In praise of Kevlar/ZX hybrid!!!

[Fed Kennedy]

For you kev zx gurus, what kind of tension would you string up a POG OS at?

 

[skydog]

For you kev zx gurus, what kind of tension would you string up a POG OS at?

Depends on how willing you are to go in a large differential. I have found that 62 lb mains (Kev) and 50 lbs (ZX) using the 16 gauge of each string works well in a Head MG Radical OS (modified to 369 grams, 11 points HL) with an 18 x 19 pattern.The POG OS is a bit stiffer and runs a 16 x 19 pattern so that may have to be tweaked a bit. I have found that the more open the pattern, the tighter I have to go on the mains to maintain snap back. I usually stick to flexier racquets, but in a few play tests in stiffer racquets I lowered the tension in the mains into the mid to high 50’s. With a new racquet, I usually start off with 57 x 50 lbs and adjust from there. Tweak the mains for control/spin and the crosses for power.

The most important aspect is how you are going to string it. If you are not willing to go through one of the pre-stretch processes, you will have to go a bit tighter, especially on the ZX, as it will loosen up a bit after a couple of hours of hitting and gain a bit of power. The pre-stretch process can be a bit time consuming, but it pays off in a long lasting and more consistent string bed. The ZX stretches quite a bit, I only need 17 ft of ZX to string a 19 cross OS racquet and that includes enough string to get to the tension head on both ends (about 2 ft total). A little bit of patience and time in the stringing process goes a long way in making this hybrid special.

 

[Trip]

So a bit of an update here on my journey, with 3 different string jobs so far:

#1 -- Kev 16 / ZX 16 @ 70/60 lbs in a TT100 310 (2019), with double-pulls on the kevlar, 20-second slow pulls on the Zyex, no pre-stretching of either string. 65.3 pounds initial string bed tension (per Tennis Tension app). There was a definite magic period from 0-3 hours, where the string bed just played absolutely amazing in every way. During that time, tension fell into the mid/upper 50's. Around 5 hours tension drop slowed, settling into the low-mid 50's, then slowly dropped fractions of a pound per play session from there forward, and played very solidly for another 30-ish hours, until tension ended up in the low 40's. At that point, the central kevlar mains were only about 50% sawn through and the ZX had loosened considerably. I chose to cut it out at probably 35-40 hours, as it was getting overly launchy and borderline unplayable against 4.0+ partners. Still, overall, I was able to get a good solid 25-30 hours out of it where I could play at almost any level and absorb pace very confidently, and that's saying something in a pretty open 100" 16x18 pattern.

#2 -- Kev 17 / ZX 16 @ 60/56 lbs in a G360+ Prestige Tour (99", 18x19), with 1.5" manual pre-stretch on kevlar and 16" on the ZX (so a mid-range pre-stretch). It played pretty well with less playability change after the initial few hits, although I ended up selling this frame to a friend with the string job in it, after he tried it and absolutely fell for the combo (he liked the frame when he tried it with full poly in it, but loved it with this hybrid).

#3 -- Kev 16 / ZX 16 @ 65/57 lbs in a TT100 310 (2019), with prestretch of 2" on the kevlar and 20" on the Zyex. I've only played it a few hours, but immediately I could notice that something was missing from that first initial session I had with job #1, where I didn't prestretch. It felt as though a good amount of dwell and controlled resilience was absent from the string bed. Perhaps this effect is related to why Steve Crandall of Ashaway actually doesn't recommend pre-stretching (besides the fact that he knows the string is fragile enough as it is) and said something to effect of "you'll take the life out of the string" by doing so. I also notice that while I didn't get quite as much of an initial tension drop from first session to second, it was still there, around 6-7% (compared to 8-9% when I didn't prestretch). At this point in the hot summer, the string bed already seems too launchy at only 5 or so hours played, but I really don't want to cut it out so soon, so I'll give it a few more play tests. An interesting experience nonetheless.

Hope some of that helps readers of this thread curious about prestretching versus not. As of now, I'm leaning towards just going back to a combo of repeated pulls for the kevlar and long pulls for the ZX and calling it a day, if it means I get that magical initial playability and "plenty good enough" for the next couple dozen hours.

