In my humble opinion, if Rafa wins Open...

[MichaelNadal]

Ralph can't be goat with his muddy resume. :lol:

Even I can agree with you on this.

 

[Phoenix1983]

Start with the gaping hole in your claim above, as Federer has not overshadowed "everything"--and certainly not the most important of all tennis achievements.

And what would be "the most important of all tennis achievements", the one which makes a player GOAT?

It surely, according to THUNDERVOLLEY, can't be the CYGS, since Don Budge won that in 1938, yet is not GOAT according to this particular poster.

Rational posters are thus left wondering what this so-called supreme achievement could be.

 

[Tenez101]

He still would need a year end championship for formality's sake, but otherwise yes, I agree.

 

[ubi1]

And what would be "the most important of all tennis achievements", the one which makes a player GOAT?

It surely, according to THUNDERVOLLEY, can't be the CYGS, since Don Budge won that in 1938, yet is not GOAT according to this particular poster.

Rational posters are thus left wondering what this so-called supreme achievement could be.

2 CYGS AND 7 CONSECUTIVE YEARS AT NO.1. :twisted::evil:

 

[ubi1]

He still would need a year end championship for formality's sake, but otherwise yes, I agree.

2015 will be the last year they play WTF indoor hard. Imagine in 2016 its clay for once. Would be great don't you think?

 

[Russeljones]

Start with the gaping hole in your claim above, as Federer has not overshadowed "everything"--and certainly not the most important of all tennis achievements.

You mean beating a field of amateurs in a 48 man Open nobody NOT Australian visited? Astonishing feat.

 

[RNadal]

This discussion once again? Geez..

 

[tennisaddict]

I think we have to start looking at him as greatest of all time. Yes, he'd still be 4 majors behind Roger but...look at this.

1) Roger was able to win just the one French on his worst surface (and didn't have to play Rafa) but Rafa will have two US Opens in his toughest event.

2) Rafa has lifetime 84% winning percentage to Roger's 81%.

3) Rafa is 21-10 head to head against Roger...21-10. That is huge. Rafa has won 68% of their battles.

4) Roger is 21-13 in Masters' finals. Rafa is 26-11. (Yes Roger has a huge edge in year end championship finals)

5) Rafa has won the Gold Medal in singles. Roger has not.

6) Rafa has higher winning percentage against the best player (Novak) over the last 7 years than Roger

7) Over the next best player of the last 7-8 years (Andy Murray), Rafa is
HANDS DOWN superior...13-5 vs Roger's 9-11.

These are COMPELLING stats. And, remember...Rafa is 27 years old. He'll be winning some more tournaments. Roger is 32 and might be done. Based on their OVERALL body of work...Rafa gets the nod as greatest of all time, in my humble opinion.

The stats you are refer are compelling only for Rafa fans , since he does not yet have the ones which are really relevant to be considered the top.

Your stats of H2H and winning percentage all goes down with age. Number of majors that you win is the real deal as that increases with every major that you win.

There is no point having a H2H advantage over the top 4 or top 30. Did you ultimately win the major or not ? If Rafa keeps winning against Fed, Murray and Novak but keeps losing to Ferrer, Tsonga, Darcis, Rosol, etc., he is not going to make the magic number of 18.

 

[Phoenix1983]

2 CYGS AND 7 CONSECUTIVE YEARS AT NO.1. :twisted::evil:

No one's denying Laver's potential claim to GOAThood, btw.

What is being argued is that the CYGS is not the be-all and end-all of GOAThood, which is evident by the omission of Budge from such status by TV.

 

[SoCalJay]

I think we have to start looking at him as greatest of all time. Yes, he'd still be 4 majors behind Roger but...look at this.

1) Roger was able to win just the one French on his worst surface (and didn't have to play Rafa) but Rafa will have two US Opens in his toughest event.

2) Rafa has lifetime 84% winning percentage to Roger's 81%.

3) Rafa is 21-10 head to head against Roger...21-10. That is huge. Rafa has won 68% of their battles.

4) Roger is 21-13 in Masters' finals. Rafa is 26-11. (Yes Roger has a huge edge in year end championship finals)

5) Rafa has won the Gold Medal in singles. Roger has not.

