP/WTA membership and living in a country.

One can choose to join and/or leave a club. As we have seen if you are in the wrong country such as the ones noted you may never ever be able to leave your home let alone your country.

 

[Bartelby]

A club is a form of association but not all associations are clubs. You can not deprive a person of their livelihood without natural justice.

You can, for example, kick Brian Jones out of the Rolling Stones partnership if you get four votes out of five but he too probably got a big settlement.

I do not want to live in the Soviet Union or China for that mater for the very reason that there is a difference between the ATP/WTA membership and living in a country.

One can choose to join and/or leave a club. As we have seen if you are in the wrong country such as the ones noted you may never ever be able to leave your home let alone your country.

 

[vokazu]

Suddenly everyone's interested in the WTA.

Including you lol.

 

[LOBALOT]

A club is a form of association but not all associations are clubs. You can not deprive a person of their livelihood without natural justice.

You can, for example, kick Brian Jones out of the Rolling Stones partnership if you get four votes out of five but he too probably got a big settlement.

No court of law would say that the #1 player in the world signed up for club and then cheated and lied and was kick out and thus was deprived of a livelihood.

It is a free market and they can form their own association.

If they want to form the DIPTA ("Dopers International Professional Tennis Association") they can do so and no one is preventing them from doing so and they can sell tickets to that freak show if they want to and pocket all the proceeds if they want.

It would be interesting to see what those bylaws would look like.

Meanwhile who is arguing for all the players that these dopers ripped off by signing to agree to the bylaws, cheated, and then stole form their livelihood?

No court of law would buy your argument.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

One possible explanation is that she never took the melatonin just like Sinner never got massaged with Clostabol cream. Once they get tested at a time that they suspect might bust them, their entourage whips out some product contaminated with the exact PED they are taking. Maybe they all have people travel with them that have products contaminated with the PED they are taking so that they have plausible deniability if they get busted.

Even if that was the plan, there is no downside in listing melatonin on the doping declaration form.
She listed 14 others but excluded the melatonin. Not listing it makes her look more suspicious.
She claims she was tired and forgot. Possible, but it is more likely that it was an intentional omission. But why?

 

[Bartelby]

You are what they called in the Wild West "a hanging judge". We've moved on!

No court of law would say that the #1 player in the world signed up for club and then cheated and lied and was kick out and thus was deprived of a livelihood.

It is a free market and they can form their own association.

If they want to form the DIPTA ("Dopers International Professional Tennis Association") they can do so and no one is preventing them from doing so and they can sell tickets to that freak show if they want to and pocket all the proceeds if they want.

It would be interesting to see what those bylaws would look like.

Meanwhile who is arguing for all the players that these dopers ripped off by signing to agree to the bylaws, cheated, and then stole form their livelihood?

No court of law would buy your argument.

 

[LOBALOT]

You are what they called in the Wild West "a hanging judge". We've moved on!

In this sense I am. Thank you @Bartelby for the good discussion.

 

[Justice Underworld]

I don't get people who say this at all. Even if Sharapova took meldonium with the intention of improving her performance, it wasn't on the list of banned substances until 1 January 2016. She tested positive at the 2016 Australian Open, so just weeks after meldonium went onto the list of banned substances.

Should Djokovic have been banned in 2011 for using that CVAC oxygen machine? That machine was clearly used to give his fitness and physicality an edge, but there was nothing to say that it was against the rules. The list of banned substances exists for a reason, i.e. those are the substances that you cannot take, and you risk bans and a damaged reputation for getting caught using them.

Meldonium is a banned substance and if you took it after the fact that it was banned, you broke the rules. Hyperbaric chambers, cvac machines, and oxygen pods are still permitted by WADA so he didn't break any rules. One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[RSJfan]

Baloney. It was well known they were looking at this drug due to the benefit it had which is the very reason Sharapova was taking it. These are the same lame excuses we see being "thought up" just to work the system.

WADA put it on the monitoring list ONE YEAR before banning it but her agent Eisenbud and his small agency (IMG) missed it month after month.

That aside, Dopapova handled it like a gangsta. Yeh, I took it. For 10+ years. And also this carpet is fugly!

Respect the OG doper!

 

[messiahrobins]

Yikes…..

Tennis is finished now. That was the final nail in the coffin and anyone not realising that is naive. Cycling has never recovered after Armstrong and Athletics took 25 years to recover after Ben Johnson, and it wasnt until Usain Bolt came along that it began to become more mainstream.

 

[RSJfan]

Tennis is finished now. That was the final nail in the coffin and anyone not realising that is naive. Cycling has never recovered after Armstrong and Athletics took 25 years to recover after Ben Johnson, and it wasnt until Usain Bolt came along that it began to become more mainstream.

This is great news if it means less crowds and lower tournament ticket prices.

Tennis is Finnish.

 

[messiahrobins]

This is great news if it means less crowds and lower tournament ticket prices.

For real fans like us it isnt bad news lets put it that way. People who live and breathe tennis like many of us here do will keep watching, but 90% of fans at events, perhaps more are just casual fans really going for the outing and insta ops. They wont go if a sport is tainted as we saw in the 90s with athletics. Wimbledon wont be affected as that event now is just a social event anyway, the tennis a sideshow, which is why Djokovicss rant and goooodnight was the stuff of legend as he basically called out the toffs for that and doubled down on it later and he was right.

 

[Justice Underworld]

Tennis is finished now. That was the final nail in the coffin and anyone not realising that is naive. Cycling has never recovered after Armstrong and Athletics took 25 years to recover after Ben Johnson, and it wasnt until Usain Bolt came along that it began to become more mainstream.

Yes, we found out about two dopers this year who both won Slams. The most punishment was one got was a month suspension. What a joke tennis has become.

 

[Bartelby]

The ITIA is too close to the industry.

 

[messiahrobins]

Yes, we found out about two dopers this year who both won Slams. The most punishment was one got was a month suspension. What a joke tennis has become.

Piers Morgan agrees with you, and like him or loathe him he is pretty influential in terms of his reach to the masses. I think he used the word joke to describe tennis .

 

[Justice Underworld]

Piers Morgan agrees with you, and like him or loathe him he is pretty influential in terms of his reach to the masses. I think he used the word joke to describe tennis .

I don't follow him but it's going to become obvious to a lot of people who aren't believing in these fairytales they are selling to the public.