 

[travlerajm]

So a bit of an update here on my journey, with 3 different string jobs so far:

#1 -- Kev 16 / ZX 16 @ 70/60 lbs in a TT100 310 (2019), with double-pulls on the kevlar, 20-second slow pulls on the Zyex, no pre-stretching of either string. 65.3 pounds initial string bed tension (per Tennis Tension app). There was a definite magic period from 0-3 hours, where the string bed just played absolutely amazing in every way. During that time, tension fell into the mid/upper 50's. Around 5 hours tension drop slowed, settling into the low-mid 50's, then slowly dropped fractions of a pound per play session from there forward, and played very solidly for another 30-ish hours, until tension ended up in the low 40's. At that point, the central kevlar mains were only about 50% sawn through and the ZX had loosened considerably. I chose to cut it out at probably 35-40 hours, as it was getting overly launchy and borderline unplayable against 4.0+ partners. Still, overall, I was able to get a good solid 25-30 hours out of it where I could play at almost any level and absorb pace very confidently, and that's saying something in a pretty open 100" 16x18 pattern.

#2 -- Kev 17 / ZX 16 @ 60/56 lbs in a G360+ Prestige Tour (99", 18x19), with 1.5" manual pre-stretch on kevlar and 16" on the ZX (so a mid-range pre-stretch). It played pretty well with less playability change after the initial few hits, although I ended up selling this frame to a friend with the string job in it, after he tried it and absolutely fell for the combo (he liked the frame when he tried it with full poly in it, but loved it with this hybrid).

#3 -- Kev 16 / ZX 16 @ 65/60 lbs in a TT100 310 (2019), with prestretch of 2" on the kevlar and 20" on the Zyex. I've only played it a few hours, but immediately I could notice that something was missing from that first initial session I had with job #1, where I didn't prestretch. It felt as though a good amount of dwell and controlled resilience was absent from the string bed. Perhaps this effect is related to why Steve Crandall of Ashaway actually doesn't recommend pre-stretching (besides the fact that he knows the string is fragile enough as it is) and said something to effect of "you'll take the life out of the string" by doing so. I also notice that while I didn't get quite as much of an initial tension drop from first session to second, it was still there, around 6-7% (compared to 8-9% when I didn't prestretch). At this point in the hot summer, the string bed already seems too launchy at only 5 or so hours played, but I really don't want to cut it out so soon, so I'll give it a few more play tests. An interesting experience nonetheless.

Hope some of that helps readers of this thread curious about prestretching versus not. As of now, I'm leaning towards just going back to a combo of repeated pulls for the kevlar and long pulls for the ZX and calling it a day, if it means I get that magical initial playability and "plenty good enough" for the next couple dozen hours.

The first 3h of magic can be extended by prestretching fully and then upping the kevlar tension and dropping the zx tension. The only reason I stopped doing this was because the hoop was changing shape more over time, requiring me to re-measure and re-adjust my weighting often.

 

[graycrait]

I strung up a PD 62/58 Ash Kev/ZX with no prestretch and lent it to a friend of mine, 60 yr old former small school D1 player. I had the PD weighted and balanced just like my APDs. Tuesday we had a hit with him using that PD. Afterward I encouraged him to hang on to the PD for awhile. Last nite he played on court #1 in the local ladder doubles league. This is what he sent me after his matches were over:

Thanks for letting me use your racket! I won the most games on court #1! Racket and strings were great!

 

[graycrait]

@Fed Kennedy , When I was swinging POG OSs with Ash Kev x ZX I was still prestretching and on that size head with that pattern I generally strung at 65/59.

I strung up an APD the other day after I prestretched both half sets. I used a winch to prestretch the Ash kev till it broke and did a manual prestretch of the ZX. I strung the APD at the same tension as I normally string non-prestretched Ash Kev x ZX in the APDs 62/58lbs. I took it to the court with another APD that had the same string but no prestretch. There was a slight difference in tension but I could use the rackets interchangeably.

 

[Astonish]

Got to hit with the Kev/4G @ 60lbs finally, to compare with the Kev/ZXP @ 60lbs. Unfortunately I had to restring all of my frames, so I wasn’t able to do an A/B comparison at the exact same time… but it had only been about 24 hours, so comparing the two setups is very fresh in my mind. The specs of the frames were unchanged (PT57A - 95” head with 18x20 string pattern - SW of either 360/380/400 depending on which spec I’m testing, with a balance of 32.5cm across all three).

I was expecting the 4G to provide a stiffer feel, with a louder sound, more ball compression, and less depth. To my surprise, the 4G actually sounded softer than the ZXP cross, as well as feeling softer, and I truthfully have no idea why…

Will post a follow-up this weekend after some harder hitting in a more competitive environment.

