In praise of Kevlar/ZX hybrid!!!

emhtennis

Semi-Pro
I play an Angell TC97 18x20 with an 18g (1.18) hexagonal poly at 46-48lbs depending on time of year. What set of crossfire should I try as my first one? and what tension differential should I use?
 

graycrait

Hall of Fame
My friend, a former ranked junior southern region, DII player, has me string his 98" 18x20 Head Rads at 62/62lbs. Even though he is 31 yrs old and a Dr. I have seen him hang with 20 yr old UTR 11.5s, for a while. Amazing young man.
 

esgee48

Legend
Ha! At our age, anyone younger than 40 is a baby.

Try Ashaway Crossfire ZX 17 String in the Strings section of TW. Be careful with the ZX as it can be tempermental. As for the differential, try 10-15#, but YMMV.
 

emhtennis

Semi-Pro
Had my first full outing with the Crossfire ZX 17 today. Did my best to do the pre-stretch protocols. Was able to pull about 20in of slack from the Zyex and 3in from the Kevlar. Strung with a 60/40lbs differential in both of my Angell TC97 18x20s. Final racket weight was 336g and apx 5pt Headlight. Previously I had been playing with MSV Focus Hex 1.15mm at 46lbs (which had probably loosened to low 40s).

Played 2 hours of doubles and another hour of singles today. My game is built around a NTRP 5.5 serve and a 4.5 game (yes that is both a joke and true). This was a really interesting experience. I was worried about losing too much spin coming from low tension shaped poly, but I found above average spin - say 3.75 out of 5, where my poly setup (when fresh) would be 4.5 out of 5. But the tension in the mains definitely reigned in the power of the stick. Before restringing my poly had fallen off so quickly that I became afraid to hit out. Now I find myself in the opposite situation. I have to remind myself that I can take big cuts at the ball again. I felt like my first serve lost some mph, but my second serves had even more movement so I am ok with the trade-off for now. Slices and volleys felt great. I cracked a lot of good precise returns during doubles, so overall I am happy with the change.

Questions for those with lots of experience with this string setup:
1. Will this setup "soften up" a little bit? I know the prestretch is supposed to limit this, but just trying to get an idea of what to expect over the next few weeks.
2. I feel like my ideal preference would be a 5lbs looser string bed. Does that mean next time I should string at 55/35? if 60/40 feels a little too firm what do I do?
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Had my first full outing with the Crossfire ZX 17 today. Did my best to do the pre-stretch protocols. Was able to pull about 20in of slack from the Zyex and 3in from the Kevlar. Strung with a 60/40lbs differential in both of my Angell TC97 18x20s. Final racket weight was 336g and apx 5pt Headlight. Previously I had been playing with MSV Focus Hex 1.15mm at 46lbs (which had probably loosened to low 40s).

Played 2 hours of doubles and another hour of singles today. My game is built around a NTRP 5.5 serve and a 4.5 game (yes that is both a joke and true). This was a really interesting experience. I was worried about losing too much spin coming from low tension shaped poly, but I found above average spin - say 3.75 out of 5, where my poly setup (when fresh) would be 4.5 out of 5. But the tension in the mains definitely reigned in the power of the stick. Before restringing my poly had fallen off so quickly that I became afraid to hit out. Now I find myself in the opposite situation. I have to remind myself that I can take big cuts at the ball again. I felt like my first serve lost some mph, but my second serves had even more movement so I am ok with the trade-off for now. Slices and volleys felt great. I cracked a lot of good precise returns during doubles, so overall I am happy with the change.

Questions for those with lots of experience with this string setup:
1. Will this setup "soften up" a little bit? I know the prestretch is supposed to limit this, but just trying to get an idea of what to expect over the next few weeks.
2. I feel like my ideal preference would be a 5lbs looser string bed. Does that mean next time I should string at 55/35? if 60/40 feels a little too firm what do I do?
Yes it will still soften. The weight of the stringbed is still probably lighter than 1.15 full poly, so consider adding a gram or two at 3 and 9 to replace lost sw.
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
Had my first full outing with the Crossfire ZX 17 today. Did my best to do the pre-stretch protocols. Was able to pull about 20in of slack from the Zyex and 3in from the Kevlar. Strung with a 60/40lbs differential in both of my Angell TC97 18x20s. Final racket weight was 336g and apx 5pt Headlight. Previously I had been playing with MSV Focus Hex 1.15mm at 46lbs (which had probably loosened to low 40s).

