Important article to read-implies college tennis should be 1st sport to go in light of COVID budget cuts

jcgatennismom

Professional

This is an article written on a site geared towards athletic directors. Tim Russell, ITA CEO, has written a response but it has not been published yet. Tim Russell was already planning on being on Facebook live on Tuesday with Parenting Aces Lisa Stone to answer questions before this article came out.

Main points of article

1) ADs will want to keep sports with fan bases that charge admission and/or are on TV
2) Most Olympic athletes are developed via college so there may be some justification for keeping non revenue sports that develop US Olympic athletes
3) Tennis should be an easy sport to eliminate because a) low % of US Olympic athletes from college tennis compared to other Olympic sports b) 60% of D1 college tennis athletes are international

Here are some quotes:

"Since no AD will likely have this conversation publicly, let’s have it here. The conversation is very different between Division I and, say, Division III where athletes make up 50% or more of the student body on a given campus. The focus here is Division I, where athlete percentages are typically less than 4% of the student body. What if, in a post-coronavirus world, Division I athletic administrators say, “finances are squeezed. What is it we really do? We really are in the entertainment business, and while we would like to support student-athletes in a variety of programs, it no longer makes fiscal sense to do that.”

How would that look? Could Division I administrators change bylaws and say, for example, “we want football, men’s and women’s basketball, men’s and women’s ice hockey, baseball, and softball. We want women’s volleyball and women’s soccer because we want girls to continue playing those sports at a young age. Let’s also add men’s and women’s lacrosse because those are fast growing sports and we need some balance in the spring."Five men’s sports (football, basketball, ice hockey, baseball, lacrosse) and six women’s sports (volleyball, soccer, basketball, ice hockey, softball, lacrosse). All team sports. All sports which have avid fan bases. All sports which charge admission and are television friendly. "

"The big loser in this scenario is, of course, the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee (USOPC) which stands to see its athlete development pipeline for “Olympic sports” erased entirely. But is that college athletics’ problem? .... What does college sports receive in exchange for supporting the Olympic movement beyond the public relations benefit of saying they have Olympic fencers on campus?... Absent a sharply increased level of cooperation (NCAA, USOPC), it is conceivable “Olympic” sports at the college level may cease to exist.

"On the eve of the 2016 Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro, the NCAA boasted that “NCAA student-athletes make up most of Team USA.” By NCAA figures, 417 of the 555 (75%) U.S. Olympic athletes were incoming, current, or former NCAA athletes...Two sports, tennis (18%) and gymnastics (28%), were remarkable for the extremely low percentage of college athletes as Olympians. Which raises the question, why are colleges sponsoring sports such as these?... Consider this. The U.S. Tennis Association does not need universities to help train future Olympians, the rare Olympic sport that does not need college athletics. Further, the vast majority of collegiate tennis athletes in Power 5 schools come from outside the United States ....On April 6, 2020, I visited the men’s and women’s tennis web pages for all 14 SEC schools. Sixty percent (76/126) of men’s tennis players listed on the official athletic web page were from outside the United States. Fifty-three percent (61/115) of women’s SEC tennis players are from abroad"
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

What are TTW readers hearing about athletic budget cuts? Obviously athletic budgets lost $375million from the cancellation of NCAA basketball but donations could be down due to donor job and/or stock losses, revenue from student fees will be down if students dont return or student fees could be cut if classes continue online, endowments for scholarships could be down, universities have losses from refunded room and board, and state governments may cuts subsidies to universities-all these could cause significant reductions in athletic budgets before we even talk about loss of football revenue. Where do you think the cuts will be: across the board % reduction to sports budgets, cuts of entire programs, % salary cuts to coaches, loss of athletic scholarships, reduction in travel, etc.?

What are your thoughts? The scenario will probably be different between 3 groups: the P5s, the midmajors, and the smaller NAIA/D2/D3. The last group may rely on athletes to meet admissions quotas-at some of those smaller schools 40-50% of students may be athletes with some academic and athletic $ but still paying to play. Without athletics, those schools might close. The P5s if football starts will probably be OK with some budget tightening, but the midmajors fund sports primarily with student fees. Some of those schools dont have football and anyway football losing $ for most schools. What are your thoughts for athletics in general and for tennis specifically?

Unfortunately student athletes dont see the big picture. They are happy they might get an extra year or even go to graduate school on a partial tennis scholarship. They don't see much more could be at stake than whether their extra year will be funded.
 

NoChance

Rookie
BTW, Wisconsin announced (yesterday, I believe) that they will not grant the extra year to this year's spring sport seniors.

As to who survives and who doesn't, it is a pretty complex matter. I would guess that, even if there is football this fall, non-revenue sports will be told to tighten the belt a couple of big notches. Without football, it would depend on how big the "war chest" is at a given university. No doubt, some teams will drop off the map. I gotta believe that most any AD has a list of "next sport out" in case revenue drops drastically. At some of those schools, that sport is tennis.

If the team underachieves, and/or the facility is not anything to write home about, that could be a factor. Double whammy if the team plays matches off-campus; there are some who do that.

Would a school use as an excuse to drop tennis the fact that their tennis team has a large number of international players? I never thought about it that way, but some ADs might.
 

mikej

Hall of Fame
Frankly, college tennis has done this to itself if it starts to get dropped. I love college tennis but I still buy some of the above arguments. For example, if I'm an AD, I'm keeping a top college swimming program (mostly Americans, develops US olympians) over a top college tennis program (mostly overage foreigners at many top programs).
 

