In the most important match of the year, SAMPRAS is KING

Blocker

Professional
Every sport has its one-off event which is considered the holy grail event for that sport, the blue ribbon event so to speak. Soccer has the world cup, cycling has the Tour De France, etc etc. These are the events players in their chosen field want to win above everything else. In tennis, that event is Wimbledon.

Wimbledon is the most important tennis event in the world. So it goes without saying, Wimbledon Centre Court is the most important court in the world and the mens’ final at Wimbledon is the single most important tennis match at Wimbledon, and therefore, the single most important match of the year. If there is one single match in tennis which signifies greatness, it is the Wimbledon final.

Now I can only go by facts, but once in the mens’ final at Wimbledon, Sampras was unbeatable. 7 from 7 (100%). Only Federer (7 from 8 = 87.5%) and Borg (5 from 6 = 83.33%) come close to matching Sampras in this, the most important tennis match of the year. But both still fall short. Now before someone decides to mention Cash or Krajicek who are both 1 from 1, obviously I’m talking about players who made the most important match of the year a number of times. I’m excluding Bill Tilden because he pretty much played the challenge round only.

Now some of you will no doubt point to the fact that Federer made one extra final or that Sampras lost to Krajicek when he was at his peak, but here is what I have to say to that.

1) Sampras was always suspect in the first week and a bit of Wimbledon. All the top players were. Because, and this is directed to alot of you jonny come latelies, believe it or not, Wimbledon once had draws which were littered with floaters, where any player outside of the top 100 could beat anyone in the draw. That’s right, tennis was not always about one generic boring as **** game style with homogenised courts and a top 4 which made the semis of 90 per cent of all slams. Believe it or not, all the top players back in the day talked about surviving the first week because the depth on grass was so much deeper. But the bottom line is, once Sampras got 5 matches under his belt, once he was in the groove, once he was full steam ahead, he was unbeatable in the most important match of the year. He never lost a semi final or the final, the most important match of the year. He met 5 different players, all with different game styles, and beat them all. If I had to put my life in the hands of one player in one match in any era, it would be Sampras in the Wimbledon final. And I include in that match-up any player as his opponent, be it Nadal, Federer, Murray, Roddick, Laver, Tilden, Borg, McEnroe, Connors, Wilander, Lendl, Becker, Edberg, Agassi, Stich, Cash, Ivanisevic, Krajicek, take your pick. Quite simply, Sampras is the king of the most important match of the year and he wiped/would have wiped them all in the final. Nadal in the FO final would be a very very very close second, but with Nadal, he’s pretty much only beaten his bunny Federer in the final and a couple of others. Plus, as I said before, Wimbledon is Wimbledon, the pressure is just so much more than the FO. That’s why I would put my life in Sampras/WF ahead of Nadal/FOF.

2) Yes, Federer has made an extra final, but you would think that after beating Nadal in the 2 previous finals, the second one being very fortunate for him, he would have beaten him again. You would think that after having 6 matches under his belt, him being this era’s Wimbledon great, he would have beaten Nadal. But no, Nadal figured him out in the most important match of the year. Unlike Sampras, he was beatable. And therein lies the difference, Sampras never got figured out in the most important match of the year. If Sampras had made 8 finals, he would have won them all. Heck, if Sampras made 10 finals, he would have won them all. But as I said, he and the other top players were always a bit suspect pre the semis so he didn’t always make it. But once there, in the biggest match of the year, he was superman. He was undefeated….in the biggest match of the year.

Mods, please close this thread now because there is no argument to my OP and I suspect the trolls and *******s will be out in force to troll my OP when quite frankly it is not a trollable piece.
 
1. Federer won as many "most important matches" as Sampras did.

2. Federer beat Sampras at the "biggest stage in the world of Tennis".


Thread fail.
 

-RF-

Hall of Fame
goat-vs-electric-fence.jpg
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Now I can only go by facts, but once in the mens’ final at Wimbledon, Sampras was unbeatable. 7 from 7 (100%). Only Federer (7 from 8 = 87.5%)....
This is where your post loses its veneer of coherence.

Sampras didn't play 7 Wimbledons. He played 14. He won half of them.

