In praise of Kevlar/ZX hybrid!!!

#1
I'm 4 sessions (approx 8 hours) into my experiment with this string combo. Strung kevlar mains at 60 and Zyex crosses at 40 Lbs (in my Angell 95). Wow!!! Easy spin, with proper technique. Extreme control. Absolutely 0 discomfort. I can't recommend this combo highly enough.

There were a few areas that took some adjustment. Touch volleys were a little tough at first due the dead nature of this string bed, but they are coming nicely. Slice derived volleys were also a little tough because i was putting too much underspin on the ball. My first serve is developing nicely but was a little tough at first, this is made up for because my kick 2nd serve is on point.

I'm not advocating that this is combo for every player, but if you have long developed full strokes (like you should for non whip shots) you have to give this a try.

Let me know if you have any questions and go order a set.

Special thanks to Graycait for hooking me up with this amazing combo.
 
#2
I'm 4 sessions (approx 8 hours) into my experiment with this string combo. Strung kevlar mains at 60 and Zyex crosses at 40 Lbs (in my Angell 95). Wow!!! Easy spin, with proper technique. Extreme control. Absolutely 0 discomfort. I can't recommend this combo highly enough.

There were a few areas that took some adjustment. Touch volleys were a little tough at first due the dead nature of this string bed, but they are coming nicely. Slice derived volleys were also a little tough because i was putting too much underspin on the ball. My first serve is developing nicely but was a little tough at first, this is made up for because my kick 2nd serve is on point.

I'm not advocating that this is combo for every player, but if you have long developed full strokes (like you should for non whip shots) you have to give this a try.

Let me know if you have any questions and go order a set.

Special thanks to Graycait for hooking me up with this amazing combo.
What zyex did you use? And what's the cheapest zyex

I'm in need of zyex crosses, but it's so expensive
 
#3
Ashway Monogut ZX 16 in the natural color. I think, please correct me if I'm wrong, that Ashway is the only company currently selling Zyex string.
 
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#5
Ashway Monogut ZX 16 in the natural color. I think, please correct me if I'm wrong, that Ashway is the only company currently selling Zyex string.
Zyex has been produced by multiple string brands (Gamma, Prince, Ashaway, Klipper, etc), but the type of Zyex that would do well in that setup is the monofilament zyex from Ashaway, namely Monogut ZX.
 
#8
Klippermate has a version of it called Klippermate Zyex and comes in 16 or 17 gauge. I got a set of it when I didn't really have a great feel for strings. It was similar to Ashaways version, but I think the Klippermate had a softer feel to it. I had it in a full bed of an O3 White, it ended up fraying pretty badly but held on and played well until it's demise. I thought it was way better than most of the multis on the market. I may have to order another set of both and have a new playtest. I have liked every zyex string I have tried, definitely worth the money to test them out IMO. That sounds like an interesting hybrid of Kevlar/zyex, glad you are enjoying it, and thanks to graycait for your information (one of your posts inspired me to do the Nat gut/Zyex hybrid, it was extremely comfortable, and plays well)
 

ricardo

Hall of Fame
#9
Zyex-Don't get confused!!!

There are many different zyex strings marketed by different companies.
Ashaway themselves markets different zyex strings.
Different zyex strings perform differently from each other.

When you see Kevlar/Zyex hybrid the cross most probably refer to Ashaway Monogut ZX.
If you use another type of zyex cross, you would most probably get a very different result.
 
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topspn

Hall of Fame
#10
Which TC95 do you have? The 63RA or 70RA? Kevlar at 60lbs sounds insane no matter the tension of the crosses? Are you sure kevlar at lower tensions wouldn't work better? Did you get a hybrid string pack or just purchased each string separately? If the playability is that good, why don't pros use it?
 
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#11
Which TC95 do you have? The 63RA or 70RA? Kevlar at 60lbs sounds insane no matter the tension of the crosses? Are you sure kevlar at lower tensions wouldn't work better? Did you get a hybrid string pack or just purchased each string separately? If the playability is that good, why don't pros use it?
Pros can use new poly every time they hit. We can't, so the playability isn't as good as poly initially, but they play the same for the entire life.

