IMO Novak Djokovic is THE BEST EVER

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King Fed WW

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A recent thread by Nathaniel Near got me thinking about who is The Best Ever. Here was a Fed fan admitting he feels Nadal to be the best ever. He put his bias aside. It has encouraged me to make a confession. I don' think Federer is The Best Ever. I may have a pro Fed stance on here but if I was in the pub and a friend asked me, ''Who do you think is the Best Ever'' My response would be Novak Djokovic.

The best level of tennis I have ever seen is from Djokovic. I feel he, and not Federer or Nadal, is the best ever. Sure, right now he isn't the greatest, his CV can't match them, there are reasons for that. But the gap will close. IMO Federer and Nadal have inflated slam counts relative to their level of tennis compared to Nole.

-In 2011 Djokovic blew away Federer and Nadal. Lets not kid ourselves, Nadal was in the form of his life. He was reaching final after final. But Novak just stepped it up a gear.

-He has dominated Fed since 2011. Even beating him on his own turf, Wimbledon. The level of tennis moved on from 2007 .

-Hard Court is the most difficult surface to dominate on. The field is stronger than clay or grass. Federer and Nadal were lucky that their natural games suited these minority surfaces. Achievements on Hard are superior to Grass and Clay.

-Some will say he is behind Fed on HC, but here comes the issue of competition. If we swap Nole and Fed's US Open final opponents. I think we end with maybe 5 US Opens for Nole and only 3 for Fed. Let's not forget Nole already holds the records for most Open era AOs. The ONLY MAN TO HOLD AN OUTRIGHT SLAM RECORD AT A HC SLAM (the most difficult surface to dominate)

-H2H v Nadal on clay also proves him to be a superior Clay courter than Fed

- The fact after this year he will have 4 YE #1 in the era of Fedal is just sublime. Djokovic has dominated tennis for 5 years, in maybe the greatest era of all time.

Basically tennis has moved on generation after generation. Berdych is better than Laver. For me, in 2011 tennis moved up a gear and Novak Djokovic did that. Therefore I make him the best I have ever seen.

Novak Djokovic #TBE
 
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N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
I don't think Djokovic is actually that good at the US Open. It's slower HC where he's virtually unstoppable when at his best, IMO.

You might be right. Maybe Djokovic has produced the highest level of tennis that we have yet seen. I'm not sure it's the case though because of seeing how he can be countered by Nadal with the DTL FH when Nadal is also on the top of his game.

I guess time will tell with Djokovic on the gaps closing. He's not called the Omnipotence (by one person) for nothing.

My issue with the argument is that Djokovic's record in Slam finals is questionable. This is important because only the best of the best reach the finals and to win a Slam you need to playing stellar tennis for two weeks. At the final hurdle, Djokovic's record is questionable...
 
Alien

Alien

Hall of Fame
I agree. I believe Federer is the GOAT out of accomplishments and I love his relaxed style, even 1hbh.

But the highest level of pure tennis I have ever seen, was Nole beating Rafa on clay MS1000s in 2011. The rallies were amazing and yet his backhand would eventually dismantle Nadal´s heavy forehand.
 
K

King Fed WW

Guest
Nathaniel_Near said:
My issue with the argument is that Djokovic's record in Slam finals is questionable. This is important because only the best of the best reach the finals and to win a Slam you need to playing stellar tennis for two weeks. At the final hurdle, Djokovic's record is questionable...
Click to expand...

Level of tennis and winning tennis matches are not the same thing. I don't make Djokovic the greatest.

Here is an example, the 2009 AO. It makes Nadal greater but does it make him better? Because he actually won less points. So if we are purely talking about level of tennis, then who wins the match isn't always so relevant.

Djokovic has lost matches due to mental weakness as well. I consider than irrelevant in determining level of tennis one can produce and therefore, for me, does not effect his status as #TBE
 
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Alien

Alien

Hall of Fame
King Fed WW said:
Djokovic has lost matches due to mental weakness as well. I consider than irrelevant in determining level of tennis one can produce and therefore for me does not effect his status as #TBE
Click to expand...

I think he knows it and that is why he hired Becker. It may also be overcome, as Lendl did (who is in the short list of greatest).
 