Federer has, so far, played 17 and also won half of them.

If you're trying to make a credible, persuasive point you can't just wish away poor results because they don't suit your argument.
 
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helloworld

Hall of Fame
This is where your post loses all intelligence.

Sampras didn't play 7 Wimbledons. He played 14. He won half of them.

Federer has, so far, played 17 and also won half of them.

If you're trying to make a credible, persuasive point you can't just wish away poor results because they don't suit your argument.

You should read again. He said once Sampras reached the finals, he was unbeatable, not how many attempts he had in his career.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
You should read again. He said once Sampras reached the finals, he was unbeatable, not how many attempts he had in his career.
My point stands. Saying it's about once he reached the finals bears about as much relevance as saying a head-to-head should count in the ranking system.

Using a selective, finite set of available results to demonstrate a point is the domain of kooks. A player's finals winning percentage is actually irrelevant in demonstrating greatness - as the examples of Cash and Krajicek show*. The amount of wins matters. If someone took 20 attempts to achieve a win their definitive achievement is the same as someone who took one attempt to win.

(*notwithstanding that neither 1 nor 7 are statistically relevant sample sizes in the real world)
 
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Warmaster

Hall of Fame
2013 promises to be a gruesome battle between Sampras 'fans' and the NSK legion, fighting valiantly over the coveted 'Troll of the year' award. Stay tuned!
 

pringles

Semi-Pro
This is why Sampras never lost a Wimbledon final:
-the grass was fast so he didn't have to play from the baseline near as much as the current players have to
-he never played anyone improving that much every year
-he never played anyone with a lefty forehand like Nadal - Sampras would absolutely hate playing Nadal on EVERY surface
-he never played anyone who was such a bad match-up for him (Ivanisevic was lefty but he didn't have a high-kicking forehand and played flat most of the time, not to mention he was a consistent choker)
-he never had mental issues against another player because he never bothered to show up anywhere unless he was playing well. Heck, he never bothered to show up on clay AT ALL, let alone be beaten 3 times every year on the surface prior to Wimbledon.
-he never played an excellent grass courter that wouldn't wilt under the pressure all the time (see Ivanisevic, Rafter, Agassi - as good as they were they choked in big points. Something Nadal (and Djokvoic) would NEVER do
-he never played a good grass courter who was at least 5 years younger than he was (apart Philippoussiss in one match in 1999 where Mark had to retire after taking the first set in emphatic fashion)
-when Sampras felt below par he just didn't make the final. Period. (See 1996 when he got routined by Krajicek). Something that would never happen to Federer who in or out of form was routinely making every final.
-he often received gifts like facing Cedric Pioline in one of those finals or someone ranked 250 in a Wimbledon semi-final, Federer out of the 8 finals only played Nadal, Roddick, Murray and Philippoussis (someone Peteta**s would consider tough) once.
 
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This is where your post loses its veneer of coherence.

Sampras didn't play 7 Wimbledons. He played 14. He won half of them.

Federer has, so far, played 17 and also won half of them.

If you're trying to make a credible, persuasive point you can't just wish away poor results because they don't suit your argument.

Say what?

:-?
 

underground

G.O.A.T.
1. Federer actually beat Sampras himself in Wimbledon 2001, when Sampras was still the defending champion.
2. Federer did make 1 extra final, it's a valid point and I don't see why OP is neglecting it. It means that Federer has 55 matches at Wimbledon in 8 years while Sampras only won 53 in 8 years.
3. Federer managed to win Wimbledon based on S&V (2003) and baseline game.
4. Federer has managed to win Wimbledon 10 years after his 1st, Sampras doesn't have this longevity.
 
Come on guys, give the Samprastards a break. Sampras is completely irrelevant now, but his ardent fans are still people, they still want to feel like they exist. Let's take it easy on them and give them a hug instead of throwing the truth in their face.
 

Gizo

Hall of Fame
Federer's record in grand slam finals away from clay is 16-3 (84.2%), while Sampras's was 14-4 (77.8%).