Kevlar at a high tension with crosses at a very low tension is great. The string beds stiffness will be attributed to the crosses not the mains in this setup since Kevlar is inelastic
 

topspn

Hall of Fame
#13
I am not convinced of your arguments of the kevlar hybrid. I think the longevity argument alone is not enough of me. However I will invest in an ashaway hybrid pack of kevlar crossfire ZX and try it out on my TC97. I'm intrigued and only trying out first hand will settle the question for me. I once played an ex division 1 guy who played 1st spot for Wisconsin and he had the most wicked topspin i've seen. He played the kevlar hybrid and sang its praises like you guys.
 
#14
I am not convinced of your arguments of the kevlar hybrid. I think the longevity argument alone is not enough of me. However I will invest in an ashaway hybrid pack of kevlar crossfire ZX and try it out on my TC97. I'm intrigued and only trying out first hand will settle the question for me. I once played an ex division 1 guy who played 1st spot for Wisconsin and he had the most wicked topspin i've seen. He played the kevlar hybrid and sang its praises like you guys.
It's amazing, I use a 55 main 45 cross.

Try that out and see for yourself, but for more exaggerated spin use 15+ difference with mains being higher
 
#16
Which TC95 do you have? The 63RA or 70RA? Kevlar at 60lbs sounds insane no matter the tension of the crosses? Are you sure kevlar at lower tensions wouldn't work better? Did you get a hybrid string pack or just purchased each string separately? If the playability is that good, why don't pros use it?
Couple of things

1.The 20 lb differential reduces the tension significantly due to the racket squashing

2. The monogut zx has gutlike softness so the stringbed is softer than you think

3. The monogut zx allows snapback so the impact is not as harsh as a kev/syngut hybrid would be

Fwiw the last racket i strung was kev/lux big banger (i think) st 86/84lbs in my 70 ra racket
 

topspn

Hall of Fame
#17
Couple of things

1.The 20 lb differential reduces the tension significantly due to the racket squashing

2. The monogut zx has gutlike softness so the stringbed is softer than you think

3. The monogut zx allows snapback so the impact is not as harsh as a kev/syngut hybrid would be

Fwiw the last racket i strung was kev/lux big banger (i think) st 86/84lbs in my 70 ra racket
Ok, but I'm trying at 60/40lbs Crossfire monogut ZX pack. I hate high tension and play somewhere in 45-48lbs with full poly. I know some people like the very high tension feel but not me even even if the string bed is fairly soft.
 

topspn

Hall of Fame
#18
Ashaway Monogut ZX article by Ashaway...
http://www.ashawayusa.com/Polyketone8.php

This article is quite long.
It talks about why poly's work for top pros but not for recreational players
and why Monogut ZX might be the poly for recreational players.
I tried a full bed and while its very comfortable, decent control and good spin it still is not match at all for my favorite poly quadro twist
 
#20
Klippermate has a version of it called Klippermate Zyex and comes in 16 or 17 gauge. I got a set of it when I didn't really have a great feel for strings. It was similar to Ashaways version, but I think the Klippermate had a softer feel to it. I had it in a full bed of an O3 White, it ended up fraying pretty badly but held on and played well until it's demise. I thought it was way better than most of the multis on the market. I may have to order another set of both and have a new playtest. I have liked every zyex string I have tried, definitely worth the money to test them out IMO. That sounds like an interesting hybrid of Kevlar/zyex, glad you are enjoying it, and thanks to graycait for your information (one of your posts inspired me to do the Nat gut/Zyex hybrid, it was extremely comfortable, and plays well)
monogut zx doesnt fray and its different than other zyex strings. AFAIK Ashaway makes 4 zyex strings and the monogut zx is not like any of the others, which do fray.
 
