For anyone curious about prestretching the natural gut (16g for this example) using the same method as kev/zx preferred in this thread… I was getting about 7” of permanent elongation (similar to poly) for a 20’ half set. I *maybe* could have gotten a tad more if I put 110% effort in, but I didn’t feel comfortable pulling with the amount of force that I would use on kevlar, for example. I still put in very strong pulls with my whole bodyweight, and 7” felt like 90-95% of what I could get out of it before breakage.
In praise of Kevlar/ZX hybrid!!!
- Thread starter marsh
- Start date
graycrait
Legend
I just picked up a used Yonex Vcore 100 which specs similarly to my trio of Prince Twistpower X97s which I admire for their style of flexibility and vibration level. I am hoping the much more easier to support Yonex Vcore 100 is easier to source grommet sets for and its future stick models remain true to form save paint and names. I fear the Prince X97 Tours are unicorn rackets that if you do not have any now you will never find another.
skydog
Professional
Just an update on my Prince 100 G setup. I was initially a bit skeptical running a lower differential than I have run before with this hybrid, but the 55 x 50 lb initial stringing tensions have held up well over the past few months.
The biggest limiting factor I have come across over the last several frames is the Zyex tension. Keeping Zyex under 60 lbs has limited my max tension to the low to mid 50’s when you account for the prestretch tension in my machine. As I have used a few oversize frames and a fairly wide open stringing pattern frame (16 x 16), I have had to increase the Kevlar main tension to either maintain a desired power level and/or control main string snap back/movement. With the 100 G being fairly low powered, the 5 lb differential has worked out better than I anticipated. It has held up so well, that I willing to try an even lower differential in my second 100 G and will begin experimenting with 52 x 50 lbs in an effort to tweak a bit more power out of this frame. We will see how this holds up in the coming weeks.
The biggest limiting factor I have come across over the last several frames is the Zyex tension. Keeping Zyex under 60 lbs has limited my max tension to the low to mid 50’s when you account for the prestretch tension in my machine. As I have used a few oversize frames and a fairly wide open stringing pattern frame (16 x 16), I have had to increase the Kevlar main tension to either maintain a desired power level and/or control main string snap back/movement. With the 100 G being fairly low powered, the 5 lb differential has worked out better than I anticipated. It has held up so well, that I willing to try an even lower differential in my second 100 G and will begin experimenting with 52 x 50 lbs in an effort to tweak a bit more power out of this frame. We will see how this holds up in the coming weeks.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
The 60 lbs is just a guideline.
The racquet I’ve been using as my main frame (strung over a year ago and now with >100h of play on it) is a Prince Tour 100 18x20.
I prestretched kevlar 16g and zx pro black in my hotel room, and had it strung by the local shop at 63 lbs both mains and crosses. Still plays great.
A little bit oftop but kevlar hybrid is very comfortable and it retains its properties throughout its lifespan, there it is 57+ pages thread about kevlar
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
If you dont have fresh strings every 9 games then poly is not for you, Polys lose their properties lighting quick
In praise of Kevlar/ZX hybrid!!!
I'm 4 sessions (approx 8 hours) into my experiment with this string combo. Strung kevlar mains at 60 and Zyex crosses at 40 Lbs (in my Angell 95). Wow!!! Easy spin, with proper technique. Extreme control. Absolutely 0 discomfort. I can't recommend this combo highly enough. There were a few...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Seems there is a need to string kevlar taut IMHO. Welcome to Pro Blend.A little bit oftop but kevlar hybrid is very comfortable and it retains its properties throughout its lifespan, there it is 57+ pages thread about kevlar
If you dont have fresh strings every 9 games then poly is not for you, Polys lose their properties lighting quickIn praise of Kevlar/ZX hybrid!!!
