I'm having trouble customizing my racquet!

[Nobuhiko]

Hi, I'm new to the forum, and I'm really confused about customizing a tennis racquet. I read through the customizing a raqcuet page Tennis-Warehouse has and searched all the customizing racquet threads in this forum. I use a Wilson nPro Open, I liked how it has alot of spin, but hated the stability in the upper hoop. So I started looking up ways the increase stability and the sweetspot. But when I started putting lead on to the 3 and 9 o'clock areas of the racquet it felt very head heavy, by the way i put 2.5g of lead to each area which is a total of 5g. Then my coach recommends balancing it out by placing the same amount of lead on the 6 o'clock area of the racquet, I ran out of lead so I only placed 2g. The problem is that the racquet feels pretty stable for me, but its just so head heavy, i lost my ability to volley, and I just miss the head light feel. So here's the stock weight of the raqcuet and my new customized weight. I also don't want to take out the lead because when I tried this morning, the paint starting peeling off from the racquet *Curse those cruddy Wilson Paintjobs* So rather try fixing my problem without removing the lead tape on the 3 and 9 o'clock. Thanks in advance.

Stock: 315g
Customized: 322g

 

[zapvor]

hey

i dont know about custumizing a racket, but yea HL is much better than HH, i agree you should fix that. also, what does Nobuhiko mean?

 

[s.sharm01]

i mean the added weight is gonna make it harder to volley. i don't know if it should be that bad considering you only added 5-7 grams. but u can add some lead to the bud of the racquet which will give u the hl feel again. But the added weight will take some getting used to.

 

[Amone]

I'd suggest getting another packet of elad, removing your grip, and just adding the whole thing to the buttcap, then putting the grip back on. That should more-or-less fix the problem.

 

[Nobuhiko]

It's a Japanese Name, Nobu means Faith, and hiko means prince. My japanese friend gave me this name, i understand why she gave me the Nobu part, but the hiko...well I guess she had a crush on me. But ya my racquet is sort of head heavy or maybe balanced, I'm really confuse about it.:sad:

 

[Nobuhiko]

Well, I tried opening the buttcap, but this is a nPro Open, there the nFoam crap in it. Should I get some more lead tape and fold it to fit on the buttcap door? Also I'm pretty used to the weight, before I got the nPro Open, I used my dad's nSix-One Team, wonderful racquet, but I like the bigger head, and spin with the nPro Open.

Ohhh, Now I understand what you mean Amone, but I don't have the cash on me though...so I'll probably wait until I get my pay check this friday, buy the lead and ask my coach to re-grip my racquet then. But do you think there maybe another way, that isn't costly. And did you have this sort of problem before, I'm just curious.

 

[Amone]

Hmm... Well, usually I don't consider a pack of lead costly, but let's see what's available... at your local Meijer's or Wal-Mart you should be able to get a small package of fishing weights. It should cost you roughly 98 cents, plus tax. Get the 1/2 oz ones. Tape 2 right on to the end of the butt, you'll barely feel it down there. Use duct tape, cause they'll probably come off relatively easy with anything else. It will be ugly, but that should hold you over till you get enough money to get a 18 gram pack of tape from a local sporting goods store.

 

[zapvor]

ah thanks. i knew hime, i should have learned hiko too haha.

but why do you want a bigger head? that limits manuerability. and i like to think its the mechanics that most determine amount of spin, not string pattern. at least that's what my coach has taught me.

EDIT: how long have you been playing?

 

[Amone]

ah thanks. i knew hime, i should have learned hiko too haha.

but why do you want a bigger head? that limits manuerability. and i like to think its the mechanics that most determine amount of spin, not string pattern. at least that's what my coach has taught me.

EDIT: how long have you been playing?

Well, you're half wrong on both points. All wrong on the first, but only half on the second.

1) Headsize and maneuverability have nothing to do with one another. I could make you a racquet with a 65 si headsize which is unbelievably un-maneuverable, where I'm sure with some work I could make a 125 si player's racquet.