Played 2 hours of doubles and another hour of singles today. My game is built around a NTRP 5.5 serve and a 4.5 game (yes that is both a joke and true). This was a really interesting experience. I was worried about losing too much spin coming from low tension shaped poly, but I found above average spin - say 3.75 out of 5, where my poly setup (when fresh) would be 4.5 out of 5. But the tension in the mains definitely reigned in the power of the stick. Before restringing my poly had fallen off so quickly that I became afraid to hit out. Now I find myself in the opposite situation. I have to remind myself that I can take big cuts at the ball again. I felt like my first serve lost some mph, but my second serves had even more movement so I am ok with the trade-off for now. Slices and volleys felt great. I cracked a lot of good precise returns during doubles, so overall I am happy with the change.

Questions for those with lots of experience with this string setup:
1. Will this setup "soften up" a little bit? I know the prestretch is supposed to limit this, but just trying to get an idea of what to expect over the next few weeks.
2. I feel like my ideal preference would be a 5lbs looser string bed. Does that mean next time I should string at 55/35? if 60/40 feels a little too firm what do I do?
It should soften for sure. See how it goes on the next outing. If you need it lower try just going down in the crosses 5 lbs. And agree with trav about the weight and adjusting a bit for it.
 

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
Had my first full outing with the Crossfire ZX 17 today. Did my best to do the pre-stretch protocols. Was able to pull about 20in of slack from the Zyex and 3in from the Kevlar. Strung with a 60/40lbs differential in both of my Angell TC97 18x20s. Final racket weight was 336g and apx 5pt Headlight. Previously I had been playing with MSV Focus Hex 1.15mm at 46lbs (which had probably loosened to low 40s).

Played 2 hours of doubles and another hour of singles today. My game is built around a NTRP 5.5 serve and a 4.5 game (yes that is both a joke and true). This was a really interesting experience. I was worried about losing too much spin coming from low tension shaped poly, but I found above average spin - say 3.75 out of 5, where my poly setup (when fresh) would be 4.5 out of 5. But the tension in the mains definitely reigned in the power of the stick. Before restringing my poly had fallen off so quickly that I became afraid to hit out. Now I find myself in the opposite situation. I have to remind myself that I can take big cuts at the ball again. I felt like my first serve lost some mph, but my second serves had even more movement so I am ok with the trade-off for now. Slices and volleys felt great. I cracked a lot of good precise returns during doubles, so overall I am happy with the change.

Questions for those with lots of experience with this string setup:
1. Will this setup "soften up" a little bit? I know the prestretch is supposed to limit this, but just trying to get an idea of what to expect over the next few weeks.
2. I feel like my ideal preference would be a 5lbs looser string bed. Does that mean next time I should string at 55/35? if 60/40 feels a little too firm what do I do?
Good hitting out there. Those serves were cooking. Lots of action on the 2nd for sure.
 

emhtennis

Semi-Pro
Update from Day 2. Yes both rackets seem like they've loosened up just a bit and they feel much better! Pace on the first serve also seems to have returned. This is a longer break in period, which is fine - just something I need to remember in the future. One of the reasons I like MSV a lot is because it felt great straight off the stringing machine. I also like Volkl Cyclone, but again, for me it has a break in period of about 90 minutes where it feels extra stiff before settling in. Kevlar/Zyex appears to be about 2.5 to 3 hours before arriving at where it feels best.

Will post again next week after the strings have another 6 to 8 hours on them.
 

weelie

Semi-Pro
Update from Day 2. Yes both rackets seem like they've loosened up just a bit and they feel much better! Pace on the first serve also seems to have returned. This is a longer break in period, which is fine - just something I need to remember in the future. One of the reasons I like MSV a lot is because it felt great straight off the stringing machine. I also like Volkl Cyclone, but again, for me it has a break in period of about 90 minutes where it feels extra stiff before settling in. Kevlar/Zyex appears to be about 2.5 to 3 hours before arriving at where it feels best.