 

[skydog]

@Fed Kennedy , When I was swinging POG OSs with Ash Kev x ZX I was still prestretching and on that size head with that pattern I generally strung at 65/59.

I strung up an APD the other day after I prestretched both half sets. I used a winch to prestretch the Ash kev till it broke and did a manual prestretch of the ZX. I strung the APD at the same tension as I normally string non-prestretched Ash Kev x ZX in the APDs 62/58lbs. I took it to the court with another APD that had the same string but no prestretch. There was a slight difference in tension but I could use the rackets interchangeably.

How about after a few hours of hitting? Did the non prestretch get looser/more powerful?

 

[travlerajm]

How about after a few hours of hitting? Did the non prestretch get looser/more powerful?

I have done that experiment. The answer is yes.

 

[happyandbob]

stupid question -- is it possible to string kevlar without a pathfinder awl? that's what I've been using to get the kevlar through to tie-off, but wanted to see if there's some other way that's better/easier.

 

[graycrait]

How about after a few hours of hitting? Did the non prestretch get looser/more powerful?

Maybe a bit. But my young friend who plays at a 4.5- 5.0 level in a big city just had me string 3 of his 340g PDs. I strung them without prestretch and this is the 3rd time he has come to me for these strings. He tells me that what he likes about them is that once they settle they pretty much retain tension till they break.

 

[graycrait]

stupid question -- is it possible to string kevlar without a pathfinder awl? that's what I've been using to get the kevlar through to tie-off, but wanted to see if there's some other way that's better/easier.

I cut the ends to a sharp taper and dip 2-3" of the ends in a super thin super glue. Immediately wipe them with a rag and wait a minute or two and string them up. https://bsi-inc.com/hobby/insta_cure.html

 

[skydog]

I have done that experiment. The answer is yes.

That is what I thought. I have always done the pre-stretch and love the fact that after the initial hit/break in the stringbed remains consistent until the eventual Kevlar saw through. After reading the TW crew‘s experience of the stringbed getting a bit too powerful and control diminishing after a couple of weeks my guess was that they didn’t do a full pre-stretch routine.

 

[happyandbob]

That is what I thought. I have always done the pre-stretch and love the fact that after the initial hit/break in the stringbed remains consistent until the eventual Kevlar saw through. After reading the TW crew‘s experience of the stringbed getting a bit too powerful and control diminishing after a couple of weeks my guess was that they didn’t do a full pre-stretch routine.

I strung up a racquet last night with kevlar 17/zx 17 at 60/58 -- manually pre-stretched both strings and pulled tension twice on every string. string bed is super tight off the stringer, i'm excited to try it out.

 

[Astonish]

Got to hit with the Kev/4G @ 60lbs finally, to compare with the Kev/ZXP @ 60lbs. Unfortunately I had to restring all of my frames, so I wasn’t able to do an A/B comparison at the exact same time… but it had only been about 24 hours, so comparing the two setups is very fresh in my mind. The specs of the frames were unchanged (PT57A - 95” head with 18x20 string pattern - SW of either 360/380/400 depending on which spec I’m testing, with a balance of 32.5cm across all three).

I was expecting the 4G to provide a stiffer feel, with a louder sound, more ball compression, and less depth. To my surprise, the 4G actually sounded softer than the ZXP cross, as well as feeling softer, and I truthfully have no idea why…

Will post a follow-up this weekend after some harder hitting in a more competitive environment.

Following up on this…

After hitting the wall for one session, I’ve already started to notice some wear on the 4G crosses. I’m curious if you guys think this is an “ideal” wear pattern (flattening of the poly cross that still facilitates free movement for the kevlar mains)… or if instead this looks like denting/notching that might lock up the stringbed? I’ll keep an eye on it over time, but if this if this is where it’s at after just a couple hours on the wall, then I’m curious if you guys think these are notches in the works.

I didn’t look closely enough at the ZXP crosses when I had them in, but I would imagine that given their hardness, this wouldn’t have happened whatsoever with a zyex cross?

C9-AFE297-B368-4-D41-9-A5-D-329-B259-B3-F10 hosted at ImgBB

Image C9-AFE297-B368-4-D41-9-A5-D-329-B259-B3-F10 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[travlerajm]

Following up on this…

After hitting the wall for one session, I’ve already started to notice some wear on the 4G crosses. I’m curious if you guys think this is an “ideal” wear pattern (flattening of the poly cross that still facilitates free movement for the kevlar mains)… or if instead this looks like denting/notching that might lock up the stringbed? I’ll keep an eye on it over time, but if this if this is where it’s at after just a couple hours on the wall, then I’m curious if you guys think these are notches in the works.

