In/Out Device

R1FF

Professional
hello ,
i received a v2 also and tested it twice on serve practice.
The shell seems more solid and there are reinforcements around the cameras (less pop out i guess)
First results seems ok for calling , and for speed most of the time .
Stats seem accurate also.
More to come i hope.
Keep the updates coming. Im really interested in this unit.
 

R1FF

Professional
It's definitely got issues with shadows/poor lightning and when you block the sight of the camera. I'm not sure what else you'd expect from a single POV system. I'd rather focus on the fact that the calls you need help with are generally speaking not the ones that the device has issues with. Most singles players struggle to call serves correctly and side lines that are away from the action. This device seems to handle those things well. I really don't need assistance calling the baseline. I'll tell you that after using a playsight court with 7 cameras for the last year that it will still miss a bunch of calls. It requires constant tuning and maintenance. The playsight court is setup on clay so it's pretty obvious when it misses the call.
I plan on getting the v2 with both post cameras and two baseline mini cameras.

It's gonna cost about $600 but if it works it will be well worth it.

I dont care if it misses the occasional call. Humans do so plenty. The difference is that when the computer misses the call, it's without bias. The computer does not know when it's a big point or not. Whereas everyone's human eye has inherent bias based on the context of the point in question.

If this thing is 95% accurate, I'll be happy as heck because that's about on par with the human eye in a casual match. The fact that the mistakes would be impartial makes it automatically better than just eye balling calls. And if this thing can be 96% or better, then it's way better than calling our own lines.
 

TagUrIt

Hall of Fame
I have the first version. I enjoyed using it for practice, but haven’t made much use of it in game situations. I would say the majority of the calls are accurate. I’d invest in version two especially with the new line devices.
 

TagUrIt

Hall of Fame
Just FYI. I ordered the first version. It kept crashing. I sent it back for repair. Its still crashing and now he ignores my emails.

That’s very disappointing to hear. Especially with such a small company, word of mouth can be detrimental. He should have sent a replacement unit immediately.
 

mrmoonball

New User
That’s very disappointing to hear. Especially with such a small company, word of mouth can be detrimental. He should have sent a replacement unit immediately.
Yeah, he might be smart when it comes to innovation but not when it comes to business. I was the first one in my city to buy the device. Everyone I've shown it have been curious and asking if it's any good. Now I can only respond "nope, it's a waste of money and the guy stops responding". It's probably minimum 10 extra sales he lost thanks to my bad word of mouth.
 

CarterStC

New User
I received a refund after threatening to sue him under California implied warranty law. I'm glad that I got out of it because it was a piece of junk!
 

mmk

Hall of Fame
A semi-regular opponent bought the second version and asked if I'd like to play on an indoor hardcourt and see how well it would work. He had previously used it on a hartru court in a bubble, and said that he really had to clean the lines for it to register correctly. On the hardcourt it didn't take long to register, and during warmup I didn't notice any errors. But during the match there were a few serves that it called out that were clearly in, I mean within the service line, not on the line or back of the line. Those were on both ends of the court, but always on the service box farthest from the device.

It also called a few shots out that we both saw as in, but they were mostly in the corners farthest from the device. In one case he hit a shot down the line that landed halfway between the service line and baseline, and a good 6 inches inside the line that the device called out. Again, it was on the side opposite of the device. And there were a few instances of balls that were definitely out that it didn't call.

Even though he had been charging it prior to the match, it must not have been fully charged, because it only lasted about an hour. I don't know the level of charge prior to the match, and I don't know if the fact he was recording the match made it drain the battery quicker. I haven't heard back from him yet to see if the recording and stats were retained with the power loss.

He is planning on buying the baseline sensors, and may end up buying a second in/out. To me, as it works currently, you'd need to have a main unit on each side, and baseline sensors, and even then it would be like buying a good drone for personal use - interesting, but more of a fun toy than a tool. Maybe the recording and stats would be worthwhile for some, but not for me.