Will post again next week after the strings have another 6 to 8 hours on them.
On my previous main racket, I felt first session it feels a bit stiff (each time) but then settles to where I want it and holds well enough until it breaks (like 2-3 months later, playing 5-7h/week). I think my stringer gives the Zyex as much stretch as he can get, but I don't really understand these things. All I know is that that racket played well with Hex Focus at 26kg, and played well with Crossfire ZX at 29kg/20kg. But as the racket is a bit limited, I moved back to my old Dunlop M3.0. Actually I brought it out of storage a year ago, and had it strung at 26kg/17kg, then I tried it, felt boardy and useless (not enough power). Then 6 months later, I bought a Clash 100T and hated it, and then for the fun of it tried the M3.0 again... added a bit of lead at 3/9 and 12... and loved it! Now, sadly, 2 weeks ago, the strings on it broke. I wonder if I ought to have it strung like it was (26kg/17kg) or looser... as it had sat half a year after stringing... :D Anyway, my string said in teh spring, he'll be back to tennis only in the fall. In the meantime, I bought a 2nd hand 2015 Prince 100P, which I had strung with basic Kirschbaum, at 24kg/23kg, works well enough, needs still some tuning.
 

Tennissee

Rookie
I use PK5g, or some of its different versions, with Ash Kev 18g in mains at 42 lbs and any cheap nylon 16g in crosses at 45 lbs. Drop weight, so probably losing a few pounds there from get go. Then I leave the newly strung racquet in my hot car for a week or two for curing/proofing. After that, it plays like a dream with a posh feel. Your mileage will absolutely be different.
 

2ndServe

Hall of Fame
All the gauges of Ash Kev lose a bunch of tension, which is actually caused by the braided fibers relaxing and straightening out, not any degradation of the kevlar.

I have tried every conceivable way to stretch the Ash Kev fibers out before install and havent found any meaningly successful method.
has anyone found a way. The only way I’ve found by accident is when my order got delayed. I had rackets that were sw104 18 mains that I hit for 2 weeks, cut those mains out and it was enough string to string a 90sq 16x19 that played nice and soft with minimal tension loss
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
has anyone found a way. The only way I’ve found by accident is when my order got delayed. I had rackets that were sw104 18 mains that I hit for 2 weeks, cut those mains out and it was enough string to string a 90sq 16x19 that played nice and soft with minimal tension loss
I’ve had decent success with pounding on the mains after tensioning, but before tying off one end. After pounding, I walk off the slack across the stringbed from the tied end and then retention with the drop weight.

Then I repeat the pound-walk-retension cycle a few times until the drop weight no longer falls any further.
 

2nd Serve Ace

Hall of Fame
has anyone found a way. The only way I’ve found by accident is when my order got delayed. I had rackets that were sw104 18 mains that I hit for 2 weeks, cut those mains out and it was enough string to string a 90sq 16x19 that played nice and soft with minimal tension loss
Yeah the Ash Kev is tricky because it resists a vertical pull so well but a lateral action loosens the braid up tremendously.

I've got used kev mains off a blade 104 as well that I plan to reuse on a smaller size frame when team dubs starts up again. (Good dubs serving is more about spin than pace)
 

tegg96

Semi-Pro
@2ndServe ,

I use a winch with one end anchored to my deck step, the other tied off at the winch strap. Or when I am lazy I pull tension 3-5 times on each main with my NEOS 1000.
I prestretch Kevlar 16 by tieing off one end of a 6.2M length to a solid fixed post. Then use my constant pull stringing machine that I've put on the ground, as a winch, pulling the entire length at max pulling tension of 90lbs. I repeat the pull multiple times and bounce on the string till all slack is out.. I basically have to stand on the machine to prevent it sliding away.
Then I will do the same with the Zyex, but I only prestretch that at the tension I'm going to eventually put in racquet. So 53lbs. I don't like to over stretch the zyex as I feel it loses its elastic comfort propertys.

So then I install into say a Pure Aero, Kevlar mains at 56lbs crossed with Zyex at 53lbs.
The current 2019 Pure Aero is simply a string eating machine. Even the Kevlar takes a battering in this racquet.
 