On clay, if Sampras was to play in a big RG final or semi against Bruguera for instance (who was a difficult match-up for him even on hard courts), I doubt he would have been anywhere near as clutch as he was in a big Wimbledon match against Ivanisevic or US Open match against Agassi. It's easier for players to be mental giants at tournaments and on surfaces where they are comfortable. It's much more difficult to be mentally clutch at settings which don't suit their game so much.

Also I will never understand the argument that a 7-0 record in Wimbledon finals is better than a 7-1 one. LOL as if Federer's Wimbledon record would have been enhanced had he lost his 2008 semi against Safin for instance and not reached Nadal.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Also I will never understand the argument that a 7-0 record in Wimbledon finals is better than a 7-1 one. LOL as if Federer's Wimbledon record would have been enhanced had he lost his 2008 semi against Safin for instance and not reached Nadal.
Exactly... When we look at non slam winning players we give more kudos to players who've been in a slam final (Tsonga or Berdych) relative to those who haven't (Ferrer etc)...because making a slam final is a partial achievement in-itself.

But when comparing people who have won many of them their losing final showings apparently diminish the value of the wins they did achieve in the eyes of Samprastards. 7 wins and 7 finals is not as successful as 7 wins and 8 finals in tennis. The final winning percentages don't matter unless you're trying to show something else like clutchness or how easy an era was and lots of other similarly subjective topics.
 

Onehandedbackhand

Professional
Pete Sampras is a top five consideration for GOAT simply for Wimbledon, and the US Open, but he's not anywhere near the GOAT.

To me it's

1. Rod Laver - Nuff said
2. Roger Federer - Seems to break a record a week since his 28th birthday, and some of those will never be broken again.

3. Bjorn Borg - His dominance on clay, and his success at Wimbledon for just ten years on tour, is sick.

4. Rafael Nadal - 11 Grand Slams, one loss in the French Open ever.

5. Pete Sampras - 7 for 7 in Wimby finals, and the US Open speaks for itself.

Then I have Connors and McEnroe under him.

Much as I liked him in his time, and as much as I have him at #5, I look, in hindsight, at Pete as someone who was really the product of his surface. Tremendous serve, wonderful backhand, great forehand, but I feel like the changed surfaces would clobber him now, and in this era, Roger would eat him for lunch. Fed can play on anything, as can Rafa. Both of them can have an off day serving and still have no trouble with an opponent. When Pete had his first and second round troubles, it usually was his serve, along with the aforementioned depth in the tournament, that caused his problems. He HAD to have his serve on to dominate anyone.

Maybe that's why when I do watch older tennis, I can watch Borg forever, McEnroe forever, Connors forever, Vitas forever, and even Becker, Lendl, and Agassi forever...but I can't really watch a ton of Sampras anymore. It feels like when you are a kid, and you had that favorite show, and you get older and go back to it and wonder how stupid you had to be for liking that stuff. Liking Pete isn't stupid, nor was he a schlub player, but he's definitely not what history makes him, IMO.
 

Blocker

Professional
I reiterate my OP, once Sampras got 5 matches under his belt at Wimbledon, he never lost.

Conclusion:

Federer better in the early rounds.
Sampras better in the final.
 

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
This is where your post loses its veneer of coherence.

Sampras didn't play 7 Wimbledons. He played 14. He won half of them.

Federer has, so far, played 17 and also won half of them.

If you're trying to make a credible, persuasive point you can't just wish away poor results because they don't suit your argument.

Bobby Jr, 7 is the half of 17? This must be new mathematics...
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Federer played 14 Wimbledons and won 7 with a 66-7 record.

Sampras played 14 Wimbledons and won 7 with a 63-7 record.

Overall slight edge to Federer.

It would be interesting to check out some other Wimbledon champions like Newcombe, Agassi, Becker, Edberg to see their records overall.
 
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TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
I reiterate my OP, once Sampras got 5 matches under his belt at Wimbledon, he never lost.

Conclusion:

Federer better in the early rounds.
Sampras better in the final.

