I'm a Pusher

M

midway12

New User
Not a drug pusher, but a tennis pusher. I admit it. I've never considered myself a pusher but after reading the description of what a pusher is, I really think I am. I feel bad about it, but should I? I've been made to feel bad about it.

I started playing tennis when I was in 9th grade just for fun. I played all kinds of sports but never tennis so I wanted to try it. I would hit around w/ some other friends who played all kinds of other sports but not tennis. I really liked it and then played for my high school in 11th and 12th grade. Then I didn't play again for another 18 years or so. I moved from the Northeast to FL a few years ago and got back into the sport. I have been playing in local flex leagues ever since and just love the sport and the 1 on 1 competition. I just turned 39 and tennis keeps me relatively fit.

I used to always try and kill the ball during matches and either had losing seasons, middle of the road, and sometimes a winning season. But things changed for me last season. I moved from the Tampa area to Orlando several months ago and joined a local flex league here a quarter into the season. The only way to get in was take the place of an injured player who bailed out. I took over his record which was 0-3...w/ very lopsided losses. My very first match I lost to a pusher...although in my mind, I never put pusher together with him for some reason...but he was. I won the first set 6-3. It's best out of 3 and thought I was on my way to winning the 2nd set when the guy just wouldn't miss. He didn't have any power to hurt me but he had good skills in terms of knowing where to hit the ball, how to hit it, and frustrating me. I lost the next two sets and the match. I was very frustrated and thought great, I just started and I'm already 0-4...this season is over. This player was very nice and kept telling me that he knows I'm better than him and that he felt lucky he got me the first match when I was rusty. (looking back, I don't believe that now but did at the time...he was a good player)

Anyway, something happened in that match...I started playing like that guy but not conciously. I won the next 14 matches straight, including 3 in the playoffs and 1 this season. I haven't lost a match since that first one. I noticed that what I was doing was not just mindlessly trying to smash every single ball, but take off some of the power (not all the time) and use placement, spins, angles, and anything to win. I get a thrill from smashing the ball but I get more of a thrill from winning. If I can get the win with some smashes mixed in here and there...the better. In the playoffs, I played a really arrogant guy who threw a temper tantrum and said the most f'd up stuff to me even DURING the match at the end...
 
Well it is what it is.. None of us here are pros and although everyone likes to think they are the most BA of the bunch.. well it prob just isn't the case.. I'm not going to say I "hate" pushers but I have a hard time dealing with them because I like a faster pace of tennis and when all I get is these big long lobs where I have to sit there and wait on them to fall back to earth I just get bored and try to end it or speed up the play and then what do you know, we step into error town and I the Mayor! ha
But anyways I wouldn't feel bad about your style of play.. Your playing for fun, whatever. Someone will have to adapt to your style of play just the same as you will have to adapt to someone else's..
Btw what league do you play in Orlando??
 
if you're having fun playing the style that's all that matters.

one of the things i like about tennis is that it keeps me in shape (training/competition) and being a pusher you definitely do a decent amount of running.

i'm not sure how old you are but as you age it's going to harder to play the style because of lack of mobility. it's always important to know when to attack the ball to end the point quickly.

good luck and have fun.
 
Marc The Shark said:
Well it is what it is.. None of us here are pros and although everyone likes to think they are the most BA of the bunch.. well it prob just isn't the case.. I'm not going to say I "hate" pushers but I have a hard time dealing with them because I like a faster pace of tennis and when all I get is these big long lobs where I have to sit there and wait on them to fall back to earth I just get bored and try to end it or speed up the play and then what do you know, we step into error town and I the Mayor! ha
But anyways I wouldn't feel bad about your style of play.. Your playing for fun, whatever. Someone will have to adapt to your style of play just the same as you will have to adapt to someone else's..
Btw what league do you play in Orlando??
Click to expand...