NoChance

Rookie
If I am an AD, and I want to keep my tennis team(s), but need to cut costs, I'd be putting a pretty strong limit on number of fall tournaments, and distances traveled. Come January, there would be a travel limit to non-conference matches, and I'd be putting the kibosh on spring break trips. But hey, I don't have to make those decisions, thankfully.

When the P5 mega-conferences came to be, travel costs exploded. Nebraska and Rutgers in the same conference? Baylor and West Virginia in the same conference? Wow. Glad I'm not coaching nor playing.
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
Based on the discussion, I think that mid-major programs are pretty fragile right now. The athletic departments often lose money anyway, not much fan interest in the tennis teams, and approximately 0.01% of pro tennis players and Olympic team players are from mid-majors. The typical mid-major program has near-zero publicity coming in from former tennis players who are now ATP pros.
 

silentkman

Professional

This is an article written on a site geared towards athletic directors. Tim Russell, ITA CEO, has written a response but it has not been published yet. Tim Russell was already planning on being on Facebook live on Tuesday with Parenting Aces Lisa Stone to answer questions before this article came out.

Main points of article

1) ADs will want to keep sports with fan bases that charge admission and/or are on TV
2) Most Olympic athletes are developed via college so there may be some justification for keeping non revenue sports that develop US Olympic athletes
3) Tennis should be an easy sport to eliminate because a) low % of US Olympic athletes from college tennis compared to other Olympic sports b) 60% of D1 college tennis athletes are international

Here are some quotes:

"Since no AD will likely have this conversation publicly, let’s have it here. The conversation is very different between Division I and, say, Division III where athletes make up 50% or more of the student body on a given campus. The focus here is Division I, where athlete percentages are typically less than 4% of the student body. What if, in a post-coronavirus world, Division I athletic administrators say, “finances are squeezed. What is it we really do? We really are in the entertainment business, and while we would like to support student-athletes in a variety of programs, it no longer makes fiscal sense to do that.”

How would that look? Could Division I administrators change bylaws and say, for example, “we want football, men’s and women’s basketball, men’s and women’s ice hockey, baseball, and softball. We want women’s volleyball and women’s soccer because we want girls to continue playing those sports at a young age. Let’s also add men’s and women’s lacrosse because those are fast growing sports and we need some balance in the spring."Five men’s sports (football, basketball, ice hockey, baseball, lacrosse) and six women’s sports (volleyball, soccer, basketball, ice hockey, softball, lacrosse). All team sports. All sports which have avid fan bases. All sports which charge admission and are television friendly. "

"The big loser in this scenario is, of course, the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee (USOPC) which stands to see its athlete development pipeline for “Olympic sports” erased entirely. But is that college athletics’ problem? .... What does college sports receive in exchange for supporting the Olympic movement beyond the public relations benefit of saying they have Olympic fencers on campus?... Absent a sharply increased level of cooperation (NCAA, USOPC), it is conceivable “Olympic” sports at the college level may cease to exist.

"On the eve of the 2016 Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro, the NCAA boasted that “NCAA student-athletes make up most of Team USA.” By NCAA figures, 417 of the 555 (75%) U.S. Olympic athletes were incoming, current, or former NCAA athletes...Two sports, tennis (18%) and gymnastics (28%), were remarkable for the extremely low percentage of college athletes as Olympians. Which raises the question, why are colleges sponsoring sports such as these?... Consider this. The U.S. Tennis Association does not need universities to help train future Olympians, the rare Olympic sport that does not need college athletics. Further, the vast majority of collegiate tennis athletes in Power 5 schools come from outside the United States ....On April 6, 2020, I visited the men’s and women’s tennis web pages for all 14 SEC schools. Sixty percent (76/126) of men’s tennis players listed on the official athletic web page were from outside the United States. Fifty-three percent (61/115) of women’s SEC tennis players are from abroad"
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

What are TTW readers hearing about athletic budget cuts? Obviously athletic budgets lost $375million from the cancellation of NCAA basketball but donations could be down due to donor job and/or stock losses, revenue from student fees will be down if students dont return or student fees could be cut if classes continue online, endowments for scholarships could be down, universities have losses from refunded room and board, and state governments may cuts subsidies to universities-all these could cause significant reductions in athletic budgets before we even talk about loss of football revenue. Where do you think the cuts will be: across the board % reduction to sports budgets, cuts of entire programs, % salary cuts to coaches, loss of athletic scholarships, reduction in travel, etc.?

What are your thoughts? The scenario will probably be different between 3 groups: the P5s, the midmajors, and the smaller NAIA/D2/D3. The last group may rely on athletes to meet admissions quotas-at some of those smaller schools 40-50% of students may be athletes with some academic and athletic $ but still paying to play. Without athletics, those schools might close. The P5s if football starts will probably be OK with some budget tightening, but the midmajors fund sports primarily with student fees. Some of those schools dont have football and anyway football losing $ for most schools. What are your thoughts for athletics in general and for tennis specifically?

Unfortunately student athletes dont see the big picture. They are happy they might get an extra year or even go to graduate school on a partial tennis scholarship. They don't see much more could be at stake than whether their extra year will be funded.
The author is right. we all know tennis has been dominated by foreigners. I was surprised by the amount per player. I've seen HBCU tennis teams with all white foreigners. tennis is such an individual sport, i just don't see the need for it at the college level.