2) Mechanics are the most important thing in producing topspin. However, other factors do get involved. For instance, an extended length racquet with a proper topspin form will get more spin than with a standard length one. This is simple physics; if you strike the ball on the same location in the head, it's further away from the point of rotation, hence moving faster, hence creating more spin. String pattern is also a factor. It is a reletively minute factor, but let me tell you from experience, a tighter pattern gets less spin. One person I know uses a Tour10 VEngine MP, 16*19 instead of 18*20. There was a world of difference in the spin I created with it.

 

[Nobuhiko]

Thanks again Amone, I know that lead isn't costly, its just that buying a new replacement grip and the lead from the site plus shipping, and my coach charges me like 10 dollars for labor whenever he does a string job or replacement grip job, that's what I meant when I said costly. Yea and I know, the 18 x 20 pattern on my dad's nSix-One is really accurate, but I'm a spinny person, so I like the nPro Open just alittle bit more because of that. I'm probably gonna demo more frames if I can't fix my nPro Open the way I want it to be. Also I have a Yonex RDX500 recently as a christmas gift, but since its been windy, rainy, and sometimes snowy in Nevada. I havn't had the chance to use it.

Also, I've been playing roughly around 4 years, 2 years I was just messing around with an n6 OS, but then went competitive and joined my High School's team. We made it into state this year, but lost in the first round. Those kids from Las Vegas are really skilled players. Also I'm probably roughly around the 3.5 going to 4.0 stage in my ranking.

 

[Amone]

Thanks again Amone, I know that lead isn't costly, its just that buying a new replacement grip and the lead from the site plus shipping, and my coach charges me like 10 dollars for labor whenever he does a string job or replacement grip job, that's what I meant when I said costly. Yea and I know, the 18 x 20 pattern on my dad's nSix-One is really accurate, but I'm a spinny person, so I like the nPro Open just alittle bit more because of that. I'm probably gonna try and demo more frames if I can fix my nPro Open the way I want it to be. Also I have a Yonex RDX500 recently as a christmas gift, but since its been windy, rainy, and sometimes snowy in Nevada. I havn't had the chance to use it.

Oh, I totally understand the string pattern issue; I dumped my DNX recently (just bought the new racquet today, waiting for it to be strung ) for that reason.

Okay, I understand then. The plomb-and-duct-tape solution should work for the limited time before you can get it done properly. Like I said, it will look... how do you say, 'ghetto fabulous,' but it'll get the job done.

 

[Nobuhiko]

Thanks again Amone, I'm going to try it out the "ghetto rigged" method you just mention...I sort of wished my older brother didn't take my car today. Also I remembered, the Big 5's store has the replacement grip I needed, and I can probably asked them to order the lead tape.

 

[Amone]

They might just have some. Just a Gamma pack, I know my local Dick's does.

 

[zapvor]

Well, you're half wrong on both points. All wrong on the first, but only half on the second.

1) Headsize and maneuverability have nothing to do with one another. I could make you a racquet with a 65 si headsize which is unbelievably un-maneuverable, where I'm sure with some work I could make a 125 si player's racquet.

2) Mechanics are the most important thing in producing topspin. However, other factors do get involved. For instance, an extended length racquet with a proper topspin form will get more spin than with a standard length one. This is simple physics; if you strike the ball on the same location in the head, it's further away from the point of rotation, hence moving faster, hence creating more spin. String pattern is also a factor. It is a reletively minute factor, but let me tell you from experience, a tighter pattern gets less spin. One person I know uses a Tour10 VEngine MP, 16*19 instead of 18*20. There was a world of difference in the spin I created with it.

1.you are right. i didnt realize how long Nobuhiko had been playing so i was generalizing. but it is true as rule of thumb the bigger the head the harder to maneuver. plain physics.

2. you are right again, but once again mechanics> string pattern. of course 16x18 will have more potential given than 18x20, but give 18x20 to pro and 16x18 to noob and see who generates more spin. and yes the rotational physics and all that is correct but once again i was generalizing. hence asking him how long he has been playing. thanks for clarifying though.