Its been a while since posted here. I have Kev/ZX strung at 60/45 in one of my Angell TC95s but didnt play with it much since every time i played with it i felt like loosing power on serve and ground strokes as well. Its been few months, so not sure of the current tension but i wanted to give one last try before cutting it out and added 1g of lead at 12, what a difference. Great spin, decent power, excellent control in a comfortable package. Launch angle was higher but its expected. I was about to give up and 1g of lead made a big difference. I will keep atleast one racquet strung with kev/zx probably around 55/45 next time and see how that feels.
 

Brian H

New User
I normally play Cyclone at 32lbs. What do you guys suggest then for Kev/ZX? Poly at very low tensions last me 25-30hrs, but I want something even more durable and more comfortable.
 

graycrait

Hall of Fame
@Brian H , a friend of mine who I used to string for but has since moved away was a junior national champ. We met several years ago when she was in college. She would break 16L Tour Bite in about in 1.5 hrs. AshKev/ZX would last her a week and a half. Using both Racquet Tune and Tennis Tension apps I found that even with some severe prestretching of the AshKev and moderate prestretching of the ZX that once settled the stringbed came in at about 12-14lbs lower than when strung.
 
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AceyMan

Rookie
I normally play Cyclone at 32lbs. What do you guys suggest then for Kev/ZX? Poly at very low tensions last me 25-30hrs, but I want something even more durable and more comfortable.
what size frame?

I installed the Ashaway 17g Kevlar/Syngut in my Wilson Ultra Tour at 18/20 kg and it's really nice after bedding in couple of hours. I don't prestretch.

I'd do the Kevlar /ZX probably a kg lower, so 17/19 (which is close to 37½/42 in Yankee units).

That's for my kind of stringbed. If you like poly at 32, you could probably do yours a few pounds lower with the Zyex. That low I'd probably do same on the mains. like 28/28 lbs.

Tweak up or down depending on hoop size and string pattern.

/Acey
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
what size frame?

I installed the Ashaway 17g Kevlar/Syngut in my Wilson Ultra Tour at 18/20 kg and it's really nice after bedding in couple of hours. I don't prestretch.

I'd do the Kevlar /ZX probably a kg lower, so 17/19 (which is close to 37½/42 in Yankee units).

Tweak up or down depending on hoop size and string pattern.

/Acey
I like Kevlar/zx in dense patterns - UT would be perfect for it.
 

emhtennis

Semi-Pro
A 60/40 split really aggravated my wrist and forearm tendinitis.

Does the combo still retain most of the positive characteristics if strung at lower tensions? Like 50/45 or lower?

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
 

emhtennis

Semi-Pro
I didn't at the time. My frames were already pushing 340g so didn't want to make them any heavier, and/or head heavier.

If i tried it again I could put lead in as suggested in addition to the lower tension

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
I didn't at the time. My frames were already pushing 340g so didn't want to make them any heavier, and/or head heavier.

If i tried it again I could put lead in as suggested in addition to the lower tension

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
I think one of the reasons why kevlar sometimes gets a bad rap is that people don’t realize that the string is much lighter compared to their usual string. The kevlar is braided multi fiber, with lots of air in between the fibers, so it only weighs about 60% of the weight of a poly string of same gauge.

If your stringbed is 3g lighter than you are used to, then the swingweight will be 5-6 units lower than you are used to (or even more if you usually use full poly), and your arm and joints will feel a harsher contact than usual. If you weigh your racquet and measure the swingweight before you cut out your usual string, then you can replace the lost swingweight when you try the kevlar/zx. This will give you an apples-to-apples comparison that is not confounded by the large difference in racquet swingweight and plow through.
 

USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
A 60/40 split really aggravated my wrist and forearm tendinitis.

Does the combo still retain most of the positive characteristics if strung at lower tensions? Like 50/45 or lower?

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

If you have issues with wrist and forearm tendinitis I would get as far away from Kevlar as I could. What would make you want to further investigate Kevlar?
 