I didn’t look closely enough at the ZXP crosses when I had them in, but I would imagine that given their hardness, this wouldn’t have happen whatsoever with a zyex cross?

C9-AFE297-B368-4-D41-9-A5-D-329-B259-B3-F10 hosted at ImgBB

Image C9-AFE297-B368-4-D41-9-A5-D-329-B259-B3-F10 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

If the poly cross wears flatter like a ribbon, that is much preferable to notching.

The zx crosses don’t really exhibit any wear, which is why I re-use old crosses (can skip the prestretch) along with fresh pre-stretched kevlar mains.

 

[Astonish]

If the poly cross wears flatter like a ribbon, that is much preferable to notching.

The zx crosses don’t really exhibit any wear, which is why I re-use old crosses (can skip the prestretch) along with fresh pre-stretched kevlar mains.

I want to be a little extra OCD about this, just for the sake of arm health. While ribbon-wear is definitely preferable to notching, would you say that ribbon-wear could still cause any slight locking of the stringbed (which causes discomfort for me) as opposed to zyex?

I may end up staying with ZXP even though I can’t take it above 60lbs, just to play it safe with the notching.

 

[skydog]

Following up on this…

After hitting the wall for one session, I’ve already started to notice some wear on the 4G crosses. I’m curious if you guys think this is an “ideal” wear pattern (flattening of the poly cross that still facilitates free movement for the kevlar mains)… or if instead this looks like denting/notching that might lock up the stringbed? I’ll keep an eye on it over time, but if this if this is where it’s at after just a couple hours on the wall, then I’m curious if you guys think these are notches in the works.

I didn’t look closely enough at the ZXP crosses when I had them in, but I would imagine that given their hardness, this wouldn’t have happen whatsoever with a zyex cross?

C9-AFE297-B368-4-D41-9-A5-D-329-B259-B3-F10 hosted at ImgBB

Image C9-AFE297-B368-4-D41-9-A5-D-329-B259-B3-F10 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

ZX do not display wear against other strings. They will saw through the Kevlar mains eventually, but it takes a bit of time. Only breakage I have had with ZX is over tightening on knots and one break due to a nick in the string during the stringing process.

 

[happyandbob]

convinced a buddy to play with me at 6 am before work today. this is my second time stringing kevlar/zx, but the first was in a steam 99s... which I don't particularly like so I never really gave it a run.

today was in an ezone 100. played a set and I enjoyed it. it seemed plenty comfortable (though I won't really know for a couple of days until my elbow weighs in with a verdict), and for sure I got back some of the spin I've been missing after I switched from poly to gut. I lost 6-4, but there were at least 5 or 6 balls that would have flown long with gut/poly that dipped down into the court. not as much spin as a shaped poly, but definitely more than gut. my second serve had more bite as well, but I couldn't quite get calibrated on my first... but not sure if that was the strings or just a bad day.

very interesting. if my elbow doesn't complain, i'll definitely keep using it

 

[Astonish]

Got to hit with the Kev/4G @ 60lbs finally, to compare with the Kev/ZXP @ 60lbs. Unfortunately I had to restring all of my frames, so I wasn’t able to do an A/B comparison at the exact same time… but it had only been about 24 hours, so comparing the two setups is very fresh in my mind. The specs of the frames were unchanged (PT57A - 95” head with 18x20 string pattern - SW of either 360/380/400 depending on which spec I’m testing, with a balance of 32.5cm across all three).

I was expecting the 4G to provide a stiffer feel, with a louder sound, more ball compression, and less depth. To my surprise, the 4G actually sounded softer than the ZXP cross, as well as feeling softer, and I truthfully have no idea why…

Will post a follow-up this weekend after some harder hitting in a more competitive environment.

Had a hard hitting sesh with the Kev/4G @ 60lbs today, and for whatever reason I'm really finding it to sail longer on me than the Kev/ZXP. I have no idea why, considering both were strung at 60lbs (both thoroughly prestretched a ton) and the 4G cross is of course stiffer than ZXP... but for whatever reason, I really am still having trouble with more power than I would like from this setup.

I can't quite figure out why a 4G cross would feel more powerful than ZXP, but tomorrow I'll be doing more extreme setups with my lead to see if I can find some answers. Just one of those days where the subjective findings aren't lining up with what should be happening objectively...

 

[Astonish]

Had a hard hitting sesh with the Kev/4G @ 60lbs today, and for whatever reason I'm really finding it to sail longer on me than the Kev/ZXP. I have no idea why, considering both were strung at 60lbs (both thoroughly prestretched a ton) and the 4G cross is of course stiffer than ZXP... but for whatever reason, I really am still having trouble with more power than I would like from this setup.

I can't quite figure out why a 4G cross would feel more powerful than ZXP, but tomorrow I'll be doing more extreme setups with my lead to see if I can find some answers. Just one of those days where the subjective findings aren't lining up with what should be happening objectively...

Had another follow-up session for this test. Looks like it was the lead setup causing me difficulties with too much power on groundstrokes. I’ll need to A/B the ZXP cross vs. 4G cross to see which setup I prefer with the Kev mains, but for now I’ve at least figured out where the issue was stemming from.

I was hoping to implement some of the extensive knowledge @travlerajm has shared, by going beyond the max-power SW range where spin-to-power ratio increases due to further ball compression… however my subjective findings unfortunately didn’t line up with how I thought things would play out. I did controlled testing of SW in the 350s, 360s, 370s, 380s, up to 400 max, and I found depth to increase proportionately with SW, to the point of unwanted power that even my flexy/dense-patterned PT57A couldn’t tame (plus Kev/4G @ 60lbs).

So I’ll back off the swingweight a bit to reduce power even more, and continue my quest for the lowest-powered setup I can find (A/B-ing Kev/ZXP vs. Kev/4G along the way, to see which string setup gets me closest).

 

[graycrait]

Odd. I had a 5.0 guy who lives 60 miles away contact me asking if I would string a few of his rackets with
Ash Kev/ZX. He says I am the only guy "local" who knows how to string this stuff. He said he swung one of the rackets I strung and couldn't believe how comfortable with spin it played. He hurt his elbow in a non tennis accident and is sending me a group of 4 stripe Pogs to play during his rehab. He is a former D1, now a Doc, who hangs out with Vanderbilt players and other high rollers. 7 of 8 of his office staff play tennis and one is brother in law of Isner's coach. Yeah, I am pitching this string set up, but have no skin in the game because I don't make money stringing or in any aspect of tennis. I say give it a shot in any RA 65+ 98+ open pattern racket strung at 62/58, hit it for an hour or 2, then play some match points and see how it works. I was killing it today in a Twistpower X97 against another old timer former D1 player who I am stringing Ash Kev/ZX in his Pure Drive. He is a long time Lux 4G player. This string combo still mystifies me.

 

[tlm]

I use a Kevlar main often and the ZX cross was ok but too springy for me. The Kevlar Main with 4G is pretty nice but I’ve been using Head Rip Control 16 gauge as a cross and find it the best for great performance and longevity. This set up has
mains and crosses that are control strings which really lets you swing out and control the ball. Plus even though I string them in 60’s it is a comfortable set up because the rip control is a very arm friendly string.

 

[graycrait]

@tlm , How long does the Head Rip Control last?

I have a friend who has been using Ash Kev mains quite a while . He was using NRG2 crosses but went to a slightly cheaper multi for the crosses. I think he said HDMX. We were laughing about how his Ash Kev can last 2-3 cross stringings. Yeah he is one of those guys. I told him with ZX crosses it will be the Ash Kev that goes before the ZX.

Even though he told me he purchased a ZX reel for the crosses he hasn't dialed in the tension. He typically string his Ash Kev mains at 55lbs using on an electric constant pull. I personally think this is too low for Ash Kev as I think it will likely drop into the mid to low 40s after a couple of hours of play. He is a USTA 4.0 at 62 yrs old and exclusively uses Head MG OS. I string nearly everything now when I string Ash Kev/ZX 62/58, unless it is 100+" head, then I'll go higher on the Ash Kev.

 

[tlm]

@tlm , How long does the Head Rip Control last?

I have a friend who has been using Ash Kev mains quite a while . He was using NRG2 crosses but went to a slightly cheaper multi for the crosses. I think he said HDMX. We were laughing about how his Ash Kev can last 2-3 cross stringings. Yeah he is one of those guys. I told him with ZX crosses it will be the Ash Kev that goes before the ZX.

Even though he told me he purchased a ZX reel for the crosses he hasn't dialed in the tension. He typically string his Ash Kev mains at 55lbs using on an electric constant pull. I personally think this is too low for Ash Kev as I think it will likely drop into the mid to low 40s after a couple of hours of play. He is a USTA 4.0 at 62 yrs old and exclusively uses Head MG OS. I string nearly everything now when I string Ash Kev/ZX 62/58, unless it is 100+" head, then I'll go higher on the Ash Kev.