I'm from the Norfolk area, and I'm surprised about the wrestling program. I thought they were making progress. I'm sure it has something to do with the the money spent on football. I'll be surprised if its making a profit yet.
 

graycrait

Hall of Fame
I am going to be a little selfish about this. I hang out at the local D1 "small school" tennis courts and get an occasional hit with the players. This year 5 of 7 men are internationals and 6 of 7 of the women are internationals. This has been the trend for some years. The total number of international undergrad students at this uni is around 45, 60 if we consider graduate students. So the international tennis players expand the international student body by a big percentage, including two former tennis players who are in grad school but no longer have eligibility. I don't know how many athletes in other sports are international but I suspect several.

This school has the privilege of having their own 4 court indoor facility in a conference where this is a rarity. The facility was built in the early 80s and is reminiscent of a large yellow metal sided pole barn, sitting right next to a newly rebuilt very expensive football stadium. In 2019 there was a lot of talk about the football team taking over the tennis center or planning something in that spot. I suspect after this year, that conversation will rise again. If the tennis center goes I suspect the tennis team will go as well. The weather is not conducive for year round tennis and there are no local indoor facilities.

All this angst about the local tennis program provided me the impetus to read a lot about the NCAA, money in collegiate sports, etc. If I owned the world I would return all collegiate sports to intramurals and let MLB, NBA, NFL and Olympics finance their own development programs.
 

NoChance

Rookie
I have believed that college athletics have been walking a tightrope for a number of years, that they were on a path that was not sustainable. I felt that an unforeseen circumstance could have the ability to make some noticeable changes.

Well, here we are. Depending on how things pan out, the changes may be minor, or major. But, there will be changes.
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
I have believed that college athletics have been walking a tightrope for a number of years, that they were on a path that was not sustainable. I felt that an unforeseen circumstance could have the ability to make some noticeable changes.

Well, here we are. Depending on how things pan out, the changes may be minor, or major. But, there will be changes.
Well, changes will be coming and it does not look for college athletics sports, even with revenue sports like football and basketball but those non-revenue like tennis, golf, swimming, lacrosse, etc... will take a HUGE hit. Not enough $$$ from football and basketball to cover other sports: https://www.si.com/college/michigan...ball-michigan-wolverines-coronavirus-covid-19

For so long, football and basketball have been the cash cow to subsidize other sports and the overwhelming majority players in football and basketball are AA and their hard work is being used to subsidize college cost for non-AA athletes in other sports. I am glad this happens so that the college athletic scam is finally exposed.
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
The big schools will be fine. Some athletic department actually transfer money back to the school. Title IX will continue to play a role.

The financial statement is two years ago and lot of things have changed since. No one could have predicted that the US in on the verge of 20%+ unemployment and tinkering toward a depression. Even big schools in Power-5 conferences and Notre Dame will feel the pain, may be less than other schools and Group of 5 schools, but big Power-5 schools will feel lots of financial pain.

They already lost over 1B due to cancellation of the NCAA men basketball. No one knows if/when football (the cash cow) will come back. It is very unlikely that college football can resume with business as usual until there is a covid-19 vaccine (at least 12 to 18 months ago). If there is no football, there will be no revenue at the stadium and concessions. That is a huge chunk of revenue. If there is no football, there will be no TV revenue which is even a bigger blow then stadium revenue. Donations to the athletic department will be down as well. When people are not working, they will not give money to the athletic department. Yes, that applies to even wealthy people.

I graduated from Ohio State University and I still have friends working there in the athletic department. They are talking about furloughs, taking pay cut and staff reductions. Everything is on the table. Things are not looking good.
 

silentkman

Professional
The financial statement is two years ago and lot of things have changed since. No one could have predicted that the US in on the verge of 20%+ unemployment and tinkering toward a depression. Even big schools in Power-5 conferences and Notre Dame will feel the pain, may be less than other schools and Group of 5 schools, but big Power-5 schools will feel lots of financial pain.

They already lost over 1B due to cancellation of the NCAA men basketball. No one knows if/when football (the cash cow) will come back. It is very unlikely that college football can resume with business as usual until there is a covid-19 vaccine (at least 12 to 18 months ago). If there is no football, there will be no revenue at the stadium and concessions. That is a huge chunk of revenue. If there is no football, there will be no TV revenue which is even a bigger blow then stadium revenue. Donations to the athletic department will be down as well. When people are not working, they will not give money to the athletic department. Yes, that applies to even wealthy people.

I graduated from Ohio State University and I still have friends working there in the athletic department. They are talking about furloughs, taking pay cut and staff reductions. Everything is on the table. Things are not looking good.
Obviously everything has changed since March 1st. The financial Statement is probably the most current and provide a baseline. Obviously if Ohio State is cutting back that is a telltale for athletics across the country. I think they were building a new tennis center. I wonder what the status of that is? I don't know if the TV contracts are on a year by year basis? its Perilous times for everyone. i still don't understand endowments.

Criticisms of Endowments
Harvard University and other elite higher educational institutions have come under criticism for the size of their endowments. Critics have questioned the utility of large, multi-billion-dollar endowments, likening it to hoarding, especially as tuition costs began rising at the end of the 20th century. Large endowments had been thought of as rainy-day funds for educational institutions, but during the 2008 recession, many endowments cut their payouts. A 2014 American Economic Review study looked closely at the incentives behind this behavior and found that there has been a trend toward an overemphasis on the health of an endowment rather than the institution as a whole.