I'm 4 sessions (approx 8 hours) into my experiment with this string combo. Strung kevlar mains at 60 and Zyex crosses at 40 Lbs (in my Angell 95). Wow!!! Easy spin, with proper technique. Extreme control. Absolutely 0 discomfort. I can't recommend this combo highly enough. There were a few...
graycrait
Legend
@Ronaldo , I'm pretty sure Problend has some twisted aramid fibers encased in some kind of "plastic or nylon." I tried it and it reminded me of my public park days hitting with a Dayton steel racket strung with stainless steel wire/cable. I have one of those Daytons on the wall.
Today, I mean if I have to go hit right now with no time to install a fresh bed of Prince Diablo 17 (cheap extinct round poly I have oodles of) I grab a racket strung with Ash Kev x ZX at a minimum of 60lbs ref tension on the Ash Kev mains, higher as head size goes up. I always string ZX at 59lbs. Those rackets strung with Ash Kev x ZX can sometimes hang on the wall for months and still play predictably with comfort and snap back. Because I am cheap these days in regards to string I am trying to love syn gut but you have to string that stuff about every other outing and I am too lazy for that. Price is right though. I tried to like Polylon too because it is inexpensive but gave that poly up.
Today, I mean if I have to go hit right now with no time to install a fresh bed of Prince Diablo 17 (cheap extinct round poly I have oodles of) I grab a racket strung with Ash Kev x ZX at a minimum of 60lbs ref tension on the Ash Kev mains, higher as head size goes up. I always string ZX at 59lbs. Those rackets strung with Ash Kev x ZX can sometimes hang on the wall for months and still play predictably with comfort and snap back. Because I am cheap these days in regards to string I am trying to love syn gut but you have to string that stuff about every other outing and I am too lazy for that. Price is right though. I tried to like Polylon too because it is inexpensive but gave that poly up.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Prince Pro Blend was around during the days of Wide-bodies. Ashaway has their version. Seemed ZX lost so much tension, I stopped using it.
graycrait
Legend
When I was trying to use Tennis Tension and Racquet Tune I estimated that an Ash Kev x ZX stringbed dropped from a 62/59 ref tension to about 48-50 after several hours of play and then just stayed there. If I used a winch to prestretch I could make a stringbed feel like a board by upping the ref tension on the mains to around 70+lbs. I hit around with that stringbed for about 20 minutes and then cut it out. As far as I know there is no aramid/kevlar racket string manufactured like Ash Kev:
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Forten aramid nothing like Ashaway?When I was trying to use Tennis Tension and Racquet Tune I estimated that an Ash Kev x ZX stringbed dropped from a 62/59 ref tension to about 48-50 after several hours of play and then just stayed there. If I used a winch to prestretch I could make a stringbed feel like a board by upping the ref tension on the mains to around 70+lbs. I hit around with that stringbed for about 20 minutes and then cut it out. As far as I know there is no aramid/kevlar racket string manufactured like Ash Kev:
graycrait
Legend
Forten is like ProBlend, not like Ashaway. I've tried kevlar kite string too, which is the closest thing to Ash Kev I could find but it is woven too loose. Maybe Ash Kev is not unique but it sure is an anomaly when compared to all other aramid/kevlar racket strings that I have purchased. I call Ash Kev x ZX lazy man's poly, good enough for most rec hacks for spin and especially for comfort, but not specialized enough to compete with high dollar poly it your UTR is high enough. I still think because of the material and the weave, Ash Kev absorbs vibration. It can be too loose or even too tight, but in its strike zone Ash Kev x ZX plays pretty well for a long time. Ash Kev x Ash Kev sucks, as does ZX x ZX, but together it is something to play around with if one has the patience to find their own ref tension sweet spot. I have solid 62+ USTA 4.0 friend who uses Ash Kev in the mains and NXT in the crosses. I shake my head at that because he will change just the NXT crosses up to 3x, whereas it is the Ash Kev that cuts itself through against the ZX cross long after he has gone through several NXT crosses. Although he is a mere child compared to me he is set in his ways like many old men
graycrait
Legend
I would think Ash Kev x ZX would be perfect for an o-port abomination. A true tennis elbow rehab racket/string combo I would think.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Used an ESP racquet the past 8 yrs. Flexible, an open string pattern. Comfy series. Love stringing O-ports.