6) Rafa has higher winning percentage against the best player (Novak) over the last 7 years than Roger

7) Over the next best player of the last 7-8 years (Andy Murray), Rafa is
HANDS DOWN superior...13-5 vs Roger's 9-11.

These are COMPELLING stats. And, remember...Rafa is 27 years old. He'll be winning some more tournaments. Roger is 32 and might be done. Based on their OVERALL body of work...Rafa gets the nod as greatest of all time, in my humble opinion.

No. Leave the horse alone, it doesn't need to be beaten more than once or twice a day. Thanks.

 

[ubi1]

No one's denying Laver's potential claim to GOAThood, btw.

What is being argued is that the CYGS is not the be-all and end-all of GOAThood, which is evident by the omission of Budge from such status by TV.

Well Laver achieved this CYGS twice. And this record has stood the test of time. Also 7 consecutive years at no.1. Moreover from 1962-1968 for 6 years laver was banned from playing grand slams thats 22-28 a tennis players best years and despite his peak years off he still managed to earn 11 slams. Laver was the most Dominant champion of any era you cannot go against him.

 

[Tenez101]

2015 will be the last year they play WTF indoor hard. Imagine in 2016 its clay for once. Would be great don't you think?

Sounds interesting. :twisted:

 

[ubi1]

Sounds interesting. :twisted:

But who know's if he carry's on playing good on hardcourts he may just win it this year or the next...

 

[Shroud]

Does anyone remember when a 11-20+ shot rally was a battle and a treat to watch as the point was crucial to the situation fairly often. Now a 15-20 shot rally is the norm and short points are seen as dominant events.

I always wonder how the landscape would look if the top 100 had to play with 90's tennis racquets without co polyester strings (Luxilon, RPM blast, and Pro Hurricane among others)

Tennis has become about who can get the highest percentage game with the least unforced errors along with the least winners + the highest mobility achievable by that particular player.

Do we as fans really want every player to be like Simon, Monfils, and Murray among others?

is there an emoticon for cringing??

I think Yannic Noah said something about living life with passion and equated it to net play. I think he is right. They said Sampras was a robot but Murray makes pete look like Richard Simmons on speed.

And what is all this talk about Serve Serve Serve. You had some of the best returners in the game to give the serve volleyers fits. That Agassi/ Sampras dynamic is what is missing now adays. Rafa isnt know for his serve so no wonder he talks bad about players with big serves.

Anyhow its clear to me that Pete had the biggest weapons and at his best would beat Fed and Rafa on a reasonably fast surface. Even Fed dominates rafa on quick surfaces and is unbeaten on carpet against Nadal.

 

[fastgrass]

I think we have to start looking at him as greatest of all time. Yes, he'd still be 4 majors behind Roger but...look at this.

1) Roger was able to win just the one French on his worst surface (and didn't have to play Rafa) but Rafa will have two US Opens in his toughest event.

2) Rafa has lifetime 84% winning percentage to Roger's 81%.

3) Rafa is 21-10 head to head against Roger...21-10. That is huge. Rafa has won 68% of their battles.

4) Roger is 21-13 in Masters' finals. Rafa is 26-11. (Yes Roger has a huge edge in year end championship finals)

5) Rafa has won the Gold Medal in singles. Roger has not.

6) Rafa has higher winning percentage against the best player (Novak) over the last 7 years than Roger

7) Over the next best player of the last 7-8 years (Andy Murray), Rafa is
HANDS DOWN superior...13-5 vs Roger's 9-11.

These are COMPELLING stats. And, remember...Rafa is 27 years old. He'll be winning some more tournaments. Roger is 32 and might be done. Based on their OVERALL body of work...Rafa gets the nod as greatest of all time, in my humble opinion.

In my humble opinion-
17>12
302>102
24>17
23>6
6>0
7>2
5>1
4>1
10>5
77>59
111>81
3*3>3*1
4*4>>4*0

This list never ends !!
so you are just gorilla fan trying to claim him GOAT
by one sided arguments

 

[beast of mallorca]

^Hold on to your horses buddy. You forgot 32 > 27.
he'll beat th0se, no worries .......................:twisted: