In terms of level, did Djokovic decline after 2011?

Did Djokovic play worse in 2012-2014 than he did in 2011?

  • Yes, he played significantly worse

    Votes: 7 14.9%
  • Yes, but only slightly worse

    Votes: 25 53.2%
  • About the same level

    Votes: 10 21.3%
  • No, he played better in 2012-2014

    Votes: 5 10.6%

  • Total voters
    47

Megafanoftennis100

Professional
A vast majority of tennis fans, even including Fedal fans and Nole haters, agree that Djokovic’s level in the first 3/4 of 2011 was truly legendary. He started the season with a 41-match winning streak, won 3/4 Grand Slams (only stopped by Federer playing the very best clay court match of his career) and 5/7 Masters 1000 titles he participated in. He also went 10-1 in H2H against near-prime Federer and prime Nadal.
However, after 2011, he was no longer winning Grand Slams and Masters 1000 titles at the same rate. In the next three seasons leading up to 2015, he won “only” 1 Slam in each of them.
So this makes me wonder, was Djokovic playing at a worse level in 2012, 2013 and 2014 than he did in 2011? Or did his rivals simply figure him out (e.g. like how Federer figured out Nadal in 2017)?
And if he did really decline so much, does anyone know why?
 

Megafanoftennis100

Professional
Djokovic started to decline in 2011, same as Fed declined since 2008 after he was beaten by Nadal at Wimbledon, and Rafa himself declined since 2009, after he was beaten by Söderling at RG.
Anyways, the tour is so full of mugs that almost nobody ever noticed it.
I agree with everything you said except for the “mug” part. Come on, you gotta acknowledge players like Roddick, Safin, Murray, Wawrinka, Del Potro, Thiem (until 2020), Medvedev and Alcaraz. Yes, there were (and still are) some relatively incompetent players on the ATP (but that is obviously inevitable in any era of sports lol), but I don’t think it would be fair to discredit or ignore the players mentioned above, who were able to go hold their own very well against the Big Three in their prime.
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
about the same level. Difference in 2012 to 2011 was he faced Federer at Wimbledon and had the wind to contend with at USO. 2011 W goes the same way if tsonga didn’t do him a favour and remove fed
 

Megafanoftennis100

Professional
about the same level. Difference in 2012 to 2011 was he faced Federer at Wimbledon and had the wind to contend with at USO. 2011 W goes the same way if tsonga didn’t do him a favour and remove fed
Wait, you are not saying that 2011 Fed would have beaten 2011 Djokovic at Wimbledon, are you? 2011 Djokovic >> 2011 Federer on grass. Djokovic convincingly beat Tsonga in the semis, whereas Federer lost to Tsonga. So 2011 Djokovic definitely scales above 2011 Federer on grass.
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
Wait, you are not saying that 2011 Fed would have beaten 2011 Djokovic at Wimbledon, are you? 2011 Djokovic >> 2011 Federer on grass. Djokovic convincingly beat Tsonga in the semis, whereas Federer lost to Tsonga. So 2011 Djokovic definitely scales above 2011 Federer on grass.
Yea probably in 4 sets, similar to their 2012 match
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
I agree with everything you said except for the “mug” part. Come on, you gotta acknowledge players like Roddick, Safin, Murray, Wawrinka, Del Potro, Thiem (until 2020), Medvedev and Alcaraz. Yes, there were (and still are) some relatively incompetent players on the ATP (but that is obviously inevitable in any era of sports lol), but I don’t think it would be fair to discredit or ignore the players mentioned above, who were able to go hold their own very well against the Big Three in their prime.
Those mugs from 10 to 20 years ago were indeed better mugs than today mugs.
I would be very grateful if I could still watch them play today.
 

Megafanoftennis100

Professional
Yea probably in 4 sets, similar to their 2012 match
Are you having serious problems with basic maths? If so, then it’s OK, I would be more than willing to help you.
But as I told you, via scaling, 2011 Djokovic > 2011 Tsonga > 2011 Federer. 2011 Djokovic beat Tsong, who beat 2011 Federer! 2>1, and 3>2, so 3>>1.
It’s called inequalities. ;)
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
A vast majority of tennis fans, even including Fedal fans and Nole haters, agree that Djokovic’s level in the first 3/4 of 2011 was truly legendary. He started the season with a 41-match winning streak, won 3/4 Grand Slams (only stopped by Federer playing the very best clay court match of his career) and 5/7 Masters 1000 titles he participated in. He also went 10-1 in H2H against near-prime Federer and prime Nadal.
However, after 2011, he was no longer winning Grand Slams and Masters 1000 titles at the same rate. In the next three seasons leading up to 2015, he won “only” 1 Slam in each of them.
So this makes me wonder, was Djokovic playing at a worse level in 2012, 2013 and 2014 than he did in 2011? Or did his rivals simply figure him out (e.g. like how Federer figured out Nadal in 2017)?
And if he did really decline so much, does anyone know why?
Djokovic did not decline in 2012 13 14. But Nadal figured out a way out of the deadly combination in 2012. And Andy Murray got better mentally by 2012 midway. And also then Wawrinka was never easy for Nole. But he got better in all departments.
 