#21
No, the Klippermate Zyex version frayed...badly :) I should have taken a picture (I may have, but I would have to dig through about 1,500 pics I took) it was white and Ashaway's was black (the one I have, currently strung in, another O3 White (I have a few). I have only tried Ashaway Dynamite natural (it was greenish) it was extremely comfortable, but the strings moved all over the place. Monogut ZX, which I put it in a full bed, I actually like it, and it hasn't frayed at all, extremely comfortable, and Monogut ZX Pro, (I think it is just a smaller gauge, unfortunately, strung it in a hybrid with natural gut, but it felt the same as the Monogut ZX, just a smaller gauge. I think you are correct in Ashaway has 4 Zyex strings. But the Klippermate version felt a little softer, less ping, BUT, it frayed. (it was in the beginning of my stringing skills, and I MAY have had the clamps too tight) but looking at the stringbed, the strings looked like they were coming apart...I am actually going to see if I took a pic.

Edit: I wrote the above thing weirdly (it was late) and I can see how it may have looked like I said the Ashaway frayed. I just didn't clarify, I was speaking about the Klippermate version :)

EDIT number 2, I just saw where Graycait, said Klippermate's was a multizyex! Now the world is complete!! It all makes sense now! Sorry for this confusing *** post
 

v-verb

Hall of Fame
#22
Look for posts from v-verb. Iirc he plays thst combo in the 40s
I have and it works beautifully. Presently I'm using a different setup (KPS88, Cyclone 19 mains 18 kg, Mosquito Bite cross 16 kg). Not sue which combo I like more but the kevlar/monogut is great at about 40 lbs.
 
#23
I just strung up some 18G Ashaway Kevlar x 17G Monogut ZX in a Volkl V1 Midplus (16x19, 102" x 67 RA - great old man racket) at 54/50. I'm hoping it plays sort of like my Golden Set Snakebite in the mains x Golden Set Power Cord 50/50lbs in the crosses set up in a twin racket. Both rackets are weighted to 11.8 strung. I surely like 2-4 hour shaped poly x smooth poly but if I can get something in Kevlar x Zyex that plays close enough to that poly set-up I will be a happy man. I didn't prestretch the zyex this time, just pulled the crank on my Neos 1000 slow, then counted to 5 before locking it out.
 

topspn

Hall of Fame
#26
I have and it works beautifully. Presently I'm using a different setup (KPS88, Cyclone 19 mains 18 kg, Mosquito Bite cross 16 kg). Not sue which combo I like more but the kevlar/monogut is great at about 40 lbs.
You strung up at the same tension kevlar/ZX hybrid? @40lbs?
 
#28
Couple of things

1.The 20 lb differential reduces the tension significantly due to the racket squashing
This. I'm not interested in squashing my rackets. 20lb differential between mains and cross is straight abuse of the frames. Crosses are already getting strung at lover actual tension due to friction from the mains on pulls, you can go maybe 5lb lower still but 20 lbs is rediculous.
 
#29
This. I'm not interested in squashing my rackets. 20lb differential between mains and cross is straight abuse of the frames. Crosses are already getting strung at lover actual tension due to friction from the mains on pulls, you can go maybe 5lb lower still but 20 lbs is rediculous.
All I can say is that it doesnt hurt the frames. And there are posters doing 50lb differential.

FWIW there are hybrids with poly crosses that at some point the poly looses tension and well I bet the difference is at least 20lbs. Think gut/ poly. Gut holds tension and poly doesnt, etc. At least the kev/zx combo has similar tension loss characteristics.

Anyhow i think its clear that the racket squashes a similar amount during stringing so they make sure the racket can handle it and in no way gets abused.

Its a truism that the Prince oport rackets are probably the weakest frames from an integrity standpoint. yet I stung a warrior at 75/55lbs IIRC and that frame is fine.

Do what you want, but the benefits for me are worth any potential abuse to the frame (which I have never experienced in over a year of doing differentials.

And well I am also stringing 20lbs over the tension limit on my frames with no issues...
 
#30
All I can say is that it doesnt hurt the frames. And there are posters doing 50lb differential.

