V
VexlanderPrime
Guest
I see you blacked out from 2012-2014. Shame you missed a heck of an AO'12 finals.
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I see you blacked out from 2012-2014. Shame you missed a heck of an AO'12 finals.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Oooooh it's plenty...
Dem tears taste saltier than fried chicken! :lol:
not ok man
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jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
LOL seriously? When did pre-2011 Rafa have an HC season like 2013 Nadal?
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Pre-2011 Rafa was a factor everywhere - AO / FO /Wimb / USO.
The only non clay major Rafa has won since 2011 is USO 2013.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
That still doesn't mean he was better pre-2011, it's just that Djokovic vastly improved.
The idea of 'best ever' is clouded at best. It's ridiculous to just go on pure level of play and associate that with being the best. You immediately wipe out all previous generations simply because today's guys have more access to technology, training methods etc. Given the nature of sports (and tennis especially as technology has played a huge part in the last 40 years) you can only ever be the best of your generation. To say berdych is better than Laver is an incredibly flawed statement. You're taking the memory from a guy from 40+ years ago who grew uo with continental grips and wooden bats, and putting him up against berdych with poly strings and graphite rackets. What if berdych went back 40 years and had to use wood? For some reason all the 'best ever?' talks always assume players from the past have to come to the present and compete with todays conditions. Laver would smack berdych around if he had to play with a wooden stick.
Novak's level of play is very high, and the average tennis fan (everyone here) always gets hyped up with who is playing the best right now. They forget Fed from 05-06, and rafa from 08 etc. They forget Pete in his prime and discount Borg, Laver, Pancho etc etc. The you cannot have one 'best ever' - it's a silly idea and to say that you think it is Novak says to me you've only followed tennis a few years.
The level of play will always keep rising, its the nature of sports. Athletes get faster, stronger, train smarter and have access to more technology than the year before. 40 years from now people will look at Novak and think he would get wiped by the athletes of that generation. Its just how it goes.
You have to pick someone who dominates their era and transcends the sport. Pancho was beating laver in his prime when pancho was 40 years old. Federer took the game to a new level in 04-06 - rafa and novak took baseline tennis and especially defence to a new level after him, the game continually evolves. To say novak is the best ever seems kind of silly when a 32-33 year old fed beat him 3 matches - 2 last year.
Novak's level of play is very high, and the average tennis fan (everyone here) always gets hyped up with who is playing the best right now. They forget Fed from 05-06, and rafa from 08 etc. They forget Pete in his prime and discount Borg, Laver, Pancho etc etc. The you cannot have one 'best ever' - it's a silly idea and to say that you think it is Novak says to me you've only followed tennis a few years.
The level of play will always keep rising, its the nature of sports. Athletes get faster, stronger, train smarter and have access to more technology than the year before. 40 years from now people will look at Novak and think he would get wiped by the athletes of that generation. Its just how it goes.
You have to pick someone who dominates their era and transcends the sport. Pancho was beating laver in his prime when pancho was 40 years old. Federer took the game to a new level in 04-06 - rafa and novak took baseline tennis and especially defence to a new level after him, the game continually evolves. To say novak is the best ever seems kind of silly when a 32-33 year old fed beat him 3 matches - 2 last year.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
If Djokovic had vastly improved, then how come he lost 2 USO , 3 FO matches to Rafa ?
what ?
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I meant he vastly improved in 2011- early 2012.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Yes, Novak was invincible from 2011-AO 2012. But since then he is no longer the same player at majors. In spite of that, Rafa has won only 1 non clay major. That being the case, I am not sure why is there any doubt that Rafa pre-2011 was a better version.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Why does it have to be just about Djokovic? Perhaps the tour in general improved which is why Nadal has only won one non clay slam since 2011.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
You mean Rosol, Kyrgios , Darcis improved ? Or the fact that Rafa has not played 3 out of 13 majors since 2011 ?
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
2011 alone is not tennis history. No one denies that Novak was unstoppable that year (save FO when the maestero showed up)
We are talking since 2011.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Since 2011 Djokovic has still been the best player in the world.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Agree, but what has that got to do with the matter on hand.
We are discussing which version of Rafa was better . Would Novak during the period he is winning majors (2011-15) prefer to face a pre-2011 Rafa ?
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
He needs more multi-slam years.
Maybe he'll get one this year.
Maybe he'll get one this year.
Druss
Hall of Fame
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsSA0JRvcxw
Watch a 19yr old Hewitt beat a 29yr old Sampras on his dominant surface. In comparison let's take 2006 Djokovic vs 2010 Federer... who do you think will win? Anyone with a decent brain would say Federer. Would 2006 Djokovic give Sampras a tough time like Hewitt did? I don't think so. Hewitt deserves more respect. USO final featured Cilic vs Nishikori! Do you call that a strong era? 2014 signaled the decline of the supposedly golden age of tennis. Federer is 34 this year, Nadal is visibly on a decline, Murray is erratic...this presents Djokovic with a window of opportunity to add to his slam count. If he doesn't capitalize from this 'weak era' as Nadal & Djokovic fans like to say, then he definitely does not deserve to be in the running of the GOAT debate. Can he make it to 14? I think it's possible....all I say to Djokovic fans who like to bring up the weak era BS, careful, it might come back to bite ya.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Federer, nadal and djokovic are the three best tennis players to ever walk our earth. Lets leave it at that
TommyA8X
Hall of Fame
K
King Fed WW
Guest
Three of the biggest Fed haters about. I doubt it.
Octobrina should make a thread containing her thoughts on anything, does not have to be Fed lol.
TommyA8X
Hall of Fame
Does a thread about Rafa putting his panties backwards count? :lol:
NatF
Bionic Poster
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
This is a very present-biased comment. The Borgs, Macs, Samprases and Agassis (and the list goes on) all knew how to play ball.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes. That's true. Federer and Nadal MIGHT be the 2 best players on this earth right now, but I'm not sure Djokovic in 3rd unless you believe tennis has improved to a point where all the guys before wouldn't be competitive. I don't believe that. I definitely think Sampras and Borg as 2 different example are both unquestionably better than Djokovic at this time.
From what I've heard, Borg was a freakish athlete in his own right. As such, I'm not sure 35 or so years difference is enough to say everything has evolved (read improved).
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
Very true, I've heard rumors about both his immense leg strength on tests, and his 400m times (though, to be fair, I haven't heard the hard numbers). I think he would have been a perfect specimen for today's game.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
LOL, it wasn't Fed who handed him that plate.
We all know what would have happened if Fed had to play Nadal for that trophy
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