Megafanoftennis100

Professional
Those mugs from 10 to 20 years ago were indeed better mugs than today mugs.
I would be very grateful if I could still watch them play today.
Yeah I would really pay to see how the following matches between the previous gen’s top players and the current gen’s top players would turn out:
Alcaraz vs Safin
Medvedev vs Roddick
Thiem (pre-2020) vs Hewitt
Wawrinka vs Davydenko
Murray vs Nalbandian
Nishikori vs Baghdatis
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
Yeah I would really pay to see how the following matches between the previous gen’s top players and the current gen’s top players would turn out:
Alcaraz vs Safin
Medvedev vs Roddick
Thiem (pre-2020) vs Hewitt
Wawrinka vs Davydenko
Murray vs Nalbandian
Nishikori vs Baghdatis
Del Potro vs Taylor Fritz.
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
Are you having serious problems with basic maths? If so, then it’s OK, I would be more than willing to help you.
But as I told you, via scaling, 2011 Djokovic > 2011 Tsonga > 2011 Federer. 2011 Djokovic beat Tsong, who beat 2011 Federer! 2>1, and 3>2, so 3>>1.
It’s called inequalities. ;)
that’s not how tennis match ups work lol. fed beat djokovic in 2011 and held double MP at the uso. I’m confident if he overcame tsonga, his game matches up too well for djokovic for him to lose on grass in 2011 with his old racket. I believe we saw such a match up in 2012.
 

Megafanoftennis100

Professional
that’s not how tennis match ups work lol. fed beat djokovic in 2011 and held double MP at the uso. I’m confident if he overcame tsonga, his game matches up too well for djokovic for him to lose on grass in 2011 with his old racket. I believe we saw such a match up in 2012.
Yeah I know, I was just kidding lol. Sometimes, I find trolling to be quite amusing.

Jokes aside, yeah Federer could have beaten Djokovic at Wimbledon 2011, fine, but I still think he would have lost to Nadal in the final. At that time, Fed still hadn’t figured out Rafa yet, so it would have been like the 2008 Wimbledon final all over again.
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
If it were a healthy and uninjured Del Potro against Taylor Fritz, then Del Potro destroys him without a doubt.
The guy defeated prime Federer at the USO and even pushed prime Djokovic to 5 at Wimbledon. No way in hell does he lose to Fritz.
Of course, I said that match, because I wanted to watch a total evisceration.
 

Megafanoftennis100

Professional
I don't think it would be a gorish show.
Lol you’re right, it wouldn’t be a gorish show. It would be even worse.
2011 Djokovic beat a 29 year old Federer in straight sets. That was perhaps one of the highest level AO matches that anyone has played. Whereas Alcaraz had to go all out to just barely beat a 36 year old Djokovic, who is far past his prime, in a tournament that isn’t even played on Djokovic’s best surface. Heck, even this year’s Djokovic would have beaten Alcaraz at AO, let alone a significantly superior version minus a hamstring injury.
Prime Djokovic on Rod Laver Arena may perhaps be the closest to perfection in tennis, rivaled only by prime Nadal on Philipp Chatrier court.
2011 Djokovic vs 2023 Alcaraz at AO, especially in the semis or the finals, would make the 2008 RG final look like a close match. And if 2011 Djokovic somehow gets to know about his future self’s loss against Alcaraz and is aiming to avenge it, then the match would be so brutally one-sided that even Djokovic’s own fans would boo at him for being too inhumane.
 

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
definitely a little bit worse but I also think that the difference is a bit overstated, the Tour did catch up and adapt to him as well, and I think his insane BHDTL faded a bit as well as his raw explosiveness after the 2011 injury.
 
definitely a little bit worse but I also think that the difference is a bit overstated, the Tour did catch up and adapt to him as well, and I think his insane BHDTL faded a bit as well as his raw explosiveness after the 2011 injury.
Mentally in big matches, he was significanly worse and his level was far more inconsistent as a result, though at least in 2012 and 2013, his explosiveness from the baseline wasn't much changed from 2011.