If a pusher hits big long lobs, I am not a pusher. That wasn't the definition I read. I don't lob...every now and then I'll hit a top spin lob if my opponent comes into the net or I'll go for a passing shot. But I don't always hit w/ max power...I hit with 75% power for a bit, then mix in full power to change pace and not let the person get into a rhythm. It also helps me make less unforced errors when I'm hitting w/ 75% power. I usually hit the ball roughly the same speed my opponent hits it. It's kind of interesting, a couple of the players act like I'm not hitting w/ much pace and that's why I won yet they weren't hitting the ball w/ any more pace than I was. So are they pushers? They have a racquet in their hand like I do...no one has any more advantage...if I hit light then a quality player should be able to just kill me....but they don't. In the season I played some players who looked relatively new to the game and would hit pretty light balls and I would then try to take advantage of it and hit some hard topspin inside out shots followed by cross court. If they hit a light short ball, which they did a lot, I would jump on them trying to take them at their apex with hard topspin... why don't these supperior players do that to me if I have no pace? The biggest pushing part of my game is my backhand slices and side spins. I hit some top spins and flat hits, but a good majority of my back hands are slices and side spins because they're easy to me, I'm less prone to unforced errors with them and they really mess up my opponent.

I'm obviously not the greatest player and I have many limitations...but the same goes to some of these arrogant hitters that I beat. They just think they're way better than they are. To me, if you're better than me...you should be able to beat me. Don't start blaming things...you have a racquet in your hand like I do...I'm old and out of shape....if you're better you should just beat me. Use your brain and figure out a way. If you have better skills and also have a good brain, you should win. I was playing one guy who before me, had only lost to that guy who beat me in my first match. He asked me what I thought of him and I said he was very consistent and made it very hard on me...tough to beat. Then, this guy starts slaming him as a pusher saying he doesn't have any fun playing agaisnt him, doesn't want to play against him anymore, etc... and I'm thinking what the hell is up w/ this guy.... That pusher beat me fair and square w/o cheating. I'm not going to act like I'm better than him and the only reason he beat me was b/c of this or that... The funny thing is, we had some players in this division that hit way softer than the guy he was calling a pusher yet he wasn't talking about them. And the reason?? B/c he BEAT those other guys but LOST to the so called pusher. He wasn't telling me how he hated playing those players who hit very weakly that he beat...only the guy who beat him. I guarantee you he was saying the same thing about me after I beat him. I play in the Lake Cane league, btw.
 
Isnt that what tennis is all about? I mean, smart tennis wins. Even at the pro levels, thought their smart tennis is much more powerful than ours, its still smart tennis, theyre not hitting 100% power all the time believe it or not.....
If you wanna have fun, blast the ball everytime and play for winners and pretty shots; If you wanna win, play smart. I have never played a tournament where the opponent wanted to hit every ball hard and deep. Or if I did, Im sure I won the match thanks to his 1-6 winners to error ratio......
I love hitting hard, having drills with lots of pace, but that hardly happens on competitive matches. Everyone wants to win. Keep on pushing!
 
Hey Midway12, what level is this league? I'm also in Orlando but play at OTC mostly, Lake Cane occasionally, no leagues though...
 
midway12 said:
Not a drug pusher, but a tennis pusher. I admit it. I've never considered myself a pusher but after reading the description of what a pusher is, I really think I am. I feel bad about it, but should I? I've been made to feel bad about it.

I started playing tennis when I was in 9th grade just for fun. I played all kinds of sports but never tennis so I wanted to try it. I would hit around w/ some other friends who played all kinds of other sports but not tennis. I really liked it and then played for my high school in 11th and 12th grade. Then I didn't play again for another 18 years or so. I moved from the Northeast to FL a few years ago and got back into the sport. I have been playing in local flex leagues ever since and just love the sport and the 1 on 1 competition. I just turned 39 and tennis keeps me relatively fit.

I used to always try and kill the ball during matches and either had losing seasons, middle of the road, and sometimes a winning season. But things changed for me last season. I moved from the Tampa area to Orlando several months ago and joined a local flex league here a quarter into the season. The only way to get in was take the place of an injured player who bailed out. I took over his record which was 0-3...w/ very lopsided losses. My very first match I lost to a pusher...although in my mind, I never put pusher together with him for some reason...but he was. I won the first set 6-3. It's best out of 3 and thought I was on my way to winning the 2nd set when the guy just wouldn't miss. He didn't have any power to hurt me but he had good skills in terms of knowing where to hit the ball, how to hit it, and frustrating me. I lost the next two sets and the match. I was very frustrated and thought great, I just started and I'm already 0-4...this season is over. This player was very nice and kept telling me that he knows I'm better than him and that he felt lucky he got me the first match when I was rusty. (looking back, I don't believe that now but did at the time...he was a good player)