I’m not a big string breaker and it lasts me at least a few weeks. After a couple weeks I rotate that racket into the only practice stick and the crosses will end up breaking

 

[Astonish]

He typically string his Ash Kev mains at 55lbs using on an electric constant pull. I personally think this is too low for Ash Kev as I think it will likely drop into the mid to low 40s after a couple of hours of play.

Do you notice much tension loss when using Kev/ZX that you’ve put through your winch? Curious to try a winch as opposed to just the manual (but intense) leaning that I’ve been doing.

 

[graycrait]

@Astonish , I think it all depends on how you string your racket and how you use your machine and initial reference tension. I never string Ash Kev less than 62lbs on my Wise. 65lbs on the lockout. To me winch stretched means boardy for a longer period of time. But then the guys I string for play with just one racket and leave the other matching rackets in reserve till the 1st one breaks, then grab another racket and another. 2 much better players than me who live in a big city 60 miles away drive the 120 round trip to drop off and pickup 3 or 4 rackets at a time. Then I won't see them for several months till they are down to their last racket.

I think winch stretching is going overboard and takes too much time. I think pulling the Ash Kev mains 3x each is good enough. Also using a Gamma Cam Action Pliers and an awl on each last Ash Kev main helps to maintain overall tension. Ash Kev is hard to rock the knot at the tie off and it so so easy to lose tension on those last mains because it stretches so little.

If you have the space winch stretching is not expensive to set up so why not do it? Maybe conduct some better documented experiments. If you do winch stretch Ash Kev and want the real feel of that stretch then string it up immediately. Those kevlar braided fibers tend to relax back to their original form.

I use 17g ZX Pro exclusively and I have broken enough at knots and at mid weave that I just don't prestretch it any longer. I just put the Wise on the slowest setting and string as normal. When I used the NEOS lock out crank I just cranked it "slowwwww" when I strung the ZX if I hadn't prestretched the ZX.

 

[Automatix]

Just went through reviews of Monogut ZX and I have to ask this...
I know that "one's man trash is another man's treasure" but come on... Most reviews are either "this is soft and comfortable like a multi" or "this is harsh and stiffer than poly"...
Anyone care to share their opinion why the reviews are so extremely different? I've never seen so opposite opinions.

 

[ey039524]

Just went through reviews of Monogut ZX and I have to ask this...
I know that "one's man trash is another man's treasure" but come on... Most reviews are either "this is soft and comfortable like a multi" or "this is harsh and stiffer than poly"...
Anyone care to share their opinion why the reviews are so extremely different? I've never seen so opposite opinions.

I'm not sure why some people think it's stiff. It's the softest rated non-natural gut on TW's string selector.

 

[Automatix]

I'm not sure why some people think it's stiff. It's the softest rated non-natural gut on TW's string selector.

I just can't find an explanation for this.
If it was overstreched/strung too tight it would most likely snap.
If it was strung loose it should be soft, mushy etc.
Just wondering what could be the reason...

 

[happyandbob]

I just can't find an explanation for this.
If it was overstreched/strung too tight it would most likely snap.
If it was strung loose it should be soft, mushy etc.
Just wondering what could be the reason...

I've only strung/played with it on 3 racquets but IME when stringing it feels stiffer than poly but it plays much softer than poly. So it feels stiffer in the hand, but plays softer on the court.

 

[Trip]

@Automatix - It has to do with distinct properties of PEEK material. It exhibits both poly-like properties, namely static stiffness and initial rebound characteristics, but also dynamic properties of natural gut. Since it's also very sensitive to how it's stretched and strung, and also to which cross/main it may be paired with in a hybrid if it's not Ash Kev, I'd imagine any or all of those things may have contributed to at least some of the variability of the reviews you've found.