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AceyMan
Professional
ZX is super stretchy as it's tensioned ("it really plasticizes" may be the engineering term) and so it just won't do well on a lockout. It requires a slow constant pull (drop-weight == ideal) or else you won't get even close to reference tension.
My 2¢.
skydog
Professional
That is the perfect hybrid for that racquet. Played that combo for a few years. For a racquet known as a string eater, the Kev/ZX lasts a long time.
I've been using the original recipe for years: 60/40, prestretched at 90/60. Only real deviation was to go from 16g kevlar to 18. I like the feel of 18 a lot better for most of the year. It can get a bit too lively in the heat of summer so I'll use 16g then.
I'm getting lazy and my only real complaint is the hassle of prestretching. Has anyone figured out non-prestretch tensions that will play the same once they settle in? And if so how long does it take to break in?
I'm getting lazy and my only real complaint is the hassle of prestretching. Has anyone figured out non-prestretch tensions that will play the same once they settle in? And if so how long does it take to break in?
D
Deleted member 775108
Guest
Yes @graycrait only does it this way now
60 minimum for kevlar / 59 no matter what for ZXP (higher for Kevlar for OS)
In praise of Kevlar/ZX hybrid!!!
Following up on the ZXP vs 4G cross dilemma… The 4G did end up notching a bit more than I’d like to see. Granted, the 16g Kevlar was already sawed through surprisingly quickly, but along the way I did notice that the 4G didn’t stay as dent-free as I would’ve hoped. I’m going back to a ZXP...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
In praise of Kevlar/ZX hybrid!!!
For anyone curious about prestretching the natural gut (16g for this example) using the same method as kev/zx preferred in this thread… I was getting about 7” of permanent elongation (similar to poly) for a 20’ half set. I *maybe* could have gotten a tad more if I put 110% effort in, but I...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
Last edited by a moderator:
graycrait
Legend
I'm with you @srimes. I quit prestretching a couple of years ago. I used to body prestretch clamping one end in a wood vice with sandpaper in the jaws and then clamp the other end in a C clamp with sandpapered jaws. Then I set up a winch where I could pull Ash Kev till it broke and could pull about 29" out of the ZX before it broke. All that added "eons" to the stringing process because I found with the Ash Kev if you waited too long to string it that it would creep back towards original, not all the way, just some of the way. ZX stays prestretched but I kept occasionally getting ZX breakage while I was stringing it in the crosses. It would still stretch like taffy, prestretched or not. So I quit prestretching it that way.
With my crank head on the NEOS 1000 I would pull tension 3X on the Ash Kev and string the ZX crosses as any string. Then when I got my Wise I quit pulling tension 3X on the Ash Kev mains. I just set the prestretch function on and set the pull speed to the slowest setting and that is how I do it now.
I used to monkey around with Racquet Tune and Tennis Tension and came up with some SWAG using those tools coming up with a settled stringbed after and a day and couple of hours of hitting of a stringbed of around 48lbs till the Ash Kev broke. As @gold325 mentioned I string all rackets strung with Ash Kev x ZX with a ref tension of 59lbs for the ZX crosses. If I string a 93-95" I string at 62lbs for Ash Kev mains; 96-100 65lbs and anything over 100 at 68lbs. Works for me and it worked for a 28 yr old 5.0 until he moved to Colorado in his Pure Drives. I don't string for money and any locals who know I string and do their rackets are sworn to secrecy because at my age I don't want a part time job. Take my notions with a grain of salt. Ash Kev x ZX may sound like snake oil and it may be but I like it and use it as my own snake oil string. I just don't use it in really soft or low power rackets. I need some power help with soft rackets so turn to all the other standard issue petroleum strings everyone quibbles about
The only other advice about stringing Ash Kev x ZX is I have repeated over and over is: dip the ends of the Ash Kev after cutting to spear point in thin viscosity super glue and wipe off immediately, leaves the points hard and sharp. 2d is do not clamp the ZX close to the frame, give it room to stretch around those two 90 degree turns. It doesn't seem to make any difference if you allow yourself 1/4+" at frame before clamping the ZX with regards to playability and it avoids some aggravation when for some "inexplicable" reason it breaks midway weaving the crosses.