But Fed went beyond the QF 8 times while Sampras only 7, so Fed still has more wins than Sampras AFTER the QF. Again, edge to Fed. I know it's difficult to cherry pick stat that favors Sampras, but keep trying.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Some Wimbledon stats

Won-lost records of some great players at Wimbledon
Rosewall-47-11
Stan Smith-45-17
John McEnroe-59-11
Jimmy Connors-84-18
Lew Hoad 32-7
Rod Laver-50-7
John Newcombe-45-10
Henri Cochet-43-8
Bill Tilden-31-3
Jean Borotra-55-10
Don Budge-24-2
Ellsworth Vines-13-1
Frank Sedgman-26-6
Stefan Edberg-49-12
Boris Becker-71-12
Arthur Ashe-35-11
Fred Perry-36-5
 
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I reiterate my OP, once Sampras got 5 matches under his belt at Wimbledon, he never lost.

Conclusion:

Federer better in the early rounds.
Sampras better in the final.

Oh, more desperate revisions from the petetards! :lol: Sampras did lose in the semifinal once :) Fail thread, and fail post. Try again
 
Won-lost records of some great players at Wimbledon
Rosewall-47-11
Stan Smith-45-17
John McEnroe-59-11
Jimmy Connors-84-18
Lew Hoad 32-7
Rod Laver-50-7
John Newcombe-45-10
Henri Cochet-43-8
Bill Tilden-31-3
Jean Borotra-55-10
Don Budge-24-2
Ellsworth Vines-13-1
Frank Sedgman-26-6
Stefan Edberg-49-12
Boris Becker-71-12
Arthur Ashe-35-11
Fred Perry-36-5

In short, Federer has the best record at Wimbledon, the most prestigious tournament in the world, of all time.
 

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
Every sport has its one-off event which is considered the holy grail event for that sport, the blue ribbon event so to speak. Soccer has the world cup, cycling has the Tour De France, etc etc. These are the events players in their chosen field want to win above everything else. In tennis, that event is Wimbledon.

Wimbledon is the most important tennis event in the world. So it goes without saying, Wimbledon Centre Court is the most important court in the world and the mens’ final at Wimbledon is the single most important tennis match at Wimbledon, and therefore, the single most important match of the year. If there is one single match in tennis which signifies greatness, it is the Wimbledon final.

Now I can only go by facts, but once in the mens’ final at Wimbledon, Sampras was unbeatable. 7 from 7 (100%). Only Federer (7 from 8 = 87.5%) and Borg (5 from 6 = 83.33%) come close to matching Sampras in this, the most important tennis match of the year. But both still fall short. Now before someone decides to mention Cash or Krajicek who are both 1 from 1, obviously I’m talking about players who made the most important match of the year a number of times. I’m excluding Bill Tilden because he pretty much played the challenge round only.

Now some of you will no doubt point to the fact that Federer made one extra final or that Sampras lost to Krajicek when he was at his peak, but here is what I have to say to that.

1) Sampras was always suspect in the first week and a bit of Wimbledon. All the top players were. Because, and this is directed to alot of you jonny come latelies, believe it or not, Wimbledon once had draws which were littered with floaters, where any player outside of the top 100 could beat anyone in the draw. That’s right, tennis was not always about one generic boring as **** game style with homogenised courts and a top 4 which made the semis of 90 per cent of all slams. Believe it or not, all the top players back in the day talked about surviving the first week because the depth on grass was so much deeper. But the bottom line is, once Sampras got 5 matches under his belt, once he was in the groove, once he was full steam ahead, he was unbeatable in the most important match of the year. He never lost a semi final or the final, the most important match of the year. He met 5 different players, all with different game styles, and beat them all. If I had to put my life in the hands of one player in one match in any era, it would be Sampras in the Wimbledon final. And I include in that match-up any player as his opponent, be it Nadal, Federer, Murray, Roddick, Laver, Tilden, Borg, McEnroe, Connors, Wilander, Lendl, Becker, Edberg, Agassi, Stich, Cash, Ivanisevic, Krajicek, take your pick. Quite simply, Sampras is the king of the most important match of the year and he wiped/would have wiped them all in the final. Nadal in the FO final would be a very very very close second, but with Nadal, he’s pretty much only beaten his bunny Federer in the final and a couple of others. Plus, as I said before, Wimbledon is Wimbledon, the pressure is just so much more than the FO. That’s why I would put my life in Sampras/WF ahead of Nadal/FOF.