It’s not unusual for student activists to look with a critical eye at where their colleges and universities invest their endowments. In 1977, Hampshire College divested from South African investments in protest of apartheid, a move that a large number of educational institutions in the United States followed. Advocating for divestment from industries and countries that students find morally compromised is still common among student activists, though the practice is evolving to improve efficacy.
 

onehandbh

Legend
If one of the universities hire Rick Singer, he can help bring in more money and also give NTRP 3.5 level kids a chance to be on a top D1 tennis team like USC. (without even having to ever pick up a racquet)
 

andfor

Legend
I have feared for cuts among many non-revenue or non-profit generating college athletics since the inception of the P5, not just tennis. Maybe smaller schools that retain their programs will benefit by attracting higher level players if cuts happen. Too much to speculate on, we'll have to see how this shakes out.
 

jcgatennismom

Professional
As far as midmajor schools, do you think nonrevenue sports could possibly be placed in geographical conferences separate from football and basketball to save on travel expenses and prevent teams from being cut? I was thinking about Valparaiso whose team tennis had its last season this spring. I wonder if part of the reason the team was cut was increased travel expenses with the move to the Summit Conference. That team was one of the better MM teams esp a few years ago when Schorsch and Emhardt went deep in dubs in both the fall and NCAA May championships-I watched them lose in a close match vs UGA I think in the dubs QFs. Anyway I wonder if there are creative ways to cut expenses and save teams. I also wonder what will happen if the number of teams in particular MM conferences drops. Most of the MM conferences (at least 17) have 8 teams or less-some have only 6. Losing even 1-2 teams per conference would really hurt.

I also think tennis programs and players need to tell better stories as too many people think of it as an elitist sport with either players from wealthy families or internationals so why not cut it and let it be a country club sport with just a club team on campus? Tennis programs need to better explain what internationals bring to campus, e.g. some attend universities where 90-95% of students are in-state. The in-state students learn from attending class and doing projects with international students which prepares them for working in a global marketplace. Also there are tennis players who bloom in college, who mainly played high school tennis and just regional USTA tourneys-no nationals, yet they are competitive vs much higher UTR ranked players. Maybe they just didnt have the opportunity to play higher level players in their home communities and then really developed practicing with their teammates. I know of a former 3 stars who beat P5 opponents or P5 walk ons that clinched key conference matches. Tennis athletes have some of the best GPAs on campus, and many go on to become business leaders in their communities, and some are even now doctors fighting COVID-19. Stanford shared a tweet about one of its former players on the medical frontlines.

Tim Russell will be publishing his reply to the above article on Thursday.
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
As far as midmajor schools, do you think nonrevenue sports could possibly be placed in geographical conferences separate from football and basketball to save on travel expenses and prevent teams from being cut?
When all the conference realignments occurred, I thought that it only made sense to have such geographical spread for football and basketball (broaden the TV markets), but no sense at all for everyone else.

Should the women's tennis team at Texas travel to play West Virginia, or would it make more sense to travel to Arkansas or LSU? Hundreds of such examples could be devised.
 

silentkman

Professional
c'mon guys ODU did a study and determine that one sport had to go. The choice was the wrestling program. It could have been tennis. Ironically the entire men's team for ODU are foreigners. Looking at the numbers what sport would you eliminate?
 

andfor

Legend
Many D1 tennis conferences do not have a mandatory regular season intra-conference play rule. Don't know the number, but its not unusual for most teams to not have played each other at the year end conference championship. P5 schools I believe pretty much all play each other.
 

chic

Professional
As a different point in the "college tennis isn't part of the development process" narrative. This could be drastically changing currently as many pros aren't breaking out to their mid 20s. Making college play a valuable way for young juniors to extend their play time while picking up a secondary set of career skills. Especially since most teams also participate in itas and other such events.
 

silentkman

Professional
@silentkman , look at Grinnell College in Grinnell, IA and their endowment. My niece goes there and is one of their athletes. Fascinating in many ways: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...outrageous-acts-that-lifted-college-endowment
2 billion dollar endowment. fascinating with the Buffet man. 18 sports, including football. The book sounds good too. I'll take the 9:1 student teacher ratio anyday of the week. How did your niece decide on Grinell? i remember something basketball related about the school about 10 years ago.
 

graycrait

Hall of Fame
@silentkman , She had many offers within her skill set but when she saw the Grinnell pool, it was all over:) My brother captained a DIII mens tennis team not so very far away from Grinnell. I, however, attended a state school in Iowa on the GI Bill after an educational but by some accusers, a misspent youth, later succumbing to the siren call of a $100/mo offered by ROTC.
 
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silentkman

Professional
@silentkman , She had many offers within her skill set but when she saw the Grinnell pool, it was all over:) My brother captained a DIII mens tennis team not so very far away from Grinnell. I, however, attended a state school in Iowa on the GI Bill after an educational but by some accusers, a misspent youth, later succumbing to the siren call of a $100/mo offered by ROTC.
Congratulations to her. Looks like a great school. it appears that 25% of the students are athletes. I had a trip scheduled for Des Moines that was cancelled. I could have taken a quick trip to peek at the campus.
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
The University of Cincinnati just dropped their men's soccer program. I hope we don't get a lot of these announcements in the next few months, but times are not good.
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
The University of Cincinnati just dropped their men's soccer program. I hope we don't get a lot of these announcements in the next few months, but times are not good.
Without revenues coming in from football and basketball program, more programs will get either 1: eliminate outright or 2: severely cutback. I am so happy that football and basketball will not be enough to subsidize these non revenue sport athletes on the hard work of football and basketball players.