2011 Djoko would easily win AO and USO in 2012 and 3 Slams in 2013-2014.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Unlike now, Joker had more demanding competition and at the time it was much harder for him to rack up Major titles without failing.
:D
 
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nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
He was very close to his 2011 level, but just got unlucky. I mean he was close to beating prime Nadal in RG 2013. And he won Wimbledon 2014.
He might have won USO 2012 as well. He was not unlucky but the level was very high from him. Wind took away some from him that day, I think without it he was the superior player.
 

Megafanoftennis100

Professional
Yeah I think that Djokovic's level in 2011 was so supernaturally high that it was unsustainable and I honestly wouldn't blame him for a drop in his level in subsequent years.
Although he did play better in some of the Slams between 2012-2014 than in 2011. E.g. in 2013 RG, he nearly beat prime Nadal and in 2014 Wimby, he beat a still very capable Federer. At the Australian Open, however, his 2011 version remains unparalleled. And as for the US Open, his 2011 version is clearly better than in any of the later seasons, except for maybe 2015.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
"Slightly" sounds like an understatement, "significantly" sounds like an oversatement. He was fairly worse, the biggest difference being his mental.
Was it mental ? Maybe. But if he did then I don't understand why. At most I would imagine it was because he was getting used to being number 1. He had spent years as number 3, and then everyone came for him. Andy Murray, Roger Federer, Rafa Nadal. Especially Murray and Nadal.

Also 2011 was astronomical numbers. Vs pretty strong field. He could have been a 2 slam champion in 2011. He got a bit lucky. So 2012 when he didn't get lucky and played Federer in Wimbledon was going to be a bit worse.

2013 Nole definitely got no excuses as he was beaten by Nadal who was playing better than 2011 and Murray who out of nowhere just beat Nole. 2013 was maybe a step down from 2011. But not 2012.

And 2014, he was playing well in 2014 but in Melbourne he was starting partnership with Boris who laid groundwork for his offensive game.

2014 USOpen was the worst loss in his peak. There are no excuses. Nole wasn't fit enough.

So 2011 and 2012 he played at roughly the same level. 2013 he was just a little bit worse and 2014 overall was much worse than 2011.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Was Djokovic 2011 the best Djokovic at Wimbledon? The stats guys can tell. He definitely didn't have to go through Roger Federer Andy Murray Berdych Delpo or most other good grass players so it was a bit easier path.
 

CoolCoolCool

Hall of Fame
Was it mental ? Maybe. But if he did then I don't understand why. At most I would imagine it was because he was getting used to being number 1. He had spent years as number 3, and then everyone came for him. Andy Murray, Roger Federer, Rafa Nadal. Especially Murray and Nadal.

Also 2011 was astronomical numbers. Vs pretty strong field. He could have been a 2 slam champion in 2011. He got a bit lucky. So 2012 when he didn't get lucky and played Federer in Wimbledon was going to be a bit worse.

2013 Nole definitely got no excuses as he was beaten by Nadal who was playing better than 2011 and Murray who out of nowhere just beat Nole. 2013 was maybe a step down from 2011. But not 2012.

And 2014, he was playing well in 2014 but in Melbourne he was starting partnership with Boris who laid groundwork for his offensive game.

2014 USOpen was the worst loss in his peak. There are no excuses. Nole wasn't fit enough.

So 2011 and 2012 he played at roughly the same level. 2013 he was just a little bit worse and 2014 overall was much worse than 2011.
In 2012, he let Murdal take him to 5 on his own turf. Granted the AO was much slower that year, but I can't see 2011 Djoker needing 5 sets and 4 hours to take down Murray at AO of all slams. Then he lost his grandpa a few months later, which probably didn't help because he was apparently close to him. In 2013, losing to Rafa at RG despite being so close to victory probably scarred him mentally, that had to hurt a lot. He wasn't sure he'd ever get another chance like that.

2014 is the most bizarre one, but the fact he lost to Nishikori of all people is a pretty good indication that the problem wasn't simply the competition.