2) Yes, Federer has made an extra final, but you would think that after beating Nadal in the 2 previous finals, the second one being very fortunate for him, he would have beaten him again. You would think that after having 6 matches under his belt, him being this era’s Wimbledon great, he would have beaten Nadal. But no, Nadal figured him out in the most important match of the year. Unlike Sampras, he was beatable. And therein lies the difference, Sampras never got figured out in the most important match of the year. If Sampras had made 8 finals, he would have won them all. Heck, if Sampras made 10 finals, he would have won them all. But as I said, he and the other top players were always a bit suspect pre the semis so he didn’t always make it. But once there, in the biggest match of the year, he was superman. He was undefeated….in the biggest match of the year.

Mods, please close this thread now because there is no argument to my OP and I suspect the trolls and *******s will be out in force to troll my OP when quite frankly it is not a trollable piece.
How dare you hint, imply, or even suggest that anyone--anyone has ever done anything better than God Federer.

You should cut out your own tongue, then commit suicide to rid our planet of your vile and lowly corpus.

Such sacrilege!
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
How dare you hint, imply, or even suggest that anyone--anyone has ever done anything better than God Federer.

You should cut out your own tongue, then commit suicide to rid our planet of your vile and lowly corpus.

Such sacrilege!

Oh please, that guy deifies Sampras to the same (heck maybe even higher) degree the worst of Fed fans do for Fed.

He's allowed to say what he wants, won't change my mind that making an extra final is better even if it "tarnishes" your 100% final record and I'm sure the majority of tennis pros would agree with me on the issue ( for extra prize money if nothing else).

Fed would not be a better player in my eyes if he for example lost his 2008 Wimbledon SF to Safin, sorry I find that logic to be downright hilarious.
 

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
Oh please, that guy deifies Sampras to the same (heck maybe even higher) degree the worst of Fed fans do for Fed.

He's allowed to say what he wants, won't change my mind that making an extra final is better even if it "tarnishes" your 100% final record and I'm sure the majority of tennis pros would agree with me on the issue ( for extra prize money if nothing else).

Fed would not be a better player in my eyes if he for example lost his 2008 Wimbledon SF to Safin, sorry I find that logic to be downright hilarious.
I'm glad you appreciate my facetiousness.
 

Mick3391

Professional
Every sport has its one-off event which is considered the holy grail event for that sport, the blue ribbon event so to speak. Soccer has the world cup, cycling has the Tour De France, etc etc. These are the events players in their chosen field want to win above everything else. In tennis, that event is Wimbledon.

Wimbledon is the most important tennis event in the world. So it goes without saying, Wimbledon Centre Court is the most important court in the world and the mens’ final at Wimbledon is the single most important tennis match at Wimbledon, and therefore, the single most important match of the year. If there is one single match in tennis which signifies greatness, it is the Wimbledon final.

Now I can only go by facts, but once in the mens’ final at Wimbledon, Sampras was unbeatable. 7 from 7 (100%). Only Federer (7 from 8 = 87.5%) and Borg (5 from 6 = 83.33%) come close to matching Sampras in this, the most important tennis match of the year. But both still fall short. Now before someone decides to mention Cash or Krajicek who are both 1 from 1, obviously I’m talking about players who made the most important match of the year a number of times. I’m excluding Bill Tilden because he pretty much played the challenge round only.

Now some of you will no doubt point to the fact that Federer made one extra final or that Sampras lost to Krajicek when he was at his peak, but here is what I have to say to that.