Players in non-revenue sports, especially tennis players, need to pay their own tuitions, room & board, and fee. I don't know about you but where I live, 99% of tennis parents drive BMW, Mercedes and Tesla. They certainly can afford college tuition.
 

silentkman

Professional
Without revenues coming in from football and basketball program, more programs will get either 1: eliminate outright or 2: severely cutback. I am so happy that football and basketball will not be enough to subsidize these non revenue sport athletes on the hard work of football and basketball players.

Players in non-revenue sports, especially tennis players, need to pay their own tuitions, room & board, and fee. I don't know about you but where I live, 99% of tennis parents drive BMW, Mercedes and Tesla. They certainly can afford college tuition.
Dude, way too many assumptions. all tennis players are wealthy, all football and basketball players are poor. using that logic, the non revenue sports can pay for everything themselves. ODU cut men's wrestling instead of tennis because women's volleyball is coming and its the same price as wrestling. the study indicated also that wrestling is dropping nationwide.

this is For ODU, but applies to non Power 5 schools as well

  1. The value the sport brings to the University
  2. The effect on Title iX
  3. The annual cost of operation
  4. The ability to compete and win C-USA championships
  5. The ability to generate revenues
  6. The interest of ODU constituents
  7. The ability of the program to expose the ODU on a national level
  8. The future of the and number of NCAA sponsored programs
  9. The impact within the athletic department to support that sport
 

jcgatennismom

Professional
Here is Tim Russell's (ITA CEO) reply to the original article https://www.wearecollegetennis.com/2020/04/15/ita-ceo-tim-russell-responds-to-athleticdirectoru/

St Edward's University in Austin (D2) just announced the elimination of 6 sports including men's and women's tennis https://gohilltoppers.com/news/2020...ponse-to-economic-impacts-of-coronavirus.aspx St Edward's did not have a football program. While it cut these sports, ironically it added an esports program last summer. Supposedly there are 100 universities with varsity esports programs. https://gohilltoppers.com/news/2019/6/6/general-st-edwards-adds-esports-for-2019-20-season.aspx Dont see what that adds to university's purpose unless varsity players are also CS majors learning how to create gaming apps/programs in preparation for a future career. Just what our country needs now-bunch of young adults playing more hours of video games. Most of the small % of young adults who had severe cases of COVID-19 had underlying medical conditions like diabetes, obesity, etc. Replacing real sports with Esports will only increase the disturbing trend of higher % of unfit young adults.
 
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Fabresque

Hall of Fame
Here is Tim Russell's (ITA CEO) reply to the original article https://www.wearecollegetennis.com/2020/04/15/ita-ceo-tim-russell-responds-to-athleticdirectoru/

St Edward's University in Austin (D2) just announced the elimination of 6 sports including men's and women's tennis https://gohilltoppers.com/news/2020...ponse-to-economic-impacts-of-coronavirus.aspx St Edward's did not have a football program. While it cut these sports, ironically it added an esports program last summer. Supposedly there are 100 universities with varsity esports programs. https://gohilltoppers.com/news/2019/6/6/general-st-edwards-adds-esports-for-2019-20-season.aspx Dont see what that adds to university's purpose unless varsity players are also CS majors learning how to create gaming apps/programs in preparation for a future career. Just what our country needs now-bunch of young adults playing more hours of video games. Most of the small % of young adults who had severe cases of COVID-19 had underlying medical conditions like diabetes, obesity, etc. Replacing real sports with Esports will only increase the disturbing trend of higher % of unfit young adults.
Don’t be that person, please just don’t be that person.

Also would this have an impact on smaller (D3) programs?
 
D

Deleted member 769694

Guest
Just what our country needs now-bunch of young adults playing more hours of video games. Most of the small % of young adults who had severe cases of COVID-19 had underlying medical conditions like diabetes, obesity, etc. Replacing real sports with Esports will only increase the disturbing trend of higher % of unfit young adults.
That maybe the dumbest thing i have read since we are bored in a lockdown. Video games are endless interactive entertainment, sitting on the sofa watching tv a doesnt give you anywhere the interaction video games do. Reaction skills, ability to react and think on the fly are beneficial to a tennis player.

Does he recommend practicing our eye hand cordination on a bowl of popcorn watching "the view" :-D:-D:-D
 

silentkman

Professional
Here is Tim Russell's (ITA CEO) reply to the original article https://www.wearecollegetennis.com/2020/04/15/ita-ceo-tim-russell-responds-to-athleticdirectoru/

St Edward's University in Austin (D2) just announced the elimination of 6 sports including men's and women's tennis https://gohilltoppers.com/news/2020...ponse-to-economic-impacts-of-coronavirus.aspx St Edward's did not have a football program. While it cut these sports, ironically it added an esports program last summer. Supposedly there are 100 universities with varsity esports programs. https://gohilltoppers.com/news/2019/6/6/general-st-edwards-adds-esports-for-2019-20-season.aspx Dont see what that adds to university's purpose unless varsity players are also CS majors learning how to create gaming apps/programs in preparation for a future career. Just what our country needs now-bunch of young adults playing more hours of video games. Most of the small % of young adults who had severe cases of COVID-19 had underlying medical conditions like diabetes, obesity, etc. Replacing real sports with Esports will only increase the disturbing trend of higher % of unfit young adults.
Division II schools are struggling anyway. its actually five, since cheerleading is not a sport. they don't have football, they were losing money on sports to begin with.
 