People tend to forget there was a time when Djoker lacked hunger compared to Fedal. Although he was always mentally very strong when it came to holding his nerve and not choking in big moments, he didn't have the same drive and tended to give up more easily. Not that he wasn't motivated, of course, far from it, but he was below them in that department. That changed as he got older, especially after his resurgence in 2018.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
In 2012, he let Murdal take him to 5 on his own turf. Granted the AO was much slower that year, but I can't see 2011 Djoker needing 5 sets and 4 hours to take down Murray at AO of all slams. Then he lost his grandpa a few months later, which probably didn't help because he was apparently close to him. In 2013, losing to Rafa at RG despite being so close to victory probably scarred him mentally, that had to hurt a lot. He wasn't sure he'd ever get another chance like that.

2014 is the most bizarre one, but the fact he lost to Nishikori of all people is a pretty good indication that the problem wasn't simply the competition.

People tend to forget there was a time when Djoker lacked hunger compared to Fedal. Although he was always mentally very strong when it came to holding his nerve and not choking in big moments, he didn't have the same drive and tended to give up more easily. Not that he wasn't motivated, of course, far from it, but he was below them in that department. That changed as he got older, especially after his resurgence in 2018.
2012 I don't agree. Murray became physically fitter in Melbourne and still lost. If he lost then there is no point discussing. Vs Federer he was always 50/50 at Wimbledon, even in 2014. And 2019. Only in 2015 he was ever the most favorite.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
2012 I don't agree. Murray became physically fitter in Melbourne and still lost. If he lost then there is no point discussing. Vs Federer he was always 50/50 at Wimbledon, even in 2014. And 2019. Only in 2015 he was ever the most favorite.
Blaming Djokovic for loss in 2012 is like blaming Borg for loss in 1981? I think 2012 draw for Nole was much harder than 2011 draw. Basically Djokovic would need to go through both Federer and Murray in 2012 vs tsonga and Nadal in 2011.

Tsonga is worse than Murray
Nadal is worse than Federer.

Still Nole should have focused on beating Federer in Wimbledon. But Andy Murray in 2013, Nole has no excuses. He needed Boris Becker to get the mental edge back.
 

NYTennisfan

Hall of Fame
Djokovic started to decline in 2011, same as Fed declined since 2008 after he was beaten by Nadal at Wimbledon, and Rafa himself declined since 2009, after he was beaten by Söderling at RG.
Anyways, the tour is so full of mugs that almost nobody ever noticed it.
Uh, that was arguably the strongest era in tennis history. In addition to The Big 3 at or close to their prime, you had peak Murray and Stan, DelPo, Tsonga, Berdych, Monfils, Cilic, Ferrer, etc. A lot of these guys were "mugs" due to running up against not 1, not 2 but 3 ATGs and two Hall of Famers in Murray and Wawrinka.

Djokovic didn't decline much after 2011, it's just that he was playing at an All Time Great level in 2011 so it's virtually impossible to maintain that insane level for very long. Same with Federer after 2008, Nadal after 2010 etc. All 3 were still in incredible form outside of some of the injured years, they were set such a high bar in peak years that it was impossible to maintain such perfect form.
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
If Djokovic had Becker as his coach from 2010 onwards then 2012-2014 would have looked very different. Never the less Nole peaked again in 2015 and that level was good enough to beat his 2011 year, everything in tennis is not directly proportional to speed and power, 1% decline in youthful energyt with 30% improvement in skills is still better. Maybe you stop getting better as you start to tough 30, thats it.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
If Djokovic had Becker as his coach from 2010 onwards then 2012-2014 would have looked very different. Never the less Nole peaked again in 2015 and that level was good enough to beat his 2011 year, everything in tennis is not directly proportional to speed and power, 1% decline in youthful energyt with 30% improvement in skills is still better. Maybe you stop getting better as you start to tough 30, thats it.
Yes but not at the same rate for all.

Djokovic at 35 moves better than anyone at 35. And Djokovic at 35 moves almost as good as most players at 25. Then what we are left with is stamina and skills. Djokovic stamina is reducing by every passing week but skills are improving. His net rushing, dropshots and fearhands are welcome addition in older days.
 

Megafanoftennis100

Professional
Uh, that was arguably the strongest era in tennis history. In addition to The Big 3 at or close to their prime, you had peak Murray and Stan, DelPo, Tsonga, Berdych, Monfils, Cilic, Ferrer, etc. A lot of these guys were "mugs" due to running up against not 1, not 2 but 3 ATGs and two Hall of Famers in Murray and Wawrinka.