Anyway, something happened in that match...I started playing like that guy but not conciously. I won the next 14 matches straight, including 3 in the playoffs and 1 this season. I haven't lost a match since that first one. I noticed that what I was doing was not just mindlessly trying to smash every single ball, but take off some of the power (not all the time) and use placement, spins, angles, and anything to win. I get a thrill from smashing the ball but I get more of a thrill from winning. If I can get the win with some smashes mixed in here and there...the better. In the playoffs, I played a really arrogant guy who threw a temper tantrum and said the most f'd up stuff to me even DURING the match at the end...
Click to expand...

"Just win, Baby": Al Davis.

There is no shame in playing high percentage tennis. Luckily for you, you have played both high and low percentage tennis and IMO you are actually more of a counterpuncher, in the sense that you rip a winner now and then when you can. None of us are cookie cut out single-style folks, we are all blends of styles.
 
I'm guessing that is an MG Tennis league here in Orlando judging by the number of matches he played.

Oops. I just saw at the very end that the league was Lake Cane which is MG Tennis.
 
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It means you are evil and you will burn for eternity in hell fire...but at least you'll get a nice workout along the way there. :-)
 
Well since there are a few Orlando people I just want to tell everyone I am working with someone to bring a better league in Orlando. sponsored by tennis warehouse. If you are interested to get more info as it become available shoot me an email at mbelanger@earthlink.net
Hope it's ok that I throw in a shameless plug like that :)
 
Marc,

I actually ran my own league a few years ago and I recently helped another area pro add features to his league website. So I used to be a "league" guy. The best club level players in the area play at OTC, so I just play guys I know up there now. If it looks promising, I might chip in on web development if you need it. Sorry for the thread hijacking :)
 
mikeler said:
I'm guessing that is an MG Tennis league here in Orlando judging by the number of matches he played.

Oops. I just saw at the very end that the league was Lake Cane which is MG Tennis.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm in the MG Tennis League for Lake Cane. I like it because I can get a lot of singles matches in whenever I want, all with different players who have different styles. It's competitive which I like and they have a playoff system set up. The website is not nearly as good as the KSwiss League/Ultimate Tennis that I was in when I lived in St. Petersburg, but I'm just glad they have a flex tennis league out here. I love the Ultimate Tennis website that shows the historical arhives of prior matches for each player with scores...and I love their playoff bracket that looks just like any tourney bracket you would see in the pro grand slams.
 
lodeen said:
Hey Midway12, what level is this league? I'm also in Orlando but play at OTC mostly, Lake Cane occasionally, no leagues though...
Click to expand...

They have 4 divisions:

A+
A1
B1
B2

I'm in the A1...if I remember correctly, the registration form had the break down of what the rough NTRP range for each division would be but I don't remember them. I think A1 is 4-4.5
 
pabletion said:
Isnt that what tennis is all about? I mean, smart tennis wins. Even at the pro levels, thought their smart tennis is much more powerful than ours, its still smart tennis, theyre not hitting 100% power all the time believe it or not.....
If you wanna have fun, blast the ball everytime and play for winners and pretty shots; If you wanna win, play smart. I have never played a tournament where the opponent wanted to hit every ball hard and deep. Or if I did, Im sure I won the match thanks to his 1-6 winners to error ratio......
I love hitting hard, having drills with lots of pace, but that hardly happens on competitive matches. Everyone wants to win. Keep on pushing!
Click to expand...

Thanks pabletion. I agree with you...most people win the games by the other person's misses and errors, not by your winners...even at the pro level. I read somewhere that there are hitters and players...players have more variety to their games where the hitters just keep hitting hard. The hitters lose a lot but look better losing. I just really enjoy winning. The hitters look good in warm ups (as do I) but it's a different story when they actually play a game...they hit errors all over the place. That's what I used to do.