jcgatennismom

Professional
Division II schools are struggling anyway. its actually five, since cheerleading is not a sport. they don't have football, they were losing money on sports to begin with.
For many private D2,D3, and NAIA schools sports drive enrollment in that 35%+ of male students are playing varsity sports (example Brevard College in NC-55% of undergrads are varsity athletes). If those universities cut too many sports, they wont hit enrollment numbers and will be at risk of closing anyway. I can think of a small d2 school with a good tennis team where 36% of males are varsity athletes, and even with those high numbers the university is 60/40 Female/male. At those universities the safest sports may be the ones with the biggest rosters with most athletes paying most of their way with some athletic and/or academic $. Some universities probably should close-those who were not doing well before pandemic and that were graduating students with a lot of debt and few job prospects. If you look at the Forbes list of top colleges-650ish (out of 3000ish in US), most are D1 or D3 with some D2 and NAIA. Now St Edwards is on the Forbes list so it is one of the better D2s and also one of the more expensive ones. Only 8% enrolled are varsity athletes so cutting a few sports with small rosters at that university doesnt hurt enrollment $ significantly.

Even D2 teams that were doing well are at risk. I think St Edward's team was ranked #6 for D2. Armstrong State-public D2- which was always top 5 for D2 tennis lost its team a few years ago when GA merged Armstrong State with GA Southern.
 

jcgatennismom

Professional
Here's another article to read related to AD changes to nonrevenue sports in light of COVID-19 https://sports.yahoo.com/with-budge...Yed8ewtkItV3KsETRO32rxU2NSyUk1YR2m9IDhB6O9PWS

"A letter to NCAA president Mark Emmert from the Group of Five commissioners obtained by Yahoo Sports on Tuesday offers searing insight into the financial constraints felt at that level and the potential for a landscape that could look much different when sports return to campus. The fallout being discussed by those commissioners includes the potential elimination of postseason conference tournaments and shortened seasons in non-revenue sports. The letter from the commissioners of the AAC, Mountain West, MAC, Sun Belt and Conference USA asked for alterations of NCAA bylaws in the wake of COVID-19 in order to save money. The letter asks for “temporary relief from several regulatory requirements for a period of up to four years” in order to provide “short-term relief.” The letter hopes that this relief will provide “opportunity for institutions to retrench and rebuild the financial structures of the institution.” " The scariest waiver request mentioned in the article is "relief from the minimum number of “Sports Sponsorships,” as every FBS school is required to have a “minimum number of 16 varsity intercollegiate sports.” " Either this article or another suggested realigning conferences for nonrevenue sports which makes sense to save on travel costs.

Here a quote from Mountain West Conference commissioner Craig Thompson “We have to be creative in these times,” Thompson said in a phone interview. “I cannot emphasize enough that our intent is to maintain the same level of sports sponsorships. Is there a way to work on the edges or requirements, like the minimum number of contests? How can we reduce sports without eliminating sports?" (Note: the minimum number of NCAA dual matches for D1 tennis is 12 D1 matches-many schools play 20+ before conference/NCAA championships. If the minimum is selected for the big P5 conferences, that might mean only conference play )
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While schedule reductions are better than cutting teams, it would be sad for conferences to lose their championships-those are memories that will last the winners a lifetime. If these waivers are approved, I hope in those conferences a regular season champion can be identified and be able to play NCAA team championship May Madness. Certainly AAC has many strong tennis teams, some of whom would earn at-large berths to NCAA teams if ranked in top 42. Outside the Power 5, Ivy and the AAC field the strongest teams,

On this thread there are fans, parents of current players, parents of recruits, recruits/players themselves. I think for recruits/transfers the best option is to choose a university close drive from home or in-state with good academics and sound financial footing where they have a good chance to play but would be OK with limited play. There is talk in the news about on/off lifting of restrictions which would be very difficult for international players and US players far from home. Nobody-athlete or not-wants to arrive on campus in late August only to be sent home in October, esp if they are on the hook for off campus rent payments. I hope the borders will re-open so international players can return if not in September at least by January. The intent of this thread is not be alarmist but informative where posters can share what they have heard in the news or from AD staff they know. These are uncertain times, but not all is bad news. There are already posts of players committed or transferred for 5th years-Billy Rowe of Vanderbilt tranferring to UGA for his 5th which will add experience to a talented but youthful GA team (think Rowe has an uncle in the ATL metro area-saw him play this past summer in charity tournament), Connor Johnston continuing his 5th at Michigan-player who mainly played dubs most his college career but had some big singles wins in Michigan's rise in the rankings this year. Glad to see there are some positives...

I do hope we have fall sports-we need football for funding all sports. While the championship season for tennis is spring, in the fall everyone gets to play and there is crossover between MM and Power 5, and even at some fall invites between D1, NAIA, D2, and D3.
 
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bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
I do hope we have fall sports-we need football for funding all sports. While the championship season for tennis is spring, in the fall everyone gets to play and there is crossover between MM and Power 5, and even at some fall invites between D1, NAIA, D2, and D3.
This is so wrong on so many levels. You want the football program, which is overwhelmingly AA players from poor backgrounds, to subsidize sports like tennis, which is overwhelmingly non AA players from middle and upper class families. Do you know what will happen to football athletes that get injured while playing for universities? Guess what? The universities will kick them to the curve: https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...chools-abandon-their-injured-athletes/275407/

I attended OSU and the university kicked Maurice Clarett to the curve after he helped the school won the 2003 BCS national championship and raked in millions of dollars. Ask Terrell Pryor how OSU treated him. He help bringing millions to the school via football and he didn't have money to buy food.
 