1) Sampras was always suspect in the first week and a bit of Wimbledon. All the top players were. Because, and this is directed to alot of you jonny come latelies, believe it or not, Wimbledon once had draws which were littered with floaters, where any player outside of the top 100 could beat anyone in the draw. That’s right, tennis was not always about one generic boring as **** game style with homogenised courts and a top 4 which made the semis of 90 per cent of all slams. Believe it or not, all the top players back in the day talked about surviving the first week because the depth on grass was so much deeper. But the bottom line is, once Sampras got 5 matches under his belt, once he was in the groove, once he was full steam ahead, he was unbeatable in the most important match of the year. He never lost a semi final or the final, the most important match of the year. He met 5 different players, all with different game styles, and beat them all. If I had to put my life in the hands of one player in one match in any era, it would be Sampras in the Wimbledon final. And I include in that match-up any player as his opponent, be it Nadal, Federer, Murray, Roddick, Laver, Tilden, Borg, McEnroe, Connors, Wilander, Lendl, Becker, Edberg, Agassi, Stich, Cash, Ivanisevic, Krajicek, take your pick. Quite simply, Sampras is the king of the most important match of the year and he wiped/would have wiped them all in the final. Nadal in the FO final would be a very very very close second, but with Nadal, he’s pretty much only beaten his bunny Federer in the final and a couple of others. Plus, as I said before, Wimbledon is Wimbledon, the pressure is just so much more than the FO. That’s why I would put my life in Sampras/WF ahead of Nadal/FOF.

2) Yes, Federer has made an extra final, but you would think that after beating Nadal in the 2 previous finals, the second one being very fortunate for him, he would have beaten him again. You would think that after having 6 matches under his belt, him being this era’s Wimbledon great, he would have beaten Nadal. But no, Nadal figured him out in the most important match of the year. Unlike Sampras, he was beatable. And therein lies the difference, Sampras never got figured out in the most important match of the year. If Sampras had made 8 finals, he would have won them all. Heck, if Sampras made 10 finals, he would have won them all. But as I said, he and the other top players were always a bit suspect pre the semis so he didn’t always make it. But once there, in the biggest match of the year, he was superman. He was undefeated….in the biggest match of the year.

Mods, please close this thread now because there is no argument to my OP and I suspect the trolls and *******s will be out in force to troll my OP when quite frankly it is not a trollable piece.

If Fed played on the same fast Wimby as Sampras enjoyed, he'd have even more titles.
 

killerboi2

Hall of Fame
Sampras said he felt unbeatable in his prime and with 7 wimbledon finals and 7 wins i guess he has a point. I think the *******s are somewhat scared of Sampras, so they try and sort of push him to one side when it comes to goat discussion.

I mean they are happy to include Borg and Nadal in the discussion because they know Federer has too much over them. Sampras however matched Federer's wimbledon count and i think that scares the ****s a little.
 

Tagg

New User
sampras had to adapt his game to the grass courts

he was all big serve and big groundstrokes when he started, classic hard court player

however, once he had adapted his game, he looked like a complete natural, effortless on the grass courts

unfortunately for sampras, the things that made him dominant on grass, hard and indoors were the things that didn't work on clay

it's a catch 20 situation. be good on one 1 surface, bad on 3 (e.g 90s spanish clay courters)? be good on 3, bad on 1?

surface homogenization has played a major part in federer's dominance. there's no doubt that sped up clay courts and slowed down grass courts have helped him

yes, slowed down grass courts (and slowed down hard courts) helped federer. it made him less prone to upsets by a big serve or hard hitter, and allowed him the time to turn defense in offense

nowadays, with the footwork fading (faded?), he is losing to these big hitters, such as tsonga and berdych

now, tsonga and berdych would not win a wimbledon in the 90s; lets be clear about that

as for the sped up clay, look at RG 09. combine the faster clay with nadal's absence, and that was federer's lottery ticket for his RG title, which he took

and he still nearly managed to mess that one up, particularly against accauso and haas

i have watched sampras and federer at wimbledon and have seen all their title runs

unlike some on this board, i suspect

and it's like this

federer is the better all round player, sampras is the better grass court player

indoors, it's sampras. on clay, it's federer.

hard courts, that is the toss up match

finally, there's no doubt that sampras is above nadal and borg if you're talking about a GOAT

if nadal reaches 13 slams, then you can start making comparisons with sampras. but seeing as he's missed the last 2 slams, looks unlikely
 

fed_rulz

Hall of Fame
Sampras said he felt unbeatable in his prime and with 7 wimbledon finals and 7 wins i guess he has a point. I think the *******s are somewhat scared of Sampras, so they try and sort of push him to one side when it comes to goat discussion.