The 2 people that complained about me after the match were definitely hitters. And because they wanted to just hit the ball really hard every time, I knew that if I could just get them moving and out of rhythm a little, I'd have success against them. They want the game to be really easy for them...they want you to consistently hit nice hard pace with no spin directly to their forehand where the ball bounces right up in to their strike zone and they don't have to move their feet much. But it's so easy to mess their contact point up. Because they're lazy and don't want to move their feet, I mix some junk in and hit some slices and side spins that makes their contact points off. Then when they think they've got those shots down, I'll hit some heavy top spins and flat balls at them so they can never get comfortable. I'll try to move them all around the court, up/back, left/right... Then I try to sneak in and take their hits in the air and put it away. They get pissed at me because they don't think it's fun to play me but I don't want to be fun to play in a league...I don't want them to feel comfortable, I want to win. If I'm just hitting the ball around, fine...but in a match, no. If I'm playing a friend outside the league I'll actually try to keep hitting solid shots right to them to have some nice solid rallies, but if I want to win I don't want to do that. Why do these league players think I should feel obligated to make the game as comfortable for them as possible? It's easier for me if the ball is coming at he hard as well...but I try to reserve my hard hits for when I see an opportunity to put it away down the line or cross court, when I see them out of position, to change up the pace, or when they come to the net. I don't hit any forehand slices unless it's defensive and I have to reach for the ball, or to block back a a really hard first serve.
 
Ummmmm. . . Sorry to burst your bubble, but the kind of play you describe, is not a pusher, that is an intelligent tennis player.

J
 
midway12 said:
Thanks pabletion. I agree with you...most people win the games by the other person's misses and errors, not by your winners...even at the pro level. I read somewhere that there are hitters and players...players have more variety to their games where the hitters just keep hitting hard. The hitters lose a lot but look better losing. I just really enjoy winning. The hitters look good in warm ups (as do I) but it's a different story when they actually play a game...they hit errors all over the place. That's what I used to do.

The 2 people that complained about me after the match were definitely hitters. And because they wanted to just hit the ball really hard every time, I knew that if I could just get them moving and out of rhythm a little, I'd have success against them. They want the game to be really easy for them...they want you to consistently hit nice hard pace with no spin directly to their forehand where the ball bounces right up in to their strike zone and they don't have to move their feet much. But it's so easy to mess their contact point up. Because they're lazy and don't want to move their feet, I mix some junk in and hit some slices and side spins that makes their contact points off. Then when they think they've got those shots down, I'll hit some heavy top spins and flat balls at them so they can never get comfortable. I'll try to move them all around the court, up/back, left/right... Then I try to sneak in and take their hits in the air and put it away. They get pissed at me because they don't think it's fun to play me but I don't want to be fun to play in a league...I don't want them to feel comfortable, I want to win. If I'm just hitting the ball around, fine...but in a match, no. If I'm playing a friend outside the league I'll actually try to keep hitting solid shots right to them to have some nice solid rallies, but if I want to win I don't want to do that. Why do these league players think I should feel obligated to make the game as comfortable for them as possible? It's easier for me if the ball is coming at he hard as well...but I try to reserve my hard hits for when I see an opportunity to put it away down the line or cross court, when I see them out of position, to change up the pace, or when they come to the net. I don't hit any forehand slices unless it's defensive and I have to reach for the ball, or to block back a a really hard first serve.
Click to expand...

J011yroger said:
Ummmmm. . . Sorry to burst your bubble, but the kind of play you describe, is not a pusher, that is an intelligent tennis player.

J
Click to expand...

I think the fact that I hit a ton of backhand slices might make me a pusher. Also, I'm content on hitting as many 75% power shots up the middle as necessary to take away their angles and to wait for either their unforced error or bad shot from them that gives me an opportunity to try and do something extra with it. I sometimes feel that I can hit them forever until he misses because I'm taking power off and because as the point drags on, my brain tells me that I've lasted in the point this long so don't make it all for nothing. If I'm running around I won't last as long in a point though because I'm not in the shape I used to be in.

This one guy I beat in the semi finals last season 6-3, 6-3 (who I was being nothing but nice to) had the temper tantrum, threw his racquet, and started angrily saying at the end of the match that his little niece hits harder than me. I guess he would play better against his niece then b/c she hits harder and that's what he likes. But he wasn't playing his niece, he had to play me so he needs to figure a way to adjust to my softer than his niece's hits. He killed some of the lower level players in our division and I know they have very soft shots so somehow he figured a way out to beat them. But hey, if this is what he has to say to make him feel better about himself, so beit.
 
I played the Lake Cane 4.5 league twice a few years ago. It was pretty good, but the website was way worse than what they have now. You never knew who the leaders were. I made it to the finals both times and lost. One of the guys I lost to I usually beat now which is frustrating :evil:. The other guy I lost to I tried to outhit him the first 3 times we played which was stupid. He was bigger, more athletic and younger than me. I never got close to winning a set off him playing that style. The last 2 times we played, I figured out just to push against him and beat him in straight sets both times. He stopped calling me after that...:twisted:
 
I just had a reality check. After not losing one set in the last 14 matches, I lost 6-0, 6-1 today. This guy was totally out of my league for sure. I couldn't do anything I wanted to because he hit so hard with such great placement. And he was consistent on top of it. I didn't even have a chance to try and mess the guy up b/c I was hitting errors all over the place. Intuitively, I knew I couldn't take power off b/c he was so good he'd take advantage of it. It was just a good old fashioned behind the wood shed beat down.

One thing I loved about his forehands was that he hit such heavy penetrating shots. The ball would just barely clear the net and when his shots hit the ground hard, they would just take off even harder. His topspins came straight over the ball so they didn't bounce up and forward but seemed like they skided on the ground and picked up speed forward while staying low. When I would hit his shots, it felt like it wasn't a tennis ball I was hitting, but a brick. The fact that he could do this consistently over and over again w/ perfect placement is amazing. This guy was the best player I think I've ever played against.
 
I played the guy who beat you in the league a few years ago if his initials are SM. I think I killed him. Older guy right?
 
mikeler said:
I played the guy who beat you in the league a few years ago if his initials are SM. I think I killed him. Older guy right?
Click to expand...

That's pretty funny...then YOU would be the best player I ever played against if I played you. Yes, that's the guy who destroyed me. Maybe he's playing better now than in years past, or that you're really good b/c I can't see many people killing him as you did. Maybe he wouldn't have played as awesome if I played better, who knows. I'm not sure how old he is but I'm 39 and he seems like he's fitter than me. I think he's in his mid 40's maybe? He told me he picked the sport up around the age of 35 (salt on wounds). He got lessons out of the gates so he never developed any improper mechanics and muscle memory that he had to reprogram. I wish I did that.

Anyway, I really suck. I shouldn't have been on the same court as him. It was both embarrassing and frustrating for me. He could do anything he wanted to do...I played absolutely horrible...couldn't hit the ball to save my life...but he's the one that made me play horrible so all props to him. Also, I think that I was out of it mentally just from the warm ups and the beginning of the match because right away, my brain told me this guy is way better than me and then that was the result. I wish I could be that good, or get that good.
 
midway12 said:
That's pretty funny...then YOU would be the best player I ever played against if I played you. Yes, that's the guy who destroyed me. Maybe he's playing better now than in years past, or that you're really good b/c I can't see many people killing him as you did. Maybe he wouldn't have played as awesome if I played better, who knows. I'm not sure how old he is but I'm 39 and he seems like he's fitter than me. I think he's in his mid 40's maybe? He told me he picked the sport up around the age of 35 (salt on wounds). He got lessons out of the gates so he never developed any improper mechanics and muscle memory that he had to reprogram. I wish I did that.

Anyway, I really suck. I shouldn't have been on the same court as him. It was both embarrassing and frustrating for me. He could do anything he wanted to do...I played absolutely horrible...couldn't hit the ball to save my life...but he's the one that made me play horrible so all props to him. Also, I think that I was out of it mentally just from the warm ups and the beginning of the match because right away, my brain told me this guy is way better than me and then that was the result. I wish I could be that good, or get that good.
Click to expand...


If he started at 35, then it is entirely possible he is much better than 3 years ago when I played him. I remember he hit pretty hard and the first few games were a battle. He just started hitting balls long after that. I hit with a ton of topspin, so that could also be a factor with him making errors. Is there a prize for winning the league? Back when I played it the winner got a $150 gift card to the pro shop and 2nd place got a $50 gift card.
 
mikeler said:
If he started at 35, then it is entirely possible he is much better than 3 years ago when I played him. I remember he hit pretty hard and the first few games were a battle. He just started hitting balls long after that. I hit with a ton of topspin, so that could also be a factor with him making errors. Is there a prize for winning the league? Back when I played it the winner got a $150 gift card to the pro shop and 2nd place got a $50 gift card.
Click to expand...