If it were more accurate, it might be a good purchase for our club, but they'd have to run power to the courts to keep them from needing to be charged, and do it in a way that didn't result in any cords on the court, so that would be extra expense, probably much more than the cost of the devices and baseline sensors.
 
I plan on getting the v2 with both post cameras and two baseline mini cameras.

It's gonna cost about $600 but if it works it will be well worth it.

I dont care if it misses the occasional call. Humans do so plenty. The difference is that when the computer misses the call, it's without bias. The computer does not know when it's a big point or not. Whereas everyone's human eye has inherent bias based on the context of the point in question.

If this thing is 95% accurate, I'll be happy as heck because that's about on par with the human eye in a casual match. The fact that the mistakes would be impartial makes it automatically better than just eye balling calls. And if this thing can be 96% or better, then it's way better than calling our own lines.
The problem us that people lose confidence in something that does not agree with their own calls that they see as obvious. That is my experience in using them with other players.

I have overturned bad calls with the replay. Unfortunately, the replay is not always available because it sometimes just misses making any call.

I turn off the green light and the sound because people feel it is a distraction.

The owner once complained to me that I was costing him too much money and refused to honor a warranty. I suspect he has cash flow issues.

Given that the hardware no longer seems to be supported, I could not recommend it to anyone. Even the smartwatch app is old and broken so it needs to be side loaded.
 

R1FF

Professional
The problem us that people lose confidence in something that does not agree with their own calls that they see as obvious. That is my experience in using them with other players.
Here's my counter to that tho, you ever just stand and watch people play a match? They consistently MISS calls.

Im not sure I care what their confidence is in considering they are way to confident in their own calls.

Even if this device is not fool proof, it's impartial. That is an upgrade over what we are all dealing with when letting each other make calls imo.
 
I am not arguing your point, I am giving you my experience. People do not like it for that reason. I agree it is not rational but everyone is above average.
 

R1FF

Professional
I am not arguing your point, I am giving you my experience. People do not like it for that reason. I agree it is not rational but everyone is above average.
Gotcha. I do appreciate your insight.

I also wonder tho with v2 and the added sensors, if accuracy improves? And if so, would thar alleviate concerns?

Are there any youtube reviews of the product?
 

RayF

New User
there is a fundamental flaw with both v1 and v2 in that you need multiples devices for proper lines calls and they they don't work when the sun shines into any one of the devices - this will happen very frequently unless you're indoors
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
That would be really cool if when a close line call comes up in an important league match, we can go, ‘hold on, let’s go check the shot-spot.’
 
I just read on his site that he seems to be using a new chip. I really want to like this product and see it succeed but I just see no evidence that I would not be throwing away another $600 on devices. I cannot even get a recording out of them most of the time, which I found to be very useful.
 
I've studied motion detection using cameras. There is no way with one camera on a post or two on alternate fences at the low angle to the court they would be at can possibly triangulate the location of a ball down to the accuracy claimed. I bought one. It was a piece of garbage. It kept not detecting balls properly and In/Out's feedback was only that I didn't know how to set it up. He wouldn't give me a refund. No wonder his warranty is only 6 months. A total waste of time and money. As far as I am concerned the guy is selling prototypes.

To do it properly you need more than one technology working at the same time to detect the ball location. That's why Hawkeye costs $80K.
 
I’m not sure about motion Detection but I’m pretty certain it slows down the image and makes the call which I think if you have the right cpu in it, Or whatever the hell you have in one of those things, It could do it.

So I don’t think it is as simple as the devices motion detection or rather the usual motion detection. I imagine it’s a matter of just slowing down the image Making a decision on how quick the device can do that maybe. FPS and all that stuff. I have no Idea what I’m talking about but it makes a lot of sense that it would be that rather than Been able to decide if the ball is in at the raw speed it’s capturing
Yes the technology used is definitely motion detection as you have to detect the motion of the ball in order to capture it in the image in order to analyze the location of it. Raw speed capture has nothing to do with it.

But one thing you are right about is that you have have no idea what you are talking about.
 