TommyA8X

TommyA8X

Hall of Fame
King Fed WW said:
A recent thread by Nathaniel Near got me thinking about who is The Best Ever. Here was a Fed fan admitting he feels Nadal to be the best ever. He put his bias aside. It has encouraged me to make a confession. I don' think Federer is The Best Ever. I may have a pro Fed stance on here but if I was in the pub and a friend asked me, ''Who do you think is the Best Ever'' My response would be Novak Djokovic.

The best level of tennis I have ever seen is from Djokovic. I feel he, and not Federer or Nadal, is the best ever. Sure, right now he isn't the greatest, his CV can't match them, there are reasons for that. But the gap will close. IMO Federer and Nadal have inflated slam counts relative to their level of tennis compared to Nole.

-In 2011 Djokovic blew away Federer and Nadal. Lets not kid ourselves, Nadal was in the form of his life. He was reaching final after final. But Novak just stepped it up a gear.

-He has dominated Fed since 2011. Even beating him on his own turf, Wimbledon. The level of tennis moved on from 2007 .

-Hard Court is the most difficult surface to dominate on. The field is stronger than clay or grass. Federer and Nadal were lucky that their natural games suited these minority surfaces. Achievements on Hard are superior to Grass and Clay.

-Some will say he is behind Fed on HC, but here comes the issue of competition. If we swap Nole and Fed's US Open final opponents. I think we end with maybe 5 US Opens for Nole and only 3 for Fed. Let's not forget Nole already holds the records for most Open era AOs. The ONLY MAN TO HOLD AN OUTRIGHT SLAM RECORD AT A HC SLAM (the most difficult surface to dominate)

-H2H v Nadal on clay also proves him to be a superior Clay courter than Fed

- The fact after this year he will have 4 YE #1 in the era of Fedal is just sublime. Djokovic has dominated tennis for 5 years, in maybe the greatest era of all time.

Basically tennis has moved on generation after generation. Berdych is better than Laver. For me, in 2011 tennis moved up a gear and Novak Djokovic did that. Therefore I make him the best I have ever seen.

Novak Djokovic #TBE
Click to expand...

I can't be sure whether this is (another) troll thread or not, but that bolded part has always bugged me. Why do people constantly keep mentioning (ONLY) the final opponent in a slam? When did slams become a two players event:confused: You have to beat 7 players to win a slam.
Federer actually beat Djokovic 3 times in a row at the USO, and the only two wins Djokovic has there came after saving 4 match points.
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
King Fed WW said:
Level of tennis and winning tennis matches are not the same thing. I don't make Djokovic the greatest.

Here is an example, the 2009 AO. It makes Nadal greater but does it make him better? Because he actually won less points. So if we are purely talking about level of tennis, then who wins the match isn't always so relevant.

Djokovic has lost matches due to mental weakness as well. I consider than irrelevant in determining level of tennis one can produce and therefore for me does not effect his status as #TBE
Click to expand...

That's fair, but then couldn't the mercurial Marat Safin be considered? Or is he too ancient.
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
it's like Floyd Mayweather Jr.: he calls himself TBE, but he sure as heck ain't the greatest. Maybe he's right.. but only P4P, if so.
 
Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
TommyA8X said:
I can't be sure whether this is (another) troll thread or not, but that bolded part has always bugged me. Why do people constantly keep mentioning (ONLY) the final opponent in a slam? When did slams become a two players event:confused: You have to beat 7 players to win a slam.
Federer actually beat Djokovic 3 times in a row at the USO, and the only two wins Djokovic has there came after saving 4 match points.
Click to expand...

So what if Djokovic had to save 4 match points? A win's a win at the end of the day and they all count.
 
beast of mallorca

beast of mallorca

G.O.A.T.
King Fed WW said:
A recent thread by Nathaniel Near got me thinking about who is The Best Ever. Here was a Fed fan admitting he feels Nadal to be the best ever. He put his bias aside. It has encouraged me to make a confession. I don' think Federer is The Best Ever. I may have a pro Fed stance on here but if I was in the pub and a friend asked me, ''Who do you think is the Best Ever'' My response would be Novak Djokovic.

The best level of tennis I have ever seen is from Djokovic. I feel he, and not Federer or Nadal, is the best ever. Sure, right now he isn't the greatest, his CV can't match them, there are reasons for that. But the gap will close. IMO Federer and Nadal have inflated slam counts relative to their level of tennis compared to Nole.

-In 2011 Djokovic blew away Federer and Nadal. Lets not kid ourselves, Nadal was in the form of his life. He was reaching final after final. But Novak just stepped it up a gear.

-He has dominated Fed since 2011. Even beating him on his own turf, Wimbledon. The level of tennis moved on from 2007 .

-Hard Court is the most difficult surface to dominate on. The field is stronger than clay or grass. Federer and Nadal were lucky that their natural games suited these minority surfaces. Achievements on Hard are superior to Grass and Clay.

-Some will say he is behind Fed on HC, but here comes the issue of competition. If we swap Nole and Fed's US Open final opponents. I think we end with maybe 5 US Opens for Nole and only 3 for Fed. Let's not forget Nole already holds the records for most Open era AOs. The ONLY MAN TO HOLD AN OUTRIGHT SLAM RECORD AT A HC SLAM (the most difficult surface to dominate)

-H2H v Nadal on clay also proves him to be a superior Clay courter than Fed

- The fact after this year he will have 4 YE #1 in the era of Fedal is just sublime. Djokovic has dominated tennis for 5 years, in maybe the greatest era of all time.

Basically tennis has moved on generation after generation. Berdych is better than Laver. For me, in 2011 tennis moved up a gear and Novak Djokovic did that. Therefore I make him the best I have ever seen.

Novak Djokovic #TBE
Click to expand...

This has become a competition as to who can troll the best, IMHO.....:lol:
 
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K

King Fed WW

Guest
The MPs argument doesn't hold. A MP is just like any other point. If we decide to just give a point to Nole he didn't win in the first set then maybe he wins in straights. Djokovic beat Fed fair and square. That as Fed fan saddens me.

Nathaniel_Near said:
That's fair, but then couldn't the mercurial Marat Safin be considered? Or is he too ancient.
Click to expand...

My evaluation of Djokovic's status, I should clarify, is a combination of level of play and greatness. The OP demonstrates that, for me, I feel Djokovic is greater than his 8 slams and Nadal and Federer are less great than their respective slam totals. Due to factors such as weak competition.

On level of play, then yes Safin is of course in the conversation. But, with regards to being ancient, that is true. Safin is part of the Federer era which got left behind by Djokovic.
 
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TommyA8X

TommyA8X

Hall of Fame
Djokovic2011 said:
So what if Djokovic had to save 4 match points? A win's a win at the end of the day and they all count.
Click to expand...

Of course a win is a win, and Djokovic beating Federer at the USO 10 and 11 in absolutely legit. The OP is discussing the level of play, and frankly Federer>Djokovic in terms of level at the USO as evidenced by 5>1 titles and 3-2 H2H (with one of his wins requiring Federer's mental breakdown).
Also, Djokovic didn't have it tougher in terms of opposition. He only has himself to blame for screwing his 2012 and 2014 (semi)finals up.
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
My dearest beast, I truly mean what I said though. It's contentious but wanted it out in the open air for discussion. And anyway, how contentious is it really? Nadal is an extremely great player. One of the greatest. It's hardly laughable to think that he is the best. Maybe he stops at 14 Slams, but some good evidence is there. Maybe he goes on to win many more Slams, and then what will people say? They will probably complain about his achievements on clay, let's be honest.
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
King Fed WW said:
My evaluation of Djokovic's status, I should clarify, is a combination of level of play and greatness. The OP demonstrates that, for me, I feel Djokovic is greater than his 8 slams and Nadal and Federer are less great than their respective slam totals. Due to factors such as weak competition.

On level of play, then yes Safin is of course in the conversation. But, with regards to being ancient, that is true. Safin is part of the Federer era which got left behind by Djokovic.
Click to expand...

In other words, you're suggesting that Djokovic had it hardest, in maturing later and having to breakthrough arguably the most tyrannical duopoly the sport has seen on the men's side.

SpicyCurry1990 will certainly agree.
 