I wish we still got those prizes. The 1st place winner gets only a trophy. I don't think the 2nd place gets anything. It costs $55 to join and that covers a league tshirt we get and the website, plus the organizng of everything.
 
midway12 said:
I just had a reality check.
Click to expand...

So what? You cought a beating. It happens to all of us, these things build character. You take a shot, you spit out some blood and a couple of teeth and keep moving forward.

One loss doesn't negate your plan, your strategy, or the success you have been having.

J
 
J011yroger said:
So what? You cought a beating. It happens to all of us, these things build character. You take a shot, you spit out some blood and a couple of teeth and keep moving forward.

One loss doesn't negate your plan, your strategy, or the success you have been having.

J
Click to expand...

right. Jolly next in line to give u a beating. :)
 
You are a patient counterpuncher, not a pusher. A pusher hits the ball over the net and hopes the other guy makes a mistake, because he has no other plan for winning a point. If them other guy makes more mistakes than winners, the pusher wins. You are not doing that. You are patiently waiting for the chance to end the point, instead of trying to end it early.
 
midway12 said:
That's pretty funny...then YOU would be the best player I ever played against if I played you. Yes, that's the guy who destroyed me. Maybe he's playing better now than in years past, or that you're really good b/c I can't see many people killing him as you did. Maybe he wouldn't have played as awesome if I played better, who knows. I'm not sure how old he is but I'm 39 and he seems like he's fitter than me. I think he's in his mid 40's maybe? He told me he picked the sport up around the age of 35 (salt on wounds). He got lessons out of the gates so he never developed any improper mechanics and muscle memory that he had to reprogram. I wish I did that.

Anyway, I really suck. I shouldn't have been on the same court as him. It was both embarrassing and frustrating for me. He could do anything he wanted to do...I played absolutely horrible...couldn't hit the ball to save my life...but he's the one that made me play horrible so all props to him. Also, I think that I was out of it mentally just from the warm ups and the beginning of the match because right away, my brain told me this guy is way better than me and then that was the result. I wish I could be that good, or get that good.
Click to expand...
Well, as the saying goes - you learn more from defeat than in victory(but i know, it still sucks to lose:!)
Start utilizing parts of this guy's game that you like and practice hard. I go way out of my way to play with better people. I do get thumped occasionally but when I do go back to playing wuth my usual opponents, it seems a whole lot easier!
 
midway12 said:
That's pretty funny...then YOU would be the best player I ever played against if I played you. Yes, that's the guy who destroyed me. Maybe he's playing better now than in years past, or that you're really good b/c I can't see many people killing him as you did. Maybe he wouldn't have played as awesome if I played better, who knows. I'm not sure how old he is but I'm 39 and he seems like he's fitter than me. I think he's in his mid 40's maybe? He told me he picked the sport up around the age of 35 (salt on wounds). He got lessons out of the gates so he never developed any improper mechanics and muscle memory that he had to reprogram. I wish I did that.

Anyway, I really suck. I shouldn't have been on the same court as him. It was both embarrassing and frustrating for me. He could do anything he wanted to do...I played absolutely horrible...couldn't hit the ball to save my life...but he's the one that made me play horrible so all props to him. Also, I think that I was out of it mentally just from the warm ups and the beginning of the match because right away, my brain told me this guy is way better than me and then that was the result. I wish I could be that good, or get that good.
Click to expand...
Well, as the saying goes - you learn more from defeat than in victory(but i know, it still sucks to lose:)!)
Start utilizing parts of this guy's game that you like and practice hard. I go way out of my way to play with better people now. I do get thumped occasionally but when I do go back to playing with my usual opponents, it seems a whole lot easier!
 
midway12 said:
I wish we still got those prizes. The 1st place winner gets only a trophy. I don't think the 2nd place gets anything. It costs $55 to join and that covers a league tshirt we get and the website, plus the organizng of everything.
Click to expand...


The league was $50 when I played it. That is pretty high IMO. They would only give us an hour of free court time per match when I played which was absurd. If you don't mind traveling all over town, try the Jeff Davis league:

http://www.jdtennis.com
 
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