TagUrIt

Hall of Fame
Any updates from people using this device?
After updating both devices, I just used mine for the first time in a LONG time. I have to say it worked extremely well. I played a singles match with a good friend and she and I were both very impressed with it. It might have made 2-3 errors at most during 2 hours of matchplay. I am considering buying the line devices, but I haven’t decided just yet.
 

JEDI MASTER

Semi-Pro
I have version 2 and works great for those lines to close to call.
maybe I should stop using this.. before my son always calls my out serves in... :laughing:
 

TagUrIt

Hall of Fame
How does it function for video, statistics etc. Is it helpful (albeit prob painful to watch self). ?
I have only used mine a handful of times, I haven’t dabbled around with the extra features. I’m definitely under-using it. The device can probably do a lot more than what I’m using it for.
 

smboogie

Semi-Pro
I've studied motion detection using cameras. There is no way with one camera on a post or two on alternate fences at the low angle to the court they would be at can possibly triangulate the location of a ball down to the accuracy claimed. I bought one. It was a piece of garbage. It kept not detecting balls properly and In/Out's feedback was only that I didn't know how to set it up. He wouldn't give me a refund. No wonder his warranty is only 6 months. A total waste of time and money. As far as I am concerned the guy is selling prototypes.

To do it properly you need more than one technology working at the same time to detect the ball location. That's why Hawkeye costs $80K.
If Hawkeye is down to $80k that's nice. I recall reading years ago it was a $200k+ install.
 

Alex_Dnepr

New User
Thanks to everyone who shared their experience with this device. For a long time I could not decide whether to order it or not, but still decided to try it.
The devices of version 3.0 just went on sale. I ordered a kit with two net devices and two line devices. I look forward to delivery and will share my impressions later
 

loosegroove

Hall of Fame
Thanks to everyone who shared their experience with this device. For a long time I could not decide whether to order it or not, but still decided to try it.
The devices of version 3.0 just went on sale. I ordered a kit with two net devices and two line devices. I look forward to delivery and will share my impressions later
Really? After reading about all the issues, I'm surprised this product is still in production.
 

loosegroove

Hall of Fame
what (major) issues do you know of that haven't been remedied?

I have this device (the 1.1 version) and it is definitely not perfect, but I feel like his frequent firmware updates have helped a lot.
I haven't kept up on the device at all to be honest. But initially reading through this thread however long ago, it seemed many were unhappy. So I'm surprised that such a niche product survived, though of course I'm rooting for it to succeed.
 

Alex_Dnepr

New User
Really? After reading about all the issues, I'm surprised this product is still in production.
It seemed to me that the main problems were with the owners of the first version of the device and those who played on surfaces with poor lighting. All areas where I play have good lighting and have no shadow problems
I wanted to buy this device last year, then it seemed to me not yet ready. I have high hopes for version 3.0. I hope they come true
 

smboogie

Semi-Pro
V3.0 looks like a good update to hardware and software. On the other side of the spectrum is SwingVision that uses smartphone camera & software. I'm suspicious of how one camera can do this but software can do amazing things ;)

A comparison between these two solutions would be very interesting. I would really like to see facilities/clubs getting into this solution. I think it would be fun to have a system like these on a court or two for challenge play that would call the lines over a speaker, like in a pro match. With the ATP/WTA potentially looking at hawkeye to replace lines people in some tourneys, maybe this is the future path of tennis.

I will say that many will not accept the calls b/c they are so used to their friends calling the lines too generously, it's why there are often 'exchanges' during league play.
 

BobbyR

Rookie
I haven't kept up on the device at all to be honest. But initially reading through this thread however long ago, it seemed many were unhappy. So I'm surprised that such a niche product survived, though of course I'm rooting for it to succeed.
Count me in as being extremely unhappy. I ended up throwing it in my electronics recycling pile. The company was no help in making it work. The owner of the company told me that the warranty was only 6 months because it was a new product and still in beta. Yet, 3 years after introduction the warranty is still 6 months. This company has very little integrity and I am never going to buy a product again with a 6-month warranty.

My money is on SwingVision now.
 