 

[jace112]

Bigger headsizes may also have higher twistweight, hence less maneuverability. I've experienced that with a LM Rad OS.

 

[Amone]

Bigger headsizes may also have higher twistweight, hence less maneuverability. I've experienced that with a LM Rad OS.

Twistwent =/= maneuverability. I don't know where you guys are getting this stuff, but it's false. Twistweight is a measure of resistance to rotation along the axial plane (lengthwise)... you shouldn't be trying to spin your racquet that way unless you're twiddling it between points. It is, however, a great measure of stability on off-centre hits.

 

[Flexxed]

Amone is right, if you want stability you have to find a way to maximize the twist weight without increasing the swing weight too much. you might want to try adding less than 5g of lead but adding it to the outside of the frame rather than inside. it's kind of weird but you might be able to keep the stability you got with 5g but with a lower swingweight

 

[NoBadMojo]

I suggest you not use any lead and that you not pay any attention to the people on this forum who preach lead unlkess you are a 5.0 player or so looking for a very subtle edge. If your racquet feels unstable that is because you are miss hitting. This problem is cured by becoming a better player and miss hitting less or going out and buying a racquet with a larger headsize/sweetspot. What happened to you is very classic......
-people cant find the sweetspot so they declare a racquet unstable
-they add lead to 3 and 9 on the frame thinking it will make the frame more stable. probem is, a little lead doent really do much for the stability. so now they have lost racquethead speed and can no longer spin the ball becayse they cant swing the racquethead through fast anymore. now they misshit even more because their racquet isnt maneuverable enough and their racquet becomes even more unstable.
All this talk in the forum about leading and what the pro's use is just nuts and hurts far more people than it helps IMO.

 

[Amone]

I suggest you not use any lead and that you not pay any attention to the people on this forum who preach lead unlkess you are a 5.0 player or so looking for a very subtle edge. If your racquet feels unstable that is because you are miss hitting. This problem is cured by becoming a better player and miss hitting less or going out and buying a racquet with a larger headsize/sweetspot. What happened to you is very classic......
-people cant find the sweetspot so they declare a racquet unstable
-they add lead to 3 and 9 on the frame thinking it will make the frame more stable. probem is, a little lead doent really do much for the stability. so now they have lost racquethead speed and can no longer spin the ball becayse they cant swing the racquethead through fast anymore. now they misshit even more because their racquet isnt maneuverable enough and their racquet becomes even more unstable.
All this talk in the forum about leading and what the pro's use is just nuts and hurts far more people than it helps IMO.

You know, NBM, I tend to think that you're wrong, but your points are grounded solidly in logic. Problem is, I switched away from my Volkl when I realised that my lead was the only thing holding it up. I had 36 grams of lead, over an ounce, added at approximately the 6:00, and when I took it off because of the experience I had with a Tour10 VEngine stock, to see if my racquet was not as good because of the tape, I stopped getting anything out of it. I stopped liking tennis for that time. I'd walk off the court, and slam my racquet into the ground furiously. Perhaps, I'm not a good enough player to use it, but I was with lead tape on it?? This is nonsensical. So, perhaps yours is logic and mine anecdotal, but that is why I don't have a problem with all these people asking for help with their lead taping, and why I do have a problem with you telling them that it's ill-advised to do anything but play stock.

 

[NoBadMojo]

You know, NBM, I tend to think that you're wrong, but your points are grounded solidly in logic. Problem is, I switched away from my Volkl when I realised that my lead was the only thing holding it up. I had 36 grams of lead, over an ounce, added at approximately the 6:00, and when I took it off because of the experience I had with a Tour10 VEngine stock, to see if my racquet was not as good because of the tape, I stopped getting anything out of it. I stopped liking tennis for that time. I'd walk off the court, and slam my racquet into the ground furiously. Perhaps, I'm not a good enough player to use it, but I was with lead tape on it?? This is nonsensical. So, perhaps yours is logic and mine anecdotal, but that is why I don't have a problem with all these people asking for help with their lead taping, and why I do have a problem with you telling them that it's ill-advised to do anything but play stock.

after reading this post and your previous posts where you launched cruel personal attacks on me, i've used my logic to determine that you've got problems you should consider doing something about.