Sports will be back.
Sport will be back .... But I prefer to trust Scientists, rather than the Politicians or the Sporting Bodies themselves who have vested interests.
Scientists say unlikely in 2020. More likely sometime in 2021, and possibly not until 2022. Without any decent vaccine or cure, who knows for sure. But it will be later rather than sooner.

It's a very sad situation for many, including College athletes. But it is what it is. For example, Tennis is perceived by many around the world to be a very selfish sport that is mainly the domain of the financially wealthy. Those sorts of sports will be the first to be put under the microscope because they are not Team focused at the Global level, and more importantly at the Professional level.

Organisations like the NCAA, and many of the Colleges themselves will be using this "Pause" to review the current programs and the value of them going forward. Perhaps things will never return to the way they were. That may not necessarily be a bad thing. Time will tell.
 
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andfor

Legend
This is so wrong on so many levels. You want the football program, which is overwhelmingly AA players from poor backgrounds, to subsidize sports like tennis, which is overwhelmingly non AA players from middle and upper class families. Do you know what will happen to football athletes that get injured while playing for universities? Guess what? The universities will kick them to the curve: https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...chools-abandon-their-injured-athletes/275407/

I attended OSU and the university kicked Maurice Clarett to the curve after he helped the school won the 2003 BCS national championship and raked in millions of dollars. Ask Terrell Pryor how OSU treated him. He help bringing millions to the school via football and he didn't have money to buy food.
I don't know where you get your logic but its lets just say amusing on one hand disturbing on another. Leave race out of this, nobody but you brought it up. Speaking for everyone here I can tell you you're the only one thinking this way.
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
I don't know where you get your logic but its lets just say amusing on one hand disturbing on another. Leave race out of this, nobody but you brought it up. Speaking for everyone here I can tell you you're the only one thinking this way.
So you think it is OK to take revenue from football and basketball to subsidize other sports like tennis? What will happen to football and basketball players who get injured while playing in college when their playing days are over? Who will take care of them? No one want to talk about this inequality but it is an ugly truth.

At my alma mater, The majority of the Ohio State football and basketball teams are African-American. In 2016 the football team had 70 African-American men (53 percent), and the basketball team had 10 (76.9 percent). DESPITE INCREASE IN OHIO STATE'S DIVERSITY, AFRICAN-AMERICAN MALE ENROLLMENT REMAINS AT 2.6 PERCENT: https://www.thelantern.com/2018/02/...rican-male-enrollment-remains-at-2-6-percent/

Just 41% of black male student-athletes graduating at Ohio State, study finds: https://www.bizjournals.com/columbu...f-black-male-student-athletes-graduating.html

Based on your logic, it is OK to fleece revenues from football and basketball players, who can least afford it, and use it to subsidize sports like tennis where most parents can afford it.
 

atatu

Legend
So you think it is OK to take revenue from football and basketball to subsidize other sports like tennis? What will happen to football and basketball players who get injured while playing in college when their playing days are over? Who will take care of them? No one want to talk about this inequality but it is an ugly truth.

At my alma mater, The majority of the Ohio State football and basketball teams are African-American. In 2016 the football team had 70 African-American men (53 percent), and the basketball team had 10 (76.9 percent). DESPITE INCREASE IN OHIO STATE'S DIVERSITY, AFRICAN-AMERICAN MALE ENROLLMENT REMAINS AT 2.6 PERCENT: https://www.thelantern.com/2018/02/...rican-male-enrollment-remains-at-2-6-percent/

Just 41% of black male student-athletes graduating at Ohio State, study finds: https://www.bizjournals.com/columbu...f-black-male-student-athletes-graduating.html

Based on your logic, it is OK to fleece revenues from football and basketball players, who can least afford it, and use it to subsidize sports like tennis where most parents can afford it.
I'm not sure that non revenue sports are the problem here...the problem is Universities who don't make an effort to make sure these kids get an education that can sustain them after their playing days. Also, maybe it's time for the NCAA to allow football players and basketball players to make some money while in school ?
 

andfor

Legend
So you think it is OK to take revenue from football and basketball to subsidize other sports like tennis? What will happen to football and basketball players who get injured while playing in college when their playing days are over? Who will take care of them? No one want to talk about this inequality but it is an ugly truth.

At my alma mater, The majority of the Ohio State football and basketball teams are African-American. In 2016 the football team had 70 African-American men (53 percent), and the basketball team had 10 (76.9 percent). DESPITE INCREASE IN OHIO STATE'S DIVERSITY, AFRICAN-AMERICAN MALE ENROLLMENT REMAINS AT 2.6 PERCENT: https://www.thelantern.com/2018/02/...rican-male-enrollment-remains-at-2-6-percent/

Just 41% of black male student-athletes graduating at Ohio State, study finds: https://www.bizjournals.com/columbu...f-black-male-student-athletes-graduating.html

Based on your logic, it is OK to fleece revenues from football and basketball players, who can least afford it, and use it to subsidize sports like tennis where most parents can afford it.
College athletics across the spectrum is not a zero sum game. Maybe that resonates, I’m guessing you refuse to consider that. There’s plenty to counter your AA football and BB analogies, but what’s most relevant is there’s many programs outside your myopic view that debunk your misguided perception. Add to that that since you attended school and probably then, injured athletes still get their scholarships.