FWIW there are hybrids with poly crosses that at some point the poly looses tension and well I bet the difference is at least 20lbs. Think gut/ poly. Gut holds tension and poly doesnt, etc. At least the kev/zx combo has similar tension loss characteristics.

Anyhow i think its clear that the racket squashes a similar amount during stringing so they make sure the racket can handle it and in no way gets abused.

Its a truism that the Prince oport rackets are probably the weakest frames from an integrity standpoint. yet I stung a warrior at 75/55lbs IIRC and that frame is fine.

Do what you want, but the benefits for me are worth any potential abuse to the frame (which I have never experienced in over a year of doing differentials.

And well I am also stringing 20lbs over the tension limit on my frames with no issues...
I had a few Prince Tours 18x20- they are of softer flex and squashed noticeably after a few string jobs, became very round looking due to main/cross differential.

Jolly, our local racket snapper also testifies that Kevlar mains have been really rough for the frames.
 
#31
This. I'm not interested in squashing my rackets. 20lb differential between mains and cross is straight abuse of the frames. Crosses are already getting strung at lover actual tension due to friction from the mains on pulls, you can go maybe 5lb lower still but 20 lbs is rediculous.
Quite possibly, but I can be a very hard hitter and I have noticed absolutely no detriment to my frames. So any detriment would be perceived because if has certainly not been realized yet. As a result I praise this stringing method.

Give it a shot, you may hate it or you may find yourself in the same situation as myself, finally finding your dream string setup. I thought it was crazy the first time I read about it on these forums, but after giving it a shot I'm sold.
 
#32
Quite possibly, but I can be a very hard hitter and I have noticed absolutely no detriment to my frames. So any detriment would be perceived because if has certainly not been realized yet. As a result I praise this stringing method.

Give it a shot, you may hate it or you may find yourself in the same situation as myself, finally finding your dream string setup. I thought it was crazy the first time I read about it on these forums, but after giving it a shot I'm sold.
Did you try same strings at smaller tension differential?

If the frame really does squash then there would be diminished returns as it would equalize some tension difference.
 
#33
Did you try same strings at smaller tension differential?

If the frame really does squash then there would be diminished returns as it would equalize some tension difference.
Not yet, but that is something I may play around with in the near future, when my second and third Angell frames arrive. That being said, I am so happy with the present setup, unless the smaller differential brought back just a touch more feel (after playing a couple of more times over the weekend wit this setup, I'm beginning to doubt if the feel was actually affected, it may be just a more muted response) from the string bed, I honestly don't know what benefit would be achieved from such an experiment.
 

topspn

Hall of Fame
#34
Hmm..I'm just concerned these big differentials as well and not a fan of high tension. I play with poly @48lbs so I will experiment. I think with Kevlar/ZX hybrid at 50/40 and see if I like it over my favorite poly.
 
#35
I had a few Prince Tours 18x20- they are of softer flex and squashed noticeably after a few string jobs, became very round looking due to main/cross differential.

Jolly, our local racket snapper also testifies that Kevlar mains have been really rough for the frames.
Guessing that there were no intentional differentials with your Prince tours? It just happened...which I think happens all the time without attention...

I saw posts by Jolly to that point, and I for one am scratching my head. Never had any issues and well all I use is kevlar. I had an affair with gut/zx but totally shredded the gut and well went back to kevlar...

Just dont get it. I string kev at 86lbs...you would think I would have broken every racket based on the posts here....
 
#36
Hmm..I'm just concerned these big differentials as well and not a fan of high tension. I play with poly @48lbs so I will experiment. I think with Kevlar/ZX hybrid at 50/40 and see if I like it over my favorite poly.
do a thorough prestretch of both the kevlar and zx.
 
#37
Not yet, but that is something I may play around with in the near future, when my second and third Angell frames arrive. That being said, I am so happy with the present setup, unless the smaller differential brought back just a touch more feel (after playing a couple of more times over the weekend wit this setup, I'm beginning to doubt if the feel was actually affected, it may be just a more muted response) from the string bed, I honestly don't know what benefit would be achieved from such an experiment.
Lower stress on the racket is worth a try imo. Those Angells ain't cheap :)
 
#38
Hmm..I'm just concerned these big differentials as well and not a fan of high tension. I play with poly @48lbs so I will experiment. I think with Kevlar/ZX hybrid at 50/40 and see if I like it over my favorite poly.
Also try ZX/Poly - I do like that setup over poly.
 