 

[Amone]

after reading this post and your previous posts where you launched cruel personal attacks on me, i've used my logic to determine that you've got problems you should consider doing something about.

My thyroid exam is at two this afternoon, thanks for inquiring. Actually, I'm quite afraid... I've got a deathly fear of needles. And you're right, I was out of line then. I apologize.

 

[rocket]

I had 36 grams of lead, over an ounce, added at approximately the 6:00, and when I took it off because of the experience I had with a Tour10 VEngine stock, to see if my racquet was not as good because of the tape, I stopped getting anything out of it. I stopped liking tennis for that time. I'd walk off the court, and slam my racquet into the ground furiously. Perhaps, I'm not a good enough player to use it, but I was with lead tape on it?? This is nonsensical.

You must be a very, very flat hitter and have a very, very short swing!

 

[Amone]

No, actually, I just started getting into the topspin game at that time. That's what I'd liked so much about the VEngine was it's stock spin potential. However, I am a serve-and-volleyer... most days... so yeah, it's pretty flat.

 

[SFrazeur]

Nobuhiko, the sweet spot on the nPro Open is located just a about center on the string bed if not a modicum lower, you will not find much stability in the upper hoop because it was not designed to be there. Using lead to expand the sweet spot is one thing, but trying to change the location of the sweet spot is another, and is asking too much from the racquet. I would suggest spending more time on stroke reduction, to have better consistency, with hitting the sweet spot as is.

NBMJ, I would agree with you that most should leave the lead alone. In the beginner's stage they would be better served in learning to adjust to a different frame. For lack of a better phrase, it builds character.

Moreover, I think that too many people try to turn their racquet into another racquet entirely; they try and change the balance too much one way of the other or they try to turn their tweener into "players" racquet. The only reason I use lead is to just make a racquet heavier.

 

[NoBadMojo]

My thyroid exam is at two this afternoon, thanks for inquiring. Actually, I'm quite afraid... I've got a deathly fear of needles. And you're right, I was out of line then. I apologize.

apology accepted, but we've done this dance before. dont know if you are just busting my balls about your thyroid test, but if you are serious about it, then good luck with that.

 

[jace112]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jace112
Bigger headsizes may also have higher twistweight, hence less maneuverability. I've experienced that with a LM Rad OS.

Twistwent =/= maneuverability. I don't know where you guys are getting this stuff, but it's false. Twistweight is a measure of resistance to rotation along the axial plane (lengthwise)... you shouldn't be trying to spin your racquet that way unless you're twiddling it between points. It is, however, a great measure of stability on off-centre hits.

#1 point:
Excuse me if my mothertongue is not english. I thought that *may also have* meant that it is not compulsory. I'll try to improve, I promise.

#2 point:
I said *I've experienced* the lack of maneuverability with my Rad OS. No debate here, just my own opinion. You can ask other OS users.

#3 point:
Thank you, I know what a moment of inertia is. But I'm not sure that you understand that when you play tennis the frame moves far away from all the theoretical axes! So yes, the moment of inertia TW (axe: the length of the racquet) and of course the SW are part of the overall maneuverability. At the net, TW can be very important.

#4 point:
You're right, TW *is, however, a great measure of stability on off-centre hits.*

 

[Amone]

apology accepted, but we've done this dance before. dont know if you are just busting my balls about your thyroid test, but if you are serious about it, then good luck with that.

Nope, serious. Went fine, though, results should be in... uhh.... well, my doctor didn't tell me, and I didnt ask.

@Jace:

I don't really feel compelled to reply to any of the points with the exception of number 3. My reply is this:

You're right, how silly of me. Especially on shots below the net. I guess I wasn't thinking, I suppose, because that example is exactly correct.