There’s numerous cases of high net worth tennis player not taking athletic scholarship money to save the tennis program or non revenue generating program money and allow for that money to be used for an additional player that needs it.

Since you graduated P5 athletes get additional perks that include additional food. Something tells me you still don’t get the broader purpose of college athletics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
College athletics across the spectrum is not a zero sum game. Maybe that resonates, I’m guessing you refuse to consider that. There’s plenty to counter your AA football and BB analogies, but what’s most relevant is there’s many programs outside your myopic view that debunk your misguided perception. Add to that that since you attended school and probably then, injured athletes still get their scholarships.

There’s numerous cases of high net worth tennis player not taking athletic scholarship money to save the tennis program or non revenue generating program money and allow for that money to be used for an additional player that needs it.

Since you graduated P5 athletes get additional perks that include additional food. Something tells me you still don’t get the broader purpose of college athletics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
How do you account for the fact that my OSU has only 2.6% of minorities in the general student population but 53% of AA in football and 76.9% of AA in Basketball, and yet only 41% of black male graduated? The University could have set aside a lot more of the football and basketball revenue for support, stipend for food, clothing and those black male would have a much higher chance of graduating. One example is to allow them however long it takes to graduate after they exhausted their athletic eligibilities. Also provide better health benefits and long term care if god forbid, they get injured while playing for the universities.

Well, those things cost money and if the universities go ahead and implement that, they will have to reduce and/or eliminate a lot of non-revenue like tennis, golf, etc...

Yes, it is a zero sum game.
 

MarTennis

Semi-Pro
Sport will be back .... But I prefer to trust Scientists, rather than the Politicians or the Sporting Bodies themselves who have vested interests.
Scientists say unlikely in 2020. More likely sometime in 2021, and possibly not until 2022. Without any decent vaccine or cure, who knows for sure. But it will be later rather than sooner.

It's a very sad situation for many, including College athletes. But it is what it is. For example, Tennis is perceived by many around the world to be a very selfish sport that is mainly the domain of the financially wealthy. Those sorts of sports will be the first to be put under the microscope because they are not Team focused at the Global level, and more importantly at the Professional level.

Organisations like the NCAA, and many of the Colleges themselves will be using this "Pause" to review the current programs and the value of them going forward. Perhaps things will never return to the way they were. That may not necessarily be a bad thing. Time will tell.
Science will not dictate when most of society returns to normal activity. That includes tennis.
 

magnut

Hall of Fame
yeah just kill it off. Might as well. Sooner that happens the sooner we can Axe the USTA and rebuild the sport at the grass roots level.
 

andfor

Legend
How do you account for the fact that my OSU has only 2.6% of minorities in the general student population but 53% of AA in football and 76.9% of AA in Basketball, and yet only 41% of black male graduated? The University could have set aside a lot more of the football and basketball revenue for support, stipend for food, clothing and those black male would have a much higher chance of graduating. One example is to allow them however long it takes to graduate after they exhausted their athletic eligibilities. Also provide better health benefits and long term care if god forbid, they get injured while playing for the universities.

Well, those things cost money and if the universities go ahead and implement that, they will have to reduce and/or eliminate a lot of non-revenue like tennis, golf, etc...

Yes, it is a zero sum game.
You account for those number due to NCAA FB and BB players being mostly from an AA background, that's how. Graduation rates are the responsibility of each school. If they fall below a certain threshold they get sanctioned. I don't recall OSU getting is NCAA trouble for poor graduation rates. P5 athletes do get extra food. Healthcare for injuries during sport are covered, the NCAA has additional insurance options for those who want it.

You should lobby the president of OSU the AD and NCAA to take up your ideas. Let us know how that goes.
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
You account for those number due to NCAA FB and BB players being mostly from an AA background, that's how.
That's exactly what I am referring to. So you are saying it is OK to take revenue from FB and BB to subsidize other sports at the universities when the graduation for AA FB and BB is dismal. Those athletes need help the most and it cost money. They make money for the universities and a big chunk of that money is being to subsidize other sports. and the overwhelming majority of the non-revenue sports are non-AA athletes. It is a version of modern day plantation if you ask me.

Graduation rates are the responsibility of each school. If they fall below a certain threshold they get sanctioned. I don't recall OSU getting is NCAA trouble for poor graduation rates.
There are rules in the NCAA rule book about low graduation rate but there are also ways to "work-around" the rules to avoid getting in trouble. Most Unversities are doing exactly just that. My company does some lobbying works with the US government and the government has the rule forbidding lawmakers from having accepting gifts from lobbyists for things like letting lobbyists paying meals at expensive restaurants, sitting down. You know how lobbyists get around the rule. They have meals at the bar which does not apply by this rule. I hope you get it. The NCAA is very much like the US house or US Senate ethic committee where they police themselves. It is like asking a thief to be honest.

P5 athletes do get extra food. Healthcare for injuries during sport are covered, the NCAA has additional insurance options for those who want it.
That's absolutely FALSE. You should watch HBO Real Sport and see that some injured athletes go on government Medicaid after their NCAA healthcare coverage stops. About purchasing the NCAA additional insurance options, well, tell that to AA kids who come from poor background and housing projects. How can they purchase additional insurance options if they do not have money? The schools could have purchased additional insurances for them with revenues from FB and BB but the schools rather spend that money on non-revenue sports and athletes. Is that fair to you?
 
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