@graycrait - I have to say, that last I left off with this combo, I just didn't see enough playability benefits wrestling with a long and somewhat strenuous pre-stretch of ZX, versus just very long 20-30 second pulls, either with my lockout or an eCP. I've also made a similar conclusion about the Kevlar as well -- 2x pulls (I'll try 3x next) right on the machine were good enough. I know the benefit of pre-stretching is less playability change and tension loss over time, but IMHO I have to agree with what Steve Crandall was saying about not pre-stretching ZX -- you just suck too much magic out of the string to make it worth it. In my first job on the Textreme Tour 100 310 (70/60 with no pre-stretch), I ended up getting 30+ hours of wonderful playability out of it before having to cut it out due to tension loss and string bed sag, versus subsequent pre-stretched jobs that, yes, were more consistent over time and probably could have lasted until the strings broke (at maybe double or triple the hours?), but the setup itself didn't play anywhere near as well fresh off the stringer out to that 30 or so hour mark. For me personally, then, no pre-stretch is plenty good enough from a perspective of play quality and cost over time. Obviously, we each have different preferences, but that's what I've found so far...

 

[skydog]

I just can't find an explanation for this.
If it was overstreched/strung too tight it would most likely snap.
If it was strung loose it should be soft, mushy etc.
Just wondering what could be the reason...

Most likely the sound it makes when strung full bed. First time I used Monogut ZX was full bed red strung on TW’s lock outs. It had a very strange sound to it and sound does equate to feel for most folks. Strung as a cross in a hybrid it sounds relatively normal, full bed it sound unlike anything I have ever hit.

It is an amazing string in a cross imho. It can be a pain in the butt during the stringing process, but it is worth the extra time required to string it properly.

 

[graycrait]

@skydog , https://www.daddario.com/products/o...ex-violin-string-set-44-scale-medium-tension/

 

[skydog]

@skydog , https://www.daddario.com/products/o...ex-violin-string-set-44-scale-medium-tension/

Not quite a violin sound, but definitely different.

 

[allenkau]

ZX do not display wear against other strings. They will saw through the Kevlar mains eventually, but it takes a bit of time. Only breakage I have had with ZX is over tightening on knots and one break due to a nick in the string during the stringing process.

Been using this combo with 3 players for at least 5 years. Kev breaks about every 2 weeks. NEVER had we ever broke a cross. Amazing.

 

[skydog]

Just went through reviews of Monogut ZX and I have to ask this...
I know that "one's man trash is another man's treasure" but come on... Most reviews are either "this is soft and comfortable like a multi" or "this is harsh and stiffer than poly"...
Anyone care to share their opinion why the reviews are so extremely different? I've never seen so opposite opinions.

So, I just listened to the TW Podcast with Ashaway again and may have found your answer. According to the president of Ashaway, when stringing Monogut ZX in a full bed, it is best to keep the tension between 50 and 60 lbs. If you go below 50 lbs the stringbed gets very springy and too powerful. If you go above 60 lbs, the stringbed gets extremely stiff (something to with the properties of the PEEK material that turn that gut like feel into a board when stretched too much). TW’s Michelle ended up at 57 lbs full bed and she is noted for stringing polys up into the 60’s. ZX is apparently a very sensitive string when it comes to tension, especially in a full bed. They also noted in the podcast that transitioning full poly players do not necessarily get the feedback they are looking for as ZX does not have that harsh feel when hit outside of the sweet spot. That is where the hybrid shines, kind of the Goldilocks set up between feel, comfort, control, and spin generation.

 

[skydog]

Pretty sure this has been posted before, but still one of the best videos on how to string Monogut ZX.

I still have been unable to source a pair of cam pliers. Google has failed me.
(I should say reasonably priced quality cam pliers)

 

[skydog]

So, I decided to take advantage of TW’s 30th anniversary sale and picked up some Prince Phantom 100G’s. 16 x 18 pattern.

The dilemma came when I went to string up the Kevar/ZX hybrid. My normal go-to tension when working with a new racquet and string pattern is 57 x 50 and then I adjust from there. Unfortunately, the max recommended string tension on the 100G is 55 lbs, so I am starting out at 55 x 50 lbs. which could be a good thing as the biggest knock on the 100G is that it is a bit under powered (one of aspects that attracted me as my current set up can be a touch too powerful if I have an off day and my strokes flatten out a bit). Thought about going up to 57 lbs anyway, but with the thin beams of the Phantom, I decided to stay within the range for now. Additionally, I was on the TW play test for the original Phantom, but only had limited time with the racquet as we had to ship them back after the play test for paint durability evaluation as the racquet was not quite ready for retail. I used the 57 x 50 lbs Kevlar/ZX hybrid on that racquet and found it a little bit under powered, but I also did not weight it up to my specs so I was not able to evaluate the power level with the extra weight.

I have the first one strung up to 55 x 50 and modified up to 369g / 10 HL with lead and Blue Tac. First test run will be next week.