Alex_Dnepr

New User
Yesterday, there was the first experience of using the kit version 3.0 (2 net devices + 2 line devices)
I ordered it on February 20, and received my order on April 13. Delivery from the USA to Ukraine is a kind of horror.
Regarding the device itself ... there will not be a full review yet. I have too many questions now))) I need to read the instructions a few more times and I think most of the questions will disappear.
First impressions are positive. During the training process, there were several points that always caused questions and controversy. Now, the device clearly identifies them.
One of the network devices turned off 3 times in a little more than an hour of training. This greatly upset and alarmed. I have already contacted the seller on this issue and am waiting for his reply.
 

Alex_Dnepr

New User
So, for more than a week I have been testing the version 3.0 kit, and if the first impression was positive, and I attributed all the shortcomings to incorrect device settings, now the attitude towards the device is extremely negative. A huge number of mistakes in determining the ball hitting the court. Devices keep turning off or freezing. With such an accuracy in determining the ball hit, the statistics and analytics of the match in the application are completely useless.
 

TagUrIt

Hall of Fame
So, for more than a week I have been testing the version 3.0 kit, and if the first impression was positive, and I attributed all the shortcomings to incorrect device settings, now the attitude towards the device is extremely negative. A huge number of mistakes in determining the ball hitting the court. Devices keep turning off or freezing. With such an accuracy in determining the ball hit, the statistics and analytics of the match in the application are completely useless.
Sorry to hear you’re having a bad experience with your In/Out, but thanks for sharing with the rest of us. I have version 1 and I thought about getting this new one because I thought it might be better. I see now, it would be a huge waste of money. Not to mention the customer service seems to be horrible. What kind of owner doesn’t stand behind his product?
 

Alex_Dnepr

New User
Sorry to hear you’re having a bad experience with your In/Out, but thanks for sharing with the rest of us. I have version 1 and I thought about getting this new one because I thought it might be better. I see now, it would be a huge waste of money. Not to mention the customer service seems to be horrible. What kind of owner doesn’t stand behind his product?
Interestingly, if you use two net devices in pair, then there is complete chaos. If you leave one device and 2 line devices, then the situation becomes a little better. The net device stops turning off for no reason and video replays are available.
During the last match, the device simply did not detect half of my hits. As a result of the match, my opponent made 50% more punches)))
Line devices also work strangely. To be precise, I do not understand at all whether they work or not. I turn them on, configure them, they connect to the main devices, but how they determine the hit into the court remains a mystery to me.
 

Mike T

New User
It's interesting/sad that it seems Mr. Gentil (Inventor) provides zero support of his product here. I really would like to buy an In/Out, but the negative far outweighs the positive.
 
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JEDI MASTER

Semi-Pro
started using mine again after a year in the bag...

my version 2 has been shutting down during play...
i emailed Customer support and after a day... replied:

If the screen is black, most likely the battery has shutdown the unit.
Light and shadow wouldn't impact the device.

Batteries are like living organisms. The more you are using them, the better they perform. If you let them away for 6 months and just do a full charge, it won't be fully charged,

The In/Out team


I've cycled the batteries a couple times over the weekend...charge and discharged..

will take it out today.. and hopefully stay on for a set or two...
 

Alex_Dnepr

New User
If the screen is black, most likely the battery has shutdown the unit.
Light and shadow wouldn't impact the device.

Batteries are like living organisms. The more you are using them, the better they perform
the support service wrote this to me too. Only did this phrase seem strange to me? It turns out that the more often you use the battery, the better it works ... How do you like that, Elon Musk?)))

If I can download it, I want to try to install the previous version of the firmware. Maybe this will somehow improve the situation.
 

JEDI MASTER

Semi-Pro
it's alive.. it's alive!...

Stayed on for a good 2hrs today...

battery just needed to be cycled a few times after hybernation from the lockdown...
 

Alex_Dnepr

New User
An amazing thing happened today. I slightly changed the sequence of connecting the device and it started working normally! Fair! In some amazing way, everything started to work. Yes, there were a couple of negative points, but overall, the device finally started to do what it was bought for.
 
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