D

Djesus

Banned
Nathaniel_Near said:
My dearest beast, I truly mean what I said though. It's contentious but wanted it out in the open air for discussion. And anyway, how contentious is it really? Nadal is an extremely great player. One of the greatest. It's hardly laughable to think that he is the best. Maybe he stops at 14 Slams, but some good evidence is there. Maybe he goes on to win many more Slams, and then what will people say? They will probably complain about his achievements on clay, let's be honest.
Click to expand...

You are dumb.
 
TommyA8X

TommyA8X

Hall of Fame
Noelan said:
When serveboting isn't good enough to win any of that MP
Federerfanboys are really burdened with Novak:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Lol what are you even talking about. As I've already said, Djokovic's win is legit and it doesn't matter whether it was 6:0 6:0 6:0 or 7:5 in the fifth with saving a MP. OP said that Djokovic's level is higher and that he had it tougher at the USO, which i disagree with. That's all
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
Has Djokovic produced a level of tennis as good as Nadal's RG 2008 destruction or Federer's emphatic '04 US Slam Final win over Hewitt?
 
Alien

Alien

Hall of Fame
Nathaniel_Near said:
Has Djokovic produced a level of tennis as good as Nadal's RG 2008 destruction or Federer's emphatic '04 US Slam Final win over Hewitt?
Click to expand...

Come on you cant mention a final against Hewitt as a peak... He was alone by then.

When ND destroyed RN on clay in 2011, yes, he has.
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
Alien said:
Come on you cant mention a final against Hewitt as a peak... He was alone by then.

When ND destroyed RN on clay in 2011, yes, he has.
Click to expand...

I find it hard to treat non-slam play seriously. The best need to produce their best on the most important stages. Of course, Nole does do that, but has he ever done it to the level that Federer and Nadal have. Maybe at the 2011 AO? Maybe his destruction of Ferrer at AO 2013?
 
TommyA8X

TommyA8X

Hall of Fame
Nathaniel_Near said:
In other words, you're suggesting that Djokovic had it hardest, in maturing later and having to breakthrough arguably the most tyrannical duopoly the sport has seen on the men's side.

SpicyCurry1990 will certainly agree.
Click to expand...

Federer had Nadal, Agassi, Djokovic, Hewitt, Roddick, Davydenko etc.

If we're gonna use a 32 yo Federer and Nadal who goes away for the 6 months every season as a proof of the toughest era ever, what's wrong with using a 34 yo Agassi and 21 yo Nadal and Djokovic as a proof of the toughest era ever for Federer. Certainly tougher, look at all those slams they've won :rolleyes:
 
beast of mallorca

beast of mallorca

G.O.A.T.
Nathaniel_Near said:
My dearest beast, I truly mean what I said though. It's contentious but wanted it out in the open air for discussion. And anyway, how contentious is it really? Nadal is an extremely great player. One of the greatest. It's hardly laughable to think that he is the best. Maybe he stops at 14 Slams, but some good evidence is there. Maybe he goes on to win many more Slams, and then what will people say? They will probably complain about his achievements on clay, let's be honest.
Click to expand...

I'm still trying to wrap my fingers around your other "infamous" thread. You are one of the staunchest Fed fans around here, one that I like, actually (and there aren't many, mind). And you make a thread not very many of your colleagues would like, much less Rafa fans would take sriously. Altho' you have made valid points therein.

I just see it as a parody here in TW. In the same vein that the other "infamous" thread that Falstaff made. Just hard to see the seriousness (or the sillyness) of the writer's motive. That's my take on all of these.

The next thread I will see is, maybe Octobrina, cRISTY or TDK to make a thread saying that "Federer is The Best Ever, IMHO"
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
TommyA8X said:
Federer had Nadal, Agassi, Djokovic, Hewitt, Roddick, Davydenko etc.

If we're gonna use a 32 yo Federer and Nadal who goes away for the 6 months every season as a proof of the toughest era ever, what's wrong with using a 34 yo Agassi and 21 yo Nadal and Djokovic as a proof of the toughest era ever for Federer. Certainly tougher, look at all those slams they've won :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Absolutely nothing. I presented a possibility, that's all.
 
K

King Fed WW

Guest
Nathaniel_Near said:
Has Djokovic produced a level of tennis as good as Nadal's RG 2008 destruction or Federer's emphatic '04 US Slam Final win over Hewitt?
Click to expand...