AceyMan

Rookie
If you have issues with wrist and forearm tendinitis I would get as far away from Kevlar as I could. What would make you want to further investigate Kevlar?
Kevlar gets a bad rap for this. Sure, when people do stringbeds at 70/65 lbs and crazy stuff like that it wouldn't matter if it was dental floss.

High-end speaker cones are woven Kevlar — it wouldn't work in that application if it vibrated in crazy ways. At the right DT, I find a hybrid Kevlar bed no worse than average on the arm harshness scale. And if I mishit the ball, I expect to be scolded, but maybe that's just me.

/Acey
 

USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
Kevlar gets a bad rap for this. Sure, when people do stringbeds at 70/65 lbs and crazy stuff like that it wouldn't matter if it was dental floss.

High-end speaker cones are woven Kevlar — it wouldn't work in that application if it vibrated in crazy ways. At the right DT, I find a hybrid Kevlar bed no worse than average on the arm harshness scale. And if I mishit the ball, I expect to be scolded, but maybe that's just me.

/Acey
The string stiffness rating of Kevlar is anywhere between 750-990 while the stiffness of a poly like Alu Power is 241 by RSI. This sort of stiffness matters in terms of the wear and tear on your arm. Much more so than the difference in the weight of the string. Stiffness of the string, stiffness of the frame, and tension are all important.
 
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USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
I think one of the reasons why kevlar sometimes gets a bad rap is that people don’t realize that the string is much lighter compared to their usual string. The kevlar is braided multi fiber, with lots of air in between the fibers, so it only weighs about 60% of the weight of a poly string of same gauge.

If your stringbed is 3g lighter than you are used to, then the swingweight will be 5-6 units lower than you are used to (or even more if you usually use full poly), and your arm and joints will feel a harsher contact than usual. If you weigh your racquet and measure the swingweight before you cut out your usual string, then you can replace the lost swingweight when you try the kevlar/zx. This will give you an apples-to-apples comparison that is not confounded by the large difference in racquet swingweight and plow through.
Stiffness of string is more significant than the difference in weight.
 

USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
Disagree.
3g of difference in weight as opposed to the stiffness being 750-990 compared to most polys being around 200-250? The difference in weight is not what is making the string stiff and tough on the arm.
If your only remedy for your racquet is to add weight, the majority of players are not interested in adding or changing the weight of their frame just like the player above who had arm issues with the Kevlar setup. By the way stringing just as you guys have recommended to a number of people with a 20lb differential around 60/40. Large percentage of players don’t do well with adding weight to the head of the frame. Causes elbow/wrist problems from hitting the ball late and creates problems with timing.
The problem is Kevlar.
 
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travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
3g of difference in weight as opposed to the stiffness being 750-900 compared to most polys being around 200-250? The difference in weight is not what is making the string stiff and tough on the arm.
The formula for impact shock can be used to prove that your statement is false.
 

USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
The formula for impact shock can be used to prove that your statement is false.
Do you realize that all of these string bed stiffness issues mentioned here can be avoided by not using Kevlar?
Played with Kevlar/Zx in my RF97 in the 40’s and it was the stiffest string bed I have hit with out of that frame in the last 6 years of using it. Can use anything else in the 40’s in the RF97 and it is not only easy on the arm but basically too soft of a string bed for my game.
 
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USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
My Dad was a surgeon and some of the best medical advise he ever gave me was “when some thing hurts, don’t do that”. Cheers
 
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Shroud

G.O.A.T.
3g of difference in weight as opposed to the stiffness being 750-990 compared to most polys being around 200-250? The difference in weight is not what is making the string stiff and tough on the arm.
If your only remedy for your racquet is to add weight, the majority of players are not interested in adding or changing the weight of their frame just like the player above who had arm issues with the Kevlar setup. By the way stringing just as you guys have recommended to a number of people with a 20lb differential around 60/40. Large percentage of players don’t do well with adding weight to the head of the frame. Causes elbow/wrist problems from hitting the ball late and creates problems with timing.
The problem is Kevlar.
Its really sad that you seem unable to follow simple statements. Try to catch up. No one is talking about changing the weight of their frame....as usual its JUST THE OPPOSITE.