#40
Have you tried it the other way - poly/ZX?
No, just doesn't make sense - I want mains to move and cross is there to let it slide. Because ZX has low dynamic stiffness it makes for softer, more willing to move main string than poly. ZX doesn't make a good cross because it's expensive and cuts through mains even faster than poly, it's more brassy sounding too.

With Kevlar it kinda makes sense since Kevlar main can take the beating and ZX will soften up the stringbed more than poly.
 
#41
I've been stringing with 50-lb differential for the past year (90/40).

One key to protecting the rqcquet is that using kevlar mains is much less stress on the frame than if I used a string with lower stiffness (like gut or nylon).
With kevlar, the frame only has to squash a couple of mm for most of the differential to to be relieved.

Even so, I have gone as high as 25-lb differential with nylon mains (ZX crosses) on an O3 Red with no issue. The only issue when doing this is that the nylon creeps worse than the kevlar, so the differential is almost totally gone quickly. With full poly, I have also gone as high as 25-lb differential (Blade) - no problem with the frame, but the poly crept so much that the "magic" ESP effect only lasted about 30 minutes of hitting time until it played like a conventionally strung full poly bed (even after thoroughly prestretching the poly).

Natural gut mains would probably work better - many people inadvertently create an enormous tension differential (and squash effect on the frame) by stringing gut mains with poly crosses - the gut holds tension, while the poly creeps over time, shortening the frame and gradually making the stringbed more spin-friendly (and softer).
Kevlar/ZX or gut/ZX gives you a way to have the great spin from the beginning with more stable playing characteristics.

Kevlar/ZX at 90/40 lbs fully prestretched is my go-to formula, and I prefer it much more than anything else - both initially and for the long haul. I like it best on denser pattern frames - just switched from my Blade to Graphene Speed Pro 18x20 to get a slightly denser pattern than the Blade, and I'm happy with the move.
 
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topspn

Hall of Fame
#42
I'm speechless with this amazing exaggeration in tension differential. And once again no pro does this that i'm aware of. How do you play with a stringbed that is so stiff even with ZX @40
 
#43
I'm speechless with this amazing exaggeration in tension differential. And once again no pro does this that i'm aware of. How do you play with a stringbed that is so stiff even with ZX @40
It's not that stiff. Do the math: The kevlar is ~4x the stiffness of the ZX, and there is probably only several lbs differential per string at equilibrium (since the vast majority of the stress differential is alleviated when the racquet shortens by a few mm). So when the racquet squashes, the kevlar loses 4lbs for every lb of tension the kevlar gains. So the overall tension for the stringbed is approximately 40 + (90 - 40) x [1/(4 + 1)] = 40 + 50 x 0.2 = 50 lbs. This is assuming zero tension loss (yes, a poor assumption, but it roughly compensates for the equally poor assumption of zero stored energy in the frame).

The other cool thing about this level of extreme differential:
The tension loss in the stringbed is negligible. That is, the kevlar lengthens over time, but the tension of the stringbed remains constant. This is not a violation of physics -- rather, the potential energy stored in the slightly squashed frame is gradually transferred to the string as the main strings lengthen so that the stored potential energy in the stringbed stays constant! Yes this means No tension loss! ==> consistent playing characteristics over time! (I did not notice this constant-tension phenomenon until I made the jump to 50-lb differential -- now that I am enjoying the benefits I don't see myself going back).

Actually, at 90/40 with kevlar/ZX, the overall stringbed tension actually seems to increase slightly over time when I prestretch both the kevlar and the ZX as thoroughly as I do - I should try recording the sound to prove this. There is probably some optimal differential that gives exactly constant stringbed tension, if that was the goal.
 