Yes, yes he has.

First of all winning matches on clay does not require as high a level of tennis, the field is weaker. Therefore performance level need not be as high.

The 2011 Australian Open is maybe one of the greatest tennis performances ever seen.

Straight sets v Federer and Murray.

Fed's 04 final v Hewitt is overrated. Hewitt is inferior to Murray (lets not go into this).

Fed is a great player who produced a great level but Djokovic stepped it up a gear. He moved tennis on.
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
beast of mallorca said:
I'm still trying to wrap my fingers around your other "infamous" thread. You are one of the staunchest Fed fans around here, one that I like, actually (and there aren't many, mind). And you make a thread not very many of your colleagues would like, much less Rafa fans would take sriously. Altho' you have made valid points therein.

I just see it as a parody here in TW. In the same vein that the other "infamous" thread that Falstaff made. Just hard to see the seriousness (or the sillyness) of the writer's motive. That's my take on all of these.

The next thread I will see is, maybe Octobrina, cRISTY or TDK to make a thread saying that "Federer is The Best Ever, IMHO"
Click to expand...

I understand that it comes across as strange, but I don't give a damn about whether other Fed fans will like it. Fed fans aren't "colleagues" lol. There's a reason that I don't post at Roger's official website and see the Nadal news thread as cancerous. Swimming in the ocean is more fun than being protected in some pathetic pond. The valid points you see... that should be the focus. After all, the points are valid, and I spent a lot of time on many of the posts—they are long and detailed. Others have responded with very good counterarguments. It's just an opinion, after all... not a fact. Fortunately for 5555 it is not a fact that Nadal is the best player.
 
m2nk2

m2nk2

Hall of Fame
But you're forgetting to take into consideration that Djokovic plays in the weakest era that has existed in tennis.

He would be top 10 in the 90s probably, and win a slam or two. But not more than so I'm afraid.
 
beast of mallorca

beast of mallorca

G.O.A.T.
m2nk2 said:
But you're forgetting to take into consideration that Djokovic plays in the weakest era that has existed in tennis.

He would be top 10 in the 90s probably, and win a slam or two. But not more than so I'm afraid.
Click to expand...

And now you're going in the other extreme there, buddy...........:twisted:
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
TommyA8X said:
Well, I agree plenty of those stuff can be argued, which is fine. It's just annoying when people act as if 2011-2014 is unquestionably the toughest era ever, that's all.
Click to expand...

It's good at the top but questionable below—big old boobies, no waist no butt.
 
TommyA8X

TommyA8X

Hall of Fame
King Fed WW said:
Yes, yes he has.

First of all winning matches on clay does not require as high a level of tennis, the field is weaker. Therefore performance level need not be as high.

The 2011 Australian Open is maybe one of the greatest tennis performances ever seen.

Straight sets v Federer and Murray.

Fed's 04 final v Hewitt is overrated. Hewitt is inferior to Murray (lets not go into this).

Fed is a great player who produced a great level but Djokovic stepped it up a gear. He moved tennis on.
Click to expand...

He moved it so much that a 33 yo grandpa with 4 kids leads their H2H in 2014 3:2 :twisted:
 
beast of mallorca

beast of mallorca

G.O.A.T.
Soul_Evisceration said:
Fine.

Why don't you both share a room and your bromance together while you're at it? :twisted:

Ah Beast, you can't try as hard as you want but you won't break me
Click to expand...

Fine.

And you can do the same with your Chico and Clarky............:twisted:

And check your grammar while you're at it. :lol:
 
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sbengte

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
I have to agree that Nole 2.0, the one who existed between AO 2011 to Wimbledon 2011 may have been the best level ever. No one could/can defeat Nole playing at that level.

RG 2011 SF was just an aberration.
 
Alien

Alien

Hall of Fame
m2nk2 said:
But you're forgetting to take into consideration that Djokovic plays in the weakest era that has existed in tennis.

He would be top 10 in the 90s probably, and win a slam or two. But not more than so I'm afraid.
Click to expand...

This is ironic, right?

Two GOAT candidates going against him, plus Murray, and you say the weakest ? LOL.
 
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