 

[DariaGT]

ZxKev gurus need your input

Could I use Ashaway UltraNick 18 1.15mm which is a Squash Set also a Zyex string for crosses and some kind of 1.18-1.2mm Kevlar for mains?

Ashaway UltraNick 18 1.15mm Squash 110M Reel

Buy racquets, strings, bags, grips and accessories online at Racquet Depot UK. It is one of the largest internet resellers of brand name products for tennis, squash, badminton and injury supports.

www.racquetdepot.co.uk

 

[graycrait]

Could I use Ashaway UltraNick 18 1.15mm

We'll soon see, I ordered a set and will string it with 16g Ash Kev just to see how it works. I typically use 17g ZX as a cross with 16g Ash Kev.

 

[DariaGT]

We'll soon see, I ordered a set and will string it with 16g Ash Kev just to see how it works. I typically use 17g ZX as a cross with 16g Ash Kev.

I just realized there is also a 1.15 for tennis but my search is for a 1.15-1.2 kevlar main suggestion to suit this zyex 1.15mm

Ashaway Dynamite Soft 18/1.15 String | Tennis Warehouse

www.tennis-warehouse.com

 

[DariaGT]

Also has anyone tried the stronger Fluorocarbon vs Non Abrasive Nylon Fishing line or Mono as referred to by Fishermen?

260-300lbs seems to be around 1.10mm

There is also Braid!!! stainless steel coated with Nylon!!!

 

[travlerajm]

I bought some 16g fluoro polymer fishing line and tested it as a cross with kevlar.

It was really soft and stretchy. The problem was that it didn’t seem like it could hold tension. When I tried to prestretch it manually, I got an extra 36” on the 20-foot piece, and it was still going with no apparent end in sight. It was like taffy.

 

[DariaGT]

I bought some 16g fluoro polymer fishing line and tested it as a cross with kevlar.

It was really soft and stretchy. The problem was that it didn’t seem like it could hold tension. When I tried to prestretch it manually, I got an extra 36” on the 20-foot piece, and it was still going with no apparent end in sight. It was like taffy.

LOL that is incredible!

how about the mono nylon with fluoro coating, it is usually clear and the fluorocarbon coating gives it the outer hardness

This one I would love to try on a softer frame, stainless steel with soft nylon coating
This one I would love to try on a softer frame, stainless steel with soft nylon coating mains with clear nylon non abrasive crosses

 

[esgee48]

Metal strings will be easy to tension. What worries me is your ability to tie knots and keep that tension. Super slippery coatings may or may not work. @Shroud ’s prestretched 4G is a better idea. Heck, any manually prestretched hard poly should work.

 

[travlerajm]

I picked up some steel wire in both mono and multi form. I tried prestretching the multi, and it broke at the knot.

I never ended up actually trying it in the racquet. But curious. Maybe a steel/nylon hybrid or steel/poly hybrid would be interesting.

 

[DariaGT]

there is also Pro's Pro Concept that never notches vs any other poly string.
There are nylon mono filaments coated with fluorocarbon coating

More gauges would help

 

[Astonish]

Following up on the ZXP vs 4G cross dilemma…

The 4G did end up notching a bit more than I’d like to see. Granted, the 16g Kevlar was already sawed through surprisingly quickly, but along the way I did notice that the 4G didn’t stay as dent-free as I would’ve hoped.

I’m going back to a ZXP cross as a result, because it stays totally notch-free. That said, I wish I could tame the power more on a Kev/ZXP setup (both strung at 60lbs because I don’t want a differential messing with hoop deformity on my flexible PT57As).

With this in mind, do you think it’s viable to take the setup up to 65/65lbs, instead of 60/60? The limiting factor is of course the 17g Zyex Pro being strung above 60lbs.

In summary, I’d love to stiffen up the stringbed even further, but:

1.) I don’t want to use a differential with tighter mains.
2.) I don’t want a poly cross due to denting.
3.) I’m not sure if I should be going up to 65lbs on the ZXP (someone else is stringing my racquets, so I don’t want to ask for a tension that could break on them regularly).

Apart from just winging it with the ZXP at 65lbs, or maybe trying the 65lbs with ZX 16g instead, I feel like I might just be out of luck?

 

[DariaGT]

PPs Concept 1.2 and 1.33mm do not dent or notch compared to 4g.
4g I find is best as a full bed with thinner crosses of 4g vs Mains but pros like Agut and others use it as full beds.
I found thinner crosses than the mains accents the spin of the mains even if they are round.