The problem is your reading comprehension.....
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
Do you realize that all of these string bed stiffness issues mentioned here can be avoided by not using Kevlar?
Played with Kevlar/Zx in my RF97 in the 40’s and it was the stiffest string bed I have hit with out of that frame in the last 6 years of using it. Can use anything else in the 40’s in the RF97 and it is not only easy on the arm but basically too soft of a string bed for my game.
Have you measured the stringbed stiffness on a KEV/ZX strung at 60/40? What was it?? Or are you just thinking since kevlar has a stiffness of 800+ it must lead to a stiff stringbed?
 

USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
Its really sad that you seem unable to follow simple statements. Try to catch up. No one is talking about changing the weight of their frame....as usual its JUST THE OPPOSITE.

The problem is your reading comprehension.....
Adding weight to the frame to compensate for the 3g difference in strings is adding 3g of weight to the frame you dumbass. Adding the weight and having to take it back off to try another string is a pain, much like yourself. Then add it back for Kevlar. Go back in your hole Shroud.
 
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Shroud

G.O.A.T.
Adding weight to the frame to compensate for the 3g difference in strings is adding 3g of weight to the frame you dumbass and 3 grams of weight isnt going to take the string stiffness away from Kevlar. Go back in your hole.
Try to catch up. If you lose 3g and add back 3g you haven't changed the weight of the frame.

Please answer the stringbed stiffness above.

And read up on swingweight and how it affects comfort. And as a hot shot coach I would have thought you would be above name calling when confronted with things you appear to not understand. Isn't there some professional standard you have to achieve.

@Ash_Smith is the best coach on here and he would never talk like that. Maybe he can give you lessons on professional behaviour....
 

USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
Try to catch up. If you lose 3g and add back 3g you haven't changed the weight of the frame.

Please answer the stringbed stiffness above.

And read up on swingweight and how it affects comfort. And as a hot shot coach I would have thought you would be above name calling when confronted with things you appear to not understand. Isn't there some professional standard you have to achieve.

@Ash_Smith is the best coach on here and he would never talk like that. Maybe he can give you lessons on professional behaviour....
You still don’t get it. If a frame is 3 grams off due to the lightness of the string, according to you guys that is why it is tough on the arm. You guys are saying you have to add the weight to compensate for the difference in weight of the string which is ridiculous and a pain if you use other strings. Have to take the weight on and off. Also many will get hurt playing with these strings. You think tendinitis in the arm and wrist are no big deal? or it just goes away? People mess themselves up for months with this type of string set up. It also can become chronic for players once it starts. The stiffness of the string is why this guys arm was hurting at 60/40 with Kev/Zx.
 
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Shroud

G.O.A.T.
You still don’t get it. You still have to add the weight to compensate for the difference in weight of the string which is ridiculous and the stiffness of the string is why this guys arm was hurting at 60/40 with Kev/Zx.
you wrote: the majority of players are not interested in adding or changing the weight of their frame

I think that is probably true which is all the more reason to add the weight to bring it back to the same spec.

Retaining the balance and weight of a frame based on the difference in string weights is just good practice. Its not my fault that your average club stringer doesn't understand that. It happens in all kind of string changes.

Did you miss the part where the guy in question didn't add the lead:

I didn't at the time. My frames were already pushing 340g so didn't want to make them any heavier, and/or head heavier.

If i tried it again I could put lead in as suggested in addition to the lower tension
Seems like he missed the fact too that the kev weighs less and adding weight just brings it back to the original weight.

So given the data you can't conclude that the arm pain was due stiffness and not the lack of sw. Especially since you have yet to answer the question about the DT of a stringbed strung at 60/40 with kev/zx. What is it?

I had wrist issues once and NEVER have wrist issues. Never in 30 years. Till I strung a racquet with my normal setup but kept it stock. Wrist was hurting. Added the normal lead and wrist has been awesome since. IME enough lead will make up for any stringbed. Kevlar is light enough to mess things up if you don't compensate. And if you just switched to a non kevlar bed but a different gauge it wouldn't surprise me if that would also hurt. Swingweight and balance can make a difference in comfort for some players.

And you clearly missed the part where he wrote "aggrevated". Dude already had issues. you don't know that any stringbed wouldnt' aggravate things?
 

USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
No one missed that you add the 3g of weight to compensate for the lighter Kevlar string bringing it to the same weight. The point that you miss is that the stiffness of the string is the problem. String stiffness matters.
 
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Shroud

G.O.A.T.
No one missed that you add the 3g of weight to compensate for the lighter string bringing it to the same weight. The point that you miss is that the stiffness of the string is the problem. String stiffness matters.
Actually you missed it when you wrote: the majority of players are not interested in adding or changing the weight of their frame.

If you understood what you know now you never would have written that because there is no changing the weight of the frame if you bring it to the same weight.

And the string stiffness is one factor. What you fail to understand is that its the STRINGBED stiffness that is key. A kev/zx stiffness is not 800+.

Please read the first few posts in this thread where it is explained the affect the tension differential has and the difference in tension between the mains and cross string (kev's stiffness vs. Zx stiffness) has.

And you haven't replied about what a 60/40 kev/zx stringbed stiffness measures. Do you know?
 

USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
Actually you missed it when you wrote: the majority of players are not interested in adding or changing the weight of their frame.

If you understood what you know now you never would have written that because there is no changing the weight of the frame if you bring it to the same weight.

And the string stiffness is one factor. What you fail to understand is that its the STRINGBED stiffness that is key. A kev/zx stiffness is not 800+.

Please read the first few posts in this thread where it is explained the affect the tension differential has and the difference in tension between the mains and cross string (kev's stiffness vs. Zx stiffness) has.

And you haven't replied about what a 60/40 kev/zx stringbed stiffness measures. Do you know?
People do not want to change the weight of their unstrung frames and are unaffected by the difference in the weight of the strings unless they are really high level players and can tell the difference. Most people try any number of strings and the 3g only suits your Kevlar science project. Have played with Kevlar/Zx and know how stiff it is in a frame. You can try to sell how non-stiff these Kevlar string beds are to someone who doesn’t know better.

Trained today with another 5.0 player and I was using RF97’s with Gut/poly. So humid and going through grips I ran out of frames and switched to a freshly strung PS97 with Alu Power/ Prince Syn Gut at 55/55. After 3 balls it didn’t matter which frame I was using. It was all the same and neither was more taxing on the arm. Thats a lot more weight difference than just 3g and a complete difference in string set up.
The problem is with the Kevlar and the stiffness with respect to the player above.
 
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Shroud

G.O.A.T.
You are a complete idiot. people do not want to change the weight of their unstrung frame. Most people try any number of strings and the 3g on suits ths Kevlar science project.
Again with the name calling. Sad man sad. Again you fail to realize that if kev/zx weighs 3g less than the previous stringbed than THAT IS A CHANGE.

For example:

330g strung with poly is 327g strung with kev/zx so you need to add 3g to make back to 330g.

Its not my fault that most people and stringers alike don't understand. And you don't understand if you are talking about "unstrung frame". that is just silly. No one hits with an unstrung frame!

And if you want to talk idiocy you are making claims about string stiffness, failing to understand the ESP stringbed and not even knowing the DT of the final product. Making claims with no evidence is idiotic IMHO.

Again do you know the stringbed stiffness of Kev/zx when strung at 60/40lbs?? Did you read the first few posts in this thread where the stiffness of the stringbed is explained?
 
Actually you missed it when you wrote: the majority of players are not interested in adding or changing the weight of their frame.

If you understood what you know now you never would have written that because there is no changing the weight of the frame if you bring it to the same weight.

And the string stiffness is one factor. What you fail to understand is that its the STRINGBED stiffness that is key. A kev/zx stiffness is not 800+.

Please read the first few posts in this thread where it is explained the affect the tension differential has and the difference in tension between the mains and cross string (kev's stiffness vs. Zx stiffness) has.

And you haven't replied about what a 60/40 kev/zx stringbed stiffness measures. Do you know?
I am not an expert but can only speak from my experience. I didn't like the racquet with Kev/ZX @60/45 for a while until i added just 1g of weight at 12. Its like a magic after adding the weight. Trust me, comfort got better along with power level and stability. In my experience stability of the racquet also gives comfort (RF97 is an example, its comfortable and no vibrations though it 70 RA since its a very stable racquet). I was always told to play with the highest swing weight that i can handle. To summarize i do feel adding weight to the hoop to compensate the loss of weight may increase the comfort levels of the stick.
 

USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
Difference in string bed weights is not an issue for anyone I know or myself included. Players start with stock specs or modified specs and then use the string that suits their game the best. I can use full bed poly, poly/syn gut and Gut/poly and the weight makes no difference. Adding weight according to this thread seems to be the difference between injury or non-injury with Kevlar. That’s a problem.
 
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USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
I am not an expert but can only speak from my experience. I didn't like the racquet with Kev/ZX @60/45 for a while until i added just 1g of weight at 12. Its like a magic after adding the weight. Trust me, comfort got better along with power level and stability. In my experience stability of the racquet also gives comfort (RF97 is an example, its comfortable and no vibrations though it 70 RA since its a very stable racquet). I was always told to play with the highest swing weight that i can handle. To summarize i do feel adding weight to the hoop to compensate the loss of weight may increase the comfort levels of the stick.
Sounds like it is a must for Kevlar set ups or you risk injury.
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
I am not an expert but can only speak from my experience. I didn't like the racquet with Kev/ZX @60/45 for a while until i added just 1g of weight at 12. Its like a magic after adding the weight. Trust me, comfort got better along with power level and stability. In my experience stability of the racquet also gives comfort (RF97 is an example, its comfortable and no vibrations though it 70 RA since its a very stable racquet). I was always told to play with the highest swing weight that i can handle. To summarize i do feel adding weight to the hoop to compensate the loss of weight may increase the comfort levels of the stick.
Cool man. I don't doubt it! Most tennis players get grooved on a certain balance and swingweight. Messing that up will affect things. IMHO its one of the reasons for the threads where people change gauges and its magic. They NEVER compensate for the new weight and their stringers either don't know or don't care. So some players suddenly like the 17g vs 16g or go from 17 to 16 and its heaven. IMHO that is mostly just changes in sw like happened to you.

I think you are more of an expert than others on this board that can't seem to understand how 2-4g less in the hoop can affect playability. Said another way, some people can't play right with 2-4g added at 3&9 because it changes the balance and sw. That seems to be understood. But if a lighter string removes 2-4g that seems to be a bridge too far.

IME the RF97a is awesome with kev/zx. think I was at 65/45 IIRC. It was a beast after I weighted it up. Keep on doing what works for you and thanks for chiming in. Always good to have posters with some actual experience.
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
Sounds like it is a must for Kevlar set ups or you risk injury.
If you lower the sw and change the balance on any racquet with a rec player you can risk injury. Lots of stories here about changing strings and messing up elbows. Most don't include kevlar but are changes between polys and multis and syngut.

No idea on the question I posed?
 

USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
If you lower the sw and change the balance on any racquet with a rec player you can risk injury. Lots of stories here about changing strings and messing up elbows. Most don't include kevlar but are changes between polys and multis and syngut.

No idea on the question I posed?
You would be wrong about taking a couple of points of HL away causing injury. Head heavy frames are tough on the elbows of rec players.
Shroud, you have no experience in dealing with a large number of players and handling their equipment. Higher tensions and stiffer strings is where most problems occur.
I have seen video of you and Travlerajm and y’all are a couple of 3.5 players that none of these major alterations you talk about with frames and strings would may a hill of beans in how you play.
It doesn’t make that much difference for me at 5.0 whether it is full poly, Gut/poly, poly/gut, poly/multi or poly/syn gut. The level of play is the same. Have seen Dimitrov play with 18x20, 16x19, 18x17..full poly, gut/poly..93”, 95”, 97”..it all looks the same. Different weight and balance now and an overall lighter frame to make it easier on his shoulder.
Since you like to put statements in other posts insinuating that others are experienced and I am not... Have you ever played D1 Collegiate tennis with Kevlar Hybrids and strung for other players on the team that you trained with 3-4hrs a day? Stop thinking you are so experienced.
You would be better off forgetting everything that you think you know and getting a coach and taking their recommendations.
 
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