I mean they are happy to include Borg and Nadal in the discussion because they know Federer has too much over them. Sampras however matched Federer's wimbledon count and i think that scares the ****s a little.

1. this thread was started by a butt-hurt Petetard
2. Sampras didn't match Federer's wimbledon count; Federer matched Pete's and ended all discussion about who's the grass court king, and ergo this thread.
3. Federer may have too much over Nadal and Borg, but they do have a few things over him as well. Sampras has EXACTLY one record over federer (YE #1, but his is diluted because he does not own the # weeks record any more... ), and Federer has tons over Sampras. In short, Sampras is irrelevant to the GOAT discussions.
 

fed_rulz

Hall of Fame
sampras had to adapt his game to the grass courts

he was all big serve and big groundstrokes when he started, classic hard court player

however, once he had adapted his game, he looked like a complete natural, effortless on the grass courts

unfortunately for sampras, the things that made him dominant on grass, hard and indoors were the things that didn't work on clay

it's a catch 20 situation. be good on one 1 surface, bad on 3 (e.g 90s spanish clay courters)? be good on 3, bad on 1?

surface homogenization has played a major part in federer's dominance. there's no doubt that sped up clay courts and slowed down grass courts have helped him

yes, slowed down grass courts (and slowed down hard courts) helped federer. it made him less prone to upsets by a big serve or hard hitter, and allowed him the time to turn defense in offense

nowadays, with the footwork fading (faded?), he is losing to these big hitters, such as tsonga and berdych

now, tsonga and berdych would not win a wimbledon in the 90s; lets be clear about that

as for the sped up clay, look at RG 09. combine the faster clay with nadal's absence, and that was federer's lottery ticket for his RG title, which he took

and he still nearly managed to mess that one up, particularly against accauso and haas

i have watched sampras and federer at wimbledon and have seen all their title runs

unlike some on this board, i suspect

and it's like this

federer is the better all round player, sampras is the better grass court player

indoors, it's sampras. on clay, it's federer.

hard courts, that is the toss up match

finally, there's no doubt that sampras is above nadal and borg if you're talking about a GOAT

if nadal reaches 13 slams, then you can start making comparisons with sampras. but seeing as he's missed the last 2 slams, looks unlikely

So it's ok to compare Sampras with Federer, despite the 3-slam gap, but not ok to compare Sampras and Nadal? Typical Petetard garbage, i suppose.

There is no empirical evidence to suggest Sampras as the better grass court player (no, Petetard nostalgia does not count). ALL stats favor Federer (#titles, # finals, more dominant wins -- fewer games, sets lost etc.), and top it all, in their only meeting on grass (wimbledon, no less), Federer got the better of him (please don't start with the "past his prime" Pete crap -- apparently, Sampras thinks age should not be a factor in the Nadal vs Federer discussions, so I guess the same holds good for him too).

Face it: Federer is the better grass, hard and clay court player, than Sampras, and has evidence to back it up. Carpet is not a surface anymore, so there is lack of data. In short, Federer > Sampras everywhere, and any debate surrounding is purely due to the inability of Pete-worshippers to accept that their hero has been relegated to 2nd place in the most important metrics in tennis.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
i have watched sampras and federer at wimbledon and have seen all their title runs

unlike some on this board, i suspect

and it's like this

federer is the better all round player, sampras is the better grass court player

indoors, it's sampras. on clay, it's federer.

hard courts, that is the toss up match

yeah, except on slow HC, there is no way you could argue its a tossup :

federer from 2004-2012 only lost to peak safin, peak djoker and peak nadal @ the AO ....

sampras OTOH in a similar time frame lost to players like scud, kucera, todd martin there ....

and I think federer is better on fast HC, grass, indoors ( not a lot of difference there though )

finally, there's no doubt that sampras is above nadal and borg if you're talking about a GOAT

actually no, you *could* argue that borg is better than sampras given his dominance over polar opposites - clay & grass and that he was far better on his worst surface - fast HC than sampras on his - clay

nadal, if he wins 2 more slams ( with one of them being a non-RG one ) would be up there .....
 
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