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#44
I second the ESP string setup using kevlar/monogut zyex combo. Surprisingly not a jarring string setup, some full poly stringbeds are stiffer than kevlar/zyex at 60/45
 
#45
I'm speechless with this amazing exaggeration in tension differential. And once again no pro does this that i'm aware of. How do you play with a stringbed that is so stiff even with ZX @40
Its not stiff

I had a 6.1 95 (18x20) strung with kev/zx at 75/55

Sounds tight right?

The dt measurement was 35! Prefer a dt of at least 52...
 

topspn

Hall of Fame
#46
Alright, so some advice on a good starting point since I have a pack of kev/ZX on the way and will try it out. I plan to try it out in a Angell TC97. This a comfortable and forgiving frame that i string up @48lbs with mostly relativity comfortable polys. I don't like stiff stringbeds and durability cannot be the singular benefit. I have to get some playability attribute better then poly. I am thinking a heavier top spin which I'm already getting a lot of but curious about this setup. I'm thinking i'll string up 60/40 lbs so thoughts positive or negative on this initial setup?
 
#47
It's not that stiff. Do the math: The kevlar is ~4x the stiffness of the ZX, and there is probably only several lbs differential per string at equilibrium (since the vast majority of the stress differential is alleviated when the racquet shortens by a few mm). So when the racquet squashes, the kevlar loses 4lbs for every lb of tension the kevlar gains. So the overall tension for the stringbed is approximately 40 + (90 - 40) x [1/(4 + 1)] = 40 + 50 x 0.2 = 50 lbs. This is assuming zero tension loss (yes, a poor assumption, but it roughly compensates for the equally poor assumption of zero stored energy in the frame).

The other cool thing about this level of extreme differential:
The tension loss in the stringbed is negligible. That is, the kevlar lengthens over time, but the tension of the stringbed remains constant. This is not a violation of physics -- rather, the potential energy stored in the slightly squashed frame is gradually transferred to the string as the main strings lengthen so that the stored potential energy in the stringbed stays constant! Yes this means No tension loss! ==> consistent playing characteristics over time! (I did not notice this constant-tension phenomenon until I made the jump to 50-lb differential -- now that I am enjoying the benefits I don't see myself going back).

Actually, at 90/40 with kevlar/ZX, the overall stringbed tension actually seems to increase slightly over time when I prestretch both the kevlar and the ZX as thoroughly as I do - I should try recording the sound to prove this. There is probably some optimal differential that gives exactly constant stringbed tension, if that was the goal.
This frame squashing business has to be really bad for the frame - I don't see it surviving more than a few stringjobs like that.
 
#48
Alright, so some advice on a good starting point since I have a pack of kev/ZX on the way and will try it out. I plan to try it out in a Angell TC97. This a comfortable and forgiving frame that i string up @48lbs with mostly relativity comfortable polys. I don't like stiff stringbeds and durability cannot be the singular benefit. I have to get some playability attribute better then poly. I am thinking a heavier top spin which I'm already getting a lot of but curious about this setup. I'm thinking i'll string up 60/40 lbs so thoughts positive or negative on this initial setup?
I was at 48 lbs with all poly before I strung this hybrid job at 60/40. Start there, but make sure that the Monogut is pre-stretched well. If your going to take it some where to be strung, I might even do the prestretch yourself (plenty of videos on youtube about how to prestretch without a stringing machine).
 
#49
I'm speechless with this amazing exaggeration in tension differential. And once again no pro does this that i'm aware of. How do you play with a stringbed that is so stiff even with ZX @40
I had the exact same response as yourself. It made absolutely no sense to me, until I tried it. It just works and works brilliantly.
 

topspn

Hall of Fame
#50
I was at 48 lbs with all poly before I strung this hybrid job at 60/40. Start there, but make sure that the Monogut is pre-stretched well. If your going to take it some where to be strung, I might even do the prestretch yourself (plenty of videos on youtube about how to prestretch without a stringing machine).
So what exactly are you getting in your opinion besides the durability?
 
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