skydog
Professional
I have been experimenting with Kev/ZX at 51 x 50 in my Prince 100G for the past few weeks and have been impressed so far. It is the lowest I have strung Ash Kev in any racquet and was fearing main string movement and tension loss, but it has held up quite well. Of course, I pre stretch it in my Wise at 25% and pull each center main twice so it should not have much stretch left it, but I did have some issues at higher tensions in open patterns in the past.
Since the 100G is a relatively low powered racquet, I was looking to add a bit more power to the setup and dropping down 4 lbs to 51 lbs on the mains has added a bit more power and pocketing. Nothing dramatic, but there has been a noticeable improvement and a better overall feel off the string bed. I do not notice much of a change on my ground strokes or overheads, but on volleys and shots where I am stretched out I am getting better depth and less short balls. The feel has improved, especially on off center hits, as the frame is less buzzy on balls struck out on the edge of the string bed. The only downside, so far, is a tendency to go a bit too deep with fresh tennis balls if I do not put enough top spin into my stroke. If I always played with fresh tennis balls I would probably go up a few lbs, but since I play mostly in drills and see fresh tennis balls less frequently I believe this tension pairing may be a winner.
Next experiment, a fresh ball string tension. That way I can carry one frame for when the freshies get put into the basket.
Since the 100G is a relatively low powered racquet, I was looking to add a bit more power to the setup and dropping down 4 lbs to 51 lbs on the mains has added a bit more power and pocketing. Nothing dramatic, but there has been a noticeable improvement and a better overall feel off the string bed. I do not notice much of a change on my ground strokes or overheads, but on volleys and shots where I am stretched out I am getting better depth and less short balls. The feel has improved, especially on off center hits, as the frame is less buzzy on balls struck out on the edge of the string bed. The only downside, so far, is a tendency to go a bit too deep with fresh tennis balls if I do not put enough top spin into my stroke. If I always played with fresh tennis balls I would probably go up a few lbs, but since I play mostly in drills and see fresh tennis balls less frequently I believe this tension pairing may be a winner.
Next experiment, a fresh ball string tension. That way I can carry one frame for when the freshies get put into the basket.
@skydog - Thanks for sharing. A few questions:
- What gauge Kevlar?
- How many hours do you get before restringing, and why do you typically restring (ie: when the Kevlar breaks, too much tension drop, etc.)?
- What is your ability level, and do you ever play league/tourney's with this string setup?
Thanks!
- What gauge Kevlar?
- How many hours do you get before restringing, and why do you typically restring (ie: when the Kevlar breaks, too much tension drop, etc.)?
- What is your ability level, and do you ever play league/tourney's with this string setup?
Thanks!
I'm with you @srimes. I quit prestretching a couple of years ago. I used to body prestretch clamping one end in a wood vice with sandpaper in the jaws and then clamp the other end in a C clamp with sandpapered jaws. Then I set up a winch where I could pull Ash Kev till it broke and could pull about 29" out of the ZX before it broke. All that added "eons" to the stringing process because I found with the Ash Kev if you waited too long to string it that it would creep back towards original, not all the way, just some of the way. ZX stays prestretched but I kept occasionally getting ZX breakage while I was stringing it in the crosses. It would still stretch like taffy, prestretched or not. So I quit prestretching it that way.
With my crank head on the NEOS 1000 I would pull tension 3X on the Ash Kev and string the ZX crosses as any string. Then when I got my Wise I quit pulling tension 3X on the Ash Kev mains. I just set the prestretch function on and set the pull speed to the slowest setting and that is how I do it now.