Djokovic didn't decline much after 2011, it's just that he was playing at an All Time Great level in 2011 so it's virtually impossible to maintain that insane level for very long. Same with Federer after 2008, Nadal after 2010 etc. All 3 were still in incredible form outside of some of the injured years, they were set such a high bar in peak years that it was impossible to maintain such perfect form.
Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing it.
So in which year do you think that the strongest era of tennis ended? For me, I think it ended in 2016. But what about you?
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
Yes but not at the same rate for all.

Djokovic at 35 moves better than anyone at 35. And Djokovic at 35 moves almost as good as most players at 25. Then what we are left with is stamina and skills. Djokovic stamina is reducing by every passing week but skills are improving. His net rushing, dropshots and fearhands are welcome addition in older days.

Durability is Djokovic's strength and Skill is Federer's, at 35-36 Federer was making the whole tour look like second grade or maybe even third grade clowns. Some of his performances were so good. Miami, Shanghai, IW Fed was towering over everyone including Nadal that year.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
If Djokovic had Becker as his coach from 2010 onwards then 2012-2014 would have looked very different. Never the less Nole peaked again in 2015 and that level was good enough to beat his 2011 year, everything in tennis is not directly proportional to speed and power, 1% decline in youthful energyt with 30% improvement in skills is still better. Maybe you stop getting better as you start to tough 30, thats it.
He peaked again because his competition declined quite a bit, especially Nadal and Federer, despite playing at a high level, he was also not the same as previous years.
As I always say, context matters A LOT.
:D
 
Wait, you are not saying that 2011 Fed would have beaten 2011 Djokovic at Wimbledon, are you? 2011 Djokovic >> 2011 Federer on grass. Djokovic convincingly beat Tsonga in the semis, whereas Federer lost to Tsonga. So 2011 Djokovic definitely scales above 2011 Federer on grass.
Tsonga played well but was lucky to win that match. After that 2011 RG SF, Djoko would not have wanted to play Federer on grass. I
 

steamie

New User
I actually think the 12-14 period of Djokovic's might arguably be the most disappointing of his career considering that, the way I see it anyways, he didn't gear his evolution as a player towards the right direction. From what I gather (I didn't follow tennis too closely, just sporadically during the 12-14 years and I'm going mostly off footage I've seen after the fact), during the 12-14 years it seems Djokovic opted to trade in assertiveness, aggression, power, and killer bite in his game, and instead opted too deep towards a counter punching, neutral, "pusher" profile of a player, but he often seems toothless to my eyes during those years as a result, and I consider that a disappointment because to me at least, his potential as a player is much much higher than what he and his team opted towards during that time.

My favorite footage of Djokovic might actually be some of the stuff seen during chunks of his 2008 and 2009 years. To me, the 2011 season is likely his greatest because it's arguably the season where he best balanced that 2008-2009 aggression with that cerebral consistency, determination, endurance, and clutch-ness he's become so legendary for.



Just off of those clips you can see Djokovic could actually be as aggressive and heavy hitting as a Thiem or Alcaraz if he wanted to, his forehand motion looked beautifully ferocious, and this was despite him being as thin as a noodle and probably not having his racquet geared out to prioritize power in the first place. Even in his 2011 season he wasn't that explosive.

Even then though he still had problems hitting heavy enough of a ball if he didn't have the right amount of time, angle, and if the ball was low. Low balls have always seemed awkward for Djokovic, especially off the forehand wing. I would have thought someone as talented as he is would have met that challenge better throughout his career.

To me THE blue print was to get that 2008 Djokovic that could seem like the perfect player off of both wings at times and magnify him, iron out his forehand deficiencies, literally become the perfectly balanced attacking baseliner who could also defend like no one else could all at the same time. More or less what he became in 2011.

Djokovic went on to iron out most of the deficiencies he had as a younger player but in the process generally lost that younger, more aggressive version of himself altogether in the years immediately after 2011 imo.

Then in 15-16 it's clear he hit more of the bullseye of what he was aiming for during 12-14, but there was always still something missing there with the weight of the ball generally imo.

The best of Djokovic, when he really has looked like the GOAT pound for pound, has always been when he's played more akin to the type of player I described in light purple up there.

Whether it be against Nadal AO 12, Ferrer AO 13, Nadal MC 13, Nadal Doha 16, Federer AO 16, Nadal AO 19, etc, post 2011 he's been at his best when he's combined the more surgical version of himself with a stronger weight to his ball.

But even then, there's something to that Djokovic of 2007/2008-2011 that has only sometimes risen up to the surface during the years, and they make me ask what could have been if he had decided to be generally more stronger, attacking and aggressive throughout his career.