@Frazeur:

I do it for an entirely different, and slightly emberassing reason; I just get some psychological pleasure out of tweaking my equipment. No matter what I'm doing, I can't help myself, to be honest. I have to modify it, otherwise I lose interest. But you're right that you have to start with the right frame even if you think modifying your frames is as necessary as I tend to (see earlier in the paragraph) and that's something I've come to accept recently as a limiting factor.

 

[dave333]

can someone tell me what else I should do w/ this setup?
m-fil 300
wilson pro overgrip
24.5 grams in upper hoop
5.5 grams in butt

 

[SFrazeur]

@Frazeur:

I do it for an entirely different, and slightly emberassing reason; I just get some psychological pleasure out of tweaking my equipment. No matter what I'm doing, I can't help myself, to be honest. I have to modify it, otherwise I lose interest. But you're right that you have to start with the right frame even if you think modifying your frames is as necessary as I tend to (see earlier in the paragraph) and that's something I've come to accept recently as a limiting factor.

You probably have a need for control over your equipment, that, as well as a need to personalize your equipment. You like to have a personal stake in or connection to your racquet, all of those things are not necessarily bad as long as they are not taken to an obsessive impossible perfectionistic degree.

 

[Amone]

You probably have a need for control over your equipment, that, as well as a need to personalize your equipment. You like to have a personal stake in or connection to your racquet, all of those things are not necessarily bad as long as they are not taken to an obsessive impossible perfectionistic degree.

If by 'obsessive,' you mean 'excessively frequent,' then I am. If you meant 'high expectations?' Not so much. I know there's a limit. I just don't think people give it enough credit, except for the people who give it too much. NBM falls into the first category, most of the TravlerAjm followers (specifically the majority of the ones who post the 'Help me TravlerAjm, cause I can't think for myself!' threads) in the second.

 

[Nobuhiko]

Wow, I didn't know posting this thread would cause a little heated debate.

SFazeur, I was trying to expand the sweet spot, and the reason why I'm adding lead to the racquet is because before I got the nPro Open, I used my dad's nSix-One, and when I switched. I didn't like how stability was whenever I hit slightly above the sweet spot, I just like how the weight felt and I didn't know 11oz would be so different from 12oz. But adding the lead didn't really help, and that's why I came to here. My strokes are pretty decent, I can hit the sweet spot nearly all the time, I'm also a track and field runner, so I'm like a dog on a bone, when it comes with me and the tennis ball. Also thanks for the advice from everyone.

 

[zapvor]

why did you get the nPro Open in the first place? isn't that like a lightweight one? i only demoed the nBlade and it was heavy. nice. but that's just me.

 

[Nobuhiko]

Because I tried my friend's nPro Open which felt great, but he never told me it was customized, so I thought it was like that stock. I can't demo frames because I only have a atm card and underage, so no paypal. Also I tried the nBlade, I just didn't like the string pattern. But the nPro Open is a pretty decent frame, and I just sort of wish I bought an nSix-One instead now. Knowing that this customizing thing didn't really work like I expected it to be.

 

[zapvor]

ah ok.

i dont have paypal either. i got demos from the local shop. i guess there isnt one near you. i just helped my coach get his n.61 tour and it's working out for him so far. either way i am sure you will get used to it and be fine.

 

[Nobuhiko]

I just wanted to give some heads up about my customizing problem. I used that lead method Amone said earlier, I tried to fishing lead weight, and wow it really worked. I was pretty impress how it felt, downside of using this fishing lead weight however is whenever I hit off center shots, the vibration was so much sometimes the tape that I'm holding the lead to the butt cap would fall off. -_- Yea, I couldn't find any small lead weights, and Wal-mart had these weird bullet shaped ones, so I just taped it on the butt cap. I also experimented putting 1 oz of lead weights to the butt, really head light, the weight feels like a nSix-One. I can't wait to get some actual lead tape and just tape it on the butt cap now. Thanks again for all your guys help!

 

[Amone]

Glad everything worked out for you, Prince of Faith.