I used to monkey around with Racquet Tune and Tennis Tension and came up with some SWAG using those tools coming up with a settled stringbed after and a day and couple of hours of hitting of a stringbed of around 48lbs till the Ash Kev broke. As @gold325 mentioned I string all rackets strung with Ash Kev x ZX with a ref tension of 59lbs for the ZX crosses. If I string a 93-95" I string at 62lbs for Ash Kev mains; 96-100 65lbs and anything over 100 at 68lbs. Works for me and it worked for a 28 yr old 5.0 until he moved to Colorado in his Pure Drives. I don't string for money and any locals who know I string and do their rackets are sworn to secrecy because at my age I don't want a part time job. Take my notions with a grain of salt. Ash Kev x ZX may sound like snake oil and it may be but I like it and use it as my own snake oil string. I just don't use it in really soft or low power rackets. I need some power help with soft rackets so turn to all the other standard issue petroleum strings everyone quibbles about
The only other advice about stringing Ash Kev x ZX is I have repeated over and over is: dip the ends of the Ash Kev after cutting to spear point in thin viscosity super glue and wipe off immediately, leaves the points hard and sharp. 2d is do not clamp the ZX close to the frame, give it room to stretch around those two 90 degree turns. It doesn't seem to make any difference if you allow yourself 1/4+" at frame before clamping the ZX with regards to playability and it avoids some aggravation when for some "inexplicable" reason it breaks midway weaving the crosses.
I strung my 93P at 62/58, played a few times and it still feels TIGHT. Still quite playable and interesting in that it has a lower launch angle. But I plan to drop the cross tension a bit next time.
I think stringer/method is a big factor in our differing results. I have a drop weight machine and pulled each string until I didn't see movement. This seems like the only repeatable method with my stringer and must be tighter than with yours.
Any guess as to what I should try next? I'm thinking 52 lb.
graycrait
Legend
@srimes , I quit using Ash Kev x ZX in rackets 95" and smaller, especially in lower RA ranges. I have it in one of my weighted up 97" 18x20 Ultra Tours and it is playable but IMHO marginally. I really like it in my "heavy" PS 97LS open pattern and "heavy" Vcore 100.
How many hours do you have on the court with the 93P strung with the Ash Kev x ZX? Does your 93P have 14 or 18 mains?
How many hours do you have on the court with the 93P strung with the Ash Kev x ZX? Does your 93P have 14 or 18 mains?
Not sure how many hours, maybe 4. I suppose it could loosen up but I haven't noticed it yet. My 93p is 14x16.
graycrait
Legend
It appears you are on the right track by going down in ref tension. It will be interesting to read your impressions as you drop Ash Kev x ZX lower and lower. If I string it on my Wise/NEOS any lower than 55 I find it reaches a point in a couple of hours I can't really play it. I no longer use Ash Kev x ZX in rackets much lower than RA 65 or sub 95". Ash Kev x ZX in low RA or Mid size rackets seems to take too much work for my 68yr old arms. And in my opinion, unlike poly, you don't get more power out of Ash Kev below a certain point. Those are my own notions and they likely have little bearing on what the young guns are doing.
skydog
Professional
16 gauge on both Kevlar and Monogut ZX.
I have gone over 100 hours of play on this hybrid, normally restring based on how fast the ZX notches the Kevlar (It takes a while)
No official tennis ranking, play at a 3.5 to 4.0 level (Texas) per the local pros assessment. Not a tournament or league player, mainly drills.
Strings broke yesterday. Before they did I was thinking that there were finally starting to loosen up just a little lol. Good thing about this string-eater is I'm not stuck with a mediocre string job for long!