Which is why the AO 23 version of Djokovic might be my favorite actually.

There are times I watch Djokovic footage during 12-14, and his whole career really, where it looks like he couldn't generate more power even if he wanted to. I don't get it. Where does that lacking come from? With a little more of that disposition from his earlier years I don't think he loses against Wawrinka all those times in the slams, for example, and I think he wins 1 or 2 more of his FO finals against Nadal.
 
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DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
I actually think the 12-14 period of Djokovic's might arguably be the most disappointing of his career considering that, the way I see it anyways, he didn't gear his evolution as a player towards the right direction. From what I gather (I didn't follow tennis too closely, just sporadically during the 12-14 years and I'm going mostly off footage I've seen after the fact), during the 12-14 years it seems Djokovic opted to trade in assertiveness, aggression, power, and killer bite in his game, and instead opted too deep towards a counter punching, neutral, "pusher" profile of a player, but he often seems toothless to my eyes during those years as a result, and I consider that a disappointment because to me at least, his potential as a player is much much higher than what he and his team opted towards during that time.

My favorite footage of Djokovic might actually be some of the stuff seen during chunks of his 2008 and 2009 years. To me, the 2011 season is likely his greatest because it's arguably the season where he best balanced that 2008-2009 aggression with that cerebral consistency, determination, endurance, and clutch-ness he's become so legendary for.



Just off of those clips you can see Djokovic could actually be as aggressive and heavy hitting as a Thiem or Alcaraz if he wanted to, his forehand motion looked beautifully ferocious, and this was despite him being as thin as a noodle and probably not having his racquet geared out to prioritize power in the first place. Even in his 2011 season he wasn't that explosive.

Even then though he still had problems hitting heavy enough of a ball if he didn't have the right amount of time, angle, and if the ball was low. Low balls have always seemed awkward for Djokovic, especially off the forehand wing. I would have thought someone as talented as he is would have met that challenge better throughout his career.

To me THE blue print was to get that 2008 Djokovic that could seem like the perfect player off of both wings at times and magnify him, iron out his forehand deficiencies, literally become the perfectly balanced attacking baseliner who could also defend like no one else could all at the same time. More or less what he became in 2011.

Djokovic went on to iron out most of the deficiencies he had as a younger player but in the process generally lost that younger, more aggressive version of himself altogether in the years immediately after 2011 imo.

Then in 15-16 it's clear he hit more of the bullseye of what he was aiming for during 12-14, but there was always still something missing there with the weight of the ball generally imo.

The best of Djokovic, when he really has looked like the GOAT pound for pound, has always been when he's played more akin to the type of player I described in light purple up there.

Whether it be against Nadal AO 12, Ferrer AO 13, Nadal MC 13, Nadal Doha 16, Federer AO 16, Nadal AO 19, etc, post 2011 he's been at his best when he's combined the more surgical version of himself with a stronger weight to his ball.

But even then, there's something to that Djokovic of 2007/2008-2011 that has only sometimes risen up to the surface during the years, and they make me ask what could have been if he had decided to be generally more stronger, attacking and aggressive throughout his career.

Which is why the AO 23 version of Djokovic might be my favorite actually.

There are times I watch Djokovic footage during 12-14, and his whole career really, where it looks like he couldn't generate more power even if he wanted to. I don't get it. Where does that lacking come from? With a little more of that disposition from his earlier years I don't think he loses against Wawrinka all those times in the slams, for example, and I think he wins 1 or 2 more of his FO finals against Nadal.
No, Djokovic needed the two worst versions of Nadal at Roland Garros (by far) to have a chance of defeating him, how it happened in 2015 and 2021.
About the finals that you mention:
The first rain break saved him from being defeated in straight sets in 2012, in 2013 Nadal should have defeated him in four sets but he choked at a moment when he had it under control and in 2014, even the set the Serbian player won was controversial, since the Spanish player was robbed of a break ball that should have been in his favor.
It is quite striking that fans love to revisit the facts to create scenarios in which, in parallel worlds, their idols are unbeatable.
:D
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic started to decline in 2011, same as Fed declined since 2008 after he was beaten by Nadal at Wimbledon, and Rafa himself declined since 2009, after he was beaten by Söderling at RG.
Anyways, the tour is so full of mugs that almost nobody ever noticed it.
Well, that statement is much more reliable than ever after what happened in the season that ended.
:(
 
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