Yeah the 93 is a little too much for me. I bought it just for fun and training but I definitely play better (and work less hard!) with my 98.
graycrait
Legend
A few years ago I had nearly every 93 Prince made back in the day, all 14x18. I had 9 POG Mids at one time. Eventually traded or gave them all away. I do have a pair of Volkl Tour 10 Mids 18x20 93" for when I feel 65 yrs old. My daily players currently are 5 97" rackets, 2 Ultra Tour 18x20s and 3 Twistpower 16x19s. Ash Kev x ZX in the Ultra Tour is not working for me, but it works nicely in the Twistpowers. I'm setting up an out of production 16x15 100" Ultra XP with added weight and eventually Ash Kev x ZX. I also have 3 or 4 more "spin effect" rackets inbound to have fun with. A really fun Ash Kev x ZX strung racket is the old Wilson 5.7Eb 115 18x20 chopped to 27.3". It is not your dad's "granny stick." My 337g Vcore 100 16x19 hits a nice ball with Ash Kev x ZX, between the racket and the string it is so muted as to be disconcerting for some but it is so comfortable without feeling mushy.
Finally got around to testing this hybrid. My setup was Ashaway Kevlar 16 + Monogut ZX Pro 17 @ 60/40 in a Wilson Burn 100S.
My initial impression was that it was quite stiff. Granite, the frame itself is stiff so I wasn't too impressed in regards to comfort. However, after about 3 or 4 sessions the strings have settled in - much softer and springy. My return of serve is pretty much point-and-shoot due to this. Great spin on serve and groundstrokes. Kevlar mains stay in place while the ZX is slippery. Overall I like it but probably wouldn't use it if I had a more power-oriented game. Pictures
My initial impression was that it was quite stiff. Granite, the frame itself is stiff so I wasn't too impressed in regards to comfort. However, after about 3 or 4 sessions the strings have settled in - much softer and springy. My return of serve is pretty much point-and-shoot due to this. Great spin on serve and groundstrokes. Kevlar mains stay in place while the ZX is slippery. Overall I like it but probably wouldn't use it if I had a more power-oriented game. Pictures
I've been using these Ashaway strings for a few years now and I really like them
Does anyone use these strings on clay?
The few times I've played on clay, the stringbed locked up pretty quick, the Kevlar mains would no longer move and snap back along the ZX crosses, and a lot of the benefits of this setup seemed to be lost... spin and control definitely reduced. I wonder if the clay particles get lodged int the Kevlar strands and make them unable to slide across the ZX.
Has anyone else noticed that? Or do you guys play with different strings on clay? Or what
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happyandbob
Legend
Hmm. I've been toying with the idea of revisiting kevlar/ZX but I'm trying to play on har-tru as much as possible to save my knees and this makes me think twice. Were you playing on red clay or har-tru?
shug
Rookie
I once used Prince Pro Blend. I wanted to move to a 17 ga, but had no idea there were other Kevlar's out there. For several years I struggled to find some thing similar (my serve suffered). Not until I started stringing did I find out about Ashaway Kevlar in 17. So I mixed the 2, Prince syngut/duraflex and the Kevlar. The combination is better due to the Kevlar with Prince is not fully Kevlar, where as Ashaway's Kevlar is full Kevlar. One day I might try that ZX.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I used ashaway kevlar 1.30 / zx pro black prestretched thoroughly at 60 lbs for my prestige pro review in the TTW Prestige Playtest.
My comfy controlled hits with the prestige with grabby stringbed feel reminded me of how exceptionally good this hybrid is.
My comfy controlled hits with the prestige with grabby stringbed feel reminded me of how exceptionally good this hybrid is.
Anyone tried Crossfire ZX in an RF97? I'm seeking info on the ideal tension. I thought it would be a good way to reduce the static weight as the kevlar strings are so light. What's the weight of this hybrid strung in a 97 sq inch head?
I think I should also mentioned i'm battling a little bit of golfers elbow so I need the string bed to feel soft for now. Thanks anyone who knows the info i'm after !
I think I should also mentioned i'm battling a little bit of golfers elbow so I need the string bed to feel soft for now. Thanks anyone who knows the info i'm after !
